15 minute trains or 9 journeys then free?

[#Metro]

Which one would you choose?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Frequency..... duuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 

[p858snake]

I hardly catch trains enough as it is to benefit from freebies, So freq of course.

[Mr X]

I'd rather frequent trains than the LNP's lame duck solution.

[Cam]

I abstained because the voting options suggest that 15 minute off peak rail frequencies may be implemented if the ALP are re-elected in Queensland.

Sadly, there is little chance of 15 minute frequencies being introduced on any line within the next 3 years regardless of which party forms government post state election.

[#Metro]

I abstained because the voting options suggest that 15 minute off peak rail frequencies may be implemented if the ALP are re-elected in Queensland.

Sadly, there is little chance of 15 minute frequencies being introduced on any line within the next 3 years regardless of which party forms government post state election.

All it is is a poll to see which is valued more - price or frequency.

[BrizCommuter]

I abstained because the voting options suggest that 15 minute off peak rail frequencies may be implemented if the ALP are re-elected in Queensland.

Sadly, there is little chance of 15 minute frequencies being introduced on any line within the next 3 years regardless of which party forms government post state election.

At the moment there is little chance of 15 minute frequencies being introduced to any more lines within the next 8 years!

[Cam]

All it is is a poll to see which is valued more - price or frequency.

Frequency - but not at any price.

Some may consider a doubling of fares between 2009 & 2014 is worth paying for a doubling in off peak rail frequency. However, the vast majority of my own PT use is peak or shoulder peak.

[#Metro]

This looks like it is going to be the most definitive RAILBOT poll EVER.

Poll closes soon.

[Set in train]

Some may consider a doubling of fares between 2009 & 2014 is worth paying for a doubling in off peak rail frequency. However, the vast majority of my own PT use is peak or shoulder peak.

2012 now, there wil NOT be 4 TPH by 2014 or 2015.

[#Metro]

Frequency wins!

[Jonno]

All it is is a poll to see which is valued more - price or frequency.

Frequency - but not at any price.

Some may consider a doubling of fares between 2009 & 2014 is worth paying for a doubling in off peak rail frequency. However, the vast majority of my own PT use is peak or shoulder peak.

The greater good to our economy, environment and communities???

[HappyTrainGuy]

Frequency wins!

REVOTE!!! It has to be rigged with those stats 

[Cam]

All it is is a poll to see which is valued more - price or frequency.

Frequency - but not at any price.

Some may consider a doubling of fares between 2009 & 2014 is worth paying for a doubling in off peak rail frequency. However, the vast majority of my own PT use is peak or shoulder peak.

The greater good to our economy, environment and communities???

"Frequency - but not at any fare price." Perhaps you were thinking I meant the price that the government pays to implement an increased frequency.

[#Metro]

This is purely a competition experiment to tell which policy is more important- fares or frequency.

Judging from the results, the LNP is barking up the wrong tree. Discounting rotten apples is not a vote puller.
They should be focusing on 15 minute trains in the off peak.

[Cam]

Judging from the results, the LNP is barking up the wrong tree. Discounting rotten apples is not a vote puller.
They should be focusing on 15 minute trains in the off peak.

Yes, whichever party forms government after the election should focus on this.

[Fares_Fair]

The rationale for this is that the LNP's over-riding theme for constituents is cost of living increases, which impact many right across the board.
That certainly would be a noble aim, but for the Sunshine Coast it is not achievable.

Regards,
Fares_Fair

[Gazza]

This is purely a competition experiment to tell which policy is more important- fares or frequency.

Judging from the results, the LNP is barking up the wrong tree. Discounting rotten apples is not a vote puller.
They should be focusing on 15 minute trains in the off peak.

Well, any registered RBoT member who voted for 9 trips would be a bit of a pariah.

[Jonas Jade]

I don't think many people (outside this forum) would properly understand how much frequency actually impacts until they have it - it's an intangible, and until they have it, they will whinge about money. (And once they have it, they will whinge about money). And money/costs will buy votes because its easier to appeal to (from a pollies POV)

[Stillwater]

Don't worry, FF, the LNP criticises the ALP for its broken promises to the people of the Sunshine Coast, but it should worry more about delivering on its own promises for the region, including the statements contained within the 'Liveable Sunshine Coast' policy, which all SC LNP Members have supported publicly.

The promises include: "Delivery of affordable and efficient transport infrastructure to support sustainable growth on the Sunshine Coast."  (Whatever that means, and we won't know until the LNP reveals its transport policy.)

