Should the remaining paper single tickets be removed?

[ozbob]

Do you support the removal of the remaining single paper tickets?

If this was done improved availability of go cards, eg. on buses, would be needed.

Also assume topups on bus not on busway ... busways have AVVMs.

[somebody]

So long as availability on buses and top ups on BT buses are sorted.

[Jonas Jade]

So long as availability on buses and top ups on BT buses are sorted.

Agreed.

[Mr X]

I voted no (other).
Plenty of times (like recently) where I'd be stranded without my go card (which was recently stolen). You can't assume that 100% of people have one.

I will only support getting rid of paper tickets if go cards are sold on every bus, train station and ferry terminal in the whole of SEQ or if there is something in place for people who temporarily don't have one.

30% premium on paper ticket fares gives people an incentive to switch to go card.

[#Metro]

I voted yes.

The whole idea of introducing a smart card was to GET RID OF PAPER ONCE AND FOR ALL not have 2 systems do the 1 job
or keep paper tickets around as some kind of decoration.

CUT!!

They can sell pre-paid cards on board the buses.
$10 and $20
If you forget - buy a card.

A surcharge can apply to on-board top ups if that's whats needed to encourage people to top up elsewhere rather than hold the bus up.

[SurfRail]

It should be a relatively simple matter.  Go cards are already sold on board ferries, and the first generation AVVMs can be upgraded over time to dispense adult go cards.  Bus drivers can just be issued a stack of pre-charged go cards for sale at a round amount like TT has suggested.  Pre-pay would apply in the CBD and at busway stations/bus interchanges like it does in Sydney (on the basis you just get your card or do your top-up from the machine or the nearest 7/11 - probably no need to extend this after say 8pm as there is no significant time imperative).

One major advantage we do have over Perth is that you can already top up your card from any ticket machine - it would not involve too much effort to upgrade them to actually dispense them as the busway ones do.

[Fares_Fair]

I voted no (other).
Plenty of times (like recently) where I'd be stranded without my go card (which was recently stolen). You can't assume that 100% of people have one.

I will only support getting rid of paper tickets if go cards are sold on every bus, train station and ferry terminal in the whole of SEQ or if there is something in place for people who temporarily don't have one.

30% premium on paper ticket fares gives people an incentive to switch to go card.

IMHO, that should be a no vote, with your explanation as you have noted.

[Mr X]

Well I originally did vote no but decided that it was more an "other" as I'm not really against getting rid of the paper ticket system.
I'd like to see us get away from paper tickets but there really should be something in place (be it paper tickets at a premium or go cards which can be purchased onboard) for those who aren't near a retailer and don't currently have a go card.

[Fares_Fair]

Well I originally did vote no but decided that it was more an "other" as I'm not really against getting rid of the paper ticket system.
I'd like to see us get away from paper tickets but there really should be something in place (be it paper tickets at a premium or go cards which can be purchased onboard) for those who aren't near a retailer and don't currently have a go card.

I think that just makes your vote a yes ??   

[somebody]

Perhaps there could be an option for "Yes, if go card sales/top ups on buses is made available" option.

[ozbob]

Perhaps there could be an option for "Yes, if go card sales/top ups on buses is made available" option.

Assume that is the case ..

[somebody]

No, unless the card is free and any unused credit can be quickly refunded at the same place you buy.

The card is already free with a $5 refundable deposit.  I don't think buses should have to process refunds.

[colinw]

Emphatic yes.  To understand why, you only have to see the effect on any suburban bus run when more people than usual decide to buy paper tickets.

[somebody]

How many people do a single one direction trip?  A return trip would be the minimum, most likely on the Airtrain which may or may not keep its separate tickets.  Even if it doesn't, it isn't a huge ask to have to process a refund on your return.  I can't imagine it takes too long.

[somebody]

How many people do a single one direction trip?  A return trip would be the minimum, most likely on the Airtrain which may or may not keep its separate tickets.  Even if it doesn't, it isn't a huge ask to have to process a refund on your return.  I can't imagine it takes too long.

For Airtrain I would imagine there are few one way trips.

Can you claim back your unused credit at the same time? And claiming back, another waste of time and not much good if the station is unmanned when you make your last trip or in a hurry.

