RAIL - Back On Track Forum

More on the SEQ City Deal from 7 News

https://twitter.com/7NewsBrisbane/status/1505820640787705856

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Quote from: verbatim9 on March 21, 2022, 18:23:58 PMMore on the SEQ City Deal from 7 News

https://twitter.com/7NewsBrisbane/status/1505820640787705856

"RAIL Back on Track has labeled the plan under-whelming"

I find some elements of the deal exciting. People have been discussing and calling for an inline station at the Gabba on this forum for a while.

We just need to put in a submission to ensure they get the design of this station right.

Future funding will no doubt come for the extension of rail projects from Springfield to Ipswich and from Varsity Lakes to OOL and from Beerwah to Caloundra. I am hoping for as well as many others for them to start on the Toowoomba line, at least to Helidon.

QuotePeople have been discussing and calling for an inline station at the Gabba on this forum for a while.

An inline station? The only reason why the busway operates during peak hour is because there is no inline station holding buses up as half the buses are diverted to the Captain Cook Bridge for capacity purposes (they could not be handled if all buses were sent to Cultural Centre).

An inline station would cause bus conflicts as buses pull out of the platforms, disruption the one bus every 10-12 seconds that flows through the area.

We really need to get to the bottom of what this expensive station is.

Quote from: #Metro on March 21, 2022, 19:21:22 PM

QuotePeople have been discussing and calling for an inline station at the Gabba on this forum for a while.

An inline station? The only reason why the busway operates during peak hour is because there is no inline station holding buses up as half the buses are diverted to the Captain Cook Bridge

There will be less buses using the busway once the award winning Metro starts.

QuoteThere will be less buses using the busway once the award winning Metro starts.

How can this have an award already given that it doesn't yet exist and it's actual performance hasn't been 'ground-truthed' in service? 

It's satire because of the label the Brisbane City Council was giving it. It's not at all award winning. I believe the award was given to the design of the depot, but council ran with that and used that term award winning at every media opportunity.

Quote from: #Metro on March 21, 2022, 19:21:22 PM

QuotePeople have been discussing and calling for an inline station at the Gabba on this forum for a while.

An inline station? The only reason why the busway operates during peak hour is because there is no inline station holding buses up as half the buses are diverted to the Captain Cook Bridge for capacity purposes (they could not be handled if all buses were sent to Cultural Centre).

An inline station would cause bus conflicts as buses pull out of the platforms, disruption the one bus every 10-12 seconds that flows through the area.

What are you talking about? There are hardly any routes from the south that turn right to Gabba station, if any. Putting Gabba station in-line instead of as a spur would not proclude buses from the south getting on the CCB via that off ramp next to the Morrison

QuoteWhat are you talking about?

Precisely. I want to see a map. An official one.

If it is a move to an in-line station it is clearly a better outcome in network terms.  I expect there would still be a degree of clash between inbound and outbound services because anything entering the Gabba station from surface routes still needs to cross over routes already on the busway by Buranda, whether before or after the Gabba station.

Quote from: SurfRail on March 21, 2022, 20:43:22 PMIf it is a move to an in-line station it is clearly a better outcome in network terms.  I expect there would still be a degree of clash between inbound and outbound services because anything entering the Gabba station from surface routes still needs to cross over routes already on the busway by Buranda, whether before or after the Gabba station.

Which there is today even before Metro network changes!

Couriermail --> Brisbane's $450m bus stop: So many unanswered questions $

QuoteIt's the "final signature piece" linking the public to the Gabba for the 2032 Olympic Games but our politicians can't say why it will cost so much, when it will open or even what it will look like.

The $450m bus stop at the centre of the South East Queensland City Deal is the "final signature piece" linking the public to the Gabba for the 2032 Olympics, but politicians still can't say why it will cost so much, when it will open, or what it would look like.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk, along with mayors of the South East, signed off on the $1.8bn City Deal on Monday – cheering on their "great teamwork", despite three years of bitter negotiations it took to get it off the ground. ...

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1505922717198938113

Media Release

SEQ City Deal Information Request - $450 million bus station at Woolloongabba

22nd March 2022

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has asked for more detail around the $450 million bus station at Woolloongabba contained within the SEQ City Deal announced today.

