Sunlander to be replaced with another Tilt

[colinw]

It looks like the Sunlander's long run is to end, replaced with another Cairns Tilt set and upgrades to the existing sets, giving 6 days a week tilt service including sleeping & dining cars.

I wonder what the future holds for the remaining loco hauled trains - Westlander, Spirit of the Outback & Inlander.

QLD Goverment Release: World class trains for Queensland supporting 800 jobs for Maryborough - click here

Joint Statement:

Premier and Minister for the Arts
The Honourable Anna Bligh

Minister for Transport
The Honourable Rachel Nolan

Wednesday, October 27, 2010

World class trains for Queensland supporting 800 jobs for Maryborough

Premier Anna Bligh has announced the State Government will invest $189 million to buy another Tilt Train and upgrade the existing two tilt trains.

Ms Bligh said the work will be carried out at Maryborough's Downer EDI facility providing support for 800 direct and indirect jobs in the Wide Bay region.

The existing Sunlander Train, which has been in service for 45 years, will be replaced by the new Tilt Train, slashing at least five hours from travel times.

"Travelling the Brisbane to Cairns rail route is one of the world's top train journeys," said Ms Bligh.

"It takes you past the magnificent Glasshouse Mountains, the cane country of North Queensland and the majestic tropics beyond Townsville.

"This $189 million investment means passengers on this world class route will be able to travel in world class luxury."

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan said the new trains will feature:

• Deluxe sleeper cars with personal ensuites;
• First class cars with lay flat seats, similar to airline sky beds;
• A restaurant car with a la carte dining;
• Smart, flatscreen TVs in all seats featuring in-seat entertainment with movies, news, sport, weather and music on demand;
• First class café-style lounge;
• Premium economy sitting cars and club lounges.

"Awarding the $189 million contract to Maryborough's Downer EDI facility meant 500 direct jobs at the workshops plus an additional 300 jobs in the region," said the Minister.

"This new contract will sustain those jobs right through to 2014," she said.

Premier Bligh said the $189 million investment would contribute to improved services for the next half a century.

"The Tilt trains are the fastest trains in Australia," she said.

"They travel at speeds of up to 160 km an hour and this new train will cut at least five hours off the travel time on the entire route when travelling on the old Sunlander.

"It is because this Government has embarked on our program of assets sales that we can make this promise to Queenslanders," she said.

"It is because we have created a rail company that is completely dedicated to its passengers that we can deliver these focused improvements.

"This investment in the future of regional rail travel will allow us to continue to provide six return services between Brisbane and Cairns a week.

"It allows us to provide faster and more comfortable options for tourists and regional Queenslanders, for whom inter-city train travel is essential."

[ozbob]

Media Release 27 October 2010

Queensland:  Long distance passenger rail travel is a winner!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport users has congratulated the Queensland Government and Queensland Rail on their commitment to upgraded coastal long distance passenger train services, announced by the Premier in Parliament this morning.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Subsidies to Queensland Rail's long distance passenger trains are sensible and are of benefit to the whole community.  Support for the rural community by the Queensland Government in maintaining and improving these services is to be applauded.  It should also be noted that public transport in south-east Queensland is also heavily subsidised.  So is health, electricity, water, education and other transport modes.  Rarely is the true cost of road and air infrastructure, and their environmental penalties costed into those transport modes. If they were, they too would show distortions of cost and subsidies. The cost of road trauma is breaking our nation (1). Queensland is more than just the south-east! Rail subsidies are returned as broader economic benefits which is why the world and now Queensland is getting on with the rail revolution."

"Governments are there to support their communities. Governments lost the transport plot in the 1950s and until recently have lacked the long term vision of our pioneers who laid down our basic rail network.  For example, the myopia demonstrated when the Gold Coast and Tweed Heads railways were closed during the 1960s and right of way lost is now hitting home in exorbitant infrastructure costs to re-establish those lines."

"In twenty or thirty years it is highly likely that the only sustainable bulk transport mode will be rail.  Air and road will be subject to extreme fuel and environmental costs. Governments need to be thinking long term and therefore expanding and continuing support for rail networks.  Rail is the safe, sustainable and environmentally friendly transport solution for Queensland and the nation."

"The long distance passenger trains in Queensland are unique.  Providing a quality tourist travel experience they are also important transport communication links for many remote towns throughout Queensland. The Sunlander, the Spirit of the Outback, the Westlander, the Inlander and the Tilt Train services all value add to the economy of Queensland, directly and indirectly.  This was further reinforced with Queensland Rail's Traveltrain Holidays taking out the Major Tourist Attraction award at the 2008 Outback Queensland Tourism Awards (2)."

