RAIL - Back On Track Forum

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Time to rethink this project.  400m+ is a complete and utter insulting waste.  Rail over road with rebuilt station, open space link underneath and potentially the relinking of Musgrave Rd instead of three ugly suburb destroying ramps.   

By what mates have told me, Coopers Plains station is already at the top of a hill, not sure whether it could be made in to rail over road (if road level stays the same) without the gradients becoming too steep/approaches being far too long.

Quote from: JimmyP on May 17, 2022, 19:33:03 PMBy what mates have told me, Coopers Plains station is already at the top of a hill, not sure whether it could be made in to rail over road (if road level stays the same) without the gradients becoming too steep/approaches being far too long.

There should be plenty of distance.  Let's assume we use a gradient a maximum of 2 degrees (i.e. 2m per 100m). FYI CRR has 3 degrees.

Distance from a raised Coopers Plains station (rail at say 30m - ground is at 20m) to just south of interstate junction (@ 9m) is 1200m. 24m of height can be gained at 2 degrees over that distance.  From 9m plus the 24m = 33m) Only need 21 to get to the 30m level. or 1.75 degrees.  Banoon Station is already at 30m so level from there to Cooper Plains

PS 600m from same point south of the interstate junction to Musgrave Rd (at 11m) so plenty of height (21m or 10m above road at 11m) .

Happy for my math and levels to be checked/confirmed!

Can we please have a bus interchange done with the works?

https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/projects/boundary-road-coopers-plains-rail-level-crossing-funding-commitment

The design options make provisions for the existing rail lines to be upgraded in the future to 4 rail lines.

Boundary Road (Coopers Plains), rail level crossing (Option 1)



Transcript

Opening screen – Option 1 – east west overpass, showing aerial view of new design. The design is a road over rail bridge starting from Rosedale Street to the west, passing over the rail line and Orange Grove Road and rejoining the existing road near Babbidge Street to the west.

Flythrough moves to show a close up of the Coopers Plains Evangelical Church looking towards the overpass, showing the access point for Breton Street to Orange Grove Road and the rail line from ground level.

Screen shows possible parkland at base of overpass and moves to a bird's eye view of Henley Street to the left and Boundary Road looking towards Sunnybank.

Flythrough shows a location aerial view – to Sunnybank at left of screen and to Archerfield at right of screen including the connection under Boundary Road for Orange Grove Road and Breton Street.

The screen shows how to access Breton Street from Orange Grove Road under the new overpass. There is also a new service road running adjacent to the overpass from Breton Road towards Babbidge Street.

The flythrough moves to a drive through view across the new Boundary Road overpass towards Archerfield, passing Babbidge Street on left, crossing the Breton/Orange Grove Road connection, the rail line, Henley Street and Rosedale Street on the right and finishing at the Halt Street/Lensworth Street existing intersection with a new left slip lane and intersection widening.

The video then moves from the Babbidge Street end of the new overpass to show a 360-degree birds eye view flying over the rail line, Rosedale Street, Halt Street and looking back towards Sunnybank before moving back to look towards the city and Archerfield.

Closing screen showing Australian and Queensland governments coat of arms and the department's webpage link – tmr.qld.gov.au.



Boundary Road (Coopers Plains), rail level crossing (Option 2)



Transcript

Opening screen – Option 2 – Three-way elevated intersection, showing aerial view of new design. The design is a road over rail bridge starting from Rosedale Street to the west, passing over the rail line and showing a new elevated intersection for Boundary Road and Orange Grove Road and rejoining the existing road near Babbidge Street to the west.

Flythrough moves to show a close up of the Coopers Plains Evangelical Church looking towards the overpass, showing the rail line from ground level.

Then there is a birds eye view of the overpass and new intersection showing Sunnybank top left, Henley Street, Rosedale Street and Halt Street to the bottom right of the screen.

Screen shows possible parkland at base of overpass and moves to a birds eye view of Henley Street to the left and Boundary Road looking towards Sunnybank.

Flythrough shows a location aerial view of the new three-way intersection looking west.  Babbidge Street to left, Orange Grove Road centre and Halt street to the right.

The flythrough moves to a drive through accessing the new Boundary Road overpass from the new Orange Grove Road three-way intersection including traffic lights and a left-hand slip lane towards Sunnybank.

The screen moves to a drive through view across the new Boundary Road overpass towards Archerfield, passing Babbidge Street on left, following the new service road on the left, passing over the new Orange Grove Road three-way intersection, over the rail line, Henley Street and Rosedale Street on the right and finishing at the Halt Street/Lensworth Street existing intersection with new left slip lane and intersection widening.

The video then moves from the Babbidge Street end of the new overpass to show a 360-degree birds eye view flying over the new Orange Grove Road three-way intersection, showing Beenleigh Road on the western side of the overpass, Joyce Street, the rail line, Rosedale Street, Halt Street and looking back towards Sunnybank before moving back to look towards the city and Archerfield.

Closing screen showing Australian and Queensland governments coat of arms and the department's webpage link – tmr.qld.gov.au.

It is clear to me that TMR et al have determined that road over rail is their solution.

But this points to the larger issue.  A roads obsessed  outfit will view a level crossing removal from a roads point of view.

What we need in Queensland is an authority/agency similar to the Level Crossings Removal Project ( https://levelcrossings.vic.gov.au ) of Victoria.  They are not primarily roads focussed but are able to see a more global view and can drive suitable solutions for various situations.  In Queensland they seem to default to road over rail, which may not always be the optimal solution.

Queensland should setup a Level Crossing Removal Agency, as per the Victorian model.  They should tap into the expertise that Victoria has now gained with LX removal.  They are probably the worlds most experienced outfit.  Folly to not learn from them.

I suggest writing to metropolitanregion@tmr.qld.gov.au the contact email on https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/projects/boundary-road-coopers-plains-rail-level-crossing-funding-commitment

if you are concerned with the road over rail options.

Quote from: Jonno on May 17, 2022, 20:27:07 PMThere should be plenty of distance.  Let's assume we use a gradient a maximum of 2 degrees (i.e. 2m per 100m). FYI CRR has 3 degrees.

Distance from a raised Coopers Plains station (rail at say 30m - ground is at 20m) to just south of interstate junction (@ 9m) is 1200m. 24m of height can be gained at 2 degrees over that distance.  From 9m plus the 24m = 33m) Only need 21 to get to the 30m level. or 1.75 degrees.  Banoon Station is already at 30m so level from there to Cooper Plains

PS 600m from same point south of the interstate junction to Musgrave Rd (at 11m) so plenty of height (21m or 10m above road at 11m) .

Happy for my math and levels to be checked/confirmed!

2 degrees isn't quite the same as 2% (2m per 100m)

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amp/slope-degrees-gradient-grade-d_1562.html

2 degrees will actually buy you 3.5m per 100m. But best to check what units your CRR reference uses.

Your back of the envelope calc also assumes the current alignment is level. If we're talking an elevation gain, and the alignment is already at say 1.5%, then there would only be 0.5% additional gradient available. (So a 24m elevation gain would need 4.8km to ramp up)

Perhaps I've misinterpreted your figures. Food for thought anyway.

Doh! I meant % not degrees. No engineer here!

My approach was the track starts at contour 9m and Cooper's Plains station is currently at contour 20m.  Elevated rail line needs to be at say 30m.  I therefore need to go from 9m to 30m which is 21m over 1200m which is 1.5%.  I think in your example above I only need the 10m above the current gradient not 24m. Hope I make sense.

Forgot to reply to your post Jonno, but thanks! I was certainly going off what I had seen and been told about the lay of the land, so wasn't sure how much of an issue it would be.