BaT - Bus and Train project (was UBAT, was no CRR)

[SurfRail]

As for the allignment through the city...why aren't they just going dead straight off George st up to the surface tracks, which avoids the length of tunnel needed, and puts it closer to the busway.

The alignment they have picked would be a lot more functional.  If it is in roughly the same spot as the CRR platforms would have been, it means they are located much closer to the main concourse and can have a secondary entrance on Roma Street - less walking distance to the station and less inside it when transferring between Sector 1/2 and Sector '3'.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Queensland Premier Campbell Newman reveals plans for double-decker bus and train underground transport network for Brisbane

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Mixed reaction to Brisbane Underground plan

[ozbob]

JOINT STATEMENT
Premier
The Honourable Campbell Newman
Treasurer and Minister for Trade
The Honourable Tim Nicholls
Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Scott Emerson

LNP delivers unique transport solution

Queenslanders will have access to one of the most innovative public transport connections in the world which will be delivered by the Newman Government at a saving of $3 billion compared to Labor's fanciful proposals.

Premier Campbell Newman announced the Underground Bus and Train project, a 5.4 kilometre tunnel with two train lines in the lower section and two busway lanes in the upper section.

"There's been too much conversation in the past, but we are a government that promised to deliver better planning, infrastructure and revitalised frontline services and that is what we are doing," Mr Newman said.

"We've taken two of Brisbane's major congestion challenges – the Merivale train bridge and the Cultural Centre bus precinct – and come up with an affordable and elegant solution.

"Labor has been talking about the need for a second rail crossing since Peter Beattie raised the issue in 2005.

"Their subsequent proposals lacked vision, were unaffordable and only solved half of the challenges facing the growing south east Queensland region.

"The project we are announcing today delivers the public transport services needed for the next 50 years.

"A single 15-metre-wide tunnel will be built, requiring the largest borer ever used in Australia – almost two metres wider than the Clem7 and Airport Link tunnels."

Mr Newman said a public competition would be held early in the New Year to come up with a name for the project.

Treasurer Tim Nicholls said the tunnel would go underground at Dutton Park in the south to Victoria Park in the north, via new stations at Woolloongabba, George St and Roma St.

"This will be a major economic boost, creating hundreds of jobs and new pathways for business to grow and develop in Brisbane," Mr Nicholls said.

"Labor gave us a public transport system that was unaffordable, unreliable and didn't meet the needs of south east Queensland.

"This is yet another way that we are setting about revitalising frontline services and fixing the mess we inherited."

Transport Minister Scott Emerson said the estimated $5 billion project would deliver better passenger outcomes than proposed by the $5.2 billion Cross River Rail tunnel and the $2.8 billion Suburbs to City project.

"This is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to transform Brisbane into a world city with a public transport system to match," Mr Emerson said.

"This city has had two groups of engineers working on two solutions for two major issues.

"The Newman Government and the Brisbane City Council have got our heads together and come up with a solution."

Lord Mayor Graham Quirk said cooperation between the State and Council led to an innovative solution that advanced multiple transportation deficiencies.

"This is a great example of different levels of government working together to address the city's public transport capacity issues and, unlike previous plans, it is affordable and can be delivered by 2021," Cr Quirk said.

"When completed, the project will result in significant travel time savings across the suburbs.

"The CBD and adjacent suburbs will need to accommodate an additional 130,000 workers in the next 20 years and we need to improve public transport capacity to accommodate this growth by improving the network.

"It achieves the outcomes we identified in the Suburbs 2 City study and will take up to 200 buses off CBD streets in the morning peak and reducing 100 buses per morning peak hour on the Captain Cook Bridge."

The project will now pass to the Coordinator-General to assess the environmental impacts. Resumptions will include Dutton Park train station, however only minor impacts on other properties are expected.

There were 108 residents and businesses affected by the former Cross River Rail project – including  82 properties in the Yeerongpilly area – that will no longer be resumed.