I think its absolute stupidity to expect an irregular user, especially vistors to Brisbane, be they intrastate, interstate or OS to be forced to buy a Go-Card and then at the end of the single trip or even end of return trip go through the stuffing around to get back their $5. Doesn't matter if its for 1 person or 10,000 people, common and common sense practice OS is that you can rock up and buy a single (disposalable) ticket.

Go-card technology is a great system, but its not for everyone including the odd user in Brisbane.

regards
Shane

So the whole system slows down because a few luddites refuse to use Go Cards, just to convenience the odd tourist.  They can suck it up in the interest of the system as a whole.

[Fares_Fair]

How many people do a single one direction trip?  A return trip would be the minimum, most likely on the Airtrain which may or may not keep its separate tickets.  Even if it doesn't, it isn't a huge ask to have to process a refund on your return.  I can't imagine it takes too long.

For Airtrain I would imagine there are few one way trips.

Can you claim back your unused credit at the same time? And claiming back, another waste of time and not much good if the station is unmanned when you make your last trip or in a hurry.

I think its absolute stupidity to expect an irregular user, especially vistors to Brisbane, be they intrastate, interstate or OS to be forced to buy a Go-Card and then at the end of the single trip or even end of return trip go through the stuffing around to get back their $5. Doesn't matter if its for 1 person or 10,000 people, common and common sense practice OS is that you can rock up and buy a single (disposalable) ticket.

Go-card technology is a great system, but its not for everyone including the odd user in Brisbane.

regards
Shane

So the whole system slows down because a few luddites refuse to use Go Cards, just to convenience the odd tourist.  They can suck it up in the interest of the system as a whole.

lol
As you would certainly know, tourism contributes a significant amount to the State's economy.
rtt's rationale is perfectly legitimate and has a sound basis.

[somebody]

Can you claim back your unused credit at the same time? And claiming back, another waste of time and not much good if the station is unmanned when you make your last trip or in a hurry.

Yes.

Unlikely to be an unmanned station at the Airport, which is the most likely place such a thing would be processed.  Interstate buses don't exactly leave from Holmview either!  Normally Roma St although I imagine pick ups at other locations.

As you would certainly know, tourism contributes a significant amount to the State's economy.

Are you suggesting that it might change because they would be forced to buy a Go Card?  More likely that they would be annoyed by high cash fares.  Removing the option reduces that effect.

I think its absolute stupidity to expect an irregular user, especially vistors to Brisbane, be they intrastate, interstate or OS to be forced to buy a Go-Card and then at the end of the single trip or even end of return trip go through the stuffing around to get back their $5

I think what is absolute stupidity is to still have 20% or so of people still using paper.

[Fares_Fair]

Can you claim back your unused credit at the same time? And claiming back, another waste of time and not much good if the station is unmanned when you make your last trip or in a hurry.

Yes.

Unlikely to be an unmanned station at the Airport, which is the most likely place such a thing would be processed.  Interstate buses don't exactly leave from Holmview either!  Normally Roma St although I imagine pick ups at other locations.

As you would certainly know, tourism contributes a significant amount to the State's economy.

Are you suggesting that it might change because they would be forced to buy a Go Card?  More likely that they would be annoyed by high cash fares.  Removing the option reduces that effect.

I think its absolute stupidity to expect an irregular user, especially vistors to Brisbane, be they intrastate, interstate or OS to be forced to buy a Go-Card and then at the end of the single trip or even end of return trip go through the stuffing around to get back their $5

I think what is absolute stupidity is to still have 20% or so of people still using paper.

Yes, removing high cash fares (to equal Go card) would reduce that effect.

Last time I checked it was still a free country, and that includes choice - not dictation by authorities.

[somebody]

Last time I checked it was still a free country, and that includes choice - not dictation by authorities.

That is a stupid argument.

Commuters really want to "choose" if they have to pay or not.

[Gazza]

Tourism huh?

Airlines have undergone some pretty rapid changes. First it was no more paper tickets issued, you have to print your own. In then became that you print your own boarding pass. Now with Qantas its now such that you put your own bag on the conveyer belt.

Tourists are able to deal with all that, yet getting a go card upon arrival is beyond them?



People make it sound as if tourists are poor helpless individuals. Yet when they go to London they all buy an Oyster Card because it's known that's what you do.
If you can't deal with a cashless system when you encounter it, you are clearly disorganised.

If Brisbane went cash only I guarantee you it would be fine. The cashless nature of our PT system would be printed in guidebooks, just like the way our toll roads are known to be cashless.

