Nominate deadwood routes for review!

[#Metro]

Which routes should be cut, ironed, chopped or changed. Post a number and reasons, and what you'd like to see.

Routes 105, 107 and 108 - cut back to Park Road/PA Hospital or Langlands Park busway turnaround
Interchange with rail or UQ Routes. Money saved can be spent on increased frequency.

Route 475 - cut back to Wooloongabba busway and turn around there.

Route 235 - cut back to Wooloongabba (implement with 230 BUZ). No need to do the whole city-valley thing - duplicates 199/196/cityglider and trains on this section. People can transfer to BUZ 230 or other citybound routes such as BUZ 100, BUZ 200.
Increase frequency on 235

Route 461 - cut back to Indooroopilly interchange

[somebody]

Cut all the 461.
475 - I'd chop of the City-Valley-W'Gabba-PAH bit, but I do see value in a similar service Valley-PAH.

Don't really agree with your other proposals.

Mine:
133 cut to either Mains Rd park 'n' ride or re-route to Garden City.
151 - cut completely
153 - cut out Nemies Rd loop
136 - cut out Garden City deviation
232?
115 - cut completely, convert to 110s
457 - cut completely and most definitely
458/459 - combine with 455/456 by having those use Charlotte/Margaret
476 - no brainer - convert to 475s
435 weekday extension to the CBD.
142 - convert to 546s or similar

[david]

I agree. Remove the 461 completely. IT SHOULD NOT EXIST!!!!

[david]

Here's my nominations

Routes 435, 460 - cut back to Indooroopilly full-time

Route 465 - cut off-peak services, replace with extended 460 to Heathwood

Route 466 - cut off-peak services, extend 110 to Richlands

[Gazza]

161 - shorten to operate only between Garden City and 8MP

[#Metro]

Route 172 - hourly service - could be cut short at Park Road or sent to UQ. Don't let it go to the CBD. Very wiggly too.

[somebody]

Routes 460 - cut back to Indooroopilly full-time

Route 465 - cut off-peak services, replace with extended 460 to Heathwood

That would need to be combined with a 103 extension to Forest Lake.

Seems a bit odd to me though.  Why keep the 460 between Forest Lake and Indooroopilly?  If you are chopping off the city, why not go the whole hog and keep the 465 but remove the 460?

[Jonas Jade]

112 / 113 - cut back/altered to terminate at Boggo Road (or other busway station as appropriate).

[somebody]

112 / 113 - cut back/altered to terminate at Boggo Road (or other busway station as appropriate).

So Annerley Rd loses the 112?  It only leaves the 116.  Can't say I'm a fan of that.

How would the 113 terminate at Boggo Rd?  Use the turnaround in the tunnel?

[Mr X]

If we're not abolishing the 198, can we please please remove some of the kinks from it?

[Jonas Jade]

112 / 113 - cut back/altered to terminate at Boggo Road (or other busway station as appropriate).

So Annerley Rd loses the 112?  It only leaves the 116.  Can't say I'm a fan of that.

How would the 113 terminate at Boggo Rd?  Use the turnaround in the tunnel?

I did forget about Annerley Road!

But I can't say its much of a service though even as it is - the 112 is hourly and barely provides services on the weekend (4 services on Sunday) and finishes early. The 116 is just as bad and doesn't even operate on Sunday. Perhaps something else - (a new route, better hours for one of these?) is needed in there - either way these routes are next to useless as is for Annerley Road.

The 112 is nearly always empty.

The "other station as appropriate" was meant that I wasn't sure of the particulars. I guess the tunnel turnaround is as good a place as any.

[#Metro]

Route 417 - Terminate at Toowong the same way that the 402 gets terminated there. Pax can catch the 412 or 411.
Use the savings to increase frequency on 417.

Route 411 should be considered for upgrade to HFP (until 9pm) does not need to be a full blown BUZ.

[somebody]

I'll add a nomination for the 451 - just increase the 103, which could arguably do with a re-routing.

[#Metro]

Route 416 - This is such a bizzare route, who drew this and why? It basically runs past Toowong Station and duplicates everything going down Coronation Drive!

This route could be cut back to Toowong, and the loop from the route 470 should also be cut off. This could actually become a nice simple feeder service running through the back of Toowong - Stanley Tce/Hillsdon roads - connecting Toowong to Indooroopilly.

It would also allow that insane loop to be cut off 470, and the 470 steam ironed to be direct and straight.

Any others?

