Transport Discrimination

[#Metro]

RANT WARNING

I was recently made redundant from my workplace and have been searching for a new job. I have to say I am appalled by the number of ads that have 'must have own transport'. There are some good jobs down at Australia Trade Coast, around the Airport Precinct, Pinkenba, Sumner Park and Carole Park but then I see that they require you to own a car. Some of these businesses are located in absolutely (insert expletives) PT-IMPENETRABLE areas where you couldn't even get a train and bicycle combination to.

No-one is going to risk their job turning up late or have to take punishingly high cost taxis (I have done this - it is $20-$30 a pop) to make up for bad PT to be on time in the morning reliably for their job. I've previously worked for one employer who would dock my pay in 15 minute increments when I got caught on the odd occasion in busway congestion/pileups and came in late.

There has been a lot said about 'convenience' and not needing to transfer and direct services, but I tell you what, a connected network would have much greater coverage than what we have now and do more for blue collar, low income, unskilled and disadvantaged people than a no-transfer system. Also appalled by the lack of cross-town connections. How the hell am I supposed to go from Southside to Carole Park by 8.30 am reliably without wasting half a day going via the CBD, catching multiple trains/buses etc? One combination requires three buses, two transfers and two hours one way.

I have to toss half the jobs ads in the proverbial bin...

I'm sure there are reasons why industrial areas don't have good all day PT...

End Rant

[kazzac]

I would like to be able to do without a car for traveling to/from work every day but because of poor connections between train and. bus or train lines I can't. Too many times in the morning changing trains at Park Road station from Cleveland line to Beenleigh line didn't work out.ie if train on Cleveland line was 3 minutes late I would miss my connection >:(not to mention the poor counter peak frequency in the afternoon  from Salisbury inbound between 3pm and 4.30pm>(yes I am a "blue collar" worker.Taxis aren't cheap either, I would have to call for a taxi on my phone if I was running late ,I would usually pay $30-$40 cab fare

[Gazza]

Sumner Park and Carole Park

You can ride a bike to Carole Park (4.4km) from Richlands, or Sumner Park (2.6km) from Darra.

I'm sure there are reasons why industrial areas don't have good all day PT...

Because its often just a handful of workers in a big shed, so it's equivalent to a bus in a low density residential area, except you don't have the benefit of random trip generation during the day, because people are working, and aren't going to go far for lunch.

[longboi]

302 appears to be quite a popular route...but for anyone who has used it, are the majority of pax. TAFE students or workers?

If it's workers, what are others thoughts on counter-peak routes for other primarily industrial areas?

[#Metro]

The problem is reliability if you miss it and the burden of compliance with the timetable. If you miss the bus to work in estates like this, you are really really screwed and have to call up a taxi at short notice at considerable expense. This is hugely costly and if you have experience of doing this, like I have, can also catch you out as periods of rain or congestion or special events that day in other parts of the city can impact the timely supply of a taxi, getting you to work super late and the ire of the boss.

This is also why I don't like cutting late night service, even if there is low patronage. A taxi trip can easily be $30 a pop for 1 person. For $30 you can get a bus driver to drive a bus for one hour and serve more than 1 person.

As the costs mount up, it would actually be cheaper to drive, and significantly so.
This is why I always criticise calculations showing that PT is cheaper than cars - sometimes it is, often it is not because over-runs and taxi costs aren't considered. Fares are high in Brisbane anyway.

And I am sure this is why so many ads have Must Have Own Transport, even though none of the requirements of the job require you to transport goods of work in multiple locations.

[longboi]

So in that case is there even a PT-based solution? I think we can both agree HF services to Carole Park are a complete fantasy so really the second best option is carpool (I realise you can't organise this before getting the job) or looking at locations that are relatively close to PT where you could combine walking and/or a $10-15 taxi fare.

Also, don't totally write off a job because it states 'must have own transport'. Just give it a shot and if you're good enough you might be able to work something out 

[#Metro]

No, I have tried the whole taxi thing before and it is expensive as hell and still unreliable. One would need to move house as close as possible and then bike it IMHO.

Or just take time out and learn to drive... which is what I might do. With "direct services", I have to go into the CBD, then go out of the CBD then bike 4.5 km. Sounds like one of those ironman challenges. Bike + bus combinations don't work because you can't take bikes on buses, but you can take bikes on trains.

