New timetable - Gold Coast/Beenleigh Line

[#Metro]

The next timetable change is the Gold Coast / Beenleigh Line timetable



* What are the problems?
* What could be done better?
* What should be kept the same?

* E.g. Should all services stop at Park Road now?
* Is it possible to get 15 minute off-peak frequent services to Beenleigh/Rocklea/Kuraby???
* Feeder buses at stations along the line?
* Car park issues?

[ozbob]

Media release 13 March 2011

SEQ: Gold Coast timetable revamp could be done quickly

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters believes that the Gold Coast line has the least mediocre timetable on the network, and so is surprised at the advice that the Gold Coast line's timetable is the next in line for a revamp (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"RAIL Back on Track supports a clock face timetable for peak, counter peak and off peak, a rationalisation of Sunday services to be less different from Saturday services and the removal of padding from the timetable.  This seems to be the limit of achievablity on the current infrastructure, without even more primarily positioning services.  Currently, there are three southbound services departing Central on a weekday within the 38 minutes until 5:34m to be followed by 51 minute gap.  Clearly at least one and probably two of these services are largely positioning, and would be more useful delaying the hourly frequency which onsets southbound after 8:24pm, but the infrastructure doesn't allow for this.  However, it is unclear why these services couldn't be re-timed so that there is a 30 minute clockface frequency.  Indeed, it is unclear why the whole timetable isn't clockface."

"The main infrastructure constraint for peak services is the seven space Robina stabling yard.  It had been rumoured that this was planned to be increased to ten space when it was five space, but it seems that it has been decided not to proceed fully with this, quite yet.  Currently, every space is used.  The two extra spaces implemented in recent years plus the previously unused space were used up by the 4:34am and 6:02am ex-Varsity Lakes services and the Varsity Lakes extension, which wasted one space due to the dwelling arrangements at Varsity Lakes caused by the poor train frequency to the Airport."

"The main infrastructure constraint for off peak services is the lack of 'quadding', or alternative infrastructure to allow passing moves in both directions.  A while ago, it was proposed on the RAIL Back On Track forum to run bi-directional passing moves on the triplicated tracks, which would allow 15 minute frequency both to Beenleigh and Varsity Lakes (2).  Limitations are that it cannot be maintained counter peak, especially in the PM where conflicting moves bite hard and is likely to have a large and negative effect on reliability.  Also, the northbound Gold Coast trains could currently only serve Park Rd if they use platform 4, which is presently locked off and not in service."

"The other issue is messing with the timetable would presumably require sign off from Airtrain.  In the recent past negotiations with Airtrain have not been successful (3,4,5).  A reasonable service on Airtrain would effectively be one more space in the Robina stabling on current run times."

"Recent timetable revisions have seen the addition of significant amounts of fat to the Gold Coast timetable.  The timetable dated 14 July 2007 (6) is 4 minutes faster Robina to Central for most weekday services and 5 minutes for most weekend services compared to the current timetable (7).  The other issue is the 5 minute run time between Robina and Varsity Lakes is too slow.  4.1km on 120km/h track doesn't even reach a 50km/h average speed.  A 3 minute run time here ought to be achievable.  It seems the only reason to have a 5 minute run time is to artificially inflate the on time running statistic.  Notice how the evening slowdowns due to rock throwers hasn't resulted in any timetable change.  While this could allow a more reasonable dwell at Varsity Lakes in the daytime from the current 32 minutes to 9 minutes in the daytime without messing with the Airtrain and also freeing up a space in the Robina stabling, this would reduce the operating margin to a greater degree.  $256 million was spent on the Salisbury-Kuraby triplication (8) which didn't result in significant timetable enhancements being possible, it only made the service more reliable.  Must we have the additional padding for reliability even after such expenditure has been made?"

"RAIL Back on Track prefers that if this is to be done as a priority, these points are able to be addressed quickly to move on to other lines where there is lower fruit to be picked.  Also improving the feeder buses to the Gold Coast line would be better done after the train timetable revamp. RAIL Back on Track members have some particular concerns about the 761 and 765 bus routes (9)."

