BaT - Bus and Train project (was UBAT, was no CRR)

[Gazza]

I wonder why they are bragging about getting advice from NYC? Just how many times has the opening of the 2nd avenue subway been pushed back?

[ozbob]

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Scott Emerson

George St station crosses the road

Brisbane's main underground train station will be located on the eastern side of George St, when the Newman Government releases their Draft Reference Design later today.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson said the new George St station will move across the road – to 63 George St – to reduce the disruption on the Queen's Wharf project.

"The project team looked at several options and settled on the development of the current government-leased nine-storey building on the corner of George and Mary St," Mr Emerson said.

"While the platforms will be located about 45 metres directly under the street, the surface station will be at both the front doors of Queen's Wharf Brisbane and QUT.

"Public comment on the draft reference design will be open for four weeks from today and I look forward to the feedback."

Key features of the new George Street station include:

    170-metre-long train platforms
    two 144-metre-long bus platforms (accommodate up to nine buses each)
    bus and rail platform screen doors
    a covered plaza at street-level
    four sets of eight escalators to the concourse level
    four escalators from the concourse level to both the rail and bus platforms
    self-service ticketing and staff facilities located at concourse level

"This project is an opportunity to transform Brisbane into a world-class city with a public transport system to match," Mr Emerson said.

"I'm excited by the level of interest in this project with almost 1000 people suggesting a name and more than 250 construction and finance industry representatives attending the first industry briefing."

The project is a world-first design, combining a railway and busway in a single, double-decked, 15-metre-wide tunnel beneath the Brisbane River and central business district.

[ozbob]

Rail 170m = 7 car ...

[ozbob]

Twitter

ABC Radio Brisbane ‏@612brisbane

Brisbane's underground bus/rail tunnel to be named at 11 this morning.

================

Twitter

Robyn Ironside ‏@ironsider

Winning name for Brisbane Underground comp being announced near the Gabba today. Wonder if it could be Allan Border Way??? #justguessing

[ozbob]

^

Twitter

Scott Emerson ‏@scottemersonmp

@ironsider Keep guessing.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Government office block to make way for Brisbane subway station



A draft plan for the George Street section of the Underground.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane transit tunnel set to be named

[Derwan]

To the BaT Tunnell!!

[ozbob]

JOINT STATEMENT
Premier
The Honourable Campbell Newman
Treasurer and Minister for Trade
The Honourable Tim Nicholls
Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Scott Emerson

Brisbane's BaT Tunnel named

Brisbane's underground bus and train project has been named the BaT (Bus and Train) Tunnel after an extensive competition, giving the winner, Capalaba's Lynne Doyle six months of free travel.

Premier Campbell Newman said the name for the once-in-a-generation project featuring a split level transport tunnel was chosen from almost 1,000 entries in the month-long competition.

"We are delivering better infrastructure through better planning as we promised at the election, and today we are announcing the name and releasing the draft reference design," Mr Newman said.

"There were some wonderfully creative names that an independent panel narrowed down to four sensible options and Lynne's entry was chosen as the winner.

"The three other short-listed names were River Link, River City Tunnel and B-Line and the people who nominated these will each receive a $50 top-up for their go card

"We are now getting down to the business end of the modelling and consultation for this project, to unlock the future of public transport through the heart of Brisbane.

"An underground transport line was talked about by Labor for years, but we are delivering."

Treasurer Tim Nicholls said the draft reference design was now open for public feedback and included a new location for the George Street station and minor adjustments to the alignment.

"I'd urge anyone interested in this project to jump online or visit a session over the next four weeks and speak to the project team to have their say," Mr Nicholls said.

"We promised at the election to revitalise frontline services and this project delivers on that, but we are also a government that listens and we are very keen to hear that feedback."

Mr Nicholls said six community information sessions would take place from 27 March to 9 April in and around Brisbane. A virtual information session would also take place online on Monday, 14 April from noon to 2pm and information displays were available for viewing at six Brisbane City Council libraries as well as the State Library of Queensland.

