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Offline ozbob

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Bus priority
« on: July 02, 2010, 01:34:40 PM »
RAIL Back On Track supports public transport. We would very much like to see bus given priority on the road network.

Please post your suggestions, critical points eg. Harcourt Road Darra, and how bus priority can be done eg. re-institution of bus lanes on the Coronation Drive.

Start point:

Bus lanes on Captain Cook Bridge (and Riverside Expressway), Story Bridge

Any more team?

 :bu
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2010, 02:12:50 PM »
The transit lanes on Kelvin Grove Road should start in the city, not just before Blamey St. They should also continue further out from where they currently end. The transit lanes along Waterworks road are good, but could do better if they were extended further along the 385 route. Also, better enforcment of the bus only lane at the intersection of Coopers Camp and Jubilee Tce. Many cars currently use it as they don't want to wait in the long queue which often takes 2 or 3 changes to get through and the worst I've seen any get is a honking from a bus driver.

Agree totally on Captain Cook bridge and the Story Bridge too.
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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2010, 02:25:48 PM »
add Mains Road, Ipswich Road, Beaudesert Road, Logan Road, Clevland Road, Wynnum Road, Sandgate Road, centenary Highway and Ipswich and southern M1 Motorway

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2010, 03:22:54 PM »
The transit lanes on Kelvin Grove Road should start in the city, not just before Blamey St.
Not so.  This is what the busway is for.  I do not think starting the transit lane earlier is achievable.  You may as well go for a full busway.

Having said that, extending the transit lane north is easily achievable, as is making it apply for southbound AM peak trips.

Also, better enforcment of the bus only lane at the intersection of Coopers Camp and Jubilee Tce.
This could easily be done with a bus lane camera.  Sydney has them all over the place.

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2010, 03:47:24 PM »
Yes, I think there are plans to possibly do something with the Coopers Camp lights. But I think its part of upgrading that whole section of Jubilee Tce over the top of the hill there, which I haven't heard anything from other than that they had 3 options they were considering, but all involved changing how that intersection operates.

The busway is really only useful for Lutwyche Rd routes, but true, maybe not all the way to the city, but at least to where buses can access Normanby busway station. I don't get your comment about a full busway, but I doubt you owuld get one along that alignment right now given its proximity to both the Northern busways current extension and the FG trainline and how many other areas have a more pressing need for busways.
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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2010, 04:15:20 PM »
Yes, I think there are plans to possibly do something with the Coopers Camp lights.
Well, a bus lane camera is a very affordable and practical measure.  Not too familiar with the plans for this area, perhaps something more serious is going to happen, as opposed to having a gabfest about it.

The busway is really only useful for Lutwyche Rd routes, but true, maybe not all the way to the city, but at least to where buses can access Normanby busway station.
What I mean here is that I do not see what you are suggesting for this part of this road on the outbound.  I see no practical changes here without a serious amount of money being spent.  Obviously the busway is useful for services besides the Lutwyche Rd ones, and I am not referring to the 66 either. 


many other areas have a more pressing need for busways.
Hmm.  Maybe.  I tend to favour a serious increase on frequency and operating patterns on the inner Ipswich Line and a bus interchange at Indooroopilly over a Western Busway which would not be very easy to build.

I would rank a busway on the Kelvin Grove Rd corridor as a higher priority than Kingsford Smith Drive also.
The Mains Rd corridor may be more of a priority, although this could easily be argued as the Gateway Motorway could provide more assistance than at present, most notably with the 141.

The only other corridor which I see as being in the running for competition with the Kelvin Grove Rd corridor is the Eastern Busway beyond Main Av, Coorparoo.

I hope that post made sense.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2010, 08:44:32 PM »
I'm sure that the government would only be too glad to collect revenue from fines this way  ;)
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2010, 01:10:03 AM »
I get what you mean, although IMO, while busways are good, for a corridor like Kelvin Grove Rd, I would much rather have 24hr buslanes with indented bus stops than an actual busway. While I do love the busways, I feel that the way the stops are currently set up restricts access to buses running on it as there are so few stops.

TT, they should be collecting fines from this! I hate all the whinging in the media about revenue raising from the government, for pretty much all of it, it isn't. If people would simply follow the road rules (or whatever it is the government is issuing fines for) then the revenue stream wouldn't exist.
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2010, 01:47:45 AM »
Quote
TT, they should be collecting fines from this! I hate all the whinging in the media about revenue raising from the government, for pretty much all of it, it isn't. If people would simply follow the road rules (or whatever it is the government is issuing fines for) then the revenue stream wouldn't exist.