"Stations beyond Northgate and Darra languish with half hourly frequency stopping all stations and therefore the promises of ExpressLink to Ipswich and Caboolture and UrbanLink to Strathpine (10) are not delivered on.  RAIL Back on Track feels that delivery of these promises, which are achievable quite easily now, are the real priority."

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

References:

1.   http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2011/03/transport-minister-answers-your-questions.html?site=brisbane&program=612_breakfast

2.   http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4506.0

3.   http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/travel/minister-questions-airtrains-monopoly-20101013-16iqr.html

4.   http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2010/10/airtrain-answers-its-critics.html?site=brisbane&program=612_breakfast

5.   http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5202.0

6.   http://backontrack.org/docs/tt/070714_GoldCoast.pdf

7.   http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/services-and-timetables/timetables/100427_goldcoast.pdf

8.   http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/NetworkServices/SEQIP/CompletedProjects/Pages/SalisburyKuraby.aspx

9.   http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5172.0

10.   http://www.connectingseq.qld.gov.au/About/Rail.aspx

[BrizCommuter]

The next timetable change is the Gold Coast / Beenleigh Line timetable

...and Ferny Grove, Doomben, Airport, and Cleveland Lines.

[petey3801]

The night-time slowdown due to rockthrowers etc. on the Gold Coast Line has basically been scrapped, it's now only mandatory to slow to 100km/h when approaching/going under a couple road overbridges down there.

[mufreight]

Unfortunately a clockface timetable is not suportable on most lines due to economic constraints of crewing and equipment utilisation, a situation excabated by some infrastructure constraints.
Resolving the infrastructure constraints first with the construction of the CRR, duplication of some existing single track sections, Beerburrum - Nambour, Sandgate - Schorncliffe, Keppra - Ferny Grove and the Clevland line beyond Manly, then it then becomes possible to better utilise crews and rollingstock although there will remain economic constraints in terms of crew costs with layovers at terminal stations but without CRR there is little that can be acomplished system wide.

[#Metro]

I think there could be some significant improvement regardless of CRR.

Trains can be run on current infrastructure more frequently, and perhaps a few infrastructure upgrades at key locations (there was mention of  bi-di signalling on Beenleigh line / extra platforms at Kuraby/ a crossover somewhere) could be done very quickly to get 15 minute train frequency at least within the metropolitan part of Brisbane. This is better than nothing and far better than waiting until 2031 for UrbanLink/ExpressLink.

Peak improvements will be more tricky, but there are a lot of complaints about off-peak train services, which should be easier to solve.

[Golliwog]

The next timetable change is the Gold Coast / Beenleigh Line timetable

...and Ferny Grove, Doomben, Airport, and Cleveland Lines.

Exactly.

[somebody]

Here's my radical suggestion: 4tph All to Coopers Plains (add a crossover from Salisbury #1 to Coopers Plains #2), and then 2tph Beenleigh trains run express Park Rd-Coopers Plains.

Just putting it out there.  I'd guess that people between Banoon and Kuraby would prefer the 4tph stopping all stations.

Unfortunately a clockface timetable is not suportable on most lines due to economic constraints of crewing and equipment utilisation, a situation excabated by some infrastructure constraints.
Resolving the infrastructure constraints first with the construction of the CRR, duplication of some existing single track sections, Beerburrum - Nambour, Sandgate - Schorncliffe, Keppra - Ferny Grove and the Clevland line beyond Manly, then it then becomes possible to better utilise crews and rollingstock although there will remain economic constraints in terms of crew costs with layovers at terminal stations but without CRR there is little that can be acomplished system wide.

Huh?

There are currently 32 minute dwells at Cleveland and Varsity Lakes, > 20 minute dwells at Domestic Airport and Ferny Grove.  And Richlands.  Not sure about Cab/BNH/IPS/Rosewood.

[#Metro]

Here's my radical suggestion: 4tph All to Coopers Plains (add a crossover from Salisbury #1 to Coopers Plains #2), and then 2tph Beenleigh trains run express Park Rd-Coopers Plains.

Just putting it out there.  I'd guess that people between Banoon and Kuraby would prefer the 4tph stopping all stations.

I like this suggestion A LOT!! . Rocklea terminators are possible, but Rocklea is a bit too short IMHO, it needs to go further than that.