And yeah, the "choice" argument is BS. The only reason people hang onto paper is because it's what they have always done. There's nothing actually inherently good about paper tickets, in themselves.

[#Metro]

KILL PAPER!

If everyone had their way, we'd still have the punch card system - UGH!

CUT!!

[somebody]

http://video.couriermail.com.au/2208783860/Sunshine-express-test-Coast-route

Sunshine express test Coast route

ELECTION COVERAGE: Trent Dalton tests out the Sunshine Coast's public transport system.

Removing paper would prevent statements like the one at the end of this video, that it costs $20.40 from Sunshine Plaza the city.  $14.02 with a go card.

[#Metro]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but sunshine coast and gold coast are SO FAR - did you see the bus run through open fields in the video? - $14 is probably not too bad.

Heck, going to manly from Circular Quay in Sydney cost $21 bucks! MyRipoff!

I'd rather the Sunshine Coast video have some kind of trip on  a dancing train... much more interesting!

[somebody]

$7 is the usual cash single fare CQ-Manly.  Equivalent to 4 zones paper.
$56 Travel Ten is roughly equivalent to 5 zones go card.

[ozbob]

Media release 1 April 2012

SEQ: Paper tickets - it is time to scrap them!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport calls for the next government to scrap the remaining single paper tickets.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"TransLink's own research shows that less 20% of people still use paper tickets (1). The price of the single paper tickets is now extremely high relative to go card fares and we recommend that passengers use Go Card wherever possible (2). Not only do they pay 30 to 40% more for an equivalent journey using paper single tickets, they slow up buses, they miss out on off peak discounts and free travel after completing 10 journeys in the Monday to Sunday period. As was seen at last year's Brisbane Exhibition, the time limitation on paper single tickets caused a paper-ticket-crowd-crush-meltdown, which resulted in the police directing that the fare gates be thrown open!"

"Now, with most passengers using Go Card, we think it is time that the paper ticketing system was shut down. The purpose of electronic ticketing was to ultimately replace the paper ticketing system, not duplicate it (3)."

"RAIL Back On Track members have suggested that if preloaded Go Cards were available on buses and at more outlets such as supermarkets, paper ticketing could be done away with entirely (4). This would allow faster boarding as well."

"Why have two systems to do one job? The time has come to scrap paper ticketing entirely. The savings generated could ploughed back into urgently needed feeder bus services to key rail and bus stations."

References:

1. http://translink.com.au/resources/about-translink/what-we-do/customer-research/100501-public-transport-survey.pdf

2. http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/fares/current-fares

3. Should the remaining paper single tickets be removed? http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7822.0

4. http://translink.com.au/about-translink/business-and-partnership-opportunities/become-a-go-card-retailer

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[BrizCommuter]

Whilst on this subject, here is a public service announcement from BrizCommuter...
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/public-service-announcement.html

Just a shame that very few paper ticket users would read BrizCommuter's blog!

[STB]

Tourism huh?

Airlines have undergone some pretty rapid changes. First it was no more paper tickets issued, you have to print your own. In then became that you print your own boarding pass. Now with Qantas its now such that you put your own bag on the conveyer belt.

Tourists are able to deal with all that, yet getting a go card upon arrival is beyond them?



People make it sound as if tourists are poor helpless individuals. Yet when they go to London they all buy an Oyster Card because it's known that's what you do.
If you can't deal with a cashless system when you encounter it, you are clearly disorganised.

If Brisbane went cash only I guarantee you it would be fine. The cashless nature of our PT system would be printed in guidebooks, just like the way our toll roads are known to be cashless.

And yeah, the "choice" argument is BS. The only reason people hang onto paper is because it's what they have always done. There's nothing actually inherently good about paper tickets, in themselves.

+1 to that.  When I went to Melbourne earlier this year, I had to print my own boarding pass both to/from Melbourne, put my own label on my luggage and take it up for it to be scanned.  And of course, I had to also pick up my luggage from the conveyor belt after the flights.  It wasn't difficult.

As soon as I got to Southern Cross (Spencer St) station, I took my luggage to the hotel, dropped in my room, went back to the station and brought myself a Myki, and topped it up.  I then used it with no problem across the network.  Yes, I am used to the Go Card so the touching on/off is normal for me now, but the infrastructure is visually different, so there is a slight learning curve in using it, but there was plenty of help nearby and within a few minutes I grasped how to use it.