[cartoonbirdhaus]

Friday the 13th. Time to wield the ol' chainsaw and hockey mask. First victim should be the 183: replace it with half-hourly 177 service.

[Mr X]

CitySights!

Prices seem outrageous! How many tourists actually use it?

[david]

I'll add a nomination for the 451 - just increase the 103, which could arguably do with a re-routing.

I'm actually a fan of the 451, but only as a peak-hour feeder. I'm actually a big fan for short peak-hour feeder routes. It makes PT more attractive. Hence why I've been calling for the 466 to be kept during peak-hour, but replaced with an extended 110 during off-peak. Similar with the 465/460 plan that I wrote of earlier.

CitySights!

Prices seem outrageous! How many tourists actually use it?

Funny that. I saw a full bus travel down Coro Drive around Milton the other day. Maybe it is quite popular?

[david]

Routes 460 - cut back to Indooroopilly full-time

Route 465 - cut off-peak services, replace with extended 460 to Heathwood

That would need to be combined with a 103 extension to Forest Lake.

Seems a bit odd to me though.  Why keep the 460 between Forest Lake and Indooroopilly?  If you are chopping off the city, why not go the whole hog and keep the 465 but remove the 460?

Because of the current 2tph at Richlands. That's why. Until that is fixed, there needs to be a feeder service to Indooroopilly where people can board the huge range of services. Of course, cutting back to Mt Ommaney when a BUZ is finally introduced there.

Alternatively, make 462 run all-day. Then Forest Lake has better access to proper frequent PT at Darra Station. Removes the need for 460 altogether.

And for the record, I support the 103 extension to Forest Lake, along with an upgrade to cross-town frequency (15 min peak, 30 min off-peak - 6am to 11pm everyday)

[somebody]

Route 416 - This is such a bizzare route, who drew this and why? It basically runs past Toowong Station and duplicates everything going down Coronation Drive!

This route could be cut back to Toowong, and the loop from the route 470 should also be cut off. This could actually become a nice simple feeder service running through the back of Toowong - Stanley Tce/Hillsdon roads - connecting Toowong to Indooroopilly.

It would also allow that insane loop to be cut off 470, and the 470 steam ironed to be direct and straight.

Is that the same as what I support: combining the 470+415?  Would take the 470 out of Toowong of course.

I'll add a nomination for the 451 - just increase the 103, which could arguably do with a re-routing.

I'm actually a fan of the 451, but only as a peak-hour feeder. I'm actually a big fan for short peak-hour feeder routes. It makes PT more attractive. Hence why I've been calling for the 466 to be kept during peak-hour, but replaced with an extended 110 during off-peak. Similar with the 465/460 plan that I wrote of earlier.

The problem is the Mt Ommaney bound 103 comes on the south side of Darra rail, the 451 on the north side.  I think the 103 should be straightened to just run Harcourt Rd/Manburgh Tce/Bellwood St.  The only real issue with that is it then doesn't pass the Monier Rd shops, although it's still a fairly short walk.

Routes 460 - cut back to Indooroopilly full-time

Route 465 - cut off-peak services, replace with extended 460 to Heathwood

That would need to be combined with a 103 extension to Forest Lake.

Seems a bit odd to me though.  Why keep the 460 between Forest Lake and Indooroopilly?  If you are chopping off the city, why not go the whole hog and keep the 465 but remove the 460?

Because of the current 2tph at Richlands. That's why. Until that is fixed, there needs to be a feeder service to Indooroopilly where people can board the huge range of services. Of course, cutting back to Mt Ommaney when a BUZ is finally introduced there.

Alternatively, make 462 run all-day. Then Forest Lake has better access to proper frequent PT at Darra Station. Removes the need for 460 altogether.

And for the record, I support the 103 extension to Forest Lake, along with an upgrade to cross-town frequency (15 min peak, 30 min off-peak - 6am to 11pm everyday)

I think keep the 460 as it is until a more full review can happen here.  If it extends/deviates to Heathwood, still running 2bph with the 465 upped to 2bph so long as there is coordination you would have a 4bph right along Forest Lake Blvd.  Alright I/B, but I doubt commuters will be very interested in checking timetables to see if they should go to QSBS or Central O/B.

EDIT: corrected tph to bph

[somebody]

112 / 113 - cut back/altered to terminate at Boggo Road (or other busway station as appropriate).

I'd say get rid of the 113 and increase 112 trips, although that does (possibly) have issues east of the SEB.  I think it should be done.

[SurfRail]

Really obvious one - 177/183.  Kill the 183, make the 177 a better service feeding into Griffith Uni, with the 178 as the peak hour variation.

