Bus - rail connections - problems and examples

[ozbob]

The 524 late running particularly in the AM peak is causing issues.  TransLink's public response has not been adequate really.

It might help if other examples are collated.  Please feel free to post here any issues you are aware of.

Adjusting timetables in peaks is a better outcome than constantly missed connections IMHO. Worsening road congestion is the root problem.  That is not going away soon if at all, so timetable adjustments might be necessary.

[ozbob]

I remember you from Thursday, and I've looked at your feedback from that day. It seems the delays on your route are due to consistently heavy traffic at the roundabout of Smiths Road and Queen Street near the St Ives Shopping Centre.
Even if this isn't an issue on your specific run, it can delay an earlier service, which can have a knock-on effect on a later scheduled bus

translinks response to a regular complainer of the 524 who seems to get the bad end of the stick when trying to connect to rail. The poor guy probably needs to start leaving for work 30 minutes earlier. Seriously...is this how commuters are supposed to gain faith in rail-bus connections?
how trip times should be timetabled  >>> route 110 inala to qsbs 7amish inbound trip time 61 minutes......same service 2pm inala to qsbs 55 minutes = 6 minute leeway to counter the effects of ipswich rd traffic.

524

With a primary school & motorway entrance/exit a virtual stones throw from st ives shopping centre....translink and westside KNOW full well that there will be consistent peak congestion around this area but still choose to do nothing about it.

redbank plaza to goodna station

7amish 38 minutes
2pmish 38 minutes

*golf clap for translink/westside*

[aldonius]

Coming in from Ferny Grove then heading southbound on the 77.

They go through their respective Windsor stops at the same time.

[colinw]

554 at Kuraby.  Routinely ends up leaving the stop at the station, then sitting at Beenleigh Rd level crossing just as a Beenleigh to Ferny Grove train comes through - so it connects for bus to rail, but not rail to bus.

[James]

I think TransLink's reasoning for peak 524s will be that with a train coming every 6-12 minutes, a missed connection does not matter so much.

Looking at routes timetabled to connect to rail, the 427/428/432's O/B bus -> O/B rail (and I/B rail -> I/B bus) connections can be a little squeezy at times. 5 minute connection time, especially given the lights to cross Clarence Rd, can mean missed connections. 468 is in a similar boat, it can hit just a little bit of traffic or run a few minutes late out of Indro (all very common) and it can miss the connecting City-bound train, not that it matters too much given 15 minute frequency at Oxley.

In terms of routes which aren't timetabled to connect:
- On weekends/nights at Toowong, I/B 412 arrives just after I/B train leaves
- On weekends/nights at Toowong, O/B 412 departs just after I/B train leaves
- 411 outbound arrives at Toowong generally one minute before or one minute after the outbound train arrives there
- 412 has a slightly better situation with a 4 minute gap between O/B train and O/B bus. However, most of that is just timetable fat and often the driver just drives off early, leaving 'connecting' pax behind
- 427/428/432 - O/B train arrives just as I/B bus leaves (and vice versa)

The other 4xx routes really don't connect with anything (aside from the 460), so there's no other connections which can be missed

EDIT: Swapped sentences around - was ambiguous before. Made it sound like Clarence Rd was in Oxley, not Indooroopilly.

[ozbob]

I think TransLink's reasoning for peak 524s will be that with a train coming every 6-12 minutes, a missed connection does not matter so much.

James re 524.  Depends.  Later in the peak trains leave 7:59 8:12 8:27 8:57

Traffic is particularly bad through this period as there is a huge school car load on the roads.  The one that is very problematical is the 524 bus due at Goodna rail at 8.23am.  It rarely connects, so pax have to wait till the 8.57am.  I don't fret about that, just means an off peak fare for me, but completely unreliable for a time dependent commuter.

[nathandavid88]

554 at Kuraby.  Routinely ends up leaving the stop at the station, then sitting at Beenleigh Rd level crossing just as a Beenleigh to Ferny Grove train comes through - so it connects for bus to rail, but not rail to bus.

I think you're missing the connection that the 554 is designed to provide; feeding people living along the route from Woodridge, Underwood, Springwood and Kuraby to the station in time for an inbound train to Brisbane, with the outbound 554 picking up people who have gotten off the outbound train and taking them back home. Pretty good connection times between the bus and train too, 8 minutes on the inbound, 6 minutes on the outbound by the look of it, shame it's largely an hourly service with some services short running.

I don't think there would be that many people coming up from southern stations wanting to snag a 554 would there? If its to connect to the busway, they'd be better off getting a 140 or 150 at Altandi.