Question is, is this possible to timetable? (I am hopeless at train diagrams & timings).

[somebody]

Here's my radical suggestion: 4tph All to Coopers Plains (add a crossover from Salisbury #1 to Coopers Plains #2), and then 2tph Beenleigh trains run express Park Rd-Coopers Plains.

Just putting it out there.  I'd guess that people between Banoon and Kuraby would prefer the 4tph stopping all stations.

I like this suggestion A LOT!! . Rocklea terminators are possible, but Rocklea is a bit too short IMHO, it needs to go further than that.

Question is, is this possible to timetable? (I am hopeless at train diagrams & timings).

Rocklea terminators also involve a conflicting move leaving the siding.  I don't like Rocklea terminators much at all.  You might as well go to Corinda via Tennyson.

Not easy to timetable this, and would also help with 4tph to the Airport, as you could have 15 minute frequency Coopers Plains-Domestic, limited stops.  Goes something like this:

Domestic Airport	:00		:15		:30		:45
International Airport	:03		:18		:33		:48
Eagle Junction	:11		:26		:31		:56
Ferny Grove		:58		:13		:28		:43
Keperra		:01		:16		:31		:46
Bowen Hills	:18	:21	:33	:36	:48	:51	:03	:06
Park Rd	:39	:42	:54	:57	:09	:12	:24	:27
Pattern	Express	All Stops	Express	All Stops	Express	All Stops	Express	All Stops
Coopers Plains	:47	:59	:02	:14	:17	:29	:32	:44
Pattern	Loganlea only		All Stops		Loganlea only		All Stops
Beenleigh	:12		:35		:42		:05
Coomera	:25				:55
Helensvale	:31				:01
Varsity Lakes	:47				:17
-
Varsity Lakes	:04				:34
Helensvale	:20				:50
Coomera	:26				:56
Beenleigh	:39		:44		:09		:14
Pattern	Loganlea only		All Stops		Loganlea only		All Stops
Coopers Plains	:03	:07	:18	:22	:33	:37	:48	:52
Pattern	Express	All Stops	Express	All Stops	Express	All Stops	Express	All Stops
Park Rd	:12	:24	:27	:39	:42	:54	:57	:09
Bowen Hills	:31	:43	:46	:58	:01	:13	:16	:28
Keperra		:05		:20		:35		:50
Ferny Grove		:10		:25		:40		:55
Eagle Junction	:38		:53		:08		:23
International Airport	:46		:01		:16		:31
Domestic Airport	:50		:05		:20		:35

Seems that single tracks do not cause a problem for this timetable except for Coomera-Helensvale.

One issue would be that the crossover would become a stranded investment post CRR.  Unless their current feeble plans aren't changed.

[Golliwog]

I don't know about it being a stranded investment. It might not receive regular use, but in cases of emergencies (boom gates get hit, etc) it could allow a better service to be run. I know the lack of working cross overs between Mitchelton and Bowen Hills means that if theres a problem between the two, that they almost always bus-titute the line to Mitchelton and run what they can past there by train. This was especially annoying when it was because of a boom gate incident between Gaythorne and Mitchelton.

[#Metro]

One issue would be that the crossover would become a stranded investment post CRR.  Unless their current feeble plans aren't changed.

The question though is would it matter anyway. An improved timetable has benefits now, which people will value more than benefits coming in 2020. If a crossover is relatively cheap (how much would it cost?) then it could well be justified.

Coopers Plains is also a nice location. It would not be hard to extend a feeder bus to Garden City and Sunnybank. And the carpark there could be converted to a bus interchange.

[#Metro]

Have to say, I think this is a great idea, I hope it develops further as the thread grows.

[ClintonL94]

Why not take the advantage of the third track to Kuraby and extend the Coopers Plains terminators to Kuraby?

[somebody]

Made a bit of a boo-boo.  Two trains are in the single track near Coomera for 1 minute.  And you can't re-time without having tighter than 3 minute headways in the CBD.  I think this can only be done with the trimming of a bit of fat.  Trimming fat north of Coomera actually makes the conflict worse.  You could mess with the line pairings so that the Airport line single track isn't a constraint, but not likely to happen.

