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Author Topic: 9 Apr 2013: SEQ: Suburban rail network needs Automatic Train Protection too!  (Read 7559 times)

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Media release 9th April 2013



SEQ: Suburban rail network needs Automatic Train Protection too!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said the introduction of Automatic Train Protection (ATP) which incorporates improved signalling is well overdue on the suburban rail network in SEQ (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Automatic Train Protection (ATP) is a system that relays signal information, track speed information and other track information to trains, and can automatically slow or stop trains if they exceed the track speeds or approach signals at STOP at too high a speed. It will also stop trains that pass a signal at STOP unless a specific procedure is followed."

"There are concerns with rail safety generally and it is time that ATP was introduced on the suburban rail network."

ATP is needed because:

Safety - the current Automatic Warning System installed on Queensland Rail's suburban network will not prevent crashes or derailments caused by:

1) Excessive speed around corners or through switches.
2) Excessive speed through red signals compromising the safe stopping distance.
3) Excessive speed through yellow signals, again compromising the safe stopping distance.
4) Excessive speed on approach to dead end tracks, such as at termini.

ATP will prevent the majority of crashes caused by the above.

Capacity - ATP in conjunction with a high capacity signalling system such as European Railway Traffic Management System - ERTMS - level 2 allows for higher train frequencies and/or higher reliability.  This is important as we approach maximum capacity limits on the Merivale Bridge.

Cost savings - ERTMS level 2 has less track wayside equipment, reducing equipment maintenance costs.  Longer term significant cost savings.

Open market - as ERTMS is standards based, multiple manufacturers can bid for contracts. Multiple manufacturers can also be involved in a contract. Leads times may be faster, and approval processes may be simplified.

"It appears that moves to implement ATP have stalled (3).  We can really afford to wait any longer?"

References:

1. Automatic Train Protection (ATP) http://www.railsafe.org.au/section.jsp?id=8684

2. The European Railway Traffic Management System (ERTMS)  http://www.ertms.net/ertms/ertms-in-brief.aspx

3. Rail Safety Systems Assessment of the South East Queensland Rail Network http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/railsafety/rail%20safety%20systems%20assessment%20of%20seq%20rail%20network%20update%202.pdf

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 03:46:29 AM by ozbob »
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Discussion thread --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=9586.msg123932#msg123932
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Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow

@scottemersonmp What's the plan from here? Segways or signals? --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=9832.msg123931#msg123931 … #qldpol #auspol #ausvotes
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Couriermail --> Queensland Rail Citytrain services on time more often, but running more red lights

Quote
,,, But Queensland Rail insiders have suggested intense pressure on train crews to keep to schedule is to blame for the decline in safety standards.

One concerned train crew member went so far as to accuse management of "putting lives at risk to inflate on-time running targets".

He said in the worst example, a full travel train (The Spirit of the Outback) was ordered to go through the scene of an overhead dewirement at Bowen Hills station, resulting in a severe electric shock to one of the drivers.

"It was ordered to go through before the scene had been inspected or cleared by safety personnel," said the crew member.

"It put the lives of all passengers and staff on that train at risk."

Robert Dow from commuter advocacy group RAIL Back on Track said the rise in SPAD was of concern.

"That is a reflection of some pressure to improve on-time performance particularly at peak times," Mr Dow said.

"It's another indication we need automatic train protection on the rail network."

Automatic train protection is a system that relays signal, track speed and other information to trains and can automatically slow or stop trains if they approach signal at too high a speed.

It is in place on the rail network outside of southeast Queensland.
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Online ozbob

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Sent to all outlets:

9th September 2013

Greetings,

Queensland Rail Citytrain services on time more often, but running more red lights

--> http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-rail-citytrain-services-on-time-more-often-but-running-more-red-lights/story-fnihsrf2-1226714737879

Automatic Train Protection (ATP) will give a boost to peak linear train density.  More trains, closer together but safer.

In view of the public transport paralysis with respect to Cross River Rail, ATP for the suburban network should be the next step.  ATP could also allow a change to Driver Only Operation (DOO), this would generate considerable cost advantages as well. Melbourne's train network is DOO for example.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Media release 9th April 2013



SEQ: Suburban rail network needs Automatic Train Protection too!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said the introduction of Automatic Train Protection (ATP) which incorporates improved signalling is well overdue on the suburban rail network in SEQ (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Automatic Train Protection (ATP) is a system that relays signal information, track speed information and other track information to trains, and can automatically slow or stop trains if they exceed the track speeds or approach signals at STOP at too high a speed. It will also stop trains that pass a signal at STOP unless a specific procedure is followed."

"There are concerns with rail safety generally and it is time that ATP was introduced on the suburban rail network."

ATP is needed because:

Safety - the current Automatic Warning System installed on Queensland Rail's suburban network will not prevent crashes or derailments caused by:

1) Excessive speed around corners or through switches.
2) Excessive speed through red signals compromising the safe stopping distance.
3) Excessive speed through yellow signals, again compromising the safe stopping distance.
4) Excessive speed on approach to dead end tracks, such as at termini.

ATP will prevent the majority of crashes caused by the above.

Capacity - ATP in conjunction with a high capacity signalling system such as European Railway Traffic Management System - ERTMS - level 2 allows for higher train frequencies and/or higher reliability.  This is important as we approach maximum capacity limits on the Merivale Bridge.

Cost savings - ERTMS level 2 has less track wayside equipment, reducing equipment maintenance costs.  Longer term significant cost savings.

Open market - as ERTMS is standards based, multiple manufacturers can bid for contracts. Multiple manufacturers can also be involved in a contract. Leads times may be faster, and approval processes may be simplified.

"It appears that moves to implement ATP have stalled (3).  We can really afford to wait any longer?"

References:

1. Automatic Train Protection (ATP) http://www.railsafe.org.au/section.jsp?id=8684

2. The European Railway Traffic Management System (ERTMS)  http://www.ertms.net/ertms/ertms-in-brief.aspx

3. Rail Safety Systems Assessment of the South East Queensland Rail Network http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/railsafety/rail%20safety%20systems%20assessment%20of%20seq%20rail%20network%20update%202.pdf

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org
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Couriermail --> Trains continue to skid in wet weather, sliding up to 13m on southeast Queensland tracks
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Sent to all outlets:

18th September 2013

Re: SEQ: Suburban rail network needs Automatic Train Protection too!