[colinw]

If that is what its designed for then its failing to capture many passengers for its intended role - unsurprising as Woodridge is already served by the train, and it is far faster to get to/from Springwood from inner city destinations using the 555.

From what I've observed using as my daily route - I work at Eight Mile Plains so its the fastest way across from Kuraby - it is running damn near empty on the Springwood to Kuraby sector even in peak.  I also use it to get to Springwood reasonably frequently - and rarely are there more than one or two others on the bus for that sector.   Can't speak for Springwood to Woodridge, as I've only ever used it beyond Springwood once.

For the part of the route that I do use daily, the vast majority of patronage is picked up along Stiller Dr (where the 554 is the only PT option at your front door), and at the new Settler St stop in Levington Road.  In the evening, as often as not I am the only person on the bus when it crosses Beenleigh Road, everyone else having gotten off by the Svoboda Park stop in Stiller Dr.  If anyone else is on after Stiller Dr, they tend to get off at Strathmore St - Kuraby Station - about 50/50 split between people crossing the road to the station or walking the other way into the suburb.

In the morning peak I do see a reasonable number of people boarding at Kuraby Station and going through to either the aged care in Underwood Road, or to RACQ in Levington Road - but again those numbers are minimal compared to the patronage from Stiller Dr area who are using it as a busway feeder or to go to Garden City.

For the Kuraby area, the Stiller Dr section of route has been a real winner as a busway feeder.  Even though only half hourly in peak and hourly offpeak, it is well used.

[nathandavid88]

Hmmm... looking at some maps I think you're right and I may have gotten the intention of the route wrong.

I imagine it would be fairly popular on the Woodridge > Springwood stretch, as it's one of only two routes that connect Woodridge and Springwood (the 550 being the other), and both run different ways through different catchments to get there, the 550 going up along Kingston Road and Park Road (probably already hauling a a decent load from Marsden and Kingston I imagine) and the 554 going up Ewing Road, Smith Road and Nyanza St up to Compton Road. Between Springwood and Kuraby, it doesn't really run past much residential catchment except up Beenleigh Road, and even then the better catchment is along Stiller Road after passing the station.

I'm guessing the Springwood to Kuraby part is really just there to join those two sections into a single route (Clarks seems to like to kill two birds with one stone, as it were), with the lipservice excuse of providing a link between Springwood Bus Station and the railway line. Do any other buses service Kuraby Station? 

[colinw]

I can see Woodridge to Springwood via Compton Rd being well used, and the couple of times I've seen the bus in that area it has had reasonable loadings.

I *think* before the 554 there was an infrequent Kuraby Station to Springwood service that didn't cross the railway, and also possibly a couple of peak hour Kuraby to Garden City buses.  Don't remember, as before the 554 came in I was working in the city and used the train exclusively.  Kuraby has a couple of disused stops from previous incarnations of the bus service - a bus loop in the station carpark, including a shelter, and a bus zone at the shops that is now only used by a couple of private school bus routes.

As far as TransLink routes go, nowadays it is just the 554 with its funny little loop around via Winifred St. The only other buses we see are school routes - one to John Paul College and maybe a couple of others. I agree with you that the lightly used Kuraby to Springwood section of the route really just serves to string together two former routes into one long route.

[HappyTrainGuy]

327 at Geebung.

Because you miss the outbound service.


And then you miss the inbound service.


The level crossing might be gone but its still very touch and go. Usually in favor of still missing the inbound connection and running for your life to make the outbound connection. The whole area can vastly be improved by improving the stop locations into a designated interchange stop. I'll have to check but I think the 326, 327, 336/337 (the one that is clockwise) still use the station stop while the 325 only uses the RSL stop around the corner.

Edit: I'll also add the 340 to that list. The bus now departs not long before the train arrives. Previously it departed as the train was arriving at the station during off peak and in peak departing a couple minutes after the train arrives. The third change should fix it. Wouldn't surprise me if BT or the council did this as to shift more people onto 340 services from the city as train + inbound 340 services were generally faster for those around the Carseldine/Aspley area in peak hour. Once MBRL is up and running it would be interesting to see if more people would shift back onto doing that trip similar to when the Carseldine express trains did.