[ozbob]

The 463 gets into Carole Park LD.  Don't know if that is what you are after.  30 minute peak (we are fortunate) 60 minute out of peak

Goodna, Gailes, Wacol rail or from Forest Lake bus.  It is a mini ' Smart Bus '  ... lol

The 534 gets into Carole Park as well, but it is planned to change slightly in the review.  Browns Plains - Springfield Orion.  Has a one hour frequency.

[techblitz]

302 appears to be quite a popular route...but for anyone who has used it, are the majority of pax. TAFE students or workers?

If it's workers, what are others thoughts on counter-peak routes for other primarily industrial areas?

hemmant is a heavily industrialised area but mainly freight based.....everything is pretty much within walking distance of either lindum/hemmant rail luckily.
the first pm inbound 302 is mainly workers with the other 302`s picking up passengers consistently along kingsford smith.
combine with 303 and i guess you could say pinkenba/myrtletown are well served in peak.Even the stop in the middle of nowhere stop49 warner gets used!

i dont think port of brisbane is served at all.
acacia ridge industrial area could do better.The 540 may not be enough.
geebung/brendale industrial areas htg?
Coopers plains/archerfield not bad- 122
carole park 463 decently or? A decent amount of workers currently use thier bike from gailes station.
Perhaps some of the lesser used bus routes in the morning peak which pass near these industrial areas could allow workers to bring thier bike on board.

[somebody]

acacia ridge industrial area could do better.The 540 may not be enough.

There is also the 110, 115, 117, 122 depending on where in the area you are referring to.

[techblitz]

acacia ridge industrial area could do better.The 540 may not be enough.

There is also the 110, 115, 117, 122 depending on where in the area you are referring to.

bradman st/ingram rd which is also near jackson rd...around that area east of beaudesert rd.Seems that only the 540 stops near bradman st.Even then its a fair hike heading north from that stop.123 stops near this area as well on its ridicuously LONG journey

[somebody]

115 and 123 run past either end of the street, but it's a fairly long street.  About 2.6km.

[kazzac]

acacia ridge industrial area could do better.The 540 may not be enough.

There is also the 110, 115, 117, 122 depending on where in the area you are referring to.

I used to catch the first o/b 117 service of the day sometimes (after catching an i/bound 230 service)leaves about 6.08am from 'Gabba then hop off on Beaudesart Rd corner Evans road, then had to walk 10-15 minutes, if it was late then had to run to be at work before 7am>

[HappyTrainGuy]

Must have own transport has many reasons and many advantages these days. It really depends on the business your working for as it can vary between job to job depending on whats required, position, staff numbers, qualifications etc. Its moreso important with industrial/shift workers as some shift work might be outside the scope of PT times and areas. Working overtime can also mean workers might finish when there's no PT available. Take the railways. Guys that do mtce on the trains might be able to catch a train to work for the arvo shift but if they have to work an hour or two overtime there's a very high chance that there will be no PT to get home from work. The very same if they get called in early for whatever reason. The same applies to drivers and guards. They might be able to catch the train to start their shift but if they get called in to start earlier there might not be a PT option available. Station staff have to have their own transport as one day they might be rosted on to work at Bray Park during the day and then the next day they might be rosted on for the last train on a friday night shift at Zillmere. The same goes for the track gangs aswell.

[Stillwater]

The big divide:  http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/citys-economic-divide-widens-report-20130506-2j2nj.html

Just one finding:

According to the Grattan Institute, less than 10 per cent of all jobs in the city can be reached within a 45-minute drive, leaving people in outer-lying areas at risk during periods of economic depression.

"People in these suburbs have access to so few of the jobs available in our cities that they are extremely vulnerable in a downturn," Ms Kelly says.

"In this case, what's good for the economy is good for the fair go."

The Grattan report recommends increasing the supply and diversity of dwellings in existing suburbs, and consideration of road-user charging to ensure that road space is preserved for the most productive uses as well as a way to raise funds for improved public transport.

[#Metro]

A lot of blue collar and unskilled / low skill jobs aren't even in the city, they're in the suburbs, outskirts, in office parks and the like. Businesses in the CBD are things like Banks, Financial Firms, Consulting, Upper-End hotels and retail.

With a direct service network, the buses are all going the wrong way. To go from southside to Carole Pk, you'd need to go into the CBD then out again... or spend 2 hours just to cross the city via the suburbs.

[HappyTrainGuy]

A lot of blue collar and unskilled / low skill jobs aren't even in the city, they're in the suburbs, outskirts, in office parks and the like. Businesses in the CBD are things like Banks, Financial Firms, Consulting, Upper-End hotels and retail.