So do I Golliwog! They should collect the fines. That's why they would only be too pleased.
On the other hand, this may backfire if it causes people to no longer support HOV/bus lanes because they will get fined.

But sometimes the rules are just deliberate. Fining cyclists for travelling more than 10km / hr on the Gateway bridge is one of them.
It's the government's fault if they designed this multi-billion dollar bridge and forgot to separate the cyclists from the pedestrians? And who gets fined? Not designers of course, but the people who use it!

Will the fines collected from cyclists be used for works on the bridge to separate pedestrians and cyclists? No, it will just go into general revenue.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2010, 01:49:56 AM by tramtrain »
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Offline WTN

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2010, 11:41:38 PM »
I'm all for fining drivers who do the wrong thing on T2/T3/bus lanes and at bus stops. The road rules do give some exceptions (like turning left), but shouldn't be taken with too much leeway. I've seen it happen before. I've also seen cars/trucks park in one of my local bus stops - sometimes they'll get a hounding from the driver. Quite rightly so - it makes it unsafe for passengers.
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2010, 12:59:12 AM »
Something I'd also like to see would be bus lanes down Samford Rd too, although I think thats not a major priority given it parrallels the FG line. But out Old Northern Rd from Enogerra Station could also use some buslanes and serve as a big feeder to Enogerra station. Could even get some decent use out of that bus/rail interchange there.
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Offline WTN

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2010, 01:16:54 PM »
I'd like to see bus priority lights on major roads, or at least the busiest intersections. Old Cleveland Rd had them. The Ipswich Rd, Stanley St, Main St and Woolloongabba busway portal intersection should really have one, as should Jurgens St and Stanley St. Another "portal entry" bus lane can help too. Lots of buses queue up there in the mornings.
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Offline stephenk

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2010, 07:58:13 PM »
Something I'd also like to see would be bus lanes down Samford Rd too, although I think thats not a major priority given it parrallels the FG line. But out Old Northern Rd from Enogerra Station could also use some buslanes and serve as a big feeder to Enogerra station. Could even get some decent use out of that bus/rail interchange there.

I would like to see bus lanes on Kelvin Grove and Enoggera Rd where there are 3 lanes/direction. The existing bus lanes are rather limited along this corridor.  I don't think the bus traffic on Samford Rd currently justifies bus priority lanes.

An future issue with ramping up buses on this corridor is the crossing of the ICB exit at Normanby. I can see this being a future capacity constraint unless traffic lights or an expensive fly under/over is built.

I agree that more needs to be done with the white elephant that is Enoggera bus station (now with added stupid fence). There is huge potential in feeder traffic from the congested Old Northern Rd corridor which is a bit of a public transport black-hole. Obviously Enoggera would need a far better train service than at present - bring back the expresses!
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2007 - 7tph
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2010 - 4tph
* departures from Central between 16:30 and 17:30.

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2010, 09:24:35 PM »
An future issue with ramping up buses on this corridor is the crossing of the ICB exit at Normanby. I can see this being a future capacity constraint unless traffic lights or an expensive fly under/over is built.
Couldn't this be easily solved with "Do not queue across intersection" signs?

Offline stephenk

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2010, 10:11:06 PM »
An future issue with ramping up buses on this corridor is the crossing of the ICB exit at Normanby. I can see this being a future capacity constraint unless traffic lights or an expensive fly under/over is built.
Couldn't this be easily solved with "Do not queue across intersection" signs?

I think that already exists. The problem is that a bus cannot move across the 3-lane exit ramp if cars are travelling at high speed up the ramp. Buses can only cross when there is a gap in traffic. Personally, I think it's an accident waiting to happen.
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2010, 11:14:40 PM »
Isn't the Northern Link tunnel supposed to come up somewhere around there? Or was that only on the old plans? Perhaps as part of it they could give bus commuters a small token gesture and fix it up?
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2010, 03:16:32 AM »
Media Release 4 July 2010
 
SEQ:  Bus priority needed - more bus lanes and traffic light priority

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has called for action to give buses priority on the congested road network.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The massive investment in buses needs to be complemented by giving increased priority on the road network. Increasingly buses are being caught up in the traffic mire around Brisbane and suburbs (1)."

