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Online ozbob

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Open payment ...
« on: April 26, 2013, 07:35:09 AM »
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Cubic Transportation ‏@CubicTS 5m

In our latest video CTS President Steve Shewmaker discusses #Tube150 and open payment in London - http://bit.ly/11HUfq6  #transit

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2013, 07:41:05 AM »
Cubic --> An Update on Open Payment

Quote
... Every day in London, 30,000 people get on a bus without enough money on their Oyster® Card.  They either have to pay a higher cash fare, or take the time to reload their card before getting on.  The purpose of open loop payment is to give these travelers an alternative, in addition to making using public transport more convenient for occasional passengers and city visitors ...

This might be the way forward for a paperless environment ...
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Online ozbob

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2013, 04:09:19 PM »
Chicago have moved onto an open system ..

Ventra --> http://www.transitchicago.com/ventra/

Quote
Ventra

Starting in 2013, Chicago area transit riders will have a new and more convenient way to pay for rides on CTA and Pace.

Introducing: Ventra.

Ventra is our new payment system that will allow customers to use a single fare card for regional transit throughout the Chicago area. You'll be able to pay for CTA and Pace bus and train rides with the following contactless payment methods:

    Ventra Card, a transit and prepaid debit card that can be used for transit and everyday purchases;
    Ventra Tickets, for single-ride and 1-Day passes; and
    Personal, bank-issued credit or debit cards.

Simply “tap” your payment card at 'L' stations or to board any CTA or Pace bus.

We'll continue offering special fares and multi-day passes, including 30-Day and 7-Day Passes, and will still accept cash on buses. You'll also, eventually, be able to use compatible mobile phones to pay for rides on CTA and Pace.

Ventra will be available to all CTA riders and on Pace’s fixed route buses in the summer of 2013. Ventra will replace CTA and Pace’s existing fare systems in 2014.

Chicago will be the first major U.S. city to adopt an open payment system for transit and speed up boarding.

Ventra will help improve efficiency in several areas of our system. Since nearly all entries to our system will be “tap and go,” that’s less time people will spend waiting in lines at turnstiles and less time buses need to wait while people board and pay. Magnetic cards have helped with this, but still take more time than a contactless transaction does.

Many customers will be able to use the bank cards they already have. There will also be a significant increase in places to purchase or add value to Ventra Cards to purchase fares, which will eliminate long lines of people at vending machines.

The new system is intended to eliminate the multiple magnetic-stripe cards and the Chicago Card/Chicago Card Plus currently used for fare payments. You'll still be able to purchase passes like the 1-day, 3-Day, 7-Day, 30-day and other reduced and free passes. These fare values will be loaded onto the new pre-paid Ventra Cards with cash or tied to existing bank accounts (in order to use your personal credit/debit card, or your NFC, payment-enabled phone).
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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2013, 08:52:12 PM »
An open system only works with a fixed fare.  It can't handle variable fares so needs to be more expensive than the most expensive go card bus fare to work for buses.

Offline Get_a_Wriggle_On

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2013, 09:34:02 PM »
I put it to you that implementing an open payment system on the Brisbane system is,
while a great political and business marketing sleight of hand, is likely to be an
absolute cash cow for the supplier, at the public's expense.

The supplier's argument would be that every reader and ticketing machine computer would
require replacing with new ones, so there's a hardware price and a development price
for all that to integrate into a revamped back office system. Very big bucks. See their
withered clawing hand extended...

While ticket office machines and vending machines would already be PCI compliant
(Payment Card Industry security standards) because they have EFTPOS devices, none of the
other QR, bus or ferry equipment would be. Further, both the supplier and Translink are
possibly dead keen for such a tech' upgrade, because it appears the readers and machines
they have now barely cope with the data sets they have.

Of course all that comes down to is lack of competence in prior system and contract
project planning and management, an inescapable pox on Brisbane's public transport
system... just watch how this supplier mob goes in Sydney. Same old commercial tricks, but
I think TfNSW have some smart cookies, and they learned a lot from their Tcard debacle.