RAIL Back On Track requests a briefing on the location and design of the station and an explanation of the high costs. Also the web address where information can be found. In particular, our members would like to know why the current Woolloongabba busway station is not sufficient, and whether this station will be an improvement of the current station, a relocation of the station to be in-line with the SE Busway, or a completely new station, possibly underground. The proposed cost for this one bus station - $450 million - is absolutely enormous and represents 25% of the SEQ City Deal funding for the entire SEQ region. Indeed, its per-km costs are comparable to the construction of a tunnelled automated rail-based subway system.

In addition, we also request detailed information about the M3 Line of the 'Brisbane Metro' BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) bus line. We have no information about this, only information about Lines 1 and Lines 2, and therefore ask that information about the route origin, service frequency, vehicles used, number of vehicles to be in service or expected, and terminus of this service are provided to our members.

RAIL Back On Track supports project proposals on merit. We are not against the provision of expensive infrastructure, provided that commensurately high benefits to the community are also demonstrated. We look forward to being properly briefed on the Woolloongabba Station and M3 'Brisbane Metro' BRT line in a timely manner.

References

1. City Deal to Transform South East Queensland
https://www.pm.gov.au/media/city-deal-transform-south-east-queensland
"Key projects in the City Deal include:

$450 million for the Gabba Brisbane Metro Station, to deliver enhanced transport connections and support the 2032 Brisbane Olympic and Paralympic Games;"

2. Gabba funding hurdle cleared for Olympic stadium
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/gabba-funding-hurdle-cleared-for-olympic-stadium-20220321-p5a6i0.html

"There, the metro will link with the state government's self-funded Cross River Rail and service the stadium and surrounding areas.
When queried about the hefty price tag, Mr Morrison said the metro station would be a "complex" project.
"Projects are different and they are defined by the needs and the planning of the future in those cities," he said."

3. Brisbane's $450m bus stop: So many unanswered questions
https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/brisbanes-450m-bus-stop-so-many-unanswered-questions/news-story/12a8d3b056b3ae08514f9b651aa4a401

Contact:
Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

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https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1505965214860120065

Western Sydney City Deal

https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/fletcher/media-release/western-sydney-city-deal-setting-foundations-connected-sustainable-city

QuoteQuotes attributable to the Minister for Communications, Urban Infrastructure, Cities and the Arts, the Hon Paul Fletcher MP:

"The Western Sydney City Deal is an $11 billion commitment from all levels of government to deliver vital community infrastructure and enhance liveability through the vision of the Western Parkland City, which will help to generate 200,000 new jobs.

"Three years into the 20-year deal and already significant process has been made towards realising the vision of Western Sydney being a highly connected, sustainable and liveable region for generations to come.

"These achievements build on the Morrison Government's $5.3 billion investment in the Western Sydney International Airport, which will be a driver for economic activity and growth in the region."

The Queensland Government, the Council of Mayors (SEQ) done like dinner!

  got that lurkers!   

ABC News --> See what the South East Queensland City Deal will deliver to your region and how much will be spent

What a joke of a final deal. Very excited for the 2032 World Class traffic jams

Quote from: SteelPan on March 21, 2022, 14:32:53 PM  I just don't take any of these politicans/govt people people seriously anymore - some I never did, nor will!

This a total and utter load of unimpressive, con job rubbish!

It not only mocks the people in its lack of anything, but shows how they have spent years, debating NOTHING!

Again, we need to focus on getting a properly empowered and resourced SEQ Public Transit Authority established!

Until that is achieved, little of substance will ever be delivered.

The announcements of today takes us all, for utter mugs!

 

Quote from: AOB on March 22, 2022, 10:32:34 AMWhat a joke of a final deal. Very excited for the 2032 World Class traffic jams

    Yes, miserable joke sadly.

The wetland got priority over CAMCOS 

Is someone snooping our threads?

https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?msg=255135

Currently there are nine signed City Deals (signed - term - amount) with:
Launceston (Apr 2017 - 10 years - $65m)
Darwin (Nov 2018 - 10 years - $244m)
Geelong (Mar 2019 - 10 years - $320m)
Adelaide (Mar 2019 - 10 years - $574m)
Townsville (Jun 2016 - 15 years - $688m)
Hobart (Feb 2019 - 10 years - $892m)
Perth (Sep 2020 - 10 years - $1.204b)
South East Queensland (Mar 2022 – 20 years - $1.788b)
Western Sydney (Mar 2018 - 20 years - $10.25b)

I read the Hobart City Deal.

Hobart has possibly the worst bus network in Australia, and the worst PT that I have experienced. 

Amazing that straight-forward and obvious solutions are just not recognised and grasped as viable or possible.

