Train Upgrade Zone (TUZ)

[ozbob]

Thanks to tramtrain for this image

[#Metro]

Thanks!

If TL won't advertise, advertise it yourself!

BRING ON THE TUZ!!!  
(NB: Times are for the draft timetable, but it will work with the current one too).

[colinw]

Only problem - and this is probably a nitpick - is that TUZ doesn't have the same ring as BUZ.  Need a better term.  Hmmm..

"Fast track" - no, implies express service..

Some sort of term that focuses attention on THE STATION with the high service frequency perhaps?

"Frequent Service Station".

Dunno - not good at this kind of marketing type stuff.

Ideas?

[#Metro]

When I first saw BUZ, I thought "what is that, they spelt it wrong!".

TUZ will work.
Everyone knows what BUZ is, TUZ is just the train version.

Sure better than Adelaide "GO zones", bleh!!

The only other branding would be Metro, but that is the worst name I think, totally made meaningless now.

The BUZ services are also technically routes, not zones. Adelaides's Go Zones are Zones, not routes...
Go figure!

Premium Frequent
Blue Frequent
Frequent Network
CORE FREQUENT

TUZ- i like it.

[ozbob]

I luv T U Z

[#Metro]

Yes, I can see it in advertisements:

---

Office worker at water cooler: "I was stuck on Coronation Drive, it's horrible."
Office worker 2: "TUZ"

Office worker 1: "Tough?"
Office worker 2: "No, TUZ- Train Upgrade Zones, it's just like a metro- every 15 minutes and more frequent at all other times, 7 days a week".

Office worker 1: "Oh"
Office worker 2: "Yeah, there's a train every 4 minutes at Indooroopilly in peak hour; just catch your local feeder bus there"

Government voiceover: TRAIN UPGRADE ZONES, JUST LIKE A METRO, VISIT TRANSLINK.COM.AU/TUZ FOR DETAILS

ENDS
---

If TransLink can't promote this, I wonder, how well would they fare promoting the proverbial chook raffle???

[colinw]

Fair enough.

Shame about the TDZ on the Sunshine Coast Line 'though.

[ozbob]

   shouldn't laugh though, it is our mission, should you choose to accept, to turn TDZ to TUZ !

[colinw]

This timetable will self destruct in 10 seconds.

[#Metro]

The image is Creative Commons, so you can print it out, share it, post it on your facebook, whatever.

TransLink really should get something like this made up, quickly. It only took me an hour to make something like
that using basic program that every computer has- paint.

Don't they want more customers on the trains?

[colinw]

Don't they want more customers on the trains?

No.  That then requires more services to be provided and more money to be spent.  That is why even the Conn'ing QLD 2031 documents set absurdly low patronage targets that assume most of Brisbane will still be sitting in their cars.

Upgrading services induces demand, which then requires more money to be spent to cope with the demand.  In Queensland that is only permissible in road planning, and must be avoided in the public transport system at all costs.

[#Metro]

 Get customers on there and get them paying!!!

REVENUE
MONEY
BETTER FAREBOX
MORE CUSTOMERS
ESCAPE CONGESTION
HAPPY PEOPLE
$$$$

[#Metro]

I caught a train from Bowen Hills yesterday morning, just after peak.

As I walked down the stairs, a train pulled away, but a few minutes later, another one pulled up. Got a nice comfy seat, airy carriage and very quick comfortable trip.

There is no reason why something like this can't be rolled out all over Brisbane on current infrastructure where such infrastructure permits it. There is no reason
why stations which are already RRT standards can't be branded this way. We must make better use of the existing infrastructure we have before going off and spending
billions on the new, sexiest infrastructure and waiting decades for it. This can be done NOW! Fix up the current system, make it frequent, make it high capacity and roll it out all over SEQ.

[Golliwog]

Once the Keperra-FG duplication is complete I can see the FG line being easily TUZ. With the duplication done there's little reason for express services as they only save a few minutes (theres one in the timetable in the evening peak that shaves a massive 1 minute off the time to FG) and would waste track capacity. My understanding is they currently exist as there was some demand for them, but it eased some of the pressures on the single track section by having Mitchie starters.

Back to my point, once its duplicated all the way and trains run all stations to FG, theres little point in running out to FG in the morning and back in the evening out of service to start peak runs as they'll just end up stuck behind the in service train.

[#Metro]

Exciting isn't it Golliwog? How long until the duplication finishes?
TUZ it!!!

You don't really have much storage space on the FG line do you? Would it be necessary??