Early works are expected to start in 2015 and be completed by 2021. Further information will be available at www.tmr.qld.gov.au/ubat


[ENDS] 17 November 2013

[ozbob]

Underground Bus and Train

--> http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/ubat

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/brisbane-underground-more-information.html
Blog post updated, to include concerns about 9 car stations, lack of busway station or portal around Roma Street.

As a group, I really think we should be promoting linking the UBAT with Legacy Way, instead of the Northern Busway (as it is otherwise just a rather pointless Inner Northern Busway bypass).

[ozbob]

Indeed, enabling Legacy Way for bus RT is a priority ... 

Not withstanding the promised ' 2000 express buses daily ', a patent connection will do wonders for peak bus flows in Brisbane West ...

Consultation will be opening up.  Then is the time to put in a submission http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/ubat#community-info

Still early days ...

[ozbob]

ARA Media Release  http://www.ara.net.au/Media-releases
18 November 2013

No tunnel vision in Queensland

The Australasian Railway Association (ARA) has welcomed the announcement by the Queensland government to commence construction on a world first $5 billion combined train and bus tunnel for Brisbane.

ARA CEO Bryan Nye said he was glad to see the Newman government take ownership of this project and ensure its future, after the federal Coalition pulled funding offers when it won government.

"It is good to see that state governments like Queensland, even in tough economic times, recognise the importance of public transport investment to ensure our cities are productive, liveable and better connected into the future.

"With Brisbane's inner city rail network reaching its absolute capacity within the next 5 years, providing an extra river crossing in the CBD will ensure Brisbane's entire transport network doesn't grind to a halt.

"This investment in critical infrastructure for Brisbane will see eased congestion in the CBD, more public transport routes into the city and more people and freight going on rail," Mr Nye continued.

Combining the rail tunnel with an extension of Brisbane's world class busway network is also to be commended, potentially alleviating congestion on the Victoria Bridge section of the busway network.

"This project is like hitting two birds with one stone, breaking bottlenecks on two public transport systems at once", Mr Nye added.

The extra rail capacity that this project will allow will be a boon to the entire South East Queensland public transport network.

"With the average passenger train removing 525 cars off the road, Brisbane is sure to see an improved quality of its environment, society and economy because of this world leading project," said Mr Nye.

Early works on the 5.4 kilometre tunnel are expected to start in 2015 and be completed by 2021.

-ENDS-

[paulg]

There is now a PDF newsletter on the TMR site:
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Projects/U/UBAT/m/ubatnewsletter.pdf

[Cam]

I think that most of the 14/15 minutes saving for the "southern suburbs" is gained by the addition of express services from Beenleigh.

I suspect that only Gold Coast & Beenleigh express services will use UBAT - all stoppers on the Beenleigh Line will likely still travel via South Brisbane. If this is the case, where would one on a Beenleigh all stations service change to access Woolloongabba or George Steet stations?

Surely a busway station could be constructed at the top of the mall. Many bus passengers are used to the convenience of the QSBS. Walking an extra 5-10 minutes from the proposed George St or Roma St stations will frustrate many who are going to the Queen Street Mall.

[STB]

I've taken a closer look at the map, and honestly I think they could try and set it up where a future 'Spring Hill' station can be built easily at the top end of Fortescue St with an entrance on Gregory Tce, where the track is supposed to run under.  With the park there, it'd look quite good I think.

As a side note, I've been doing some foaming around UBAT, Trouts Road and the duplication of the Cleveland and Sunshine Coast lines that will obviously eventually happen.  I might post that foaming later in another thread just for discussion and debate.  And as part of that foaming, I've renamed 'Exhibition' station as 'Victoria Park' station (the way of the words sounds less harsh to me, and is near the Victoria Park golf course already).

[BrizCommuter]

As a side note, I've been doing some foaming around UBAT, Trouts Road and the duplication of the Cleveland and Sunshine Coast lines that will obviously eventually happen.  I might post that foaming later in another thread just for discussion and debate.  And as part of that foaming, I've renamed 'Exhibition' station as 'Victoria Park' station (the way of the words sounds less harsh to me, and is near the Victoria Park golf course already).