There is a clear need for either a BRT or LRT line-haul system in Hobart.  

They have even got a nice ex-rail ROW where it could run, avoiding most of the major ROW land acquisition costs.

Is it funded? No way!

Whole heap of road upgrades and smart digital technology to reduce congestion by packing more cars into a finite space faster...

SEQ City Deal looks a lot better compared to what Hobart got!

Please don't post stuff that is already in this thread. 

Unnecessary posts will be removed.

Someone wise said with respect to City Deals ..

" The City Deals are a farce.
Particularly the ones that bundle together a bunch of existing programs to make another 'announceable'.
The classic first principle of modern government, confusing activity with achievement & public relations with policy. "

I think that sums it up ! 

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1506279873094258695

Both the Roma St and Cultural Centre bus stations were going to re done and put underground.

Those changes were dropped.  We cannot trust the Queensland Government, BCC nor TMR.

Why are there no details of the 'Gabba bus station?  Another temporary thought bubble.

Got that  ?  Good ...

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1506282673047752712

Further correspondence:

Re: SEQ City Deal Information Request - $450 million bus station at Woolloongabba

23rd March 2022

Good Morning,

No response.  It is hard to imagine that a $450 million bus stop has not had some preliminary studies, or otherwise how could the cost of $450 million be determined?

There is a very unhealthy culture of secrecy and bumbling in Queensland when it comes public transport.

To be honest, until public transport is dragged out of the various silos of under-performance and brought together in one single authority, e.g. Public Transport Queensland, we anticipate more ongoing mediocre outcomes.

Have a look at the Public Transport Authority WA ( https://www.pta.wa.gov.au ) if you want to see how it should be one.

Yours in not much hope,

Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Quote from: ozbob on March 22, 2022, 02:04:40 AMMedia Release

SEQ City Deal Information Request - $450 million bus station at Woolloongabba

22nd March 2022

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has asked for more detail around the $450 million bus station at Woolloongabba contained within the SEQ City Deal announced today.

RAIL Back On Track requests a briefing on the location and design of the station and an explanation of the high costs. Also the web address where information can be found. In particular, our members would like to know why the current Woolloongabba busway station is not sufficient, and whether this station will be an improvement of the current station, a relocation of the station to be in-line with the SE Busway, or a completely new station, possibly underground. The proposed cost for this one bus station - $450 million - is absolutely enormous and represents 25% of the SEQ City Deal funding for the entire SEQ region. Indeed, its per-km costs are comparable to the construction of a tunnelled automated rail-based subway system.

In addition, we also request detailed information about the M3 Line of the 'Brisbane Metro' BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) bus line. We have no information about this, only information about Lines 1 and Lines 2, and therefore ask that information about the route origin, service frequency, vehicles used, number of vehicles to be in service or expected, and terminus of this service are provided to our members.

RAIL Back On Track supports project proposals on merit. We are not against the provision of expensive infrastructure, provided that commensurately high benefits to the community are also demonstrated. We look forward to being properly briefed on the Woolloongabba Station and M3 'Brisbane Metro' BRT line in a timely manner.

References

1. City Deal to Transform South East Queensland
https://www.pm.gov.au/media/city-deal-transform-south-east-queensland
"Key projects in the City Deal include:

$450 million for the Gabba Brisbane Metro Station, to deliver enhanced transport connections and support the 2032 Brisbane Olympic and Paralympic Games;"

2. Gabba funding hurdle cleared for Olympic stadium
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/gabba-funding-hurdle-cleared-for-olympic-stadium-20220321-p5a6i0.html

"There, the metro will link with the state government's self-funded Cross River Rail and service the stadium and surrounding areas.
When queried about the hefty price tag, Mr Morrison said the metro station would be a "complex" project.
"Projects are different and they are defined by the needs and the planning of the future in those cities," he said."

3. Brisbane's $450m bus stop: So many unanswered questions
https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/brisbanes-450m-bus-stop-so-many-unanswered-questions/news-story/12a8d3b056b3ae08514f9b651aa4a401

Contact:
Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

ABC News --> South-east Queensland City Deal has 'not a lot' for public transport in Logan, Ipswich, Moreton Bay

QuoteThe long-awaited south-east Queensland City Deal primarily funded existing public transport projects leaving Logan, Ipswich and Moreton Bay still facing major transport hurdles, one expert says.