The document also reveals this: " ... The LNP will deliver a Sunshine Coast Integrated Transport Plan containing clear delivery timelines for infrastructure and services."  It is being awaited with much anticipation among SC electors.

Recent evidence suggests some wavering on the promise for a standalone Sunshine Coast transport policy within an overarching policy document from the LNP -- evidence that most likely can come out during the upcoming election campaign.

Here is the policy skelton, flimsy as it is:  
http://www.fionasimpson.com.au/Portals/0/Sunshine-Coast-Policy-Booklet-A4-pdf.pdf

[Fares_Fair]

Was this document made null and void by Campbell Newman's declaration?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Stillwater]

It depends how you look at it.  Mr Newman said all previous policy was 'null and void', but it could be argued there was no policy in the first place, just a promise to have a policy.  In other words, had there been a policy, it would have been null and void, but does the promise to have a policy also disappear?

If it is null and void, why does Fiona Simpson still have the document available on her website?  By not removing it, is she acting in defiance of Mr Newman?

But, hey, don't you love the way we in Queensland discuss non policy this way!!

As you have put it aptly, FF, both parties exercise 'non-cognisance' when it comes to the Sunshine Coast.  They stare at a map of the state and a myopic infliction registers a blank on the brain right where the Coast should be.

[Fares_Fair]

It depends how you look at it.  Mr Newman said all previous policy was 'null and void', but it could be argued there was no policy in the first place, just a promise to have a policy.  In other words, had there been a policy, it would have been null and void, but does the promise to have a policy also disappear?

If it is null and void, why does Fiona Simpson still have the document available on her website?  By not removing it, is she acting in defiance of Mr Newman?

But, hey, don't you love the way we in Queensland discuss non policy this way!!

As you have put it aptly, FF, both parties exercise 'non-cognisance' when it comes to the Sunshine Coast.  They stare at a map of the state and a myopic infliction registers a blank on the brain right where the Coast should be.

I'll call their office tomorow morning and ask.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Fares_Fair]

It depends how you look at it.  Mr Newman said all previous policy was 'null and void', but it could be argued there was no policy in the first place, just a promise to have a policy.  In other words, had there been a policy, it would have been null and void, but does the promise to have a policy also disappear?

If it is null and void, why does Fiona Simpson still have the document available on her website?  By not removing it, is she acting in defiance of Mr Newman?

But, hey, don't you love the way we in Queensland discuss non policy this way!!

As you have put it aptly, FF, both parties exercise 'non-cognisance' when it comes to the Sunshine Coast.  They stare at a map of the state and a myopic infliction registers a blank on the brain right where the Coast should be.

Hello SW,

After contacting the member for Maroochydore's office this morning, I am told that the link to the Sunshine Coast policy document in question above, has been removed.
I was informed that an updated policy document would be released in the near future.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Stillwater]

Thanks FF.  There was an air of duplicity about the LNP policy position.  This action closes it.  With Mr Emerson's frank admission that his party won't promise to deliver the Sunshine Coast duplication any faster than the ALP, it shows that local LNP members have engaged in unproductive politicking on this issue during the past year in particular.

Removal of this document from Fiona Simpson's website removes the undertaking to have a Sunshine Coast Integrated Transport Policy when in government.  Again, that is consistent with Mr Emerson's recent disclosure that he won't promise that which can't be delivered.  Fiona Simpson and others had held out the hope that a a track duplication to Nambour could occur earlier than 2031.

So, one wonders what the updated policy promised by Ms Simpson will contain.  The LNP will be replacing a policy to have a policy with a replacement document.  The old policy promise, now set to be taken down, was to provide proper targets, timelines, and costings for new transport infrasture.  Lordy, that goes too.

[ozbob]

Glad I saved it ...   

[Stillwater]

Hopefully, we can strip the politics back and get down to the possible and doable.  However, that won't happen as we approach what you call the 'silly season' (read election campaign), Ozbob.

[#Metro]

[#Metro]

"If the service is not coming soon, then it is not useful"

Well said. 

[Stillwater]

The idea of a separate map showing a 'frequency network' is interesting.  In Brisbane, that would be mainly buses.  For someone wanting to interchange, they don't need a timetable as such (or 2-3 timetables for various tracks/routes), just a map where a bus/train will come along every 10-15 mins.

[ozbob]

Media release 11 January 2012

SEQ: No go on 9 journeys then free

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said that the public would gladly forgo the proposed '9 journeys then free' as compared to the present '10 journeys then free' on go cards,  in exchange for decent frequency and mobility on trains and buses.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"A recent poll at RAIL Back On Track has confirmed the need for a frequency boost of all public transport service frequency, particularly rail out of peak (1,2).