Pretty sure that rail infrastructure projects required to meet TMR's claims (e.g Gold Coast/Beenleigh duplications/triplications/quadruplication, and Cleveland Line duplications) are not in the $5m price tag.

[STB]

As a side note, I've been doing some foaming around UBAT, Trouts Road and the duplication of the Cleveland and Sunshine Coast lines that will obviously eventually happen.  I might post that foaming later in another thread just for discussion and debate.  And as part of that foaming, I've renamed 'Exhibition' station as 'Victoria Park' station (the way of the words sounds less harsh to me, and is near the Victoria Park golf course already).

Pretty sure that rail infrastructure projects required to meet TMR's claims (e.g Gold Coast/Beenleigh duplications/triplications/quadruplication, and Cleveland Line duplications) are not in the $5m price tag.

Of course.  I'm kinda expecting that the duplications will happen sometime after UBAT is built.

[aldonius]

Just realised we're now going to have dual conga lines at the intersection north of Buranda in PM peak...

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Infrastructure body in dark on transit tunnel

The Newman government didn't tell the national infrastructure funding body about its revamped Brisbane underground project, it has emerged in senate estimates hearings.

Infrastructure Australia coordinator Michael Deegan admitted the organisation only learned of the $5 billion Underground Bus and Rail Tunnel scheme from media reports on Sunday.

Mr Deegan said Infrastructure Australia had been in ongoing discussions with Queensland Rail about a range of projects ...

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/infrastructure-body-in-dark-on-transit-tunnel-20131118-2xql8.html

[achiruel]

Well considering Abbott has publicly stated he won't fund urban public transport, what would be the point?

[Stillwater]

If he was smart, Newman would be sending a Qld delegation to IA to fully brief them on UBAT.  However, the timeframe he has set himself would indicate that the Premier does not have time for a full business case analysis from IA.  Superficially, that would indicate that Qld does not want cost scrutiny for fear that it might undermine the LNP argument that 'we do infrastructure better and cheaper than Labor'.

[Golliwog]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/brisbane-underground-more-information.html
Blog post updated, to include concerns about 9 car stations, lack of busway station or portal around Roma Street.

As a group, I really think we should be promoting linking the UBAT with Legacy Way, instead of the Northern Busway (as it is otherwise just a rather pointless Inner Northern Busway bypass).

I'm not convinced they're not already considering that.

From this document:

There is now a PDF newsletter on the TMR site:
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Projects/U/UBAT/m/ubatnewsletter.pdf

they say that the project delivers a 12 minute travel saving from Kenmore to the City via bus. Can't imagine any other way that that's not a typo unless you're making some connection there.

Personally, I'm not opposed to tacking on bus infrastructure, but I wonder if they've had any discussions with Translink's network planners about what they actually want to be running in 5 years time, vs just listening to Brisbane City Council's "F&ck Yeah, BUSES!" approach.

[Stillwater]

The question is whether IA would fund urban underground busways.  It's intriguing that the Qld Govt was 'outraged' that feds (Labor) had $715 million on offer for CRR and demanded more.  Now that zero is on offer from the (Coalition) feds, not a jot of criticism.

Journalists should quiz Newman/Emerson on the preferred funding model and ask whether federal government money is not likely to be in the mix.  Also, ask the feds whether they would fund UBAT, in which case, I suggest the answer would be 'the Qld Government has not come to us with a project concept or business case.'  Newman should keep feds in the loop.  It might pay in the long-run when the project exceeds its budget and a federal top-up might be required.

[#Metro]

I have had a long think about BUMs today. I am not happy with Campbell's BUM. It is in the wrong location and I don't like the shape of it.

The BUM needs to be realigned.  This project is very costly and can only be done once. It is important to get it right the first time and there will be no going back.

I am OPPOSED to the project in it's current form.

1. The concept of a dual deck tunnel is a good one. Even if buses are used.
2. The alignment is all wrong and needs to be redone.