Online ozbob

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2013, 04:21:44 AM »
An open system only works with a fixed fare.  It can't handle variable fares so needs to be more expensive than the most expensive go card bus fare to work for buses.

Good point.  Hard to see how it could work for variable fares ...

Guess we are stuck with paper and mediocrity for a while yet ...  selling pre-loaded go cards on Brisbane Transport buses is unlikely.

The only foreseeable improvement is wider top-up access eg. through EFTPOS ala mobile phone vouchers ...
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Online ozbob

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2013, 04:24:30 AM »
...

Of course all that comes down to is lack of competence in prior system and contract
project planning and management, an inescapable pox on Brisbane's public transport
system... just watch how this supplier mob goes in Sydney. Same old commercial tricks, but
I think TfNSW have some smart cookies, and they learned a lot from their Tcard debacle.

Got to agree Mr Wriggle ....  shocker ...
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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2013, 04:07:08 AM »
LONDONIST --> One Year On From Contactless Payment, We’re Not Really Using It
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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2014, 09:16:55 AM »
TfL --> Take part in our contactless payment pilot

Quote
Contactless payment cards have been accepted on London buses since December 2012. From early 2014, you will be able to use them to pay for travel on Tube, tram, DLR, London Overground and some National Rail services.

We're inviting customers to help us test the system before we start accepting contactless payment cards on these services ...

More --> here!
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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2014, 05:42:46 AM »
Shanghai.Daily.com --> Get public transport cards on phones
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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2014, 05:17:06 AM »
airrailNEWS --> Washington Metro awards Accenture major contract for new electronic fare payment system to improve customer experience

Quote
... The $184 million new system will be designed to provide a state of the art system for Metro customers that enables them to continue to use SmarTrip cards, while expanding fare payment to chip-enabled credit cards, federal government ID cards, and mobile phones using near field communications (NFC) ...
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Online ozbob

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2014, 08:25:40 AM »
TfL: Contactless payment is expanding

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Online ozbob

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2014, 03:40:09 AM »
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TfL Ways to Pay ‏@TfLWaystoPay

Another way to pay: Contactless will cost the same as an adult Oyster pay as you go fare. Already works on buses. http://t.co/2FrJmd3akO

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Online ozbob

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2014, 08:00:08 PM »
AirRail News --> Smartphones turn passengers into Smartcustomers
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Online ozbob

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2014, 09:07:08 AM »
The Guardian --> Contactless bank cards could see tube customers ditch Oyster cards
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Online ozbob

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2014, 03:53:54 AM »
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TfL Ways to Pay @TfLWaystoPay

Contactless arrives Sept 16, will cost the same as adult Oyster pay as you go. Daily and Monday-Sunday capping apply

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Online ozbob

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2014, 06:55:23 AM »
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Transport for London ‏@TfLOfficial

From 16 September customers using contactless on Tube, tram, DLR London Overground & National Rail services will get daily & Mon-Sun capping
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Offline STB

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2014, 08:33:30 AM »
I wouldn't mind seeing this as being a way to completely phase out paper tickets.  Pretty much everyone will have a contactless card - they can easily ask their local bank about getting one, if they don't have one already - and if they are infrequent travellers who don't feel that a Go Card is right for them, or they end up on a bus without any money on their Go Card  and have no cash on them to top up, then they could use this method instead. 

Have the same fares across the board between contactless and Go Cards with daily caps depending on where you initially touch on, plus weekly rewards such as half price travel say after 8 journeys, plus a standard account using your email address on the TransLink website to check your journey history and top up/register etc your Go Card and that's all you really need I think.

I'm rather excited by this technology, and I hope Brisbane takes this up and at least gives it a go.

Online ozbob

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2014, 09:02:58 AM »
I would hope that the next generation ticketing will include open payment as an option.

It is time Queensland was welcomed into the real ticketing world ...
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Online ozbob

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2014, 06:51:05 AM »
Metro (Washington) --> Riders invited to test new fare payment technology

Quote
Payment IconsMetro is inviting riders to help test its next-generation fare payment system using new payment methods, such as contactless credit cards and mobile phones.