"Overwhelming, members have indicated that frequency improvements are the main game, not ticketing policies that are just more of the same!

"Public transport policy vacuums do little to encourage community confidence."

References:

1. 15 minute trains or 9 journeys then free?  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7383.0

2. Frequency is Freedom - Jarrett Walker 

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[dwb]

Personally I think 9 journeys then free would be well implemented in 2013, given we know there is another rise then.

I almost NEVER do more than 10 journeys a week as many days I cycle to work. Even with evening and weekend trips I usually only get up to 11 or 12 journeys a week.

Not every trip should be discounted, but for it to be effective people need to see the target, need to experience the "thrill" of seeing a zero cost journey. For it to be really effective the carrot must be within reach and most office workers I know do at least one bike, walk, car pool or lift a week.

[#Metro]

I think 10 trips is set right.

People should not get discounts for things they already were going to do anyway. That's like spending money for no net additional gain.
10 trips means that something else gets substituted - ideally a car trip on the weekend but it might also be a walking trip at lunch time.

Many people would not catch public transport in their area even if it were free - the service just isn't there when they want it, it doesn't connect or go to places they want to go to and it might be too slow.

I'd rather swap a 9 trips then free in exchange for 15 minutes frequency all day on the Ferny Grove line, BUZ 400 and BUZ 230.

[ozbob]

I think 10 trips is set right.

People should not get discounts for things they already were going to do anyway. That's like spending money for no net additional gain.
10 trips means that something else gets substituted - ideally a car trip on the weekend but it might also be a walking trip at lunch time.

Many people would not catch public transport in their area even if it were free - the service just isn't there when they want it, it doesn't connect or go to places they want to go to and it might be too slow.

I'd rather swap a 9 trips then free in exchange for 15 minutes frequency all day on the Ferny Grove line, BUZ 400 and BUZ 230.

substitute journeys for trips ...  although in some circumstances a trip can equal a journey, and journey can equal up to 4 trips technically (more under some circumstances), but lets not confuse the issue  ... LOL

[dwb]

Let's be real, the issue here is not 9 journeys then free OR 15min train service.

Also, I said when the next 15% rise occurs, the switch to 9 could be warranted.

If you refer to the comments about average number of trips under old periodicals (train reporting error), then even at 9 journeys then free you're still not giving it to 98% of people. I'd be willing to put money that the difference in cost between running the two schemes would be minimal.

[#Metro]

In a competition experiment you measure or rank which thing has a higher value.

People value frequency far far higher than a small discount on the ticketing. And that's what this poll has determined.

Of course everyone wants a discount. It sounds nice. Just like a "free" house boost.

The LNP should go back to the drawing board with their discount plan. They are barking up the wrong tree.

It is not a network plan, it's not a frequency improvement, and there really isn't a benefit that could not be obtained by a more efficient usable network- i.e. clearing out deadwood, ironing out niggles on the rail network (missing crossovers and flyovers etc) and so forth.

Shall I do a competition experiment on whether people would forgo Sunshine Coast Line duplication in lieu of 9 then free?

[Fares_Fair]

substitute journeys for trips ...  although in some circumstances a trip can equal a journey, and journey can equal up to 4 trips technically (more under some circumstances), but lets not confuse the issue  ... LOL

Lol, indeed 

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[dwb]

In a competition experiment you measure or rank which thing has a higher value.

People value frequency far far higher than a small discount on the ticketing. And that's what this poll has determined.

Of course everyone wants a discount. It sounds nice. Just like a "free" house boost.

The LNP should go back to the drawing board with their discount plan. They are barking up the wrong tree.

It is not a network plan, it's not a frequency improvement, and there really isn't a benefit that could not be obtained by a more efficient usable network- i.e. clearing out deadwood, ironing out niggles on the rail network (missing crossovers and flyovers etc) and so forth.

Shall I do a competition experiment on whether people would forgo Sunshine Coast Line duplication in lieu of 9 then free?

The thing is, it's just not valid, the cost difference between 9 or 10 then free is not buying you 15min trains. Fullstop.

[#Metro]

The thing is, it's just not valid, the cost difference between 9 or 10 then free is not buying you 15min trains. Fullstop.

Not valid for what? If anything I would say 9 then free is not valid - or relevant!

How about giving people useful stuff not things that sound nice
but are useless for most of the population.

People want decent frequency, not discounts on rotten apples. The further tinkering with ticketing misses the point.


9 then free is a much lower priority than decent, frequent services.

[dwb]

You do really like repeating yourself don't you?