[mufreight]

Once the Keperra-FG duplication is complete I can see the FG line being easily TUZ. With the duplication done there's little reason for express services as they only save a few minutes (theres one in the timetable in the evening peak that shaves a massive 1 minute off the time to FG) and would waste track capacity. My understanding is they currently exist as there was some demand for them, but it eased some of the pressures on the single track section by having Mitchie starters.

Back to my point, once its duplicated all the way and trains run all stations to FG, theres little point in running out to FG in the morning and back in the evening out of service to start peak runs as they'll just end up stuck behind the in service train.

So we spend a quite considerable amount on increasing the capacity of the line between FG and Bowen Hills then not have the train paths avaliable for additional services that you are proposing through the CBD, brilliant.

[Golliwog]

Mufreight, they already go through the city but currently run as out of service to/from (depends which peak you're in) Bowen Hills.

TT, last I heard was early 2012 for the duplication. There was a notice on my car this evening saying the 14th is when they close another section of the carpark to start construction of the temporary platform. Theres also a track closure planned for the 18th which TL says is for reballasting parts of the track and reballasting and re-railing the Mayne overpass. It could be that this is when they switch over to the temporary platform, who knows.

[colinw]

I think Mufreight is referring to the fact that FG is getting full duplication, but because it is paired with the southside via Merivale Bridge, it cannot possibly be run to full capacity until CRR is built.  Is that what you were getting at Mu?

[mufreight]

I think Mufreight is referring to the fact that FG is getting full duplication, but because it is paired with the southside via Merivale Bridge, it cannot possibly be run to full capacity until CRR is built.  Is that what you were getting at Mu?

Part of the story most definately, but the restriction of capacity through the CBD itself moreso.  The flat junction arangements to get trains from one route to another also imposes constraints which CRR would have relieved to some degree, the bottom line being that none of these perifial works ( including Sandgate - Shorncliffe, Darra - Richlands) can be fully utilised until there is increased capacity through the CBD.

[BrizCommuter]

I think Mufreight is referring to the fact that FG is getting full duplication, but because it is paired with the southside via Merivale Bridge, it cannot possibly be run to full capacity until CRR is built.  Is that what you were getting at Mu?

It is unlikely that even with the duplication, the FG Line will not be able to handle more than around 8tph during the peaks until CRR due to lack of track capacity through the CBD. However, with sensible timetabling i.e. making all trains all stations, there would be considerable peak improvements - see below.

Current am peak (trains arriving Central 07:30-08:29am)
from Ferny Grove to Oxford Park - 5tph
from Mitchelton to Enoggera - 7tph
from Alderley to Windsor - 6tph

Current pm peak (trains departing Central 04:30-05:29pm)
to Windsor to Gaythorne) - 4tph (note: Enoggera, Gaythorne, and Mitchelton had 7tph before March 2008!)
to Mitchelton - 6tph
to Ferny Grove - 5tph

BrizCommuter will not be amused if expresses and Mitchelton reversers still exist after the duplication!

There are no infrastructure or track capacity limitations on the FG Line or through the CBD to prevent 4tph off-peak.

[#Metro]

Ok, who is up for Train Upgrade Zones (TUZ) on the Ferny Grove Line?  

The problem is Beenleigh line pairing- if the trains every 15 minutes continue over to the Beenleigh Line in the off-peak then we have a problem as 15 min service in both directions at the same time is not possible there, no?

Alternative might be to send half those trains to Tennyson to terminate and then turnback???

Ideas here???

[mufreight]

Ok, who is up for Train Upgrade Zones (TUZ) on the Ferny Grove Line?   

The problem is Beenleigh line pairing- if the trains every 15 minutes continue over to the Beenleigh Line in the off-peak then we have a problem as 15 min service in both directions at the same time is not possible there, no?

Alternative might be to send half those trains to Tennyson to terminate and then turnback???

Ideas here???

They could go back to terminating services at Rocklea which is preferable to Tennyson from an operating perspective.

[#Metro]

Thanks for this mufreight, much appreciated.
There is a siding there, could be done up for minimal $ and put into operation.

Perhaps there could also be a bus connection to Garden city. The roads are very direct and grid-pattern, which is very helpful. There is the bus 116 Rocklea-City terminates around here- what use it is, I do not know. Maybe if you wanted to travel backwards to the rail station to catch the train (hardly seems likely) or make a counter peak travel to Beenleigh. More helpful might be a connection to Garden City or Sunnybank.

Given the area, and I know this sounds bad, but park and ride might be an idea to look at here, so long as they don't chew up the space for rail.