Transport Minister Scott Emerson said the project was generating a lot of interest from industry and the community.

"This design now outlines the full scope of the project, including the location of a station at 63 George St to service QUT, Brisbane's CBD and the Queen's Warf Precinct," Mr Emerson said.

"I'm excited by the level of interest in this project with more than 1000 people suggesting a name and 250 construction and finance industry representatives attending the first industry briefing.

Lord Mayor Graham Quirk said the release of the Draft Reference Design was a critical step in the planning process for the BaT Tunnel.

"With the release of draft Reference Designs we are one step closer to delivering this world-class public transport project for Brisbane," Cr Quirk said.

"Brisbane residents will have the opportunity to view the Draft Reference Designs and provide feedback to be considered in the development of the Final Reference Design."

The Final Reference Design and Environmental Impact Statement are expected to be available for public comment later this year.

The project is due to be completed in 2020 and operational in 2021. Detailed maps of the Draft Reference Design are available online at www.tmr.qld.gov.au/ubat and at upcoming community information sessions.

[ENDS] 19 March 2014

[ozbob]

On the bright side, ' metro ' has been avoided ...

To the BaT we go ..   hey ho .. hey ho ...

[paulg]

Here's the new info site:

http://www.qld.gov.au/transport/projects/bat/

[ozbob]

Acronyms were not allowed ..

https://www.getinvolved.qld.gov.au/gi/consultation/1917/view.html  accessed 1220 h 19th March 2014

To ensure your entry is valid your name will need to meet the following guidelines. It should be:

    simple, and explains the purpose of the infrastructure
    no more than 5 words
    no acronyms
    pronounceable
    non-offensive
    original and not too similar to an existing name
    non-commercial (names of a commercial nature are not allowed)
    supported by an explanation of why this name should be chosen (100 words or less).

BaT is an acronym ...

[Derwan]

Acronyms were not allowed ..

BaT is an acronym ...

Oops!  Bit of an oversight by the judges there!!

[ozbob]

Means a lot of entries were probably under the impression that witty names like BaT were not on.

I don't really mind BaT as such can live with it, at least it is not misusing ' metro ' ... 

[red dragin]

So if a guy lives in it does that make them the BaT man

Even "Bus and Train" tunnel is a poor name. We don't call the Clem7 the "car tunnel" 

[Derwan]

As well as escalators and elevators, there should be poles!

To the BaT cave... err... tunnel!!!

[ozbob]

It will be a miracle if the BaT actually gets built  .... 

The Qld Transport Minister will be known from here as the ' BaTman ' or ' BaTwoman ' as the case may be ...

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Underground transport to be called BaT Tunnel

[ozbob]

So if a guy lives in it does that make them the BaT man

Even "Bus and Train" tunnel is a poor name. We don't call the Clem7 the "car tunnel" 

Indeed, well put!

[HappyTrainGuy]

Isn't there already a bat tunnel out near Samford on the old Dayboro line....

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane transit tunnel named

[ozbob]

Twitter

Scott Emerson ‏@scottemersonmp

Great to see such interest in this project. The winning entry was The BaT Tunnel (Bus and Train) which meets the T&C's.

[ozbob]

^

Acronyms were not allowed ..

https://www.getinvolved.qld.gov.au/gi/consultation/1917/view.html  accessed 1220 h 19th March 2014

To ensure your entry is valid your name will need to meet the following guidelines. It should be:

    simple, and explains the purpose of the infrastructure
    no more than 5 words
    no acronyms
    pronounceable
    non-offensive
    original and not too similar to an existing name
    non-commercial (names of a commercial nature are not allowed)
    supported by an explanation of why this name should be chosen (100 words or less).

BaT is an acronym ...

[DayboroStation]

Yes, the Yugar Railway Tunnel. See: http://monumentaustralia.org.au/themes/technology/industry/display/100318-yugar-railway-tunnel-memorial for further info.