Greetings,

More the reason we need Automatic Train Protection.

Couriermail --> Trains continue to skid in wet weather, sliding up to 13m on southeast Queensland tracks

Fitting sanders is the universal solution to the braking issue.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org


Sent to all outlets:

9th September 2013

Greetings,

Queensland Rail Citytrain services on time more often, but running more red lights

--> http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-rail-citytrain-services-on-time-more-often-but-running-more-red-lights/story-fnihsrf2-1226714737879

Automatic Train Protection (ATP) will give a boost to peak linear train density.  More trains, closer together but safer.

In view of the public transport paralysis with respect to Cross River Rail, ATP for the suburban network should be the next step.  ATP could also allow a change to Driver Only Operation (DOO), this would generate considerable cost advantages as well. Melbourne's train network is DOO for example.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Media release 9th April 2013



SEQ: Suburban rail network needs Automatic Train Protection too!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said the introduction of Automatic Train Protection (ATP) which incorporates improved signalling is well overdue on the suburban rail network in SEQ (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Automatic Train Protection (ATP) is a system that relays signal information, track speed information and other track information to trains, and can automatically slow or stop trains if they exceed the track speeds or approach signals at STOP at too high a speed. It will also stop trains that pass a signal at STOP unless a specific procedure is followed."

"There are concerns with rail safety generally and it is time that ATP was introduced on the suburban rail network."

ATP is needed because:

Safety - the current Automatic Warning System installed on Queensland Rail's suburban network will not prevent crashes or derailments caused by:

1) Excessive speed around corners or through switches.
2) Excessive speed through red signals compromising the safe stopping distance.
3) Excessive speed through yellow signals, again compromising the safe stopping distance.
4) Excessive speed on approach to dead end tracks, such as at termini.

ATP will prevent the majority of crashes caused by the above.

Capacity - ATP in conjunction with a high capacity signalling system such as European Railway Traffic Management System - ERTMS - level 2 allows for higher train frequencies and/or higher reliability.  This is important as we approach maximum capacity limits on the Merivale Bridge.

Cost savings - ERTMS level 2 has less track wayside equipment, reducing equipment maintenance costs.  Longer term significant cost savings.

Open market - as ERTMS is standards based, multiple manufacturers can bid for contracts. Multiple manufacturers can also be involved in a contract. Leads times may be faster, and approval processes may be simplified.

"It appears that moves to implement ATP have stalled (3).  We can really afford to wait any longer?"

References:

1. Automatic Train Protection (ATP) http://www.railsafe.org.au/section.jsp?id=8684

2. The European Railway Traffic Management System (ERTMS)  http://www.ertms.net/ertms/ertms-in-brief.aspx

3. Rail Safety Systems Assessment of the South East Queensland Rail Network http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/railsafety/rail%20safety%20systems%20assessment%20of%20seq%20rail%20network%20update%202.pdf

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Online ozbob

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Couriermail --> Queensland Rail safety hit by red light running, passenger falls at stations
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Sent to all outlets:

16th November 2013

SEQ: Suburban rail network needs Automatic Train Protection too!

Greetings,

As the Minister's statement indicated ( http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2013/11/14/motorists-take-heed-around-level-crossings ) Signals Passed at Danger is a concern.  Time to move to the next level of train protection.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

=======================================

Media release 9th April 2013 re-released 16th November 2013



SEQ: Suburban rail network needs Automatic Train Protection too!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said the introduction of Automatic Train Protection (ATP) which incorporates improved signalling is well overdue on the suburban rail network in SEQ (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Automatic Train Protection (ATP) is a system that relays signal information, track speed information and other track information to trains, and can automatically slow or stop trains if they exceed the track speeds or approach signals at STOP at too high a speed. It will also stop trains that pass a signal at STOP unless a specific procedure is followed."

"There are concerns with rail safety generally and it is time that ATP was introduced on the suburban rail network."

ATP is needed because:

Safety - the current Automatic Warning System installed on Queensland Rail's suburban network will not prevent crashes or derailments caused by:

1) Excessive speed around corners or through switches.
2) Excessive speed through red signals compromising the safe stopping distance.
3) Excessive speed through yellow signals, again compromising the safe stopping distance.
4) Excessive speed on approach to dead end tracks, such as at termini.

ATP will prevent the majority of crashes caused by the above.

Capacity - ATP in conjunction with a high capacity signalling system such as European Railway Traffic Management System - ERTMS - level 2 allows for higher train frequencies and/or higher reliability.  This is important as we approach maximum capacity limits on the Merivale Bridge.

Cost savings - ERTMS level 2 has less track wayside equipment, reducing equipment maintenance costs.  Longer term significant cost savings.

Open market - as ERTMS is standards based, multiple manufacturers can bid for contracts. Multiple manufacturers can also be involved in a contract. Leads times may be faster, and approval processes may be simplified.

"It appears that moves to implement ATP have stalled (3).  We can really afford to wait any longer?"

References:

1. Automatic Train Protection (ATP) http://www.railsafe.org.au/section.jsp?id=8684

2. The European Railway Traffic Management System (ERTMS)  http://www.ertms.net/ertms/ertms-in-brief.aspx

3. Rail Safety Systems Assessment of the South East Queensland Rail Network http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/railsafety/rail%20safety%20systems%20assessment%20of%20seq%20rail%20network%20update%202.pdf

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Online ozbob

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Couriermail --> Two Brisbane Citytrains loaded with passengers came within metres of colliding when train failed to stop at red signal

=======================================

Media release 9th April 2013 re-released 16th November 2013 re-released 13th June 2014



SEQ: Suburban rail network needs Automatic Train Protection too!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said the introduction of Automatic Train Protection (ATP) which incorporates improved signalling is well overdue on the suburban rail network in SEQ (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Automatic Train Protection (ATP) is a system that relays signal information, track speed information and other track information to trains, and can automatically slow or stop trains if they exceed the track speeds or approach signals at STOP at too high a speed. It will also stop trains that pass a signal at STOP unless a specific procedure is followed."

"There are concerns with rail safety generally and it is time that ATP was introduced on the suburban rail network."

ATP is needed because:

Safety - the current Automatic Warning System installed on Queensland Rail's suburban network will not prevent crashes or derailments caused by:

1) Excessive speed around corners or through switches.
2) Excessive speed through red signals compromising the safe stopping distance.
3) Excessive speed through yellow signals, again compromising the safe stopping distance.
4) Excessive speed on approach to dead end tracks, such as at termini.