The difference between ordinary train stations and TUZ:

* Branding
* "No-compromise timetable- minimum 15 minute frequency in both directions 6am-11pm"
* High quality Feeder BUZ bus connections and interchange opportunity (note bus does not need to be dedicated, although desired, i.e. doesn't need to terminate there but at least needs to pull up near the thing)

[mufreight]

Thanks for this mufreight, much appreciated.
There is a siding there, could be done up for minimal $ and put into operation.

Perhaps there could also be a bus connection to Garden city. The roads are very direct and grid-pattern, which is very helpful. There is the bus 116 Rocklea-City terminates around here- what use it is, I do not know. Maybe if you wanted to travel backwards to the rail station to catch the train (hardly seems likely) or make a counter peak travel to Beenleigh. More helpful might be a connection to Garden City or Sunnybank.

Given the area, and I know this sounds bad, but park and ride might be an idea to look at here, so long as they don't chew up the space for rail.

The difference between ordinary train stations and TUZ:

* Branding
* "No-compromise timetable- minimum 15 minute frequency in both directions 6am-11pm"
* High quality Feeder BUZ bus connections and interchange opportunity (note bus does not need to be dedicated, although desired, i.e. doesn't need to terminate there but at least needs to pull up near the thing)

Last time I looked the siding was still wired for use as a turnback so no expense required unless they put a platform in for the crews to change ends , third to fourth car on the siding

[#Metro]

Thank you mufreight!, this is very helpful.
A TUZ near your house!!!

[colinw]

Last time I looked the siding was still wired for use as a turnback so no expense required unless they put a platform in for the crews to change ends , third to fourth car on the siding

Yes, that siding is still wired, and is long enough to turn back a 6 car train.  It is actually a truncation of the former freight siding into Evans Deakin, etc.  You can see the 3'6" gauge track still in the road here where it continued over Railway Parade & Beaudesert Rd parallel to the standard gauge siding.

There is actually sufficient space there to extend the siding to 12 car length if necessary, i.e. hold a 2nd train or even some small scale stabling.

Out-there idea: rather than Rocklea, what about extending a few more km and building the first tiny section of the future Browns Plains line as far as a terminating station and park & ride here at Acacia Ridge, beneath the Beaudesert Road underpass?  There is a precedent - the single station Thornlie spur in Perth branches of a passenger line to run in the corridor of a very busy dual gauge freight line, maybe the same thing would work at Acacia Ridge.  A station at this location is already proposed for the eventual Flagstone line, so it fits in with Connecting SEQ 2031. Rather than terminating trains at Rocklea why not put a park & ride at Acacia Ridge, and the feed it with buses from Browns Plains, Algester, Parkinson direct along Beaudesert Rd.

[Stillwater]

A brilliant idea.  Small stuff like this, still with a bigger poicture in mind, is where things should be heading right now.  This suggestion is in keeping with the idea of building short deviations on the SCL, along the proposed new alignment, ahead of full duplication there.  Baby steps are good.

[#Metro]

Yes, that siding is still wired, and is long enough to turn back a 6 car train.  It is actually a truncation of the former freight siding into Evans Deakin, etc.  You can see the 3'6" gauge track still in the road here where it continued over Railway Parade & Beaudesert Rd parallel to the standard gauge siding.

It could be some nice stabling space in the future there, if that siding could be acquired.

There is actually sufficient space there to extend the siding to 12 car length if necessary, i.e. hold a 2nd train or even some small scale stabling.

Excellent.  

Out-there idea: rather than Rocklea, what about extending a few more km and building the first tiny section of the future Browns Plains line as far as a terminating station and park & ride here at Acacia Ridge, beneath the Beaudesert Road underpass?  There is a precedent - the single station Thornlie spur in Perth branches of a passenger line to run in the corridor of a very busy dual gauge freight line, maybe the same thing would work at Acacia Ridge.  A station at this location is already proposed for the eventual Flagstone line, so it fits in with Connecting SEQ 2031. Rather than terminating trains at Rocklea why not put a park & ride at Acacia Ridge, and the feed it with buses from Browns Plains, Algester, Parkinson direct along Beaudesert Rd.

This seems like a reasonable idea. It could be flagged as a future incremental upgrade.
This would see 2tph from the Gold Coast, 2tph from Beenleigh and 2tph from Acacia Ridge Park and Ride in the off peak.