With a direct service network, the buses are all going the wrong way. To go from southside to Carole Pk, you'd need to go into the CBD then out again... or spend 2 hours just to cross the city via the suburbs.

Or in the case of the 306 which services the industrial area and local residents at Banyo/Nudgee via the Shorncliffe line gets cut back to Toombul Interchange-CCBS depending on the time of day. The industrial area at Geebung looked like it was getting it's very first route to Sandgate Road to service the area with the Translink review but that's not going to happen any time soon

[Fares_Fair]

RANT WARNING

I was recently made redundant from my workplace and have been searching for a new job. I have to say I am appalled by the number of ads that have 'must have own transport'. There are some good jobs down at Australia Trade Coast, around the Airport Precinct, Pinkenba, Sumner Park and Carole Park but then I see that they require you to own a car. Some of these businesses are located in absolutely (insert expletives) PT-IMPENETRABLE areas where you couldn't even get a train and bicycle combination to.

No-one is going to risk their job turning up late or have to take punishingly high cost taxis (I have done this - it is $20-$30 a pop) to make up for bad PT to be on time in the morning reliably for their job. I've previously worked for one employer who would dock my pay in 15 minute increments when I got caught on the odd occasion in busway congestion/pileups and came in late.

There has been a lot said about 'convenience' and not needing to transfer and direct services, but I tell you what, a connected network would have much greater coverage than what we have now and do more for blue collar, low income, unskilled and disadvantaged people than a no-transfer system. Also appalled by the lack of cross-town connections. How the hell am I supposed to go from Southside to Carole Park by 8.30 am reliably without wasting half a day going via the CBD, catching multiple trains/buses etc? One combination requires three buses, two transfers and two hours one way.

I have to toss half the jobs ads in the proverbial bin...

I'm sure there are reasons why industrial areas don't have good all day PT...

End Rant

Hi Lapdog,

I hope you find suitable employment soon.

Kind regards
Fares_Fair

[#Metro]

Thanks. I will have to cut the bones budget and eat dry food now.
A lesson has been learned, live within walking distance of work or short bicycle ride.

Selling things has also been a pain in the backside. My fridge is almost brand new and to transport that to Cash Converters will cost something like $100+ dollars in a ute/removalist. Not worth it, cheaper to toss it out or donate it to charity for free. If I had a car, I could hook up a trailer for next to nothing and tow it. Once when I was shopping at IKEA, it was also a pain, had to arrange delivery, hit with massive delivery fees.

There are so many reasons to drive.

When I have the money, I have decided to take driving lessons, it is just too hard now.

[kazzac]

A lot of blue collar and unskilled / low skill jobs aren't even in the city, they're in the suburbs, outskirts, in office parks and the like. Businesses in the CBD are things like Banks, Financial Firms, Consulting, Upper-End hotels and retail.

With a direct service network, the buses are all going the wrong way. To go from southside to Carole Pk, you'd need to go intof the CBD then out again... or spend 2 hours just to cross the city via the suburbs.

I agree there is no proper crosstown routes to get to the outer suburbs  and industrial areas where most blue collar/unskilled jobs are.:(that early o/b 117 service I used to catch(after 6am) had mainly factory workers on it

[#Metro]

The Great Circle Line is not changing under the BCC review. Appears to be retained as is.

[SurfRail]

The Great Circle Line is not changing under the BCC review. Appears to be retained as is.

Because there's nothing wrong with it.... DAS IS NICHT BROKEN!

[#Metro]

Because there's nothing wrong with it.... DAS IS NICHT BROKEN!

Someone needs to make one of those Hitler Downfall Meme's about bus review being not broken...

[hU0N]

A lot of blue collar and unskilled / low skill jobs aren't even in the city, they're in the suburbs, outskirts, in office parks and the like. Businesses in the CBD are things like Banks, Financial Firms, Consulting, Upper-End hotels and retail.

With a direct service network, the buses are all going the wrong way. To go from southside to Carole Pk, you'd need to go into the CBD then out again... or spend 2 hours just to cross the city via the suburbs.

The problem is that, according to council statistics, 25% of jobs in Greater Brisbane are located in the CBD.  Another 25% are located within 5km of the CBD (that's a circle Albion - Morningside - Greenslopes - Taringa - Newmarket - Albion).  Whatever network of transport you create, most of the passengers and most of the benefits to society (in the foreseeable future) are going to be derived from transporting people on CBD bound routes.  The other 50% of jobs are so spread out that your chance of getting reasonable transport between an outer suburb residence and a non-CBD job is always going to be massive lottery.