[Cam]

The proposed Roma Street Station location is further away from the centre of the CBD than the CRR location which proposed an entrance in Emma Miller Place.

Does anyone else think that 3 CBD stations would have provided much more convenient access?

For example:

1) A QUT Station with entrance on the edge of the Botanic Gardens adjacent to the university which could be skipped by services outside of university hours unless there are special events on in the area. It could be operated like Flagstaff in Melbourne's city loop which is closed on weekends.

2) Locating the George St station underneath the intersection with the Queens St mall with travelators/escalators spreading out in several directions where possible rather than just zigzagging to an entrance above the platforms. For example, a travelator underneath Queen St or Elizabeth Street with an entrance at Albert St & another closer to Eagle St.

3) Roma Street Station as designed but with travelators/escalators leading to an entrance at Emma Miller Place.

[Fares_Fair]

^

Acronyms were not allowed ..

https://www.getinvolved.qld.gov.au/gi/consultation/1917/view.html  accessed 1220 h 19th March 2014

To ensure your entry is valid your name will need to meet the following guidelines. It should be:

    simple, and explains the purpose of the infrastructure
    no more than 5 words
    no acronyms
    pronounceable
    non-offensive
    original and not too similar to an existing name
    non-commercial (names of a commercial nature are not allowed)
    supported by an explanation of why this name should be chosen (100 words or less).

BaT is an acronym ...

Yep, and the page stating the conditions has now suddenly vanished, however I took a screen snapshot of it and it is abundantly clear that the entry was INVALID under their rules.

[ozbob]

I can still see --> https://www.getinvolved.qld.gov.au/gi/consultation/1917/view.html

Might be cached on some servers still if they have pulled it ..

[ozbob]

^

Acronyms were not allowed ..

https://www.getinvolved.qld.gov.au/gi/consultation/1917/view.html  accessed 1220 h 19th March 2014

To ensure your entry is valid your name will need to meet the following guidelines. It should be:

    simple, and explains the purpose of the infrastructure
    no more than 5 words
    no acronyms
    pronounceable
    non-offensive
    original and not too similar to an existing name
    non-commercial (names of a commercial nature are not allowed)
    supported by an explanation of why this name should be chosen (100 words or less).

BaT is an acronym ...

Yep, and the page stating the conditions has now suddenly vanished, however I took a screen snapshot of it and it is abundantly clear that the entry was INVALID under their rules.

[Derwan]

I also got a screen shot.  I'll do some editing tonight and will see if a Facebook post generates any interest. 

[paulg]

The proposed Roma Street Station location is further away from the centre of the CBD than the CRR location which proposed an entrance in Emma Miller Place.

Does anyone else think that 3 CBD stations would have provided much more convenient access?

Yes, agreed, the proposed station entrance location is far inferior, Emma Miller Place would have been a great location. However, the name of the game for the project designers appears to be to cut costs as much as possible (and compromise the design in the process). A third CBD station, as you propose, would also make sense but would be very expensive.

I'm intrigued to know how they are going to change the network to match the design. As proposed, there is no plan to change the junction where the northern end of the Exhibition Line meets the trunk lines at Bowen Hills. This means the BaT tracks will merge (at grade, with associated conflicts) with the 'mains' lines, not the 'suburbans'. For a Varsity Lakes <> Airport routing to work you would want a grade-separated junction with the suburbans for non-conflicting access to the airport line at Toombul. No?

Cheers, Paul

[dancingmongoose]

I'm intrigued to know how they are going to change the network to match the design. As proposed, there is no plan to change the junction where the northern end of the Exhibition Line meets the trunk lines at Bowen Hills. This means the BaT tracks will merge (at grade, with associated conflicts) with the 'mains' lines, not the 'suburbans'. For a Varsity Lakes <> Airport routing to work you would want a grade-separated junction with the suburbans for non-conflicting access to the airport line at Toombul. No?