ATP will prevent the majority of crashes caused by the above.

Capacity - ATP in conjunction with a high capacity signalling system such as European Railway Traffic Management System - ERTMS - level 2 allows for higher train frequencies and/or higher reliability.  This is important as we approach maximum capacity limits on the Merivale Bridge.

Cost savings - ERTMS level 2 has less track wayside equipment, reducing equipment maintenance costs.  Longer term significant cost savings.

Open market - as ERTMS is standards based, multiple manufacturers can bid for contracts. Multiple manufacturers can also be involved in a contract. Leads times may be faster, and approval processes may be simplified.

"It appears that moves to implement ATP have stalled (3).  We can really afford to wait any longer?"

References:

1. Automatic Train Protection (ATP) http://www.railsafe.org.au/section.jsp?id=8684

2. The European Railway Traffic Management System (ERTMS)  http://www.ertms.net/ertms/ertms-in-brief.aspx

3. Rail Safety Systems Assessment of the South East Queensland Rail Network http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/railsafety/rail%20safety%20systems%20assessment%20of%20seq%20rail%20network%20update%202.pdf

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Online ozbob

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Sent to all outlets:

26th June 2014

What ever happened to ATP on the suburban rail network?

Greetings,

The public has become less than optimistic with the roll out of improved public transport solutions, little wonder hey?

Ok, what has happened to the roll out of Automatic Train Protection on the suburban rail network in SEQ?

Here is the last update of the Rail Safety Systems Assessment of the South East Queensland Rail Network, around 3 years old.

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/railsafety/rail%20safety%20systems%20assessment%20of%20seq%20rail%20network%20update%202.pdf

on this page http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Rail-safety.aspx

ATP would have significant benefits over cost.  Apart from the very profound safety considerations, it would also allow improved train frequency hence capacity, particularly at peak when combined with high capacity signal block design. Driver Only Operation would also be possible.

Half baked infrastructure solutions such as BaT could be then approached from a more measured rational approach, as was properly planned Cross River Rail.  Planning for the BaT suggests that train operation will be under ATP control. Why is the rest of the suburban network not being upgraded?

Political knee-jerk solutions are not sound transport solutions.  Is south-east Queensland about to be condemned to prolonged transport failure?

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Couriermail --> Two Brisbane Citytrains loaded with passengers came within metres of colliding when train failed to stop at red signal

=======================================

Media release 9th April 2013 re-released 16th November 2013 re-released 13th June 2014



SEQ: Suburban rail network needs Automatic Train Protection too!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said the introduction of Automatic Train Protection (ATP) which incorporates improved signalling is well overdue on the suburban rail network in SEQ (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Automatic Train Protection (ATP) is a system that relays signal information, track speed information and other track information to trains, and can automatically slow or stop trains if they exceed the track speeds or approach signals at STOP at too high a speed. It will also stop trains that pass a signal at STOP unless a specific procedure is followed."

"There are concerns with rail safety generally and it is time that ATP was introduced on the suburban rail network."

ATP is needed because:

Safety - the current Automatic Warning System installed on Queensland Rail's suburban network will not prevent crashes or derailments caused by:

1) Excessive speed around corners or through switches.
2) Excessive speed through red signals compromising the safe stopping distance.
3) Excessive speed through yellow signals, again compromising the safe stopping distance.
4) Excessive speed on approach to dead end tracks, such as at termini.

ATP will prevent the majority of crashes caused by the above.

Capacity - ATP in conjunction with a high capacity signalling system such as European Railway Traffic Management System - ERTMS - level 2 allows for higher train frequencies and/or higher reliability.  This is important as we approach maximum capacity limits on the Merivale Bridge.

Cost savings - ERTMS level 2 has less track wayside equipment, reducing equipment maintenance costs.  Longer term significant cost savings.

Open market - as ERTMS is standards based, multiple manufacturers can bid for contracts. Multiple manufacturers can also be involved in a contract. Leads times may be faster, and approval processes may be simplified.

"It appears that moves to implement ATP have stalled (3).  We can really afford to wait any longer?"

References:

1. Automatic Train Protection (ATP) http://www.railsafe.org.au/section.jsp?id=8684

2. The European Railway Traffic Management System (ERTMS)  http://www.ertms.net/ertms/ertms-in-brief.aspx

3. Rail Safety Systems Assessment of the South East Queensland Rail Network http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/railsafety/rail%20safety%20systems%20assessment%20of%20seq%20rail%20network%20update%202.pdf

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Online ozbob

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http://www.railexpress.com.au/archive/2011/june/june-1st-2011-1/top-stories/metro-signalling-lag-sees-capacity-at-saturation

Metro signalling lag sees capacity at saturation

Quote
Metro signalling lag sees capacity at saturation
by Rail Express — last modified Jun 01, 2011 08:43 AM

Outdated signalling systems are constraining passenger rail’s ability to accommodate the surging number of rail commuters in Australia, writes Francis Dwornik*.

Three years ago I predicted that Australia’s passenger rail networks were fast approaching saturation point.

While the obvious solution to increasing demand from commuters is to increase the capacity and efficiency of services by ordering and running more rolling stock, eventually our industry’s reliance on ageing, outdated signalling systems would mean that a capacity limit would be reached. This has now happened.

According to the Australasian Railways Association’s (ARA) 2010 Rail Report, passenger journeys across the country increased by 6% in the past two years to 769.9m journeys.

Figures for 2009-2010 were down slightly on 2008-2009 and according to the report, network capacity constraints were a major reason along with the Global Financial Crisis.

The central cause of our capacity constraints is our urban signalling systems. Inherited from a colonial rail legacy – with different, non-interoperable signalling systems in place across the states – many of our signalling systems remain linked to mid to late 20th Century technology. Any updates have just overlaid the problems of this signalling legacy.

‘Band-aid’ approach
This has also created a mindset where governments and operators have a concept of replacing assets when they are “life-expired” – a band-aid approach – instead of investing in entirely new signalling technologies and networks.

Modern technological options include the European Train Control System (ETCS) with its different levels of sophistication, and Communication Based Train Control (CBTC) systems (including Automated Train Protection models).

Upgrading signalling would not only allow for additional capacity opportunities but would also provide the capability for future automation which holds the potential for further capacity increases, and improvements in safety and operational efficiencies.