Specifically:

In the original Cross River Rail Proposal there were to be stations at Spring Hill or Exhibition. These are now not in the plan SO THERE IS NO NEED TO GO TO THESE LOCATIONS ANYMORE.

Secondly, when the original railway was put through Brisbane it was put on the Western edge of the city purely as a historical accident. Why are we repeating this mistake? The axis of activity within the city is right up Queen Street into the Financial District and then up to Fortitude Valley. That's where we need train services, up this axis, NOT to Roma Street.

The alignment is thus all wrong and should be realigned for MAXIMUM PATRONAGE.

Dig up the Wilbur Smith Plan 1965, place the tunnel under Queen Street, stop at the Financial District, then a new station under the existing Fortitude Valley Station on a level underneath - bus and train. Then up into Bowen Hills to connect to the northern lines. This will also directly take pressure off Central and establish a "Cultural Centre" like Key Interchange Point at Bowen Hills.

ALIGNMENT SHOULD BE LIKE THIS: (minus the Roma St section which is done by bus already now with KGS and the INB) If Queen St cannot be used there is Adelaide St or Ann st as well.

[#Metro]

The above idea would be very suitable for doing underneath Adelaide Street.

What you would do is have a station at Queens Park (hollow out the current car park underneath Queens Park) and put the station there.

Next you would get the tunnel to curve underneath the Myer Centre or George Street to get into Adelaide Street.

Then you would have the station AT KGS by using the levels below the current KGS station. There would be NO NEED for a new station, just extend the existing one at KGS. This solves the "what if I want to go to Roma St" issue. Just walk up 1 level and catch the bus...

Next the tunnel would continue to the Financial District. There is a vacant site at 399 Adelaide Street that is a big hole in the ground as per a cancelled construction project. Resume that and use it. The hole is already pre-dug for you. A building can go on top which would pay off the cost of construction of a station there. Save $$$

Next the tunnel would run under Wickham St to Fortitude Valley. Place the new station directly underneath the existing one or slightly off to the east underneath Wickham street. Or you could put a pedestrian portal in the basement of the McWirthers Building. Fortitude Valley Solved. No need for expensive new station there either. Save $$$

The tunnel would merge into the existing tracks a la Melbourne City Loop style at a point after Fortitude Valley. You have free land for portals at Fortitude Valley School there (state land to be closed) for rail portal exits and if that is not good enough, a bit further up just before Bowen Hills at Markwell street you could have portals.

[#Metro]

This is my concept - I've decided that perhaps we can have the station at Parliament after all.

Combined Underground Transit Tunnel (CUTT) ;-)

The planners have the alignment totally wrong and the current alignment is grossly deficient.



http://s998.photobucket.com/user/tramtrain/media/CUTT_zps1a9729bb.png.html

[Gazza]

All I'm going to say is that under the ICIRS they already went through a number of possible CBD alignments and CBD station locations (Including Wether the CBD interchange should be at Central or Roma St), and this is more or less the one that got up. Yep, Albert St has become George St and there are pro's and con's with either option, but I'm not really too bothered either way.
Here's the original image back during the consultation phase.

This solves the "what if I want to go to Roma St" issue. Just walk up 1 level and catch the bus...

Isn't this introducing a double interchange for those heading to Milton etc? It might be fine initially, but in the future it would be hugely inefficient having hordes of passengers filling up buses at KGS, and then emptying 1 stop later at Roma St with the bus then having to turn around somewhere.

[Otto]

Next the tunnel would continue to the Financial District. There is a vacant site at 399 Adelaide Street that is a big hole in the ground as per a cancelled construction project. Resume that and use it. The hole is already pre-dug for you. A building can go on top which would pay off the cost of construction of a station there. Save $$$

I guess you haven't seen 399 Adelaide St lately ?

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Bus and rail tunnel all show and no substance: transport expert

Bus and rail tunnel all show and no substance: transport expert
November 19, 2013 - 12:01AM
Natalie Bochenski

A mass transit specialist claims the Brisbane Underground Bus and Rail tunnel is a political stunt that relies on old thinking about transport planning.