[techblitz]

big rail connection problems between the GCL 599 between salisbury and sherwood and the richlands train. For last 4 times ive had a 25-30 min wait.....the conn gap probably isnt the issue...its the natural  delays suffered by 599....lucky there is an alterative to richlands via oxley station/101...which has gotten me to richlands 5- 10 minutes earlier 
Follks if you ever need to do ipswich-beenliegh line crosstown...take the 104 whnever you can...its o.t.p is impeccable...with good connection windows to boot...

repost on the 524 facebook post

524 Bus (Redbank Plains-Goodna train station) Is this service ever on time??? If where late to the train station which is 80% of the time we miss the city train and have to wait half an hour for the next one. Do I have to pay to put my daughter in b4 school care and catch an earlier train that still misses the joining train but so I can atleast sit and wait for the nxt which will get me to work on time. This service connecting with the train timetable isnt working. Yes i have filled out online forms numerous times not that anything has changed !!! All I'm asking is review the service, ask the public if it's working

[ozbob]

Feedback from a member:

Thank you for your email.  I would like to point out that for many years, while my son attended Ormiston College, I have been endeavouring to improve the transport in my area (Olympus Drive off Bay Street).  I believe the school bus route was finally amended but alas too late to benefit my son. 

Until recently, I believe there were two different buses that he could take to the Cleveland train station from our area, but in the last review in January 2014, one of them was cut out.  I would have thought that at that time, the frequency of the other bus would have been increased, even if just in the "peak" morning hours.  The recent timetable review for Queensland Rail has vastly improved the peak commute frequency but it is no good if you can't get to the station.  Rail Back on Track is forever touting bus-train connections instead of increased carparking capacity, and here is a prime example of not being able to meet a minimum of at least two morning trains during the week.

My son has two more years of University and I hope the situation will improve for him and not after he graduates!

[Nina M Blackwell]

To further explain what is happening:  this route (272) comes ONCE PER HOUR and if on time would meet a particular train.  The bus is often late, missing connection to that train and the next train cuts it very close to required arrival time, and results in about a 20-25 minute wait at the station.

[STB]

Feedback from a member:

Thank you for your email.  I would like to point out that for many years, while my son attended Ormiston College, I have been endeavouring to improve the transport in my area (Olympus Drive off Bay Street).  I believe the school bus route was finally amended but alas too late to benefit my son. 

Until recently, I believe there were two different buses that he could take to the Cleveland train station from our area, but in the last review in January 2014, one of them was cut out.  I would have thought that at that time, the frequency of the other bus would have been increased, even if just in the "peak" morning hours.  The recent timetable review for Queensland Rail has vastly improved the peak commute frequency but it is no good if you can't get to the station.  Rail Back on Track is forever touting bus-train connections instead of increased carparking capacity, and here is a prime example of not being able to meet a minimum of at least two morning trains during the week.

My son has two more years of University and I hope the situation will improve for him and not after he graduates!

Just taken a look, her nearest route is route 272.  The route that was removed was the low patronaged 256 that ran from Redlands Hospital and the industrial estate to Cleveland Point, although unlike the 272 it ran in a limited off peak time only, between 9amish and 4pmish on an hourly basis.

I do know that the current 272 has been upgraded to run half hourly with the first 272 arriving in time for the 7:09am train to the city, there's also a 4min connection between route 272 and 252 that goes to Ormiston College, 23min return connection in the opposite direction at Cleveland Shops (Middle St).

[STB]

To further explain what is happening:  this route (272) comes ONCE PER HOUR and if on time would meet a particular train.  The bus is often late, missing connection to that train and the next train cuts it very close to required arrival time, and results in about a 20-25 minute wait at the station.

The 272 actually runs every 30mins Monday to Friday with a 7min connection at Cleveland station (going inbound) and 5min connection outbound.  The only times it runs hourly is on Saturdays, and every 2hrs on a Sunday and public holidays.  It used to run hourly in the old timetable pre January 2014.

[HappyTrainGuy]

To further explain what is happening:  this route (272) comes ONCE PER HOUR and if on time would meet a particular train.  The bus is often late, missing connection to that train and the next train cuts it very close to required arrival time, and results in about a 20-25 minute wait at the station.

Problem? Works like a charm over here..... and were supposed to have a train ever 7 mins

[STB]

To further explain what is happening:  this route (272) comes ONCE PER HOUR and if on time would meet a particular train.  The bus is often late, missing connection to that train and the next train cuts it very close to required arrival time, and results in about a 20-25 minute wait at the station.