In Sydney, there are about 1m daily trips daily on weekdays – with about 320,000 commuters travelling each weekday, but Sydney’s operator, RailCorp, is operating with little margin for error.

In April, RailCorp’s aging signalling system failed when a single switch breakdown led to huge delays across the entire CityRail system putting down 40% of the network. This caused delays to 100,000 commuters, 847 trains, and the cancellation of 240 services.

According to reports that followed this particular mass signalling failure, about 2800 signalling failures are crippling Sydney’s CityRail network each year, resulting in thousands of train delays or cancellations. RailCorp has since replaced three of the problematic signalling switches.

In Melbourne, the city’s passenger rail network recorded more than 200m passenger trips for the 2008–2009 financial year, yet the network continues to run on signalling technology that is 30-years-old.

As a result, Metro Trains Melbourne’s (MTM) April performance reports recorded the Melbourne network as having delivered 98.7% of services with 76.2% punctuality.

Europe
In contrast, much of European rail now operates under the European Train Control System (ETCS), with varying levels of sophistication depending on the country.

The most progressive systems are in France, Switzerland and Germany – all operating under different versions of ETCS Level 1 and Level 2.

In ETCS Level 1, a new system can be superimposed on the existing system with trackside (Eurobalise) beacons able to pick up trackside signals and transmit them on-board. The technology can pick up differences in fixed signals from country to country and convert them safely within both countries for a train crossing their borders.

Under ETCS Level 2, communications move on-board with little reliance on trackside components. ETCS Level 3 eliminates fixed trackside signalling equipment altogether and provides radio-based (moving block) spacing.

Some countries such as Switzerland have plans for long term investment in railways information and communications technology (ICT) systems which will lead to full automation (driverless trains).

Benefits of these ICT management systems are fully automated operations, more network capacity, flexibility in operations, more efficient and faster restoration of normal operations (in case of emergency), and lower operational costs.

In Asia, signalling standards are also progressing. There is a movement away from the replacement of life-expired signalling systems following bold decisions by government to support the latest technology and communications based train control (CBTC) systems. These systems rely on data communication links only between train and control centres.

Australia has much to learn from these countries.

The good news
The good news back home is RailCorp is going ahead and implementing ETCS Level 1 across its CityRail network and has contracted Alstom to supply $65m worth of Automatic Train Protection (ATP) equipment.

This announcement represents the first of three stages. As Rail Express reported (27 January 2011), the first of 50 ATP equipped trains is expected to be on the tracks and in passenger service between Wyong and Berowra in 2013, followed by ATP installation on Waratah and Millenium train fleets and the rest of the electrified network. A full rollout is expected by 2021.

This is commendable and no doubt, MTM in Melbourne is investigating its own ATP options.

The Australian Rail and Track Corporation (ARTC) is also developing a national freight network system using its own Advanced Train Management System (ATMS) (see this week’s report), whose next-generation mobile communications focus is innovative and able to adapt to the unique qualities of the Australian interstate freight rail network.

Difficult implementation
The problem facing governments around Australia however, is that implementing these new technologies is not easy. For example, these metropolitan rail upgrades need to occur progressively so that the overall network can keep operating. But the works do require certain sections of the network to be quarantined or closed down so it is important to engage the support of the public.

It is also unfortunate that signalling upgrades are usually procured within larger infrastructure projects. This means construction companies, even if in an alliance, might be responsible for the design of the signalling components.

It also means that a signalling component’s design does not necessarily consider a network’s future needs – only what it is being contracted at that point. There is therefore, a commercial gap between how signalling is now being procured and what is ideally needed.

Until we can overcome these kinds of constraints in the way signalling is being ordered in Australia, we will not get the well-developed technologies that are already implemented and in use around the world.

Australia is on the cusp of a rail revolution but train communications must be carefully coordinated.

We must ensure that investment in signalling systems is not only timely but complementary, or the billions of dollars being spent on new rail infrastructure could end up in another inefficient tangle that could see Australia miss out on the wonderful opportunity that is being presented.

*Francis Dwornik is general manager of Pacific Services Group rail division.
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Online ozbob

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SA invests in ATP
http://www.railexpress.com.au/archive/2011/june/june-15th-2011/other-top-stories/sa-invests-in-atp

=================================

Perth rail system – an example of integrated transport planning
http://www.railexpress.com.au/archive/2012/may/may-23rd-2012/top-stories/perth-rail-system-2013-an-example-of-integrated-transport-planning

Perth’s leading Automatic Train Protection (ATP) signalling system was installed with electrification around 20 years ago so it provides a robust framework for expansion and the most efficient train controls systems.

=================================

Automatic Train Protection
http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects-automatic-train-protection

The Automatic Train Protection (ATP) Program will see the Sydney Trains metropolitan and NSW TrainLink intercity rail network fitted with new equipment to improve rail safety by monitoring a train’s speed and position on the network and automatically intervening or braking to ensure safe operations.

The program will play a key role in delivering faster and more reliable services as part of the NSW Government’s Sydney’s Rail Future.
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Brisbane - SEQ rail network ATP > " crickets "


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5th July 2014

Automatic Train Protection - stalled or forgotten?

Greetings,

Automatic Train Protection (ATP) is needed in on the SEQ rail network.  It appears that moves to equip the network with an ATP capability have stalled.

Why then has money been allocated in the last two state budgets?

The money first appears in the 2013/14 Queensland budget:
http://www.budget.qld.gov.au/budget-papers/2013-14/bp3-2013-14.pdf
Page 106: "$11 million towards Automatic Train Protection to prevent unsafe situations on interurban carriages"
Page 121: "Automatic Train Protection II $10,968,000"

The money re-appears in this year's Queensland budget:
http://www.budget.qld.gov.au/budget-papers/2014-15/bp3-2014-15.pdf
Page 111: "Automatic Train Protection II: $11,712,000" - note the $744,000 blow-out caused by the apparent delay.

Is there are a reason why ATP is not being proceeded with particularly as there is a budget allocation?  Or has it just been forgotten about? Other states have their collective act together ..

E.g.

SA invests in ATP
http://www.railexpress.com.au/archive/2011/june/june-15th-2011/other-top-stories/sa-invests-in-atp

=================================

Perth rail system – an example of integrated transport planning
http://www.railexpress.com.au/archive/2012/may/may-23rd-2012/top-stories/perth-rail-system-2013-an-example-of-integrated-transport-planning

Perth’s leading Automatic Train Protection (ATP) signalling system was installed with electrification around 20 years ago so it provides a robust framework for expansion and the most efficient train controls systems.