The state government announced the $5 billion UBAT project as its replacement for Labor's Cross River Rail scheme on Sunday.

The 15-metre wide double-decker tunnel will feed both buses and trains from Dutton Park in the south to Victoria Park in the north.

Chris Hale, from the University of Melbourne's Infrastructure Engineering department, said the government had not followed mainstream transport planning processes when developing the idea.
Advertisement

"They've just come up with a stunt, an idea that looks really flashy and exciting," he said.

"However, on any basic transport planning process you would see that bus lanes are the way to go, and high capacity rail for the main moving people path."

The UBAT system will be in operation from 2021, three years after the Cross River Rail scheme was scheduled to open.

Dr Hale, who consulted on an early draft of the CRR but has no ongoing relationship with the Transport Department, said it was a waste to put bus lanes inside a tunnel, particularly with trains operating in the same corridor.

He said one train alone could move 900 to 1000 people, whereas 12 to 15 buses would be needed to move the same number, each with the cost of a driver.

"The crux question is – do the benefits of adding that small amount of people movement capability from buses [to the tunnel] outweigh the very significant additional cost that's going to involve?" he said.

"And it just can't, the maths cannot stack up."

Dr Hale said state and local governments were hanging onto bus dependency thinking initiated by Labor governments in the mid-1990s, rather than embracing a paradigm shift to rail.

"Brisbane needs to draw that line now," he said.

Dr Hale said authorities could reduce bus congestion immediately by introducing dedicated bus lanes on three to five major arterial roads into the city.

"It could be done essentially for nothing, with a bit of red paint and some law enforcement," he said.

"If you have the four or five bus corridors that are entering the city from those different angles, accommodated in a bus lane, by definition you're not going to need a tunnel."

He said the city had experimented with bus lanes but in contrast to other centres around the world, it was closing rather than expanding them.

"One year we take away a bus lane on Coronation Drive, and the next year we say we're going to have to build a tunnel under the river at a cost of billions of dollars, because we have a problem getting buses in and out of the city," he said.

"This is why it becomes ridiculous."

Dr Hale said politics were behind the UBAT, with the Newman government not wanting to accept the basic good tenants of the Cross River Rail scheme.

"Brisbane's always thrashing around and always coming up with these strange ideas and stunts and this bus doctrine that no one else in the world really follows, at least not in the developed world," he said.

"It's time to move beyond that immaturity for Brisbane and start grappling with real genuine mass transit and transport planning."

Dr Hale suggested the German city of Munich as an example for Brisbane to follow, given its similar population and position near several satellite cities.

"The inner and middle suburbs are all effectively and comprehensively covered by rail, trams and buses," he said.

"They build BMWs in Munich, they've got a car culture, they've got a comprehensive road system but still a very high usage of public transport."

[ozbob]

True in part, but the political and actual reality does need dual mode enhancement.  The doctrine underpinning Connecting SEQ 2031 has been discarded politically.  Reality.  People can point out the obvious mode biases and the consequences but that is not going to change the reality.

I am not too concerned with the bus segment at all.  It is needed in the end, and I expect electric artics will be the go in a few years anyway on busways UBAT etc.

Removing bus lanes is not smart, was never smart, but this is Queensland!  The failed bus reviews speak for themselves ...

[ozbob]

All I'm going to say is that under the ICIRS they already went through a number of possible CBD alignments and CBD station locations (Including Wether the CBD interchange should be at Central or Roma St), and this is more or less the one that got up. Yep, Albert St has become George St and there are pro's and con's with either option, but I'm not really too bothered either way.
Here's the original image back during the consultation phase.

George St is fine by me.  Particularly with the value capture opportunities George St station will endear.  I understand that it is also technically a bit easier to do the tunnel on that alignment, and as you point out it has been looked at and was one of the earlier options.

[ozbob]

Yee haa!! 