Focus on rationalising Old Cleveland Rd, Mains Rd, Warrigal Rd, Coro Dr and Milton Rd.

On the Gold Coast - kill off the 21 between Surfers and Nerang.

[#Metro]

Definitely agree with rationalising those corridors, especially Mains Road and Warrigal Road.

Mains Road is perfect for a Class A or Class B busway to Browns Plains. However, in the current environment, I doubt that would be funded.
Certainly, it always gets decent capacity and demand. A future busway could feed into a North-South subway.

[somebody]

Really obvious one - 177/183.  Kill the 183, make the 177 a better service feeding into Griffith Uni, with the 178 as the peak hour variation.

Focus on rationalising Old Cleveland Rd, Mains Rd, Warrigal Rd, Coro Dr and Milton Rd.

On the Gold Coast - kill off the 21 between Surfers and Nerang.

What are you thinking for Coro & Milton Rd, other than consolidating 457-9?

Definitely agree with rationalising those corridors, especially Mains Road and Warrigal Road.

Without speeding up the Beenleigh line, I just don't see it.

[Mr X]

I think he means simplifying the excessive peak hour rockets. Certainly the trunk BUZ 130/140/150 should not be altered or amalgamated, but why does the area need so many peak hour buses going different routes?

Off peak those corridors are ace though.

[somebody]

Certainly the trunk BUZ 130/140/150 should not be altered or amalgamated, but why does the area need so many peak hour buses going different routes?

Off peak those corridors are ace though.

In addition to my proposal to split the 150, I think the 130 should serve Hellawell Rd - that would be marginally/debateably faster, but more importantly give BUZ service to some currently poorly served areas at minimal cost.

[Jonas Jade]

That removes it from the Calamvale/Sunnybank Hills shops area as an off peak trip generator making it less attractive for local trips.

[somebody]

That removes it from the Calamvale/Sunnybank Hills shops area as an off peak trip generator making it less attractive for local trips.

That's true.  You can (a) deviate the 132 into there (b) interchange for the 140 (c) a bit of both.  Without doing so, how are you going to get a reasonable service along Hellawell Rd?  Deviate the 135 along Stone's Rd?  Many would say that takes it out of the bits it currently serves, including Sunnybank Plaza.

[somebody]

Is the 178 a candidate also?  I can't see the value this route adds.

[#Metro]

177
178
183

Typical brisbane bus route - Infrequent bus line (hourly!) then its peak hour rocket counterpart plus a variation.

CUT!!

One bus route - Cardindale to Griffith uni, terminating at the busway side platform turnaround. I'm not even sure if 178 gets enough passengers to justify running to the CBD, even in peak hour. So I would just have a frequent feeder bus to Griffith and let people connect all day.

The frequency along creek road that comes from feederisation will also allow other routes to be abolished and consolidated - 174/175 could be steam ironed straight, for instance.

[somebody]

Cut the 177!  Doesn't that provide a useful cross town service?

[#Metro]

Cut the 177!  Doesn't that provide a useful cross town service?

*chainsaw noises*



I agree it is useful. Pity about the need to run off arterial roads to get to the uni there.

183 and 178 would be removed, and folded into a more frequent 177 (which would probs be renumbered). There are enough rockets and BUZ services at Griffith Uni to poke a stick at that even a full 178 people could still transfer easily.

[Mr X]

Scrap the 415?
http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/services-and-timetables/timetables/110606-414,415.pdf

Seems to be a rehash of every other Coronation drive route past Toowong. With a BUZ412 and 444, why does it need to go to the city? The Taringa section could be mixed with a better 414.

[#Metro]

Seems to be a rehash of every other Coronation drive route past Toowong. With a BUZ412 and 444, why does it need to go to the city? The Taringa section could be mixed with a better 414.

Terminate it a toowong. Transfer to rail at Toowong or BUZ services 444, P88 and (BUZ 400) and also frequent rail services to the CBD. It can make a nice shuttle service between Indro and Toowong in the back areas there.

Alternatively, send it down milton road to the CBD. Lots of complaints from friends I know living along Milton Road- they hate the 470 and apparently it is not reliable enough.

It is amazing how almost every single suburb in Brisbane has its own bus and rocket DIRECT to the CBD. Brisbane is a city pushing 2 million now! hourly and half hourly services are soo 20 years ago!