Anyone who uses the 'what about the tourists' argument is just clutching at emotional straws and frankly I find it personally offensive to those who are tourists of which I was one a few months ago.  I'm not stupid, and nor is the majority of the population.  And I am saddened and annoyed to see that there are a couple of members in here who still think that paper tickets are the go.  Also, wake up call to Fares Fair, any business or in this case a Government department has the right to make you pay in whatever form they see fit, in this case in the form of Go Cards.  It's a legitimate form of currency.  I've been to places that only accepts cash, when I usually pay by Eftpos, that's fine, I'll just pull out a $20 note.  I'm sure there are some businesses out there that only accept cards, Internet businesses are an obvious one.  There is nothing wrong with that, they have the right to do that for whatever reason.  Honestly, if some members here had their way, we'd still be living in the days of punch cards, cash only, forget things like EFTPOS for example (which came in the 1980s IIRC).

If you don't like the Go Card, you can stop using public transport as far as I'm concerned.  Go Card users quite rightly get annoyed at paper ticket users now, and those who still advocate paper tickets, and frankly I am sick of those who just simply refuse to switch over.

Spread the network of Go Card availability and just ditch the paper.  Melbourne is doing it (Metcard being the paper equiv), other cities have done it, no reason why we can't!

[somebody]

The only thing which should be sorted before going cashless is selling Go Cards on buses.  Top ups are arguable.

Given that runs like the P216 and P221 +P341 are the only real services in their area and we haven't seen that issue in the media I don't know why it would be thought that people can't adapt to the cashless world.

[STB]

Hence why I said about spreading the network of Go Card availability.  We should be fine going cashless.  As long as things are easily available, there isn't any problem with it.  Heck if you want top ups, just limit them to say $20 across the entire bus and ferry network (trains excepted due to station offices), and set up some basic security measures so the drivers aren't carrying large amounts of cash if they really are worried about getting robbed.

[somebody]

Hence why I said about spreading the network of Go Card availability.  

It shouldn't be targeted at more store type outlets, it needs to be on bus availability.

Once that is sorted, I have no problem with this statement:

If you don't like the Go Card, you can stop using public transport as far as I'm concerned.

[justanotheruser]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but sunshine coast and gold coast are SO FAR - did you see the bus run through open fields in the video? - $14 is probably not too bad.

Heck, going to manly from Circular Quay in Sydney cost $21 bucks! MyRipoff!

I'd rather the Sunshine Coast video have some kind of trip on  a dancing train... much more interesting!

this is a good argument for how things can be confusing for tourists. A person in our group got the fare wrong because they didn't seem to realise they could buy a ferry only ticket.

[justanotheruser]

Tourism huh?

Airlines have undergone some pretty rapid changes. First it was no more paper tickets issued, you have to print your own. In then became that you print your own boarding pass. Now with Qantas its now such that you put your own bag on the conveyer belt.

Tourists are able to deal with all that, yet getting a go card upon arrival is beyond them?



People make it sound as if tourists are poor helpless individuals. Yet when they go to London they all buy an Oyster Card because it's known that's what you do.
If you can't deal with a cashless system when you encounter it, you are clearly disorganised.

If Brisbane went cash only I guarantee you it would be fine. The cashless nature of our PT system would be printed in guidebooks, just like the way our toll roads are known to be cashless.

And yeah, the "choice" argument is BS. The only reason people hang onto paper is because it's what they have always done. There's nothing actually inherently good about paper tickets, in themselves.

+1 to that.  When I went to Melbourne earlier this year, I had to print my own boarding pass both to/from Melbourne, put my own label on my luggage and take it up for it to be scanned.  And of course, I had to also pick up my luggage from the conveyor belt after the flights.  It wasn't difficult.

As soon as I got to Southern Cross (Spencer St) station, I took my luggage to the hotel, dropped in my room, went back to the station and brought myself a Myki, and topped it up.  I then used it with no problem across the network.  Yes, I am used to the Go Card so the touching on/off is normal for me now, but the infrastructure is visually different, so there is a slight learning curve in using it, but there was plenty of help nearby and within a few minutes I grasped how to use it.