=================================

Automatic Train Protection
http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects-automatic-train-protection

The Automatic Train Protection (ATP) Program will see the Sydney Trains metropolitan and NSW TrainLink intercity rail network fitted with new equipment to improve rail safety by monitoring a train’s speed and position on the network and automatically intervening or braking to ensure safe operations.

The program will play a key role in delivering faster and more reliable services as part of the NSW Government’s Sydney’s Rail Future.

=================================

Here is the last update of the Rail Safety Systems Assessment of the South East Queensland Rail Network, around 3 years old. 26 Sep 2011

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/railsafety/rail%20safety%20systems%20assessment%20of%20seq%20rail%20network%20update%202.pdf

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

================================

Media release 9th April 2013 re-released 16th November 2013 re-released 13th June 2014 re-released 4th July 2014



SEQ: Suburban rail network needs Automatic Train Protection too!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said the introduction of Automatic Train Protection (ATP) which incorporates improved signalling is well overdue on the suburban rail network in SEQ (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Automatic Train Protection (ATP) is a system that relays signal information, track speed information and other track information to trains, and can automatically slow or stop trains if they exceed the track speeds or approach signals at STOP at too high a speed. It will also stop trains that pass a signal at STOP unless a specific procedure is followed."

"There are concerns with rail safety generally and it is time that ATP was introduced on the suburban rail network."

ATP is needed because:

Safety - the current Automatic Warning System installed on Queensland Rail's suburban network will not prevent crashes or derailments caused by:

1) Excessive speed around corners or through switches.
2) Excessive speed through red signals compromising the safe stopping distance.
3) Excessive speed through yellow signals, again compromising the safe stopping distance.
4) Excessive speed on approach to dead end tracks, such as at termini.

ATP will prevent the majority of crashes caused by the above.

Capacity - ATP in conjunction with a high capacity signalling system such as European Railway Traffic Management System - ERTMS - level 2 allows for higher train frequencies and/or higher reliability.  This is important as we approach maximum capacity limits on the Merivale Bridge.

Cost savings - ERTMS level 2 has less track wayside equipment, reducing equipment maintenance costs.  Longer term significant cost savings.

Open market - as ERTMS is standards based, multiple manufacturers can bid for contracts. Multiple manufacturers can also be involved in a contract. Leads times may be faster, and approval processes may be simplified.

"It appears that moves to implement ATP have stalled (3).  We can really afford to wait any longer?"

References:

1. Automatic Train Protection (ATP) http://www.railsafe.org.au/section.jsp?id=8684

2. The European Railway Traffic Management System (ERTMS)  http://www.ertms.net/ertms/ertms-in-brief.aspx

3. Rail Safety Systems Assessment of the South East Queensland Rail Network http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/railsafety/rail%20safety%20systems%20assessment%20of%20seq%20rail%20network%20update%202.pdf

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org
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Online ozbob

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Strange the ATP is left hanging.  A possible explanation would be the LNP have decided to 'privatise/franchise' Queensland Rail and frankly can't be bothered? 
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Offline Stillwater

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Maybe the report was prepared as part of the QR/ARTC investigation into the feasibility of the ARTC taking a long-term lease of selected (freight) lines in SEQ.  We will know the result of the ARTC investigation by the end of the year, about the same time as the state government has said it will release its state-wide Transport Infrastructure Plan.  It would appear the government is prepping for the big video and glossy brochure launch, backed by TV advertising.  These things are so much cheaper than actually investing in the infrastructure itself.

Online ozbob

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... It would appear the government is prepping for the big video and glossy brochure launch, backed by TV advertising.  These things are so much cheaper than actually investing in the infrastructure itself.

Yes, I like to collect these glossy brochures,  booklets and plans. 

Good bed time reading as one drifts off and dreams about functional public transport networks and functional governments ...

Let's hope the LNP don't disappoint.  Their predecessors did it well. DVDs are a nice touch, maybe this year's effort could include a suitable mono-graphed flash drive too?  A Batman logo would be nice. We can only hope hey?   :P  :fo:
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Offline HappyTrainGuy

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The EMU computer and electronics system love ATP :P
"What housing crisis?? There are plenty of free mobile apartments rolling around on the rails every day"

Online ozbob

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The EMU computer and electronics system love ATP :P

Yo!  Budget allocations were for IMUs.  It could have been started particularly as NGR underway ...
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Online ozbob

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Interesting slide, see slide 10 --> http://www.slideshare.net/informaoz/jamielee-crawford-queensland-rail

Mar 2014!
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Online ozbob

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Sent to all outlets:

14th July 2014

Automatic Train Protection - what's happening?

Good Morning,

Found an interesting presentation on the web at  http://www.slideshare.net/informaoz/jamielee-crawford-queensland-rail

Slide 10 is of great interest.  In March 2014 Queensland Rail was suggesting that moving to ATP viz. European Train Control System Level 2 (ETCS L2) was in line for the ' City Network '.

Again we ask has this project stalled?  ATP for the suburban network is of great importance and represents excellent bang for buck as it would facilitate improved safety and increased capacity. Would also allow significant cost savings as it simplifies organisational processes and would also facilitate a move to Driver Only Operation (DOO) which again would represent significant cost savings.

Has there been any progress with the ATP project?  Or has it been shelved?

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

5th July 2014

Automatic Train Protection - stalled or forgotten?

Greetings,

Automatic Train Protection (ATP) is needed in on the SEQ rail network.  It appears that moves to equip the network with an ATP capability have stalled.

Why then has money been allocated in the last two state budgets?

The money first appears in the 2013/14 Queensland budget:
http://www.budget.qld.gov.au/budget-papers/2013-14/bp3-2013-14.pdf
Page 106: "$11 million towards Automatic Train Protection to prevent unsafe situations on interurban carriages"
Page 121: "Automatic Train Protection II $10,968,000"

The money re-appears in this year's Queensland budget:
http://www.budget.qld.gov.au/budget-papers/2014-15/bp3-2014-15.pdf
Page 111: "Automatic Train Protection II: $11,712,000" - note the $744,000 blow-out caused by the apparent delay.

Is there are a reason why ATP is not being proceeded with particularly as there is a budget allocation?  Or has it just been forgotten about? Other states have their collective act together ..