====================

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Scott Emerson

Underground's Legacy connection

Brisbane's newest tunnel will link up with Brisbane's future tunnel under a Newman Government plan to integrate public transport across south east Queensland.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson said buses from the Underground Bus and Train project would connect with Legacy Way, delivering on the election promise of better infrastructure and planning.

"This is a great outcome for those travelling by bus to or from the city and the outer western and Centenary suburbs, saving 10 to 15 minutes," Mr Emerson said.

"It will also ease congestion along Coronation Dr and Milton Rd and will ensure Legacy Way is a vital part of south east Queensland's public transport network.

Mr Emerson said inbound buses would use the connection between the Inner City Bypass, Gilchrist Avenue and the Northern Busway, onto the new underground busway.

In the outbound direction, buses would come from the underground and use a new west-facing on-ramp to the Inner City Bypass and then onto Legacy Way.

Lord Mayor Graham Quirk said the innovative project was a great example of different levels of government working together to address the city's public transport capacity issues.

"It connects Brisbane's northern and southern busways and provides access from the western suburbs via Legacy Way to give buses a congestion-free run beneath the inner city and reduce travel times out into the suburbs," he said.

"The biggest beneficiaries will be public transport users, commuters and freight operators who will spend less time in congestion.

"The Underground Bus and Train project will revolutionise Brisbane's bus service by filling a critical gap in the busway network through the busiest part of the city."

The Underground Bus and Train project is a 15-metre wide, 5.4 kilometre tunnel with two train lines in the lower section and two busway lanes in the upper section. It will be delivered at a cost of $5 billion, $3 billion less than Labor's fanciful proposal.

The project will also include three state-of-the-art train stations located 35 to 40 metres below Brisbane's CBD and Woolloongabba. A route map is available at www.tmr.qld.gov.au/ubat

[#Metro]

%#^# This is not real is it?

What's next? BT breakup? It's like all christmases are coming

[ozbob]

The Christmas cup of cheer is running over ...

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

19th November 2013

Legacy way bus connection

Greetings,

This is great news.  The lack of direct patent connection between Legacy Way and the busway system has always been a major concern for us (1).

Now to be addressed.   Great outcome.  Well done indeed!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Reference:

1. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7798.0

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Scott Emerson

Underground's Legacy connection

Brisbane's newest tunnel will link up with Brisbane's future tunnel under a Newman Government plan to integrate public transport across south east Queensland.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson said buses from the Underground Bus and Train project would connect with Legacy Way, delivering on the election promise of better infrastructure and planning.

"This is a great outcome for those travelling by bus to or from the city and the outer western and Centenary suburbs, saving 10 to 15 minutes," Mr Emerson said.

"It will also ease congestion along Coronation Dr and Milton Rd and will ensure Legacy Way is a vital part of south east Queensland's public transport network.

Mr Emerson said inbound buses would use the connection between the Inner City Bypass, Gilchrist Avenue and the Northern Busway, onto the new underground busway.

In the outbound direction, buses would come from the underground and use a new west-facing on-ramp to the Inner City Bypass and then onto Legacy Way.

Lord Mayor Graham Quirk said the innovative project was a great example of different levels of government working together to address the city's public transport capacity issues.

"It connects Brisbane's northern and southern busways and provides access from the western suburbs via Legacy Way to give buses a congestion-free run beneath the inner city and reduce travel times out into the suburbs," he said.

"The biggest beneficiaries will be public transport users, commuters and freight operators who will spend less time in congestion.

"The Underground Bus and Train project will revolutionise Brisbane's bus service by filling a critical gap in the busway network through the busiest part of the city."

The Underground Bus and Train project is a 15-metre wide, 5.4 kilometre tunnel with two train lines in the lower section and two busway lanes in the upper section. It will be delivered at a cost of $5 billion, $3 billion less than Labor's fanciful proposal.

The project will also include three state-of-the-art train stations located 35 to 40 metres below Brisbane's CBD and Woolloongabba. A route map is available at www.tmr.qld.gov.au/ubat

[#Metro]

I agree with Chris Hale. The alignment for buses is way off axis. The stations are sub-optimally located. Of course a station has to go at George Street, we wouldn't want the MPs missing out on a direct train to their front door despite almost all of them driving cars and being chauffeured around because they have so many appointments.