[#Metro]

http://translink.com.au/travel-information/services-and-timetables/buses/route-470

470 has a very erratic timetable. Sometimes it does the loop, other times not. Sometimes it runs 15 min frequency, then 20 then 15 then HOURLY (!?). Sometimes it commences from North Quay and goes to New Farm (why? heaps of 199/196/CityGliders). One of the "coverage" routes 445/433 or 415 could probably go down Milton Road to supplement frequency along that corridor. I know there is rail but the spacing is not that accessible.

[somebody]

Scrap the 415?

No, I don't think so, but perhaps do something different with it.  Scrapping the 414 seems more reasonable.

[SurfRail]

I wonder if a running summary could be inserted as the top thread?

[ozbob]

Media release 19 January 2012

SEQ: Core Frequent Network: Legacy routes should give way to frequent feeders

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers calls for the second stage of rolling out of a Core Frequent Network to begin.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"RAIL Back On Track would like to congratulate Translink on the recent reviews, and soon to be implemented, which were conducted in the Northern and Eastern regions of the network. These have involved the modification of some of the older routes to remove no longer necessary sections of routes that only still existed 'because they always have'. These reviews allowed TransLink to consult their passengers and find out what changes they preferred, and what they wanted from the network. This was a good effort all round."

"We would now like them to move forward with these consultations and start on regions within the greater Brisbane region. By breaking Brisbane into manageable chunks, and changing each as required, TransLink can breathe new life into some of the city's older routes, or scrap and modify those that are no longer suitable for their designed purpose.

By changing the route of bus services, Translink has a real opportunity to provide for the changing uses of our suburbs, and allow people to make the most of our cities public transport.

"There is a strong case for many 'legacy' bus routes to be simplified, consolidated and reviewed. Failure to review such legacy services leaves a legacy system that costs money while not providing decent service frequencies or service span. In a time when fares have increased to levels that are some of the highest in the world, it is only fair that efficiencies in the network be found."

"We don't believe that people won't or don't transfer.* The legacy of almost every suburb having a direct bus, plus multiple slight variations all running at low frequency to the CBD means that a lot of expense to carry air to the CBD and duplication occurs, while decent service frequencies that are attractive to passengers are not achieved."

"It is time to review all of these 'legacy' routes."

For example, take bus 416 (Toowong - CBD). This service duplicates everything that already runs down Coronation Drive plus runs straight past Toowong rail station. It is pure waste. There are just 7 services in total in an entire day. Why can't this service end at Toowong Rail station? Or bus 183 (Carindale, Griffith University and CBD) which runs hourly and duplicates frequent busway services. Services would be much more frequent in the suburbs where people are if this route were shortened to feed the busway rather than run air all the way to the CBD."

"And there are many more examples."

"With a bit of change and willingness to interchange, existing routes can be shortened and simplified but run at higher frequency for the same cost. We just can't afford to run large volumes of air to the CBD with this 'everything direct to the centre' philosophy."

"As RAIL Back On Track has always said, services must be frequent, bottom line!

References:

1. Nominate deadwood routes for review! http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7466.0

2. SEQ: Core Frequent Network: Interchange the ticket to ending bus nightmare http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7403.0

3. Route 416 http://translink.com.au/travel-information/services-and-timetables/buses/route-416

* Table 2-1, 'Human Transit - How clearer thinking about public transit can enrich our communities and our lives',
Jarrett Walker, page 36 shows that waiting time penalties for connections can be reduced dramatically provided
frequent service, information, reliability etc are present.

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[achiruel]

475 - I'd chop of the City-Valley-W'Gabba-PAH bit, but I do see value in a similar service Valley-PAH.

Problem is by doing that you will remove the only bus service from Main St, Kangaroo Point.

[somebody]

475 - I'd chop of the City-Valley-W'Gabba-PAH bit, but I do see value in a similar service Valley-PAH.

Problem is by doing that you will remove the only bus service from Main St, Kangaroo Point.

I don't think that service is highly utilised.  There are the ferries.  Besides, I did say to have a service Valley-PAH so if you insisted you could interchange in the Valley.

[SurfRail]

475 - I'd chop of the City-Valley-W'Gabba-PAH bit, but I do see value in a similar service Valley-PAH.

Problem is by doing that you will remove the only bus service from Main St, Kangaroo Point.

I don't think that service is highly utilised.  There are the ferries.  Besides, I did say to have a service Valley-PAH so if you insisted you could interchange in the Valley.

A service is definitely required.  The portion of Main Street where it is really needed is too remote from the ferry terminals or the busway.  I think extending the 29 to the RBWH (bypassing Brunswick Street) would work well here.