E.g.

SA invests in ATP
http://www.railexpress.com.au/archive/2011/june/june-15th-2011/other-top-stories/sa-invests-in-atp

=================================

Perth rail system – an example of integrated transport planning
http://www.railexpress.com.au/archive/2012/may/may-23rd-2012/top-stories/perth-rail-system-2013-an-example-of-integrated-transport-planning

Perth’s leading Automatic Train Protection (ATP) signalling system was installed with electrification around 20 years ago so it provides a robust framework for expansion and the most efficient train controls systems.

=================================

Automatic Train Protection
http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects-automatic-train-protection

The Automatic Train Protection (ATP) Program will see the Sydney Trains metropolitan and NSW TrainLink intercity rail network fitted with new equipment to improve rail safety by monitoring a train’s speed and position on the network and automatically intervening or braking to ensure safe operations.

The program will play a key role in delivering faster and more reliable services as part of the NSW Government’s Sydney’s Rail Future.

=================================

Here is the last update of the Rail Safety Systems Assessment of the South East Queensland Rail Network, around 3 years old. 26 Sep 2011

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/railsafety/rail%20safety%20systems%20assessment%20of%20seq%20rail%20network%20update%202.pdf

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

================================

Media release 9th April 2013 re-released 16th November 2013 re-released 13th June 2014 re-released 4th July 2014



SEQ: Suburban rail network needs Automatic Train Protection too!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said the introduction of Automatic Train Protection (ATP) which incorporates improved signalling is well overdue on the suburban rail network in SEQ (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Automatic Train Protection (ATP) is a system that relays signal information, track speed information and other track information to trains, and can automatically slow or stop trains if they exceed the track speeds or approach signals at STOP at too high a speed. It will also stop trains that pass a signal at STOP unless a specific procedure is followed."

"There are concerns with rail safety generally and it is time that ATP was introduced on the suburban rail network."

ATP is needed because:

Safety - the current Automatic Warning System installed on Queensland Rail's suburban network will not prevent crashes or derailments caused by:

1) Excessive speed around corners or through switches.
2) Excessive speed through red signals compromising the safe stopping distance.
3) Excessive speed through yellow signals, again compromising the safe stopping distance.
4) Excessive speed on approach to dead end tracks, such as at termini.

ATP will prevent the majority of crashes caused by the above.

Capacity - ATP in conjunction with a high capacity signalling system such as European Railway Traffic Management System - ERTMS - level 2 allows for higher train frequencies and/or higher reliability.  This is important as we approach maximum capacity limits on the Merivale Bridge.

Cost savings - ERTMS level 2 has less track wayside equipment, reducing equipment maintenance costs.  Longer term significant cost savings.

Open market - as ERTMS is standards based, multiple manufacturers can bid for contracts. Multiple manufacturers can also be involved in a contract. Leads times may be faster, and approval processes may be simplified.

"It appears that moves to implement ATP have stalled (3).  We can really afford to wait any longer?"

References:

1. Automatic Train Protection (ATP) http://www.railsafe.org.au/section.jsp?id=8684

2. The European Railway Traffic Management System (ERTMS)  http://www.ertms.net/ertms/ertms-in-brief.aspx

3. Rail Safety Systems Assessment of the South East Queensland Rail Network http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/railsafety/rail%20safety%20systems%20assessment%20of%20seq%20rail%20network%20update%202.pdf

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org
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Online ozbob

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FYI

http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/european-rail-traffic-management-system-ertms/

Quote
... ERTMS infrastructure and technology

ERTMS has two main components, which include GSM-R, a radio system for enabling communication between the driver and the traffic management centre, and ETCS, an automatic control system that helps to control speed limits of a train by communicating with the driver.

There are three different levels of ERTMS/ETCS application, L-1, L-2 and L-3, based on the need for existing railway infrastructure.

L-1 is as an add-on designed for conventional lines already equipped with lineside signals and train detectors. Balises are installed on the trackside adjacent to the lineside signals to transmit information to the control centre and the train. Information from the balises is used to calculate the maximum speed of the train by the ETCS onboard equipment, which helps to determine when and where to break the train.

In contrast, L-2 does not require line-side signals. The movement authority communication occurs directly from a Radio Block Centre (RBC) to the onboard unit using a GSM-R. Continuous communication system of the L2 allows the train to reach its optimum or maximum speed while maintaining a safe braking distance.

L-3, which is still in conceptual stage, is based on moving block technology. It involves use of special equipment within the train to continuously supply data on the train's position to the control centre, rather than by track based detection equipment. The train thus continuously monitors its own position.

ERTMS is designed in a flexible way that allows for smooth migration from one level to other level of its application. It is also fully interoperable implying that any train fitted with the system can run on any other line equipped with a similar one. The trackside infrastructure from an ERTMS supplier can also be universally used by any train manufactured by other ERTMS suppliers ...
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Offline SurfRail

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I wonder what will happen with the lights on sticks, particularly when there will still be plenty of trains which do not necessarily have ATP equipment fitted (eg various interstate diesels on the SG, heritage trains etc).

In other parts of the world, there are places which have a signal aspect which basically amounts to "ignore if you are fitted with ATP".

http://www.checkerboardhill.com/2011/04/british-railway-signalling-and-mtr-east-rail/

Online ozbob

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Sent to all outlets:

15th May 2015

Automatic Train Protection - what's happening?

Greetings,

The train crash in USA shows what can happen with systems without Automatic Train Protection (ATP)

Amtrak Train Derailed Going 106 M.P.H. on Sharp Curve; at Least 7 Killed
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/14/us/amtrak-train-derails-crash-philadelphia.html?_r=0On

Has there been any progress with ATP for the SEQ suburban rail network?  A reasonable question which publicly remains unanswered.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

14th July 2014

Automatic Train Protection - what's happening?

Good Morning,

Found an interesting presentation on the web at  http://www.slideshare.net/informaoz/jamielee-crawford-queensland-rail

Slide 10 is of great interest.  In March 2014 Queensland Rail was suggesting that moving to ATP viz. European Train Control System Level 2 (ETCS L2) was in line for the ' City Network '.

Again we ask has this project stalled?  ATP for the suburban network is of great importance and represents excellent bang for buck as it would facilitate improved safety and increased capacity. Would also allow significant cost savings as it simplifies organisational processes and would also facilitate a move to Driver Only Operation (DOO) which again would represent significant cost savings.