I think we should stick with the 4tph to Kuraby idea.  It is more likely to be done.

Why not take the advantage of the third track to Kuraby and extend the Coopers Plains terminators to Kuraby?

Because then the middle track becomes effectively a single track.  You cannot run Coopers Plains-Kuraby-(dwell)-Kuraby-Coopers plains in 15 minutes.  You need the crossover at a different point.

[#Metro]

Wasn't there a delay issue there with that (15 minutes to Kuraby?)
Though I like the idea of extending it as far as it can go towards Beenleigh.

Made a bit of a boo-boo.  Two trains are in the single track near Coomera for 1 minute.  And you can't re-time without having tighter than 3 minute headways in the CBD.  I think this can only be done with the trimming of a bit of fat.  Trimming fat north of Coomera actually makes the conflict worse.  You could mess with the line pairings so that the Airport line single track isn't a constraint, but not likely to happen.

I think we should stick with the 4tph to Kuraby idea.  It is more likely to be done.

So no zone operation / express then?

[somebody]

Wasn't there a delay issue there with that (15 minutes to Kuraby?)

An additional cross over would sort that issue.

So no zone operation / express then?

Pre-CRR?  I'm afraid not.  It's a far bigger priority IPS-CAB and not in the draft timetable.

However, it is likely that the appropriate crossover location for 4tph Kuraby would also allow the tiered service post-CRR.  That was my main concern about the plan.

EDIT: fix quotes

[petey3801]

Made a bit of a boo-boo.  Two trains are in the single track near Coomera for 1 minute.  

Easy fix... Get the outbound train to hold at Coomera for an extra couple minutes and cut the turnaround time at Varsity down by 2 mins.


As for a crossover Salisbury #1 - Coopers #2, there already is one. Problem is it's slow, 25km/h and is close to Salisbury (takes trains from Salisbury #1 to Acacia Ridge [via a second xover] or along the Down Main).

[somebody]

As for a crossover Salisbury #1 - Coopers #2, there already is one. Problem is it's slow, 25km/h and is close to Salisbury (takes trains from Salisbury #1 to Acacia Ridge [via a second xover] or along the Down Main).

Cool!  Wasn't sure if that was a diamond cross of the middle track, or two distinct cross overs.  Would the signaling support approaching Coopers Plains #2 via this crossover?

I don't think the 25km/h is a show stopper.  >15tph in the peak direction use a similar set of cross overs near Macdonaldtown in Sydney.

[ClintonL94]

If you take a look at the Gold Coast Timetable where there is approximately 15 minutes each way..

Domestic Airport   :16:48        Domestic Airport   :17:02     Varsity Lakes       :17:59        Varsity Lakes        :18:18
Eagle Junction      :16:59        Eagle Junction      :17:13     Helensvale          :18:19        Helensvale            :18:34
Roma Street         :17:14        Roma Street        :17:27     Coomera             :18:25        Coomera              :18:40
South Bank          :17:23        South Bank          :17:36     Beenleigh            :18:38        Beenleigh             :18:53
EXP(Kuraby)approx:17:45        EXP(Kuraby)approx:17:58    EXP(Kuraby)approx:18:53        EXP(Kuraby)approx:19:08
Beenleigh             :18:00        Beenleigh             :18:13    South Bank          :19:14        South Bank           :19:29
Coomera              :18:13        Coomera              :18:26    Roma Street         :19:20        Roma Street         :19:35
Helensvale           :18:19         Helensvale           :18:32    Eagle Junction      :19:37        Bowen Hills           :19:46
Varsity Lakes       :18:35         Varsity Lakes        :18:48    Domestic Airport   :19:49       

My point of view shows that according to the timetable 15 minutes is possible on the edge of afternoon peak with 30 minutes frequency on the Beenleigh Line too.

[somebody]

Maybe an option would be to have the Coasties serve Yeerongpilly again rather than Coopers Plains.  That would also make it less tight, and is a whole lot better than a dwell at Coomera.

Can I ask why everyone is so much more interested in this on the Beenleigh line as compared to the Caboolture line?  I started a thread a few weeks ago here: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5431.0 and no one replied.