"That being said, modern tilt trains are a sensible option for reducing costs and improving the frequency, patronage and shortening the travel time. Improved marketing of these services is also needed."

"The aging Queensland Rail long distance passenger carriage fleet needs replacement. Consideration should also be given to other new diesel/hybrid multiple unit train sets besides the tilt trains for more local passenger services in Queensland (3). Regular commuter services could be introduced from places such as Gatton, Helidon, and eventually Toowoomba and similarly from Gympie North and Maryborough.  Apart from the coastal services more local rail services for major provincial cities in Queensland could also be achieved. Local commuter rail services could be established in places like Cairns and Townsville with a bit of vision (4)."

References:

1.   http://www.brisinst.org.au/here-and-now/october-2010-issue/7

2.   http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1510.0

3.   http://www.hitachi-rail.com/products/rolling_stock/hybrid/index.html

4.   http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4683.0

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

=============

Some earlier media releases on some relevance

29 May 2007: Queensland Long Distance Passenger Trains http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=113.0

27 Dec 2008: Queensland: Long distance rail travel is the future! http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1704.0

4 July 2009: Long distance rail travel is part of the sustainable transport ... http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2470.0

[ozbob]

From the Sydney Morning Herald click here!

Downer to build new Sunlander for Qld

Downer to build new Sunlander for Qld
October 27, 2010 - 12:14PM

AAP

Downer EDI Ltd has been awarded a $190 million contract to upgrade Queensland Rail's fleet of high-speed passenger tilt trains.

Downer EDI said on Wednesday the contract would lead to a new generation of tilt-trains in Queensland.

The new trains will run between Brisbane and Cairns by 2014, mirroring the luxuries of premium air travel, according to Queensland Premier Anna Bligh.

"Travelling north on the Sunlander is an iconic Queensland experience," Ms Bligh told parliament on Wednesday.

"That experience is about to get a whole lot better."

Under the contract, Downer will build a "next generation" diesel tilt train consisting of two power cars and twelve carriages.

Downer also will upgrade the existing two tilt trains - which it built at its Maryborough facility in the late 1990s - to include ten new carriages.

"The new rail vehicles will be delivered progressively from April 2013," Downer chief executive Grant Fenn said in a statement on Wednesday.

The fastest in Australia, running at up to 160km/h, they will cut five hours off the travel time of the old Sunlander, which will be decommissioned after serving for 45 years, Ms Bligh said.

The Maryborough facility will build the new trains, too.

At 1146 AEDT, Downer EDI shares were 1.2 per cent higher, up by six cents at $5.08.

[ozbob]

Courier Mail --> Airline luxury for new Queensland tilt train as Sunlander service retired

[Sunbus610]

More info of the Traveltrain Upgrade via the > Queensland Rail < website which also includes a few 'artist impression' images.

[colinw]

One nitpick about the Government media release - the Sunlander was planned in about 1948 and introduced in the early '50s, so it has been running for closer to 60 years than 45.  Like the SX sets, the 'Lander carriages saw use behind steam, diesel and electric locomotives.

I hope some suitable form of preservation can be arranged for some of these carriages, so they may continue to serve on things like ARHS Winelander trains.  The Sunlander has been a part of Queensland for so long that it is going to be difficult seeing it transform into a "tilt only" service.

I wonder if the Tilt will retain the Sunlander name, and what will become of Queenslander class?

I am hopeful that this represents a renewal for long distance passenger rail in Queensland, and not an ending.

[#Metro]

I hope that it goes fast. My experience with the current tilts was that it never got over 100 km/hour on the journey.

[colinw]

I hope that it goes fast. My experience with the current tilts was that it never got over 100 km/hour on the journey.

When did you go on it?  After the Berajondo accident, the tilts were restricted to 100 km/h for quite a long time, and 160km/h was only permitted again when ATP was commissioned on them.  They are - I believe - still 100 km/h restricted if the ATP goes down.

[#Metro]

Hmm. This upgrade is good actually.

A faster trip means that the service will be cheaper to operate, and cost less.
A faster trip also means that more people will make the trip, increasing patronage and revenue.

[Derwan]

It's a good idea.  I occasionally see what I assume is the Sunlander passing through Central - with just a few passenger carriages and several pensioner-aged people inside.

Of course - given the distance involved, it'd be far better to provide a proper high-speed tilt service, but I guess the cost is prohibitive.