Problem? Works like a charm over here..... and were supposed to have a train ever 7 mins

Did you read my response?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Yeah. Just getting a quick jab in with regards to what's 'the norm' up here on the northside

[Nina M Blackwell]

To further explain what is happening:  this route (272) comes ONCE PER HOUR and if on time would meet a particular train.  The bus is often late, missing connection to that train and the next train cuts it very close to required arrival time, and results in about a 20-25 minute wait at the station.

The 272 actually runs every 30mins Monday to Friday with a 7min connection at Cleveland station (going inbound) and 5min connection outbound.  The only times it runs hourly is on Saturdays, and every 2hrs on a Sunday and public holidays.  It used to run hourly in the old timetable pre January 2014.

The schedule posted at the stop at Bay Street near Olympus Drive only cites one bus per hour.  I will double-check the timetable.  Thanks.  A snap of the timetable from Translink is attached and it shows one bus per hour.  Does it use a different route on the half hour?

[Nina M Blackwell]

After 8:39 am trains run every half hour, a little more frequently prior to that time on the Cleveland line.

I have called Translink and confirmed that the 272 runs ONCE PER HOUR from 6:00 am until the 9:51 (at the Redlands Hospital stop) and from 10:00 am until 6:00pm every half hour at :21 and :51 past the hour.  How stupid is that?  Half hourly-service is required in order to get to UQ for morning classes.  To boot, the 7:51 has gone AWOL several times in the past couple of weeks.  What on earth is a Uni student to do?

[SurfRail]

Demand is frequently higher during the day in outer metropolitan areas than in "peak" hour, so it is understandable if not exactly a good level of service.

[STB]

Demand is frequently higher during the day in outer metropolitan areas than in "peak" hour, so it is understandable if not exactly a good level of service.

There is also the question of the availability of buses in the morning peak, given that the morning peak is more concentrated than the afternoon peak, with school kids and workers starting at roughly the same time, than in the afternoon peak where there's around an 1.5hr difference with the standard finish times.

As a side note, it still bamboozles me why society has decided to be set up like this and have fixed times for work etc.

[SurfRail]

^ Because most people's jobs involve interacting with other people on a regular basis.  No mystery.

[aldonius]

It wouldn't take much for the morning and afternoon peak lengths to swap, or at least equalise...

It's basically accepted now that adolescents' sleep cycles shift to later in the day. The movement for high school classes to start and finish an hour later is gradually gathering support.

[ozbob]

Some feedback received, thanks!

I would prefer QR to look at ensuring trains run on time, rather than reducing fares.

I currently catch a Caboolture bound train, which is scheduled to arrive at 7.40am (previously listed as 7.38am) at Caboolture Station. It has progressively arrived at Caboolture Station later and later.

I then catch a 655 bus (Caboolture Hospital (public and private), Tafe, St Columbines High School, and University). It is a full bus when passengers are on it.

The train also stops on a platform requiring people to run across the overhead bridge.  I am told that all other corresponding train/bus combinations for these services have the train arriving on the station office platform.

Passengers are now missing the bus on a regular basis. Risk issues include 1. injury and health concerns due to having to run over the bridge 2. carrying heavy bags 3. loss of patronage to the bus/train and 4. children wandering off instead of being delivered to school.

We have tried contacting Translink - no success to date.

As work work here on a permanent basis and are hoping to continue to do so for many years to come, all we would like is for the train to arrive on time and perhaps the train to arrive on the same platform as the bus.

Your consideration and help in this concern would be greatly appreciated.

... We have tried contacting Translink - no success to date ...

^  not good.

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow now

Bus - rail connections - problems & examples http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=10837.msg144485#msg144485 ... @TransLinkSEQ ping @scottemerson @SteveMinnikinMP #qldpol

[Arnz]

On the other hand, Sunbus Sunshine Coast has direct radio links with Landsborough and Nambour stations (and vice-versa from their station buildings) to hold the trains, etc.

Why don't some of the other bus companies in SEQ have direct radio links with the appropriate train station?  It may not matter if your station has a 15 min off-peak frequency, but for others that have 30 mins or worse in off-peak, that is time wasted.

[pandmaster]

Some feedback received, thanks!

I would prefer QR to look at ensuring trains run on time, rather than reducing fares.

I currently catch a Caboolture bound train, which is scheduled to arrive at 7.40am (previously listed as 7.38am) at Caboolture Station. It has progressively arrived at Caboolture Station later and later.

I then catch a 655 bus (Caboolture Hospital (public and private), Tafe, St Columbines High School, and University). It is a full bus when passengers are on it.

The train also stops on a platform requiring people to run across the overhead bridge.  I am told that all other corresponding train/bus combinations for these services have the train arriving on the station office platform.