"Buses caught up in traffic leads to inefficiencies and is not an inducement for people to use public transport. Each bus takes 40 cars off the road, uses relatively less fuel, produces less pollution and is 10 times safer than a passenger car.  It is this greater efficiency that makes economic and environmental sense to give buses priority over cars."

"Bus lanes are needed on all major thoroughfares. Some possible locations are Story Bridge, Captain Cook Bridge and Riverside Expressway, Mains Road, Ipswich Road, Beaudesert Road, Logan Road, Clevland Road, Wynnum Road, Sandgate Road, Centenary Highway and Ipswich and Southern M1 Motorway, Kelvin Grove road extended north, Old Northern Road, South Pine Road, Maundrell Terrace, Moggill Road and Coronation Drive."

"Bus priority traffic lights on major roads are needed particularly at busiest intersections. For example the Ipswich Rd, Stanley St, Main St and Woolloongabba busway portal intersection should really have one, as should Jurgens St and Stanley St. Another "portal entry" bus lane can help too. Lots of buses queue up there in the mornings."

"Bus priority must be the road priority!"

Reference:

1. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2695.msg27561#msg27561

Contact:

Robert Dow
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admin@backontrack.org
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2010, 06:45:49 AM »
Media release 1 December 2010

Queensland: Public Transport 101 - Be on the Way!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters wishes to highlight how important road layouts and forward planning is to efficient and legible public transport.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"There are many examples in South East Queensland of developments or suburbs which have anti-public transport features and designs that will never ever allow fast or efficient services to peoples homes. In the words of professional public transport consultant Jarret Walker (1):

'Public transit's usefulness is determined by land use planning more than by transit planning. Once you've arranged your major land use nodes to form a squiggle, you've pretty much prohibited efficient public transit.'

"Public transport must be direct and fast. Nobody wants to catch a bus which wastes their time excessively looping around suburban back streets or the extreme discomfort of riding through a veritable obstacle course of traffic calming devices and multiple speed humps and bumps along the route.

"Every public transport user is also a pedestrian or cyclist because that is how people must get to their local stop or station. Therefore permeability to cyclists and people on foot is also essential, but is not enough on its own. There is little purpose in making a highly walkable or cycle-able development which restricts and imprisons its bus routes from access through multiple dead end roads.

"Overseas best-practice, even in small towns, integrates bus lanes and simple, low cost exclusive busways into the urban fabric which feed to the local rail or bus stations.(2) This idea of physical "pre-integration" of public transport into developments from day one would do wonders for patronage and '15 minute neighbourhoods' as population and development continues to boom in South East Queensland.

"Answering questions like "how will a bus get to these people quickly and comfortably?" and "how can people walk or cycle directly to their local stop?" and "where can I park my bike?" is absolutely essential before so much as a shovel hits the ground. Once the roads are in, the future success or failure of public transport in that area becomes virtually set in concrete.

"Bus priority must be properly re-established in Brisbane. Be on the Way!"

References:

1. Be on the Way! http://www.humantransit.org/be-on-the-way/

2. Richard Lenthall on the busways of Almere, Netherlands http://www.humantransit.org/2010/10/guest-post-richard-lenthall-on-the-busways-of-aimere-netherlands.html

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justanotheruser

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2011, 10:47:49 PM »
I think the intersection of north quay and adelaide st needs fixing.  The problem there is not lack of bus lanes but rather cars blocking the intersection stopping the buses from getting from the island bus stop on right to the bus lane on the left.

somebody

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2011, 11:10:50 PM »
I think the intersection of north quay and adelaide st needs fixing.  The problem there is not lack of bus lanes but rather cars blocking the intersection stopping the buses from getting from the island bus stop on right to the bus lane on the left.
I think they should just stop using the island stop.  Then how do you get from Ann St to the Cultural Centre?  Don't.

But back to your suggestion, it is completely doable with enforcement of the rules that you aren't allowed to enter intersections that you can't leave.  In Sydney, a number of intersections in the CBD have cross-hatch markings to outline the areas you aren't allowed to stand on.  I'm pretty sure it's a rule at all intersections, it's just that these intersections are marked that it will be enforced without mercy.