Has there been any progress with the ATP project?  Or has it been shelved?

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

5th July 2014

Automatic Train Protection - stalled or forgotten?

Greetings,

Automatic Train Protection (ATP) is needed in on the SEQ rail network.  It appears that moves to equip the network with an ATP capability have stalled.

Why then has money been allocated in the last two state budgets?

The money first appears in the 2013/14 Queensland budget:
http://www.budget.qld.gov.au/budget-papers/2013-14/bp3-2013-14.pdf
Page 106: "$11 million towards Automatic Train Protection to prevent unsafe situations on interurban carriages"
Page 121: "Automatic Train Protection II $10,968,000"

The money re-appears in this year's Queensland budget:
http://www.budget.qld.gov.au/budget-papers/2014-15/bp3-2014-15.pdf
Page 111: "Automatic Train Protection II: $11,712,000" - note the $744,000 blow-out caused by the apparent delay.

Is there are a reason why ATP is not being proceeded with particularly as there is a budget allocation?  Or has it just been forgotten about? Other states have their collective act together ..

E.g.

SA invests in ATP
http://www.railexpress.com.au/archive/2011/june/june-15th-2011/other-top-stories/sa-invests-in-atp

=================================

Perth rail system – an example of integrated transport planning
http://www.railexpress.com.au/archive/2012/may/may-23rd-2012/top-stories/perth-rail-system-2013-an-example-of-integrated-transport-planning

Perth’s leading Automatic Train Protection (ATP) signalling system was installed with electrification around 20 years ago so it provides a robust framework for expansion and the most efficient train controls systems.

=================================

Automatic Train Protection
http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects-automatic-train-protection

The Automatic Train Protection (ATP) Program will see the Sydney Trains metropolitan and NSW TrainLink intercity rail network fitted with new equipment to improve rail safety by monitoring a train’s speed and position on the network and automatically intervening or braking to ensure safe operations.

The program will play a key role in delivering faster and more reliable services as part of the NSW Government’s Sydney’s Rail Future.

=================================

Here is the last update of the Rail Safety Systems Assessment of the South East Queensland Rail Network, around 3 years old. 26 Sep 2011

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/railsafety/rail%20safety%20systems%20assessment%20of%20seq%20rail%20network%20update%202.pdf

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

================================

Media release 9th April 2013 re-released 16th November 2013 re-released 13th June 2014 re-released 4th July 2014



SEQ: Suburban rail network needs Automatic Train Protection too!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said the introduction of Automatic Train Protection (ATP) which incorporates improved signalling is well overdue on the suburban rail network in SEQ (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Automatic Train Protection (ATP) is a system that relays signal information, track speed information and other track information to trains, and can automatically slow or stop trains if they exceed the track speeds or approach signals at STOP at too high a speed. It will also stop trains that pass a signal at STOP unless a specific procedure is followed."

"There are concerns with rail safety generally and it is time that ATP was introduced on the suburban rail network."

ATP is needed because:

Safety - the current Automatic Warning System installed on Queensland Rail's suburban network will not prevent crashes or derailments caused by:

1) Excessive speed around corners or through switches.
2) Excessive speed through red signals compromising the safe stopping distance.
3) Excessive speed through yellow signals, again compromising the safe stopping distance.
4) Excessive speed on approach to dead end tracks, such as at termini.

ATP will prevent the majority of crashes caused by the above.

Capacity - ATP in conjunction with a high capacity signalling system such as European Railway Traffic Management System - ERTMS - level 2 allows for higher train frequencies and/or higher reliability.  This is important as we approach maximum capacity limits on the Merivale Bridge.

Cost savings - ERTMS level 2 has less track wayside equipment, reducing equipment maintenance costs.  Longer term significant cost savings.

Open market - as ERTMS is standards based, multiple manufacturers can bid for contracts. Multiple manufacturers can also be involved in a contract. Leads times may be faster, and approval processes may be simplified.

"It appears that moves to implement ATP have stalled (3).  We can really afford to wait any longer?"

References:

1. Automatic Train Protection (ATP) http://www.railsafe.org.au/section.jsp?id=8684

2. The European Railway Traffic Management System (ERTMS)  http://www.ertms.net/ertms/ertms-in-brief.aspx

3. Rail Safety Systems Assessment of the South East Queensland Rail Network http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/railsafety/rail%20safety%20systems%20assessment%20of%20seq%20rail%20network%20update%202.pdf

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org
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Online ozbob

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Brisbanetimes --> Auto-braking on SEQ trains being considered: Queensland Rail

Quote
Queensland's influential rail lobby group has renewed calls for Queensland Government to introduce an automatic braking system in the Southeast Queensland train network.

Automated Train Protection (ATP) is a computerised anti-braking system to over-ride a train driver's decisions when the driver does not slow a train or stop at a station.

Now, 11 years after the City of Townsville tilt train crash, an automatic braking system is being considered for Queensland's suburban trains, Queensland Rail has confirmed.

 The 2013 passenger train crash at Cleveland Station might have been prevented if an auto-braking system had been in place. Photo: Supplied

History of preventable crashes

-          City of Townsville Tilt Train in November 2004 – 100 injured

-          Cleveland Station train crash in January 2013 – seven injured
 -          Philadelphia train crash in May 2015 – eight people killed

Queensland Rail introduced ATP fulltime into regional Queensland in 2007 – on the rail line north of Caboolture towards Townsville and west to Mt Isa – after 100 people were injured when City of Townsville Tilt Train crashed north of Bundaberg in November 2004.

At the time the City of Townsville entered a corner at excessive speed – 112 kilometres per hour – instead of the track speed of 60 kilometres per hour.

In January 2013 a passenger train did not stop when it stopped and ploughed into the toilet block of the Cleveland station.

Seven people were injured when the train crashed through the end-of-line buffer at more than 30 kilometres per hour and crashed into the Cleveland rail station building.

Around $11 million was allocated in the 2013-14 Queensland Budget to test "unsafe" automated train protection systems on the Sunshine Coast's Inter-Capital Express trains.

In the 2014-15 Queensland Budget $11.7 million was allocated to test the faults.

Rail Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said the recent fatal train derailment in Philadelphia this month where eight people were killed should prompt serious questions in Queensland.

US officials admitted an anti-braking system would have prevented the catastrophic derailment of the passenger train on the mainline between Washington and New York in May.