Passengers are now missing the bus on a regular basis. Risk issues include 1. injury and health concerns due to having to run over the bridge 2. carrying heavy bags 3. loss of patronage to the bus/train and 4. children wandering off instead of being delivered to school.

We have tried contacting Translink - no success to date.

As work work here on a permanent basis and are hoping to continue to do so for many years to come, all we would like is for the train to arrive on time and perhaps the train to arrive on the same platform as the bus.

Your consideration and help in this concern would be greatly appreciated.

... We have tried contacting Translink - no success to date ...

^  not good.

I caught a railbus from the Sunshine Coast to Caboolture a couple of months ago and it arrived late. The train was departing on the island platform. I ran over with another passenger and we both jumped on as the doors were closing. I think that some less mobile passengers missed the train. This was around 7:30/8 PM too!

[HappyTrainGuy]

A friend told me the other day how he was waiting on the bus at Nerang station and as soon as the northbound train arrived about 4 buses scattered for the exit like cockroaches when the lights are turned on. I don't know the area so hopefully its just a one off but that's bloody bad if its a common happening there. SR might be able to shed some light?

[SurfRail]

They aren't frequent enough to timetable around both directions.  Fact of life largely.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Don't they arrive at the same time roughly? Or is that Robina/Helensvale.

[SurfRail]

Don't they arrive at the same time roughly? Or is that Robina/Helensvale.

The northbound is due to arrive around the same time connecting buses would be leaving after the southbound (#:12 and #:42 south, #:19 and #:49 north).

[techblitz]

Route 663
http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/140120-660,663,665,668.pdf

narangba loop.....it runs on a fairly clockfaced timetable except for one service which seems to be timetabled around an afternoon break.....

departure narangba     4.05    4.35   5.10  5.35   6.00


arrival narangba           4.30    5.00   5.35  6.00   6.25

train departure to city   4.34    5.04   5.34  6.04   6.34

window(mins)                  4         4         -1       4       9

yep -1 means a TIMETABLED 29 minute wait for next train....so has the driver break taken priority over a reliable bus/rail connection?...it would seem so......

[ozbob]

A low frequency service, the 524 is timed to make it as difficult as possible for passengers.

Eg.  Last bus from Goodna rail is timed to depart at 8.28pm weekdays.  The down train arrives at Goodna at 8.27am, generally you will not make a connection.  The up train arrives at 8.35pm, bus is gone.   Simply changing bus to say 8.40pm would make if useful for passengers transferring from both services. 

[red dragin]

Route 663
http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/140120-660,663,665,668.pdf

narangba loop.....it runs on a fairly clockfaced timetable except for one service which seems to be timetabled around an afternoon break.....

departure narangba     4.05    4.35   5.10  5.35   6.00


arrival narangba           4.30    5.00   5.35  6.00   6.25

train departure to city   4.34    5.04   5.34  6.04   6.34

window(mins)                  4         4         -1       4       9

yep -1 means a TIMETABLED 29 minute wait for next train....so has the driver break taken priority over a reliable bus/rail connection?...it would seem so......

The new timetable has a train at 5.47pm, so the problem won't last too much longer. Would there be much demand for that connection anyway?

[techblitz]

there is usually only a couple of workers using the 663 to narangba on weekdays around that time......but demand is not the factor here...as long as the service exists..it should be connecting to rail accurately.......even after factoring in breaks,driver changes etc...

[SurfRail]

I've often wondered why the 663 is a one-way loop when it could just as easily connect to Burpengary to provide a more useful local connection.  You'd miss a very small number of the existing stops on the eastern side of the loop in exchange for connecting the whole area to the local shops.

You could even throughroute this with the new 668 to provide a single seat trip to North Lakes.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Since Geebung railway station was upgraded the bus connections are still a shambles. Between the 325, 326, 327, 336, 337 its all over the place. From stop locations around the station to the connections between the bus/train. Nothing like having to walk 300m to/from the 325 stop while its about a 20m walk to the 326, 327, 336/337 (currently forget which one is the clockwise loop).

[techblitz]

on my most recent inbound trip on the 325....because it arrived at my stop on-time(church rd).....i managed to successfully connect to the inbound train....with about 30 seconds to spare...definitely cutting it close....it needs to be looked at because there are workers along zillmere/newman rds which use that service to connect to geebung.
Yep they need to ditch that 325 inbound stop and have it stopping at the closest bus stop to the rail station...which is the 20m one....that being said coopers plains makes the current 325 stop look easy