[hU0N]

At the same time, I feel for your predicament.  Good luck with the job hunting!

[#Metro]

The other 50% of jobs are so spread out that your chance of getting reasonable transport between an outer suburb residence and a non-CBD job is always going to be massive lottery.

Upgrading the GCL to all day SmartBUS standards would do the trick for much of the city, although not all. It hasn't been upgraded since the 1980s or so. When one considers the massive drain welfare has on the budget and that people on this are in the least best position to take out car loans and pay fuel...

[ozbob]

http://www.danielbowen.com/2010/04/02/more-smartbuses/



Running empty BUZ buses every few minutes  in the evening at a cost to everywhere else .. welcome to Brisbane ...

[HappyTrainGuy]

Running empty BUZ buses every few minutes  in the evening at a cost to everywhere else .. welcome to Brisbane ...

Saw a crowded 333 today followed by a 330 or a 340 with about 4 people on it. WHEN WILL WE HAVE A PROPER NETWORK!!!

[ozbob]

Got some good news and bad news HTG ...

Bad news first:  Never whilst BCC is running the show ...

Good news:  Give me time ...   

[longboi]

Running empty BUZ buses every few minutes  in the evening at a cost to everywhere else .. welcome to Brisbane ...

Saw a crowded 333 today followed by a 330 or a 340 with about 4 people on it. WHEN WILL WE HAVE A PROPER NETWORK!!!

On a positive note - if you can crack the BT code you can score yourself a seat, avoid the crowd and get a quick trip to Chermside

[#Metro]

Some jobs going at Carole Park. Thought I could perhaps move to Ipswich and use a bike at Gailes to make the connection by bicycle ... and then I remembered that you can't take your bike on QR trains in peak hour if it is going towards the CBD unless it is fold up.

http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/railservices/city/pages/bicycles.aspx

I am convinced the world is designed for cars, through and through!!

Search continues

[ozbob]

Guess after the P161 deluxe air,  the 463 would be just too traumatic ... 

Go for it with a view that once established you may well able to get a ride with someone for petrol cost, using the 463 bus as a fall back.  Other option is camp at Darra and you are always anti peak ?

[ozbob]

Frequency counter peak west of Darra is pretty sh%tty of course, but Darra <-> town is very good around the clock.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Good span of hours too. Only line that has a better span is the Caboolture line.

[#Metro]

I thought of Springfield Lakes... but then there's no bikeway there.... whooops 

[johnnigh]

You can put your folding bike on the train in peak hour, maybe with a bag around it, but I've not needed one. My Dahon from Epic Cycles at Rosalie cost under $500 some years ago, should be cheaper now.
Alternatively, a bike box  at Gailes or other station might be available for a returnable deposit.
A friend rides his pedelec from Taringa to Wacol, into the box and he takes the train to Ipswich to work.

[#Metro]

You can put your folding bike on the train in peak hour, maybe with a bag around it, but I've not needed one. My Dahon from Epic Cycles at Rosalie cost under $500 some years ago, should be cheaper now.
Alternatively, a bike box  at Gailes or other station might be available for a returnable deposit.
A friend rides his pedelec from Taringa to Wacol, into the box and he takes the train to Ipswich to work.

This is an idea, a practical one too.

[Golliwog]

You can put your folding bike on the train in peak hour, maybe with a bag around it, but I've not needed one. My Dahon from Epic Cycles at Rosalie cost under $500 some years ago, should be cheaper now.
Alternatively, a bike box  at Gailes or other station might be available for a returnable deposit.
A friend rides his pedelec from Taringa to Wacol, into the box and he takes the train to Ipswich to work.

This is an idea, a practical one too.

That's what I did when I was working at Buranda/Stones corner. There was of course a Train-Bus or Train-Train connection from Ferny Grove, but given the early start I found it easier to store a bike at Park Rd and ride from there.

[#Metro]

I think it would be too much to take the job at Carole Park. Too much risk, too much chance for unreliability, then you'd be on the taxi treadmill being charged $25 - $30 to get to and from work in the morning. This is why I don't believe people when they say PT is cheaper - it isn't once you take into account the extra time and also penalties for taxis when you're urgent/desperate.

There is another job going at Trade Coast. Glad we advocated for route 590, it goes through the industrial estate and perhaps I can walk...

[#Metro]

Went for a ride on the bus as a 'trial run', it is doable by PT, but have to walk to make the connection.

Applying for job today... filling out the internet form and come across this question.



It's clear. If you catch public transport, and you don't drive, employers DON'T want to know you!!