If Petrie is to be given a 15 minute service, I would argue that it would be superior to the Caboolture extension to have a 30 minute service, with limited stops to Petrie.  It may also be possible to extend the 30 minute service to Landsborough with a cross at Beerwah or Glass House Mountains.

If you take a look at the Gold Coast Timetable where there is approximately 15 minutes each way..

Domestic Airport   :16:48        Domestic Airport   :17:02     Varsity Lakes       :17:59        Varsity Lakes        :18:18
Eagle Junction      :16:59        Eagle Junction      :17:13     Helensvale          :18:19        Helensvale            :18:34
Roma Street         :17:14        Roma Street        :17:27     Coomera             :18:25        Coomera              :18:40
South Bank          :17:23        South Bank          :17:36     Beenleigh            :18:38        Beenleigh             :18:53
EXP(Kuraby)approx:17:45        EXP(Kuraby)approx:17:58    EXP(Kuraby)approx:18:53        EXP(Kuraby)approx:19:08
Beenleigh             :18:00        Beenleigh             :18:13    South Bank          :19:14        South Bank           :19:29
Coomera              :18:13        Coomera              :18:26    Roma Street         :19:20        Roma Street         :19:35
Helensvale           :18:19         Helensvale           :18:32    Eagle Junction      :19:37        Bowen Hills           :19:46
Varsity Lakes       :18:35         Varsity Lakes        :18:48    Domestic Airport   :19:49       

My point of view shows that according to the timetable 15 minutes is possible on the edge of afternoon peak with 30 minutes frequency on the Beenleigh Line too.

Are you trying to say that they can run a 15 minute service in peak, so why can't they in off peak?  They don't run a 15 minute service in both directions in peak hour.

[#Metro]

I'm sure that both can be dealt with. Minister has indicated this is up next though.

[Arnz]

Alternatively, you can get rid of Coopers Plains in off-peak, and have the Gold Coasters stop all stations to Yeerongpilly.  It may slow down the coasties by 5 minutes, but it's a better utilisation of capacity, and even forms 15 min frequency from Dutton Park to Park Road (4 extra stops).  It would require synchronising the Beenleigh and Gold Coast trains to form the 15 minute frequency between Yeerongpilly and Dutton Park

If slowing down the interurbans for the Sunshine Coasters to better utilise inner capacity, I can't see why slowing down the Gold Coasters apply here, due to the CRR delays and the limited amount of paths over the Merivale bridge (having less crowded, but still fully seated GC trains go over the Merivale whilst crammed trains with standees from Beenleigh and Cleveland in the morning peak would be a waste of capacity).  In peak hour, coasties would stop at Yeerongpilly and Loganlea only (or stop all to Yeerongpilly, then express Yeerongpilly to Beenleigh).

Changing the Airtrain contract may either signoff by Airtrain, or the government overriding the contract so that Airport trains are split from GC and terminates at Roma Street (turns back at Platform 2 so to not block the other lines).

[ClintonL94]

Are you trying to say that they can run a 15 minute service in peak, so why can't they in off peak?  They don't run a 15 minute service in both directions in peak hour.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say. 15 minutes can be done in both directions for the Gold Coast line as proven in the timetable. They can in both peak and off peak.

If the Beenleigh line was to have a 15 minute frequency the whole way to Beenleigh. There'd need to be that third track to Kingston which was meant to start last year.

[Arnz]

Are you trying to say that they can run a 15 minute service in peak, so why can't they in off peak?  They don't run a 15 minute service in both directions in peak hour.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say. 15 minutes can be done in both directions for the Gold Coast line as proven in the timetable. They can in both peak and off peak.

If the Beenleigh line was to have a 15 minute frequency the whole way to Beenleigh. There'd need to be that third track to Kingston which was meant to start last year.

They've ran 15 minute expresses to/from GC (in both directions during peak) for the evening Gold Coast titans footy specials, yes it can happen, however from past personal reports, it delays some outbound Beenleigh trains by a few minutes (red signals due to expresses).

[somebody]

If you take a look at the Gold Coast Timetable where there is approximately 15 minutes each way..