Anyone who uses the 'what about the tourists' argument is just clutching at emotional straws and frankly I find it personally offensive to those who are tourists of which I was one a few months ago.  I'm not stupid, and nor is the majority of the population.  And I am saddened and annoyed to see that there are a couple of members in here who still think that paper tickets are the go.  Also, wake up call to Fares Fair, any business or in this case a Government department has the right to make you pay in whatever form they see fit, in this case in the form of Go Cards.  It's a legitimate form of currency.  I've been to places that only accepts cash, when I usually pay by Eftpos, that's fine, I'll just pull out a $20 note.  I'm sure there are some businesses out there that only accept cards, Internet businesses are an obvious one.  There is nothing wrong with that, they have the right to do that for whatever reason.  Honestly, if some members here had their way, we'd still be living in the days of punch cards, cash only, forget things like EFTPOS for example (which came in the 1980s IIRC).

If you don't like the Go Card, you can stop using public transport as far as I'm concerned.  Go Card users quite rightly get annoyed at paper ticket users now, and those who still advocate paper tickets, and frankly I am sick of those who just simply refuse to switch over.

Spread the network of Go Card availability and just ditch the paper.  Melbourne is doing it (Metcard being the paper equiv), other cities have done it, no reason why we can't!

speak for yourself.  I have never once gotten annoyed at a person buying a paper ticket.  What I do get annoyed at is the longer amount of time it takes for people to top up their go cards on the bus.

Saying if you don't like go card stop using public transport is frankly being stupid. What option do people have?  i have no option as I can not get a drivers license for medical reasons so essentially you are advocating that all people with disabilities should be locked up in their homes and never allowed out in public. Who has the attitude problem?

Be aware of the law also. Not all businesses have the option to refuse cash like you claim.  There are specific guidelines for when a business has the right to refuse cash.  Having said that public transport is one where they can (even if it was privately owned).

[somebody]

Saying if you don't like go card stop using public transport is frankly being stupid. What option do people have?  i have no option as I can not get a drivers license for medical reasons so essentially you are advocating that all people with disabilities should be locked up in their homes and never allowed out in public. Who has the attitude problem?

No, they can get a go card.  It's not hard.

[Stillwater]

The lesson from the C-M video was less about the cost of public transport fares to, from and on the Sunshine Coast, but more about connectivity between buses and the trains.  In addition, the frequency of the bus services is an issue.  No doubt, SC commuters are making their voice known to local members, among them the Speaker of the Parliament and five new ministers in an LNP government.

[ozbob]

People who for various reasons are not able to use a go card can get a TransLink access pass.

See --> http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/other-tickets/special-access-passes/translink-access-pass

[#Metro]

Paper tickets are so yesterday

CUT!!

Why aren't they gone already??!

[somebody]

Why aren't they gone already??!

Apparently too hard to sell go cards on buses.

[SurfRail]

Be aware of the law also. Not all businesses have the option to refuse cash like you claim.  There are specific guidelines for when a business has the right to refuse cash.  Having said that public transport is one where they can (even if it was privately owned).

http://www.rba.gov.au/banknotes/legal-framework/index.html

Common myth.  "Legal tender" does not mean "you must accept this as payment", and never has.  It does have implications which are generally not relevant to somebody turning up and wanting to pay a fare in cash, because the fare payment method (go card) would be specified in advance and you must pay before travelling.

[justanotheruser]

Be aware of the law also. Not all businesses have the option to refuse cash like you claim.  There are specific guidelines for when a business has the right to refuse cash.  Having said that public transport is one where they can (even if it was privately owned).

http://www.rba.gov.au/banknotes/legal-framework/index.html

Common myth.  "Legal tender" does not mean "you must accept this as payment", and never has.  It does have implications which are generally not relevant to somebody turning up and wanting to pay a fare in cash, because the fare payment method (go card) would be specified in advance and you must pay before travelling.

oops sorry. I did mean to mention that it does not apply to public transport but was countering the point that any business can do it. under the laws you actually have the situation where some businesses can refuse legal tender for some things but not others!

[justanotheruser]

Saying if you don't like go card stop using public transport is frankly being stupid. What option do people have?  i have no option as I can not get a drivers license for medical reasons so essentially you are advocating that all people with disabilities should be locked up in their homes and never allowed out in public. Who has the attitude problem?

No, they can get a go card.  It's not hard.

with all due respect Simon I think you may have missed the point.  Do you really think it is reasonable to say to people who have no transport options other than public transport to just not catch public transport if they don't like using go cards?

So far I am yet to see a convincing reason to get rid of paper tickets. The flaw in the it delays the bus argument has been countered yet nobody seems to want to respond to that.