[colinw]

Time to knock out the curves from Beerburrum to Nambour, and beyond to Gympie.

The slowest parts of the line are Beerburrum to Gympie, and beyond Innisfail.

[TrainGreg]

2014 is mentioned as the end for the loco hauled Sunlander. I think it may be the end for the carbon steel cars on the other trains. I heard when I went on the westlander in late July that the deadline for the original Lander cars has been extended a few years and 2014 seems like it.
There are 30 stainless steel cars built in the 1980s that should last longer - 15 sitting cars, 10 roomettes and 5 dining cars. Maybe they will be used on the SOTO.
I have to say that the 1st class twinette sleeper on the westlander was very good. It was very clean and everything worked. The Club Diner was also excellent value

[ozbob]

From the Courier Mail 28th October 2010 page 17

Tilt to Cairns will be in style with $189M revamp to woo passengers

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Taxpayers face steep rail subsidy bill

Blog comment:

Subsidies to Queensland Rail's long distance passenger trains are sensible and are of benefit to the whole community.  Support for the rural community by the Queensland Government in maintaining and improving these services is to be applauded.  It should also be noted that public transport in south-east Queensland is also heavily subsidised.  So is health, electricity, water, education and other transport modes.  Rarely is the true cost of road and air infrastructure, and their environmental penalties costed into those transport modes. If they were, they too would show distortions of cost and subsidies. The cost of road trauma is breaking our nation. Queensland is more than just the south-east! Rail subsidies are returned as broader economic benefits which is why the world and now Queensland is getting on with the rail revolution.
Governments are there to support their communities. Governments lost the transport plot in the 1950s and until recently have lacked the long term vision of our pioneers who laid down our basic rail network.  For example, the myopia demonstrated when the Gold Coast and Tweed Heads railways were closed during the 1960s and right of way lost is now hitting home in exorbitant infrastructure costs to re-establish those lines.

In twenty or thirty years it is highly likely that the only sustainable bulk transport mode will be rail.  Air and road will be subject to extreme fuel and environmental costs. Governments need to be thinking long term and therefore expanding and continuing support for rail networks.  Rail is the safe, sustainable and environmentally friendly transport solution for Queensland and the nation.

And ..

The cost of road trauma is around $40 billion dollars are year.  This must be turned around. See http://www.brisinst.org.au/here-and-now/october-2010-issue/7

Money invested in rail actually saves the community in spades. Not only in health cost savings (massive) but reduced congestion costs and lessened environmental impacts.  Important considerations moving into carbon pricing etc.  The world is advancing rail, Queensland is finally getting its act together.

[ozbob]

Bit of unbalanced reporting around today ... no surprise there hey what?

[colinw]

I have to say that the 1st class twinette sleeper on the westlander was very good. It was very clean and everything worked. The Club Diner was also excellent value

One of the very best long distance rail trips I ever did was Brisbane to Quilpie on the Westlander, back in the early '90s, before it was cut back to Charleville.

The sleeper was immaculate - clean linen, everything spotless.  Best of all the club/diner served what is still probably the best steak sandwich I have ever had.  It was lovely sitting there enjoying a meal with an ice cold beer, watching the moon rise in the east as we slowly wound our way up the Toowoomba range.

Back then the train seemed to be moderately well used, with quite a few people using it for journeys like Toowoomba to Roma.  At Charleville it divided with the Westlander proper going to Cunnamulla (quite a few passengers), and the "Flying Flea" onward to Quilpie (not many passengers).

A very enjoyable trip.

[colinw]

Bit of unbalanced reporting around today ... no surprise there hey what?

No great surprises there.

A couple of lines I've been trying to push:

1.  Trains like the Tilt cater for a lot more than the Brisbane to Cairns journey.  The rail service connects towns large & small the length of the coast, and is often the only available option for journeys like, say, Gympie to Innisfail or Bundaberg to Bowen.  Saying "its heavily subsidised, and costs more than Jetsar to Cairns" is a Brisbane centric argument that misses the regional role that the train fills.  You just need to ride one of these services, or  Countrylink in NSW, to see that the train often leave and arrives half full, but people are getting on & off at various points along the line. (e.g. my recent Canberra to Sydney trip I saw people do journeys like Queanbeyan to Goulburn, or Bundanoon to Mittagong).

2.  People worry ceaselessly about the per journey subsidy for the tilt (or even CityTrain), but never even pause to think about all the money put into roads (including the street they live in) without a single dollar of cost recovery, not to mention the hidden costs of road trauma, etc.  Perhaps we should only build highways on a full cost recovery basis, with eToll points every 10km or so?  Perhaps all households should pay a direct road maintenance & access charge for their suburban street, and the roads they drive to school, shops & work on?