Domestic Airport   :16:48        Domestic Airport   :17:02     Varsity Lakes       :17:59        Varsity Lakes        :18:18
Eagle Junction      :16:59        Eagle Junction      :17:13     Helensvale          :18:19        Helensvale            :18:34
Roma Street         :17:14        Roma Street        :17:27     Coomera             :18:25        Coomera              :18:40
South Bank          :17:23        South Bank          :17:36     Beenleigh            :18:38        Beenleigh             :18:53
EXP(Kuraby)approx:17:45        EXP(Kuraby)approx:17:58    EXP(Kuraby)approx:18:53        EXP(Kuraby)approx:19:08
Beenleigh             :18:00        Beenleigh             :18:13    South Bank          :19:14        South Bank           :19:29
Coomera              :18:13        Coomera              :18:26    Roma Street         :19:20        Roma Street         :19:35
Helensvale           :18:19         Helensvale           :18:32    Eagle Junction      :19:37        Bowen Hills           :19:46
Varsity Lakes       :18:35         Varsity Lakes        :18:48    Domestic Airport   :19:49       

My point of view shows that according to the timetable 15 minutes is possible on the edge of afternoon peak with 30 minutes frequency on the Beenleigh Line too.

I see what you are saying now.  That third train must only just miss the 18:26 train from Beenleigh at Kuraby, and then use the DG, which would explain it not serving Park Rd.  I think you would find that would not be possible if 15 minute frequency heading south had not stopped by the time this train reaches Coopers Plains.  By approx 6:15pm at Coopers Plains, Gold Coast trains are only running at half hourly frequency southbound. 

This is really just AM peak operating patterns applying at 7pm.  Welcome to QLD.

Alternatively, you can get rid of Coopers Plains in off-peak, and have the Gold Coasters stop all stations to Yeerongpilly.  It may slow down the coasties by 5 minutes, but it's a better utilisation of capacity, and even forms 15 min frequency from Dutton Park to Park Road (4 extra stops).  It would require synchronising the Beenleigh and Gold Coast trains to form the 15 minute frequency between Yeerongpilly and Dutton Park

If slowing down the interurbans for the Sunshine Coasters to better utilise inner capacity, I can't see why slowing down the Gold Coasters apply here, due to the CRR delays and the limited amount of paths over the Merivale bridge (having less crowded, but still fully seated GC trains go over the Merivale whilst crammed trains with standees from Beenleigh and Cleveland in the morning peak would be a waste of capacity).  In peak hour, coasties would stop at Yeerongpilly and Loganlea only (or stop all to Yeerongpilly, then express Yeerongpilly to Beenleigh).

Changing the Airtrain contract may either signoff by Airtrain, or the government overriding the contract so that Airport trains are split from GC and terminates at Roma Street (turns back at Platform 2 so to not block the other lines).

I see where you are coming from, but it seems that the political clout they wield makes this idea a non starter. 

The other thing which also makes it a non starter is the retiming would also result in the Coastie catching up to the Beenleigh train.  The Coastie needs to be almost directly after the Beenleigh train to not catch it.

As for serving Yeerongpilly, that's also not possible due to the lack of a platform on the DG.

As for the government overriding the contract, if you saw "The Castle" you should know that the government would have to provide compensation in some way if the agreement is to be compulsarily changed.  That one is not impossible though.

[somebody]

If the Beenleigh line was to have a 15 minute frequency the whole way to Beenleigh. There'd need to be that third track to Kingston which was meant to start last year.

That is needed if you want to increase peak frequency to 10 minutes, together with the Coomera-Helensvale duplication.  I'm not so sure about 15 minute bi-di frequency GC/BNH.  Not ruling it out though.

They've ran 15 minute expresses to/from GC (in both directions during peak) for the evening Gold Coast titans footy specials, yes it can happen, however from past personal reports, it delays some outbound Beenleigh trains by a few minutes (red signals due to expresses).

What do you mean?  If they are heading to the Titan's stadium, wouldn't that be southbound in the PM peak, i.e. the peak direction?

Maybe you are thinking of northbound via Tennyson to Milton and Suncorp Stadium.  That reduces, but doesn't eliminate, the effect of the conflicts.  Not sure what the earliest time this could be done is.