In peak hour you may have to terminate the train and do a shuttle as train paths over the Merivale st bridge will be limited. However, there are international precedents for this train-train interchange system, so it is not that big a deal. It is a 50% solution, but it is still better than a 0% solution

There are two conditions to TUZ for now- the absolute bare minimum:
1. It must not require any new trains
2. It must run on current infrastructure and not require any new major infrastructure (so a new bus stop J pole is ok, but a new station or platform or track duplication would not).

[colinw]

There are two conditions to TUZ for now- the absolute bare minimum:
1. It must not require any new trains
2. It must run on current infrastructure and not require any new major infrastructure (so a new bus stop J pole is ok, but a new station or platform or track duplication would not).

Mufreight's Rocklea terminator idea is viable right now.  The siding / turnback is there and electrified, and the crossover to support it is also present.

[#Metro]

Excellent. Into the mix it will go!

[somebody]

Out-there idea: rather than Rocklea, what about extending a few more km and building the first tiny section of the future Browns Plains line as far as a terminating station and park & ride here at Acacia Ridge, beneath the Beaudesert Road underpass?  There is a precedent - the single station Thornlie spur in Perth branches of a passenger line to run in the corridor of a very busy dual gauge freight line, maybe the same thing would work at Acacia Ridge.  A station at this location is already proposed for the eventual Flagstone line, so it fits in with Connecting SEQ 2031. Rather than terminating trains at Rocklea why not put a park & ride at Acacia Ridge, and the feed it with buses from Browns Plains, Algester, Parkinson direct along Beaudesert Rd.

I'd rather go the whole hog and extend to Kuraby.  Which ties in with current timetables/running times.  What I mean by that is if current dwells are maintained at Beenleigh, a reasonable dwell at Kuraby would also apply.

So we spend a quite considerable amount on increasing the capacity of the line between FG and Bowen Hills then not have the train paths avaliable for additional services that you are proposing through the CBD, brilliant.

The NSW opposition look like winning an election next month with a plan to do precisely that!  And that's talking about an $8bn+ project rather the small beer we are talking about here.

I'm not sure what you are referring to in your flat junctions comment though, these do not apply to the Ferny Grove line, at least on sensible operating patterns, unless you mean on the far side of the CBD.

BrizCommuter will not be amused if expresses and Mitchelton reversers still exist after the duplication!

To be honest, I wouldn't be amused either.  The whole point of the full duplication is to allow 8tph to Ferny Grove, not improve reliability.

[#Metro]

I'd rather go the whole hog and extend to Kuraby.  Which ties in with current timetables/running times.  What I mean by that is if current dwells are maintained at Beenleigh, a reasonable dwell at Kuraby would also apply.

I know I have asked a curly question before:  How far down the Beenleigh line is 15 minute frequency possible.
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4506.0

There were many answers like:

* All the way to Beenleigh
* Only to Kuraby (with impact on the GC line)
* To Kingston/Kuraby with a cross-osver

Technically, you are correct but that would have a major impact on the Gold Coast line.  15 minute frequency to Kuraby is possible with some impact on the Gold Coast line.  Other than that, you would need to use the Rocklea siding or Tennyson loop.

So there wasn't a clear answer. 

Personally I feel that if it involves a cross-over installation, then that does not meet the no-new infrastructure test. We could certainly flag it as an option in the future. The delay of a GC train at Kuraby or elsewhere (Yeerongpilly) might be possible but not sure how acceptable that might be. So it might be an option too.
   

[somebody]

Personally I feel that if it involves a cross-over installation, then that does not meet the no-new infrastructure test. We could certainly flag it as an option in the future. The delay of a GC train at Kuraby or elsewhere (Yeerongpilly) might be possible but not sure how acceptable that might be. So it might be an option too.

I agree, but it seems that we can't even get a reasonable train frequency in places where it could be easily done. They don't feel like adding 15 minute frequency even to Petrie. 

It's not good enough.  It seems like the answer is that if you don't like it, don't live here.

[#Metro]

I share your pain. I am often subjected to torturous waits of up to half an hour, heaven help the person who must make a connection at Roma Street!

I've said this many times before. Our state has entire offices and planners and whatnot all scratching their heads about "why don't people catch public transport" and "why is our mode share so low". I have heard all sorts of bizzare reasons from all corners.

People are rational. Public Transport must offer a quality "product" if it wants to get more "customers" and their money in farebox revenue. Unfortunately "rotten apple" service frequency is what they are served up, so who can blame the customer when they get up and shun the service and go to the competition- The Car? That's no way to run a business. That's how you send a business operation bankrupt! No wonder the subsidy levels are so mind-bogglingly high and our farebox ratios are some of the worst on Earth.