Today, Metro began the process of recruiting up to 3,000 riders to participate in the pilot program, which will begin in January and last about three months. Riders selected to test the new electronic payment system (NEPP) will use transit cards, contactless bankcards or mobile wallets on their smartphones to ride Metrorail or Metrobus, and to pay for parking at selected locations.

Pilot participants will use new-generation faregates that will be installed at 10 Metrorail stations and new payment devices on six bus routes.
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Online ozbob

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2014, 02:25:22 PM »
City AM --> Mastercard "Fare Free Friday”: Free travel on London transport on 14 and 28 November using TFL's contactless payment
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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2015, 04:46:26 PM »
Railway Gazette --> TfL plans to replace Oyster smart card technology

Quote
   
UK: Transport for London is exploring options to replace the technology which is currently used inside its Oyster smart cards.

Under the proposal, future Oyster cards would incorporate the contactless payment card technology which is used by bank credit and debit cards. This would allow fare payments to be handled using the proprietary Transit Transaction Model of payment rules and software which TfL developed to enable passengers to pay for travel using contactless bank cards instead of a dedicated smart card.

The Transit Transaction Model was rolled out across rail modes last year, and by moving the focus of the ticketing system from the smart card to the back office has provided TfL with the ability to offer CPC users a greater range of ticketing products, including a more flexible range of fare capping periods than was possible with the older Oyster technology. The development of a TfL CPC Oyster card would extend these benefits to smart card users.

The existing Oyster brand would be retained for the TfL CPC, with just the card technology changing. Passengers would apply for and manage the new card online, with a refundable deposit but no transaction fees for travel. The TfL CPC would only be used for travel, and would not offer the ability to make other payments such as at coffee shops.

If the supply industry response proves positive, the TfL CPC Oyster cards could be ready for passenger use in early 2016.
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Online ozbob

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2015, 03:37:32 AM »
Railway Gazette --> Hands-free mobile ticketing demonstration
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Offline Derwan

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2015, 04:06:47 PM »
Railway Gazette --> Hands-free mobile ticketing demonstration

I actually wondered if something like this was possible.  It might be difficult to build in at remote stations though.  It might only be possible for things like subways.
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Online ozbob

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2015, 05:46:32 PM »
Cubic --> Mobile Payment
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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2015, 11:40:05 AM »
Apple pay coming to London Tube http://qz.com/422761/apple-pay-is-coming-to-londons-tube/

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2015, 11:42:11 AM »
A good pay medium for tourists and infrequent users would work well here for PT uptake

Offline Derwan

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2015, 01:02:53 PM »
A good pay medium for tourists and infrequent users would work well here for PT uptake

Definitely!  Apple and Cubic appear to have bypassed the issue of "How do you calculate the fare if you use an ordinary credit card to touch on/off?"

The touch-on location can be stored in the phone and when the touch-off is processed (or time limit is exceeded), the fare can be charged to the credit card linked to Apple Pay.  You'll be able to view your touch on/off history on the phone.

I hope that Cubic is also talking to Google and Microsoft.  This needs to work with all major platforms.
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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2015, 01:04:14 PM »
Makes sense I hope that cubic makes Brisbane a test city for the new technology

Online Stillwater

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2015, 03:57:42 PM »
But will the state government and BCC allow Brisbane to be a test city for the new technology?

Offline Derwan

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2015, 07:05:04 PM »
But will the state government and BCC allow Brisbane to be a test city for the new technology?

Actually - London is the "test city".  :)

After reading a bit in another forum (on Apple Pay), it would appear that it is more likely that Apple Pay will simple lever off the technology already in place, which is the ability to use any credit card (with ContactLess) for travel.  After all, Apple Pay will work anywhere that Contactless is accepted - so there is nothing extra that needs to be done for Apple Pay to work.  (Announcing it as part of the roll-out is probably a marketing method.)