(Camera) Enforcement is also the solution for the Coopers Camp Rd/Jubilee Tce bus queue jump.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2011, 03:56:02 AM »
Sent to all outlets:

24 March 2011

Greetings,

The bus system is breaking down.  Now besieged by constant delays.  Removal of the bus lanes from Coronation Drive is turning into a disaster.

Most bus delays are recorded here --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2695.msg49299#msg49299  Major bus-lock again this week.

The car-centric transport system is approaching chronic gridlock.  It is time that the selfish few gave ground to the masses.  After all one bus = 40 cars.  (One train = 625 cars). Reinstitution of proper bus priority will actually relieve some of the traffic congestion as less will have to drive.  Try explaining that to those with the 'road-coloured' glasses on.  The shambles that represents transport planning in Brisbane and the rest of south-east Queensland is a disgrace.

Best wishes
Robert

Contact:

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======================

Quote
Media Release 4 July 2010
 
SEQ:  Bus priority needed - more bus lanes and traffic light priority

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has called for action to give buses priority on the congested road network.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The massive investment in buses needs to be complemented by giving increased priority on the road network. Increasingly buses are being caught up in the traffic mire around Brisbane and suburbs (1)."

"Buses caught up in traffic leads to inefficiencies and is not an inducement for people to use public transport. Each bus takes 40 cars off the road, uses relatively less fuel, produces less pollution and is 10 times safer than a passenger car.  It is this greater efficiency that makes economic and environmental sense to give buses priority over cars."

"Bus lanes are needed on all major thoroughfares. Some possible locations are Story Bridge, Captain Cook Bridge and Riverside Expressway, Mains Road, Ipswich Road, Beaudesert Road, Logan Road, Clevland Road, Wynnum Road, Sandgate Road, Centenary Highway and Ipswich and Southern M1 Motorway, Kelvin Grove road extended north, Old Northern Road, South Pine Road, Maundrell Terrace, Moggill Road and Coronation Drive."

"Bus priority traffic lights on major roads are needed particularly at busiest intersections. For example the Ipswich Rd, Stanley St, Main St and Woolloongabba busway portal intersection should really have one, as should Jurgens St and Stanley St. Another "portal entry" bus lane can help too. Lots of buses queue up there in the mornings."

"Bus priority must be the road priority!"

Reference:

1. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2695.msg27561#msg27561

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2011, 03:56:54 AM »
Transport and Multicultural Affairs
The Honourable Annastacia Palaszczuk
24/03/2011

Transport Inspectors to get permanent transit lane powers

Transport inspectors will get permanent powers to enforce proper use of Transit lanes in South East Queensland.

Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk said the first stage of a trial that started last year had yielded positive results.

During the trial bus travel times improved by almost 20 per cent.

Previously Transit lane infringement notices could only be handled by police.

"Giving transport inspectors the power to fine motorists doing the wrong thing frees up police resources and means these vital high occupancy lanes remain open for vehicles carrying more than one person," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"This is about providing reliable, green, clean travel alternatives and making more efficient use of existing infrastructure."

Legislation to give permanent powers to transport inspectors was tabled in Queensland Parliament yesterday.

Transport inspectors will be conducting bus and transit lane enforcement, in addition to their other duties of vehicle defect inspection and heavy vehicle safety inspections.

T2 lanes can be used by buses, taxis, bicycles and cars carrying two more people. Similarly T3 lanes for cars carrying three or more people.

These changes to the law form part of the Queensland Government's commitment to managing congestion.

Drivers who don't comply with the rules for using transit and bus lanes can be fined $100. A maximum penalty of $2000 can be imposed by a court.

A Transport Inspector can issue a defect notice on a vehicle for a range of safety related issues such as bald tyres and windscreen damage.

A Prohibition Notice can be issued in circumstances such as a person who is driving on an invalid licence.

==============================================================
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justanotheruser

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2011, 11:21:07 AM »
I think the intersection of north quay and adelaide st needs fixing.  The problem there is not lack of bus lanes but rather cars blocking the intersection stopping the buses from getting from the island bus stop on right to the bus lane on the left.
I think they should just stop using the island stop.  Then how do you get from Ann St to the Cultural Centre?  Don't.

But back to your suggestion, it is completely doable with enforcement of the rules that you aren't allowed to enter intersections that you can't leave.  In Sydney, a number of intersections in the CBD have cross-hatch markings to outline the areas you aren't allowed to stand on.  I'm pretty sure it's a rule at all intersections, it's just that these intersections are marked that it will be enforced without mercy.