If I had to wait 30 minutes for my car's ignition to start, I would be dumping travel by car too!
It doesn't take a genius to see what the problem is. It is no good governments preaching about the virtues of emissions or sustainability or health with regards to public transport. How are people to use it if the service is virtually non-existent and there is no way to take them from their front door to the train station?

The good news is that this can be turned around. BUZ shows the way and Rail must follow.

[FrequencyCrusader]

Instead of TUZ, how about:

Frequency
Upgrade
Zone

aka FUZ! 

It could be used for any mode (train, ferry, non-BCC bus). You could even add "High Occupancy Transit" to the start and get "HOT FUZ!" 

Some great suggestions have been coming from this thread- more suggestions and solutions, and less moaning about CRR = 

[Golliwog]

Just so people know where I stand, I think the idea to start the line to Flagstone, even as just a 1 station line to Acacia Ridge is a good one. I see it as the same as Richlands, but on the Beenleigh line. I do see the financial cost of it, and it's not going to be cheap, but in the scheme of things, it won't be massive either. I can see it working nicely too with post CRR operations (eg: Ferny Grove to Acacia Ridge with the remaining Beenleigh line and GC line using the tunnel). But I agree, if the money isn't available then using the siding at Rocklea would be fine, or equally at this stage going to Kuraby and adding 4 minutes to the GC trains.

[Arnz]

Alternatively you could probably slow down the off-peak/weekend Gold Coasters to stop all stations from Yeerongpilly onwards to form the 15 min frequency from there. At most it'll slow down GC trains between 5-8 minutes.

Airport trains may as well stop/call in at Albion and Eagle Junction on the suburbans.  Which would form 15 min frequencies on both the mains + subs up to Eagle Junction.  

This would also allowing peak passenger pick ups for Albion & Wooloowin, as it would at least make room available for inner suburban passengers, and would be a better use of capacity.  As opposed to empty Airport trains running almost empty through the inner suburban stations.

[#Metro]

That's an interesting idea. The Gold Coasters will protest it though just like Sunshine Coasters have, and I can understand why- they are so far away they don't want any extra minutes added to their timetable. On the other hand, due to the lack of train paths in 2016 crossing the merivale bridge, whoever has the unenviable job of doing up that timetable may find their hand forced out of pure necessity (unless running via Tennyson is adopted, and that's not exactly attractive to do either).

Arnz, I actually agree about the Airtrain, it is only two stations there seems to be only marginal gains from that. In fact, the last time I was on the Airtrain, I the train I was in was stopped at signals BOTH on the way to the Airport and also from the airport, waiting for the signals to clear. May as well have used that time to do stop at those stations.

I don't know what the Airtrain contract says though, I wonder if they can do it?

[#Metro]

Alternatively you could probably slow down the off-peak/weekend Gold Coasters to stop all stations from Yeerongpilly onwards to form the 15 min frequency from there. At most it'll slow down GC trains between 5-8 minutes.

Yes, I guess this is possible but I think Airtrain will scream if the GC train is delayed by 5-8 minutes. It might be on the public network, but the train times will impact their business directly if the GC line is slowed down by that much. Stopping at the 2 inner city stations will work though, nicely IMHO.

[somebody]

If I were Airtrain, I'd be *VERY* reluctant to have my trains serving Albion and Wooloowin.  I'd far rather a consistent service, which at least makes some pretension to being a premium service.  I'd want a big discount to agree to that.

Just so people know where I stand, I think the idea to start the line to Flagstone, even as just a 1 station line to Acacia Ridge is a good one. I see it as the same as Richlands, but on the Beenleigh line. I do see the financial cost of it, and it's not going to be cheap, but in the scheme of things, it won't be massive either. I can see it working nicely too with post CRR operations (eg: Ferny Grove to Acacia Ridge with the remaining Beenleigh line and GC line using the tunnel). But I agree, if the money isn't available then using the siding at Rocklea would be fine, or equally at this stage going to Kuraby and adding 4 minutes to the GC trains.

I'm not a fan of one station branches, unless they allow for a tiered service.  I don't see your suggestion here helping too much with that, I'm afraid.  Also, what are you doing about peak paths over the Merivale bridge?  4tph All to Acacia Ridge + 4tph express Park Rd to Salisbury, then all to Beenleigh.  Seems to be the only reasonable solution I could see, but loadings in the 2009 survey are split ~2200 Dutton Park/Salisbury, ~4700 Coopers Plains/Holmview