It is a major defect that there is no station around Queen Street. That's where everyone is.

He said one train alone could move 900 to 1000 people, whereas 12 to 15 buses would be needed to move the same number, each with the cost of a driver.


"The crux question is – do the benefits of adding that small amount of people movement capability from buses [to the tunnel] outweigh the very significant additional cost that's going to involve?" he said.

"And it just can't, the maths cannot stack up."

This is true. You have 15 drivers to pay each on $30 per hour (it will be even more uneconomical in 2021 when this tunnel opens, more like $40 per hour). Buying 15 buses is cheaper but paying to run them is not. Their lifecycle is shorter and due to the diversity of origins and stopping patterns, have much worse loading (i.e. this is the reason why Cultural Centre buses run with 50% air). When you take the air into account, to get a full train-equivalent you actually need 30 buses and 30 drivers at a collective ($30 x 30) $900 per hour to move the same people as 1 train with 2 staff on it.


The busway needs to be converted to automatic subway, pronto.

NOW CAN PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHY WE HAVE COST EXPLOSIONS AND 70% SUBSIDIES?

There is politics behind UBAT, theory predicts that the Lord Mayor will have a central role in any transit project due to the virtue of owning Brisbane Transport, even if it is totally outside his jurisdiction to construct or fund. And we see this play out just like clockwork here.

In addition, due to the awkward bus alignment, the time saving is just 4 minutes, all of which will be cancelled out by the extra walking distance from the poorly positioned stations. There is no net benefit to bus passengers in terms of speed because the walking time has been extended, indeed it may actually be much worse than the current scenario.

[ozbob]

I wouldn't get to concerned at this stage LD.  The existing bus system remains.

There will be more fine detail to come.  I suggest working on giving feedback as part of the consultation.

[techblitz]

Yee haa!! 

====================

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Scott Emerson

Underground's Legacy connection

Brisbane's newest tunnel will link up with Brisbane's future tunnel under a Newman Government plan to integrate public transport across south east Queensland.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson said buses from the Underground Bus and Train project would connect with Legacy Way, delivering on the election promise of better infrastructure and planning.

"This is a great outcome for those travelling by bus to or from the city and the outer western and Centenary suburbs, saving 10 to 15 minutes," Mr Emerson said.

"It will also ease congestion along Coronation Dr and Milton Rd and will ensure Legacy Way is a vital part of south east Queensland's public transport network.

Mr Emerson said inbound buses would use the connection between the Inner City Bypass, Gilchrist Avenue and the Northern Busway, onto the new underground busway.

In the outbound direction, buses would come from the underground and use a new west-facing on-ramp to the Inner City Bypass and then onto Legacy Way.

Lord Mayor Graham Quirk said the innovative project was a great example of different levels of government working together to address the city's public transport capacity issues.

"It connects Brisbane's northern and southern busways and provides access from the western suburbs via Legacy Way to give buses a congestion-free run beneath the inner city and reduce travel times out into the suburbs," he said.

"The biggest beneficiaries will be public transport users, commuters and freight operators who will spend less time in congestion.

"The Underground Bus and Train project will revolutionise Brisbane's bus service by filling a critical gap in the busway network through the busiest part of the city."

The Underground Bus and Train project is a 15-metre wide, 5.4 kilometre tunnel with two train lines in the lower section and two busway lanes in the upper section. It will be delivered at a cost of $5 billion, $3 billion less than Labor's fanciful proposal.

The project will also include three state-of-the-art train stations located 35 to 40 metres below Brisbane's CBD and Woolloongabba. A route map is available at www.tmr.qld.gov.au/ubat

Woop woop....onwards!!! 

%#^# This is not real is it?

What's next? BT breakup? It's like all christmases are coming

Dream on.....

The busway needs to be converted to automatic subway, pronto.