These kinds of complaints about subisidising rail start to look silly indeed when you look at the big picture of all the infrastructure that Government provides, often with zero cost recovery, and then consider that the whole point of having Government & taxation is to provide the common services & shared infrastructure that underpins our entire civilisation.

cheers,
Colin

[#Metro]

The Brisbane Times is running with the headline: They pay $218, we pay $265
This 'train bashing' of long distance services has become an annual whinge.

I think that more can be done to get more people on the train services and therefore need less dependancy on subsidy, while retaining or improving service at the same time, although I doubt if a subsidy can be eliminated.

The best guarantee or retaining these services is an improved service and improved financials. It is the best chance for keeping these services, for now and the long term, no matter whatever government is in.

I don't have much time to write for now, but maybe we can think of ideas about this. The introduction of a faster train service will cut labour costs, reduce subsidy, but at the same time improve comfort and service levels. This is a move in the right direction. Thus the new trains are very good!

I will also point out with the BrisbaneTimes headline, which is bordering on Courier-Mail style shock jocking- is this:

$218 + 265 = $483

[Subsidy / total] x 100 = 45 % farebox ratio

The farebox ratio is actually very good! Its significantly higher than the farebox ratio for the entire TransLink network IIRC

So, for those who want to cut the service on the premise of "cutting waste", be warned -- under that logic, you would first shut down SEQ's entire transport network first, because the % subsidy on that is far higher than that for this regional rail service!!!

[ozbob]

612 ABC Brisbane Breakfast host Spencer Howson conducted a quick interview on this announcement this morning.

Thanks for the interest 612!

Click here!

Sunlander rattles off into the sunset

Thu 28 Oct 2010, 9:40am by Spencer Howson

Forget the Sunlander - it's being decommissioned after 45 years on tracks between Brisbane and Cairns. Now the government will spend $189 million dollars on a new Tilt Train, plus upgrades for the existing two tilt trains. The new trains will have deluxe sleeper cars, and there'll be six return services a week. Robert Dow is with Rail Back on Track, a public transport lobby group: Download the audio file

[Dean Quick]

well said Colinw!!

[glossyblack]

Wher did she (AB) get the 45 years from? I travelled to Wyandra on the Westy in 1957 and the Sunlander had been around first. The first run of any of the Landers was the Inlander to Toowoomba in 1952.
At least one complete set (dare I say with matching 1200 DEL) should be preserved.It would be nice to see the Westy next on the list for a tilter. Give the stainless sets to the SOTO.

[Sunbus610]

Tilt Train plans on track
29th October 2010 - Gympie Times

PUBLIC transport users in the Gympie region have welcomed the announcement of $189 million for the delivery of a new Tilt Train and the upgrade of two existing Tilt Train services.

Regular rail commuter, LNP Member for Gympie David Gibson said it was good news for the people of Gympie.

"I took the Tilt Train just this week to travel to Brisbane for Parliament and do so as often as I can so this announcement is really welcomed news," he said.

"Every time I take the train I join with local people waiting on the platform for the Tilt Train, so this will definitely benefit Gympie. "However, along with new Tilt Train services we also need to provide additional city rail services to Gympie North in the middle of the day. The people of Gympie have been asking for additional rail services for some time."

Mr Gibson said the new Tilt Train should provide improved timetable services from Gympie North.

Read more on this story HERE

[SteelPan]

BE AFRAID - when the "world class" loving Qld Govt try to tell you tilt trains are the best method of passenger rail for a distance of Brisbane/Cairns - they simply are not, the "tilt" aspect is a CON - in any case, Qld rail track quality does not allow for sustained tilting operation!  I am not anti, at all, a hardware update for our long-distance passenger rollingstock - just don't con me with the diesel tilt train bit LOL.    The rolling stock upgrade itself gets a BIG thumbs up 

QUESTION re the new "tilt" pls - ALL the designated "bedrooms" get individual ensuites?  ie, not shared facilities like those aweful old Countrylink XPT sleeping compartments?

A thumbs up again for the upgrade, but the "tilt" bit is a fiction - maybe I missed it, but I presume the name "Sunlander" will survive for the newservice?

Thanks for any info provided.