[ClintonL94]

I agree with somebody about the Gold Coast line being 'improved' during peak.

How exactly can there be more services without the train capacity at Robina Yard? Send specials from Mayne? Or even Beenleigh with it's upgraded yard which would be highly unlikely.

[#Metro]

This is that question that has a murky answer.. is it possible? not possible? maybe possible?

How far down the beenleigh line is 15 minute frequency possible?

http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4506.0

[Arnz]

What do you mean?  If they are heading to the Titan's stadium, wouldn't that be southbound in the PM peak, i.e. the peak direction?

Maybe you are thinking of northbound via Tennyson to Milton and Suncorp Stadium.  That reduces, but doesn't eliminate, the effect of the conflicts.  Not sure what the earliest time this could be done is.

Sorry I meant outbound to Beenleigh (peak direction Beenleigh trains waiting at red signals for Footy Special trains from the GC to pass them on their way to Milton).

[somebody]

What do you mean?  If they are heading to the Titan's stadium, wouldn't that be southbound in the PM peak, i.e. the peak direction?

Maybe you are thinking of northbound via Tennyson to Milton and Suncorp Stadium.  That reduces, but doesn't eliminate, the effect of the conflicts.  Not sure what the earliest time this could be done is.

Sorry I meant outbound to Beenleigh (peak direction Beenleigh trains waiting at red signals for Footy Special trains from the GC to pass them on their way to Milton).

I'm still confused.  Outbound trains to Beenleigh wouldn't conflict with these trains at all.  Unless trains have to wait for other trains to reverse at Kuraby.

[david]

Can I ask why everyone is so much more interested in this on the Beenleigh line as compared to the Caboolture line?

I think it's because there aren't as many variables on the Beenleigh/Gold Coast line - i.e. single-track sections, freight traffic.
The Caboolture line is much harder to timetable for due to all of that freight traffic, Traveltrain services, etc.
But I think many of the members have given timetabling of the Caboolture line a really good shot. Personally, I'd leave it to the experts. It's in the "too hard" basket for an amateur like me.

This is that question that has a murky answer.. is it possible? not possible? maybe possible?

How far down the beenleigh line is 15 minute frequency possible?

http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4506.0

I put up a suggestion there which I thought most people agreed with? In summary, I thought that every 15 mins all the way down to Beenleigh would be possible during off-peak only.

[#Metro]

In that case, I would also say 15 minute off-peak would be possible all the way to Beenleigh.

Here's my thinking:

Beenleigh/GC bound

GC trains retain departures at :24 and :54 at Central
Beenleigh trains depart :01 :16 :31 :46

The Beenleigh and GC trains would both use the UP road until after Salisbury, where the GC trains use DOWN (Beenleigh stays on UP)

The GC trains would pass the :16 and :46 Beenleigh trains somewhere around Coopers Plains and arrive at Beenleigh 6 minutes after the :01 and :31 trains

City-bound services

Beenleigh services depart at :00 :15 :30 :45
GC services depart Beenleigh at :57 and :27 (depart Varsity Lakes at :22 and :52 respectively)

Both trains remain on the Third Road from Kuraby to Coopers Plains
- Beenleigh trains cross to the DOWN after Coopers Plains
(I may need to do more investigation to ensure the Beenleigh-City train doesn't clash with the GC-bound trains also using the DOWN between Salisbury and Coopers Plains - from what I have, this is not the case)
- GC remains on the Third Road all the way to South Brisbane. (Passes the :15 and :45 Beeneigh-City services just before Rocklea)

Was it this one? 

[somebody]

Unrelated gripe: What is with the part where the points are not located adjacent to the stations?

If the cross over is in place already between Salisbury & Coopers Plains, I think that changes what should be the plan substantially. 

Poll here: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5574.msg50024#new

[#Metro]

All trains must stop at Park Road station!

[somebody]

All trains must stop at Park Road station!

I for one am not that concerned that peak direction coasties cannot serve Park Rd.

[colinw]

All trains must stop at Park Road station!

I for one am not that concerned that peak direction coasties cannot serve Park Rd.