[paulg]

I think the main issue that needs to be clarified is whether there is a plan for train platforms on the UBAT/BUM at Park Road. It is such an obvious necessity that I hope they just forgot to mention it, but of course it is more likely that they've left them out to save money. At the very least they need to plan for them to be added, otherwise a big opportunity lost for transfers to/from Cleveland Line and UQ bus (not to mention servicing PA directly)

[Jonno]

I think our biggest concern need to be no Park Road Station/Interchange and the busway portal at Wollongababba not Park Road.  Legacy Way connection is good but that means express from Toowong Roundabout

I do have a concern that Brisbane is building a transit network a project at a time with a clear overall network design. Each time a project is planned to network get more and more confusing when simplicity and legibility are key just behind frequency!!

[James]

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Scott Emerson

Underground's Legacy connection

Brisbane's newest tunnel will link up with Brisbane's future tunnel under a Newman Government plan to integrate public transport across south east Queensland.

If only we could have included a SW Busway with this thing, or at least some form of bus priority lanes with a deviation into Indooroopilly, then the places under the Legacy Way tunnel could have benefitted from HF services from the Centenary suburbs. 

With regards to the BUM - the train part is on a great alignment and it ticks all the boxes in this respect. The bus alignment is pretty poor because it doesn't fit in with the existing network. I think it might be a better idea to send it from George Street up to Central, then on to the Exhibition. Exhibition line should still be used as the exit point for this tunnel for rail.

Bus though, needs to follow a more City-Valley type alignment (possibly let the bus tunnel surface earlier?) in order to 'absorb' the City-Valley buses. This does remove the Legacy Way connection, though. Regardless, the busway should NOT connect to the INB as it does now - I'd much rather see all the buses just get dumped in Legacy Way, at least then you could maybe have a 234 - Carindale to Mt Ommaney via BUM/Legacy Way (a la the discussed 123 - 8MP/Chermside).

[Old Northern Road]

I thought the reason for going via George St was that tunnel didn't need to be as deep yet that George St station looks far deeper than the Albert St one. The George St station is in a far inferior position than the Albert St one. Also notice that all the buses have BCC livery. Clearly indicates that money is going to be continued to be wasted on BCC while the rest of Brisbane (where most of the future growth is going to occur) is going to completely miss out.

I'd much prefer to wait another 5-10 years for this project to be done properly than to end with this which we will be stuck with forever.

[Gazza]

If you are on the train from the south you would change at say Park Rd to go via Bridge to Roma St, much less walking and probably overall faster in a greater than 15min inner city frequency world.

Again, that's a double interchange if you are heading to Milton, Toowong or further west.

Look, as far as I'm concerned the work has been done with CRR, it looked at several options (Even going via Eagle St and hooking in near bowen hills for instance, or an allignment via central with a station at Spring Hill)

All things considered, the one that has been on the drawing board for the past 3 years or so was the one that was found to be most balanced. (For example, interchanging at Central was dismissed in favour of a Roma St interchange, since Central is already a bit overcrowded as it is, as well as more difficult construction)

It's a geometrical problem that a single underground line can only initally pass through a certain number of destinations.

Nobody had any real problem with the old CRR proposal and everyone was behind it. All that has changed now is the station at the southern end of the CBD is 200m west of where it was (And Park Rd has been dropped, but I think that can be fought for)

Once we start getting into stuff like splitting tunnels and running off street allignments that curve under skyscraper foundations then you are getting away from the whole efficiency of the single 15m wide bore that was going to make this somewhat viable.

[STB]

Is anyone a little bit concerned that this feels a bit like a band-aid solution when you consider that track amplification at either end of the tunnels looks like not happening, and will need to be done again in the future adding to the cost?

By the way, I do think it'd be wise to turn the upper level into a metro / light rail type service in the medium to long term (ie: after 2030) and kick the buses out of there.  Down Mains Road to say Browns Plains, and down to Loganholme at the very least would be ideal.  It'd require quite a cultural change though for both the public and the government.