[ozbob]

Yes, the name 'Sunlander' is to continue for the new services.  I had some great journeys on the Sunlander in the 1960s and 70s travelling from Brisbane to Townsville mainly.  Although I did go through to Cairns once.  Used to start off in Melbourne on the Spirit, line up pies in the buffet (they had this quaint rule that you could have two cans of beer with a meal).  The cheapest meal was a pie, so we used to line up the pies to have  few cans of merriment. Funny to look back on it now.  And then on to the Sydney  (too many pies ..) Brisbane Limited after a day in Sydney town, which was a bit more relaxed.  Usually a night at the pub at South Brisbane and then onwards on the 3' 6".  Through the cane fields and narrow gauge steamers.  Was a great way to travel .. even if it took 4 days or so from Melbourne.

[SteelPan]

Yes, the name 'Sunlander' is to continue for the new services.  I had some great journeys on the Sunlander in the 1960s and 70s travelling from Brisbane to Townsville mainly.  Although I did go through to Cairns once.  Used to start off in Melbourne on the Spirit, line up pies in the buffet (they had this quaint rule that you could have two cans of beer with a meal).  The cheapest meal was a pie, so we used to line up the pies to have  few cans of merriment. Funny to look back on it now.  And then on to the Sydney  (too many pies ..) Brisbane Limited after a day in Sydney town, which was a bit more relaxed.  Usually a night at the pub at South Brisbane and then onwards on the 3' 6".  Through the cane fields and narrow gauge steamers.  Was a great way to travel .. even if it took 4 days or so from Melbourne.

Ozbob - now that sounds like some EXCELLENT times! 

[colinw]

Warning, somewhat off topic ramblings to follow ...

This discussion takes me back to my childhood.  I grew up too late to experience steam, but have golden memories of the Sydney Mail via Wallangarra.

Growing up in Toowoomba, trips to Sydney to visit my grandparents involved catching the Mail as it came through Toowoomba on its leisurely trip up to the border via Warwick & Stanthorpe.  Ragtag collection of indian red country carriages, Blue & White 1620 class English Electric on the front whistling away for the long climb up the Silverwood range from Warwick.  Dinner in the RRR at Wallangarra, 3'6" QR train on one side & NSWGR stock on the other, then on to the sleeping car for the overnight run through a swag of towns no longer serviced by rail - Tenterfield, Deepwater, Glen Innes, Guyra ...  I can remember waking up at various crossing loops, and being aware of us crossing other trains - only a couple north of Tamworth, far more after Werris Creek.

Then in 1972 they killed off the Sydney Mail - the last time we caught it must have been just weeks before final closure - so Christmas 1973 was a McCafferty's bus to South Brisbane and on to the Brisbane Limited - still nice, but nowhere near as much fun.  Then around 1976 my parents gave up on rail, and trips to Sydney were a "Bush Pilots Airways" twin engine light plane to Brisbane, connecting with a TAA Boeing 727 to Sydney.  Also a great adventure, but it was the rail journeys that stuck with me and grew into a great love of long distance rail travel as an adult.

Now that was long distance travel as it should be done.  It may have just been the perceptions of a kid, but it was so much more of an experience than the plastic express (XPT) is now.

I have only once recaptured that feeling again, and that was on the Forsayth Mixed in the early 1990s.

[Stillwater]

These matters raised on another site, one relevant, the other less so:

Will there still be a MotoRail facility for Sunlander Tilt Train passengers who want to travel with their cars in tow?

The concept photos of the new Sunlander dining car features a blackboard menu with the prices in Euros.  (Enlarge the photo.)  Very international.

[mufreight]

Take it as read that the motorail facility on the Sunlander will be history when the services are all operated by the tilt train equipment.   

[Golliwog]

Maybe, but it could still be done. Doesn't the Eurostar have a motorail equivalent?

[mufreight]

Eurostar operates on standard gauge and is not a tilt train, the mechanical problems arising from what amounts to operating a tilt version of an item of freight rollingstock are prohibitively expensive and the operating problems that arise from having to break the train set up for loading and unloading add to the improbability of such an operation.
Better to continue one tourist oriented loco hauled train per week catering for a motorail operation if there is indeed a justifiable need for such an operation

[colinw]

Better to continue one tourist oriented loco hauled train per week catering for a motorail operation if there is indeed a justifiable need for such an operation

That is what I was about to suggest as well.    Bring back the Queenslander as a separate train.

7 days a week service to Cairns, comprising 6 days a week TiltLander operation, and the 7th day should be a loco hauled luxury "Queenslander" like used to run back in the '90s.

My wife & I caught the Queenslander to Cairns in 1997 - wonderful journey & onboard service. I suspect the target market for a train like that would be more likely to use motorail.