Cheers, Paul

As far as I'm aware they are sticking to the original 2031 plan. GC trains will run to Caboolture and beyond (dotted red line) via Alrderly -> Strathpine.


I may be wrong, but most likely sticking to the same network map CRR had. There was a document with all this info on it but of course it's gone now, but I think I downloaded it so if I have I'll post it up tonight. Feel free to correct me if there's been an official announcement since BaT.

[paulg]

As far as I'm aware they are sticking to the original 2031 plan. GC trains will run to Caboolture and beyond (dotted red line) via Alrderly -> Strathpine.

That was a very long term plan for an extended CRR that included a new line along the North West Transport Corridor. You won't see trains running Alderley -> Strathpine for a very long time yet I suspect. They could very well be planning to change the pairings and have Varsity Lakes trains go somewhere other than the Airport - I'm just intrigued to know what exactly they will propose.

Cheers

[aldonius]

Not sure if it's been posted before, but apparently the grades in the tunnel are such that it will be NGR-only:

http://www.qld.gov.au/transport/projects/bat/design/future/index.html

[Derwan]

Not sure if it's been posted before, but apparently the grades in the tunnel are such that it will be NGR-only:

http://www.qld.gov.au/transport/projects/bat/design/future/index.html

This was mentioned at the meeting we had with the project team.  Don't think it's been mentioned in here before - possibly because the information provided in that meeting was considered confidential. 

It will certainly create management issues for QR.  They won't be able to simply chuck an older SMU or IMU in place of  service if it's going through the BaT Tunnel.  It's almost like having a different gauge!

The other thing mentioned is the "signalling requirements".  I haven't heard of NGR having a different (perhaps in-cab) signalling system?  Or perhaps it's just referring to the distance between signals?

This of course will be a consideration with pairing.  If Gold Coast - Nambour will run via the tunnel (as per the 2031 plan), then only NGR will run on these lines.  Where will the rest of the IMU's go?  Suburban runs?  Weren't they going to order special longer-distance trains?  (I think that was a Labor plan.)

[red dragin]

Twitter

Scott Emerson ‏@scottemersonmp

Great to see such interest in this project. The winning entry was The BaT Tunnel (Bus and Train) which meets the T&C's.

Was there ever a Batman villain called "The puppet" ?

[ozbob]

[#Metro]

Hmm, a few things:

1. There is a dot at Park Road. What is that? A station?

2. Network Planning

2.1 - The Train pattern problem: If no station at Park Road will exist, what will be the operating pattern? Gold Coast trains into the tunnel and Beenleigh trains via South Bank? Split services (i.e. sending some trains via the tunnel and others not will reduce frequency and create a problem at Roma street where trains going to identical destinations arrive at two different stations at Roma Street). A split service pattern reduces the benefits of the tunnel in terms of time savings.

2.2 - What is happening to the Brisbane Transport / BCC bus network? Is the network still going to be the same just shoved through the tunnel? Would be little gain from the infrastructure if this were the case.

Do the gradients permit busway conversion?

[SurfRail]

Part of me wonders if the busway junction at Boggo Rd isn't actually the main reason why we don't get a train station there.  I really have trouble believing the gradient is too steep to allow a flat 170m platform relatively close to the surface and that the government does not have the balls to make some minor surface resumptions if that is required to enable it.

[ozbob]

The lady who submitted BaT was just interviewed on 612 ABC Brisbane.  She said she submitted BaT .... ("Big B little a ... " )  Nothing against the winner good on her.

Why have conditions of entry if they are not enforced?  Emerson is simply misrepresenting when he says T & C met.

I am sure there would have been a lot more acronym like entries if that condition was not there.

LNP - can't sort fares, can't run a tunnel naming competition either .. what hope for the BaT?  LOL

[pandmaster]

The new platforms should be built to handle nine-car sets. BaT would not be needed if the current platforms were that long. This is likely to be the only new line in the city for quite some time so get it right!