(Camera) Enforcement is also the solution for the Coopers Camp Rd/Jubilee Tce bus queue jump.
yes it is a rule at all intersections including those without lights but just because there is a rule against something does not mean people won't do it. That is more what my comment was directed at. While I would be happy for cameras and fines it could be unpopular politically which could cause hesitation.

somebody

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2011, 05:41:16 PM »
yes it is a rule at all intersections including those without lights but just because there is a rule against something does not mean people won't do it. That is more what my comment was directed at. While I would be happy for cameras and fines it could be unpopular politically which could cause hesitation.
I think you could be overrating this point.  Are red light cameras unpopular?  Unmarked speed cameras are unpopular, but they have been implemented.  I think there would largely be acceptance of this.  People that don't break the rules get irked when they see others breaking the rules.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2011, 11:20:07 AM »
From the Courier Mail 28th March 2011 page 14

Lost lanes increase the strain

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Offline SteelPan

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2011, 08:11:24 PM »
[quote ...Start point: Bus lanes on Captain Cook Bridge (and Riverside Expressway), Story Bridge
Any more team?
:bu
[/quote]

Forgive my ignorance, but wasn't the the idea of the SE Busway, to get buses OFF the inner city road bridges corridors - I accept SOME must serve inner-southside suburbs and therefore use the nearby bridges, but shouldn't all the other buses use the Busway - having said that, isn't there suppose to be a BUS ONLY bridge built near the Victoria Bridge??   Maybe time to factor in another inner CBD BUS tunnel as part of Newman's proposed subway development - kill two birds with one stone - save some $$$$ thinking.    :conf
If urban rail was a sports stadium - there'd be a station on every corner!  Keep it LOUD for Pro-Rail!  :pr

Offline ozbob

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2011, 08:37:08 PM »
It is a capacity and destination/route variation issue.  All the buses cannot fit on the busway ...
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Offline SteelPan

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2011, 08:45:12 PM »
It is a capacity and destination/route variation issue.  All the buses cannot fit on the busway ...

OK tks...
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2011, 04:39:57 AM »
Media release 24 April 2011

SEQ: Melbourne Street bus bottleneck

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers calls for improved traffic light re-sequencing on Melbourne Street at Merivale Street.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The current system is that the lights coordinate such that the Melbourne Street lights turn red at Merivale Street virtually as soon as they turn green for Melbourne Street buses at the Melbourne Street busway portal.  This leads to delays.

"The situation is now more important than ever as the via Indooroopilly express buses are now accessing Cordelia Street via Melbourne Street, the CityGlider is on Melbourne Street and the 196 is to be given BUZ frequency which adds to the number of buses.  It is calculated that 26 buses per hour in the daytime on a weekday will be facing this delay.  These buses should be carrying more passengers than the adjacent car lane.  If they are not, then the lack of bus priority is surely contributing to this."

"The issues with buses turning on to the Northern Busway at Royal Brisbane Hospital facing uncoordinated traffic light delays raised in the Brisbane mX (1) were fixed, and this problem with Melbourne Street can also be fixed."

"It is time something was done about this problem, and reflects the wider transport neglect and myopia with the lack of proper bus priority throughout Brisbane generally.  Why make massive investments in buses if the car is still promoted as the wasteful transport non-solution!"

"Smart state or late state?"

Reference:

1. mX 17 August 2009, page 4 "Busway adding to time".

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Offline Golliwog

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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2011, 09:41:28 PM »
From the media release thread:
This is really a council issue.  Do you think there is any chance of this one getting sorted?  I guess all things are possible if the media hammer it.

Oh, and additional thread reference: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5636.0
How is it a council issue? I would assume the busway being state owned that any traffic lights with it would be state operated.
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Re: Bus priority
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2011, 07:01:57 AM »
From the media release thread:
This is really a council issue.  Do you think there is any chance of this one getting sorted?  I guess all things are possible if the media hammer it.

Oh, and additional thread reference: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5636.0
How is it a council issue? I would assume the busway being state owned that any traffic lights with it would be state operated.
I'd think Melbourne St and Merivale St would be council roads.  Although it is possible that your argument holds and these are state operated lights.  I'm not sure now.

 

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“You can't understand a city without using its public transportation system.” -- Erol Ozan