Key points:

The $1.8 billion SEQ City Deal offered little new funding for regional public transport

Weekday commuters remain the focus of most public transport funding

Experts say things must change to get people out of cars

The $1.8 billion City Deal announced last week listed a host of projects to be delivered by the federal, state and local governments, targeting infrastructure, liveability and connectivity.

One new announcement was $450 million for a Brisbane Metro station at Woolloongabba, detouring the $1.2 billion Metro to connect with the Gabba Cross River Rail station.

Other major transport projects were already funded, such as a business case for Toowoomba-to-Brisbane passenger rail, and a $190 million green bridge in the Brisbane CBD.

$10 million will fund an Ipswich-to-Springfield Public Transport Corridor options analysis, welcomed by Ipswich Mayor Teresa Harding, who in August said there was an "urgent need" for the public transport connection between the cities.

But that was nearly all the City Deal funding for public transport links between Brisbane and fast-growing regional centres.

Griffith University Yunus Centre urban and social planning expert Laurel Johnson said much of the City Deal transport funding was focused on Brisbane, not the regions.

"Most of the items in the City Deal agreement are already in place, they're already progressed. So, in some ways, it's a bit retrospective," Dr Johnson said. ....

Page 3 today's Courier Mail not online

12th November 2022 page 3

BUS PLAN BUDGET HIT FOR SIX BY GABBA

QuoteTHE $450m bus interchange at the centre of South East Queensland's City Deal will require expensive land acquisitions near the Gabba and "quite extensive" underground works, Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner has revealed.

Mr Schrinner, speaking on Friday at a Property Council panel discussion on the SEQ City Deal, provided the first details on the expensive infrastructure centrepiece since the 20-year pipeline of projects was announced in March.

The $450m interchange, connecting Brisbane Metro to the Cross River Rail in the Gabba area, is one of the most expensive anchor projects of Australia's eight City Deals – eclipsing the initial $250m put toward the North Queensland stadium. Mr Schrinner confirmed the multimillion-dollar price tag was in part due to land acquisitions required, extensive tunnelling work for the underground interchange and the need to shift the current bus parking area.

"It's a major underground Metro station effectively and ... there is property acquisitions that need to happen as well ... There's no cheap property left in the Gabba area unfortunately," he said. It is understood acquiring land will hit the project's budget significantly, with speculation of purchases around the $70m mark. The exact parcels have not been finalised.

The SEQ City Deal was reached after three years of at-times bitter negotiations between the state and former federal government. It involved a $1.8bn pipeline of projects, with the new federal government making no changes to the nearly $400m funding pot set aside. But Deputy Premier and Planning Minister Steven Miles, who was also on the panel discussion, said he expected the new government to "put their own stamp" on how parts of the project were implemented. Mr Schrinner said the City Deal had "passed its first test" – surviving a change of government.

More hope than reality ... lots of hope!!

This project is high risk. If the cost blows out due to labour shortages, high inflation and various other surprises that might appear in the next 10 years, it is a problem.

Although it is true that there is no cheap land in the Gabba, they might just have to offset that by rezoning it after they have done the acquisitions so that the land can be developed more intensively, and that can offset the cost of the station.

Its a good place for a proper TOD.

Brisbanetimes --> Resumptions, rezoning to make Brisbane more reliant on public transport

QuoteProperties will be resumed at Woolloongabba for the underground Metro busway station set to complement the Cross River Rail station and transform Brisbane's inner south.

About $70 million has been set aside for resumptions, on sites yet to be determined, near the Gabba stadium being promoted as the city's 2032 Olympic Games centrepiece. ...

I truly don't understand why massive land resumption is needed?  Having a lay over in the inner city is just more CBD centric thinking/social engineering!!

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1621149571614388226


Short summary.  They don't really have much of an idea in the end ...

One thing is obvious though, unless they turn the tide on public transport we be all rooted, well and truly.

Some may think we are already at that point. 

Quote from: ozbob on February 03, 2023, 00:15:21 AMhttps://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1621149571614388226


Short summary.  They don't really have much of an idea in the end ...

One thing is obvious though, unless they turn the tide on public transport we be all rooted, well and truly.

Some may think we are already at that point. 

This is only a problem if they continue with the car-dependent planning and infrastructure!!!

Brisbanetimes --> SEQ planning failures cause headaches for fast-growing region

Anyone surprised? 

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https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1625853382039834624

Surprised??? I was SHOCKED to see the words South East Qld and Planning used in the same story!   

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/consumer-affairs/almost-13-000ha-earmarked-for-future-housing-in-south-east-queensland-20230216-p5cl5z.html