The only downside of not stopping at Park Rd is that it takes away an easy interchange to UQ and the P.A. Hospital, but I am not sure if that is a major market for the GC trains.  Unless Park Rd platform 4 can be made safe & usable, I agree with you.

[Golliwog]

But even then, its not hard to get off the train at South Bank and change to a 109 there to get to UQ/PA Hospital.

[#Metro]

I was thinking more along the lines of adding an extra stop to slow the train down slightly so that 15 min frequency is easier. Not sure if this helps.
The other reasons are access to UQ, Cleveland lines and the Eastern Busway.

[somebody]

I'm thinking about the possibility of utilising the DG in my proposal for the northbound trains through Salisbury full time and the crossover south of Yeerongpilly, as this would make my proposal have a more acceptable level of operating margin. The only time there would be an issue is when a southbound SG train wants to run to Acacia Ridge.  Obviously, when this needs to be done, northbound trains cannot pass Salisbury on the DG.

My proposal in this instance would be that the northbound all stopper from Coopers Plains is simply held for a few minutes at Coopers Plains to allow the train to pass.  Maybe this would require an Act of Parliament re: freight priority, although that does seem a bit over the top.  The current practice where passenger trains aren't run as they might hold up a freight train needs to change though, far better to have a delayed train than no train.

The other alternative is that the northbound train starting at Coopers Plains from platform #2 wrong roads through Salisbury #1 (the southbound platform) and then uses the crossover on the south side of Rocklea.  Would this be signaled and wired?  Given that this occurs less often than daily AIUI, I think such a dodgy arrangement would be acceptable.  Perhaps the SG trains can also operate when CityTrain doesn't, but perhaps not.

EDIT: Here's the timetable for this, seems to work out pretty well:

Domestic Airport	:00		:15		:30		:45
International Airport	:03		:18		:33		:48
Eagle Junction	:11		:26		:31		:56
Ferny Grove		:58		:13		:28		:43
Keperra		:01		:16		:31		:46
Bowen Hills	:18	:21	:33	:36	:48	:51	:03	:06
Park Rd	:39	:42	:54	:57	:09	:12	:24	:27
Pattern	Express	All Stops	Express	All Stops	Express	All Stops	Express	All Stops
Coopers Plains	:47	:59	:02	:14	:17	:29	:32	:44
Pattern	Loganlea only		All Stops		Loganlea only		All Stops
Beenleigh	:12		:35		:42		:05
Coomera	:25				:55
Helensvale	:31				:01
Varsity Lakes	:47				:17
-
Varsity Lakes	:02				:32
Helensvale	:18				:53
Coomera	:24				:55
Beenleigh	:37		:42		:07		:13
Pattern	Loganlea only		All Stops		Loganlea only		All Stops
Coopers Plains	:01	:03	:16	:18	:31	:33	:46	:48
Pattern	Express	All Stops	Express	All Stops	Express	All Stops	Express	All Stops
Park Rd	:10	:20	:25	:35	:40	:50	:55	:05
Bowen Hills	:29	:39	:44	:54	:59	:09	:14	:24
Keperra		:01		:16		:31		:46
Ferny Grove		:06		:21		:36		:51
Eagle Junction	:36		:51		:06		:21
International Airport	:44		:59		:14		:29
Domestic Airport	:48		:03		:18		:33

Downsides:
1) Requires a dodgy cross at Keperra until this is duplicated to Ferny Grove.  I don't really think this is much of a problem.
2) When the SG track needs to be used southbound there is no operating margin.  Delays in northbound trains from Beenleigh or the Gold Coast will also delay the Coopers Plains starting all stopper.  I see this as a very minor problem.
3) Low level of operating margin at Coomera

Upsides:
1) 15 minute frequency to Coopers Plains
2) Faster services to Beenleigh south of Coopers Plains
3) Greater level of operating margin at International as compared to current arrangements

I think it works.  I wonder what stephenk would say.  It is nowhere near as complicated as something which CityRail would do.

It's also pretty attractive for Airtrain, as Beenlieigh line people south of Coopers Plains now have a single seat connection.  They feel this is important, and it is to some people.  The Roma St terminators were never good for them.