Some more reading:

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/march/tfl-named-fastest-growing-contactless-merchant-in-europe

http://news.microsoft.com/en-gb/2015/03/17/six-months-of-contactless-journeys-on-londons-transport-network-powered-by-microsoft-technology/
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Offline tuxcomputers

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2015, 04:47:32 PM »
The supplier's argument would be that every reader and ticketing machine computer would
require replacing with new ones, so there's a hardware price and a development price
for all that to integrate into a revamped back office system. Very big bucks. See their
withered clawing hand extended...
Wrong, try downloading an NFC app on your phone and tap your gocard, then tap your credit card. They have different card formats but that is software not hardware.

NFC is NFC, the readers are capable of NFC and since they are the same readers used worldwide they support the same functionality any other location with the same hardware, including London.

You could not be more wrong if you tried.

Offline tuxcomputers

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2015, 04:49:17 PM »
An open system only works with a fixed fare.  It can't handle variable fares so needs to be more expensive than the most expensive go card bus fare to work for buses.
Really? Since when? Tell us all how you came to this conclusion, enlighten us.

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2015, 05:11:11 PM »
It can work. The software remembers your encrypted card number when you touch on (Touch on authorises the default fare 5.00 Aud) then when you touch off it then recalculates the correct fare, charging your card.

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2015, 12:40:55 AM »
An open system only works with a fixed fare.  It can't handle variable fares so needs to be more expensive than the most expensive go card bus fare to work for buses.
Really? Since when? Tell us all how you came to this conclusion, enlighten us.

I'm sure he would if his comment wasn't over 2 years old and he still posted here...

Offline Derwan

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2015, 08:43:23 AM »
You could not be more wrong if you tried.

Please offer your opinion or knowledge without attacking others or using aggressive comments like this.  Thanks.  :)
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Online ozbob

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2015, 11:43:46 AM »
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Railway Gazette ‏@railwaygazette 29m

48% of S Korean inter-city psgrs now travel w/smartphone ticketing. Ticket barriers have been largely removed #HSR

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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2015, 01:12:14 PM »
Not sure if this article has been posted but Cubic can work along side TransLink to introduce/instigate open payment; Making the Network a step closer to paperless ticketing and giving value for money for casual uses and tourists  http://www.cubic.com/News/Blog/Articles/ID/1290/Open-Payment-Blossoms-Cubic-Introduces-Nextaccount

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2016, 06:26:06 PM »
NFC to play a greater roll in Public Transport Ticketing ---> http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160217005344/en/NFC-Forum-American-Public-Transportation-Association-Sign

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Re: Open payment ...
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2016, 08:20:13 AM »
Railway Gazette --> Android Pay for pay-as-you-go travel in London

Quote
   
UK: Transport for London announced it had become ‘the first transport organisation in the world to accept Android Pay as a method of ticketing’ with the UK launch of Android Pay on May 18. Passengers can use the Android Pay app on mobile devices to travel on London Underground, bus, tram and most rail services in London.

This follows the launch of Apple Pay in July 2015. Passengers touch their smart phones on the yellow card readers in the same way as an Oyster smart card or a contactless payment card, with TfL’s back office systems applying the appropriate capping to calculate the best fare.

‘It’s great to see another mobile ticketing option introduced into the market’ said Shashi Verma, Chief Technology Officer & Director of Customer Experience at TfL. ‘Android is a popular mobile operating system and we have been working closely with Google to ensure that Android Pay is fully incorporated into the capital’s transport network.’

TfL said more than 10 million unique bank cards from more than 80 countries have been used for over 400 million contactless journeys since contactless payment was launched on London buses in December 2012 and on London Underground and National Rail services in September 2014. A third of all pay-as-you-go journeys in London are now made using contactless payments, with TfL’s network accounting for one in 10 contactless transactions in the UK, making it one of the largest contactless merchants worldwide.

Pay-as-you-go using contactless and Oyster was extended beyond London to Gatwick Airport earlier this year and TfL said it is ‘now working to further expand the benefits of pay-as-you-go to all London airports as well as other key locations around the commuter belt.’ Discussions are ongoing with Govia Thameslink Railway for an extension to Luton Airport which forms part of the train operator’s franchise agreement, while future extension to Stansted Airport would be subject to an agreement with Abellio Greater Anglia. 
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