Maximum train speeds Southeast Queensland

Brisbane metropolitan area - 140kph.

Gold Coast line - 140kph

 Ipswich line - 100 kph

Mr Dow said the Cleveland train crash in January 2013 – where seven people were injured  in January 2013 - should worry Queensland Rail.

"The point that we have made constantly is that Automated Train Protection is not on our suburban rail network," Mr Dow said.

"If the train had gone on to the track that is closest to the seashore – it would have gone through the station office.

"It would probably have killed people at that point."

"So we think there is a strong case for automatic train protection on our suburban train network."

Mr Dow has concerns where trains come to a train terminal stop; ie Cleveland, Brisbane Airport and the new Springfield station.

"Now Cleveland was put down to a braking issue, but I have always felt that if there was automatic train protection there, the train would have slowed prior to that situation," he said.

"But you think about Brisbane Airport. You may not be aware but now the train slows right down a long way out," he said.

"Now that is something that they introduced since the Cleveland incident."

"Now the airport is a terminal station, as is the new Springfield station.

"Now - in theory - without automatic train protection, a train could approach those terminals at high speed and go straight through.

"If that happened at the Brisbane Airport, that would be calamitous to say the least."

Where is the automatic braking system in place now?

From Caboolture to Purono; 28 kilometres south of Townsville;

 from Ipswich to Toowoomba; and

from the coast out to Mount Isa.

What does the rail union say?

The Rail, Bus and Tram Union (RBTU) agrees but says the cost of a "Rolls Royce" system could be prohibitive and the cost of an accident has to be weighed up against the risk of an incident.

Shayne Cummerfeld from the RBTU's locomotive division said however the "Rolls Royce" system would also allow more trains to run closer together, improving the capacity.

"The problem is whether the government - as the track owner – wants to put up the money," Mr Cummerfeld said.

He said the project had not progressed since a study by the previous Labor Government.

"I don't believe there was any money put to any further studies or increasing the likelihood of automatic train protection under the previous LNP Government," Mr Cummerfeld said.

"My understanding is that it is still sitting on Department of Transport's books, but it has not progressed any further."

"Rail Back on Track has some good questions; and rightly so."

What is the government's response?

Queensland Rail said a business case for one of five automated braking systems - the European Train Control System Level 2 - an automated braking system is now being considered by the Department of Transport.

The 75 New Generation Rollingstock trains ready by 2016 will be ETCS L2 ready, the spokeswoman said.

"One of the first of four trains to be completely fitted with the technology, and it will run as a test train," she said.

"Safety is our number one priority and we have an extensive risk management framework in place."

The project's timing is a matter for the Department of Transport, the spokeswoman said.


... Shayne Cummerfeld from the RBTU's locomotive division said however the "Rolls Royce" system would also allow more trains to run closer together, improving the capacity ...

... an automatic braking system is being considered for Queensland's suburban trains, Queensland Rail has confirmed ...

... The 75 New Generation Rollingstock trains ready by 2016 will be ETCS L2 ready, the spokeswoman said ...


Apart from safety considerations the ability to improve frequency particularly at peak is important as we are a long way away from infrastructure solutions eg. CRR  if ever ...

 :-t
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 03:14:45 AM by ozbob »
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Offline petey3801

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VERY poorly written article. Cross post from the FB page:
ATP would not have helped Cleveland AT ALL. The driver had the brakes applied before a normal application would have been made, with an emergency application made well before the points. The wheels locked up, simple. ATP can not, and does not stop wheel slide. What's the point of having the ATP make a service brake application when the brakes are already in emergency?
Also, the reduction of the entry speed in to Cleveland is simply a knee jerk reaction that would have made Zero difference in the accident. The speed board could have said 5km/h for all the difference it was going to make! Entry speed into the platform was already 20km/h due to terminal station and AWS policy.
The driver applied the brakes in a slightly earlier than normal position for the approach to the station, yet still traveled through the points at (by memory) 54km/h, after the brakes had been put in to emergency quite some time beforehand.
As for approaching the Airport station, nothing has changed in that regard except that on the 160/260 class, the driver is required to drive at half road speed on single yellow signals. Trains other than 160/260 class will continue as normal in to the Airport, with the regular 20km/h entry in to the station, which was policy well before the Cleveland incident for entering dead end terminal stations.
ATP would be a good thing for the City network, but it would have done nothing for the Cleveland incident at all.
Also:
"Automated Train Protection (ATP) is a computerised anti-braking system to over-ride a train driver's decisions when the driver does not slow a train or stop at a station."
Uh, no. ATP is a computerised protection system which applies the brakes (if the driver hasn't already done so) to prevent a train exceeding its limit of authority (passing a red signal). Nothing to do with stopping at stations (unless there is a red at the end of the platform) and most certainly not an "Anti-braking" system.
"Brisbane metropolitan area - 140kph."
Technically correct, but the only place in the suburban area/metro area allowed to go 140km/h at the present stage is Richlands to Springfield, the rest is 100km/h.
"Now Cleveland was put down to a braking issue, but I have always felt that if there was automatic train protection there, the train would have slowed prior to that situation"
No. As described above, it would have done nothing for the Cleveland incident.
""But you think about Brisbane Airport. You may not be aware but now the train slows right down a long way out," he said.

"Now that is something that they introduced since the Cleveland incident.""
Yes, but once again, only for 160/260 class trains. All other trains can approach the Airport station (and any other terminal station) following the regular policies.

There is a lot of stuff in that article which the reporter really needed to do some more research on to actually understand what they were writing about. As it is, it is simply a 'slow news day' article that was rushed out and as such, has multiple errors and inaccuracies in it.
The thing that would have prevented the Cleveland accident is a system similar to what the Dutch trains have (well, most of the Dutch pax trains) and others in Europe: Magnetic emergency brakes. Basically a magnetic bar between the bogies of each carriage that, when the emergency brakes are applied, magnetize and drop on to the track. These magnetic brakes can stop a train traveling at 140km/h in around 300m! Compared to our regular brakes that take more than double that to stop.

Also, ATP won't do much to increase the amount of trains able to go through the City in peak, as has been stated here a few times before. We already have trains every 3 minutes through the city. ATP might be able to get that down to 2, MAYBE. But ONLY if it includes FULL in cab signalling. Current signalling simply won't handle (much) more than what we have now, ATP or not. Trains already run on restricted signals through the City in peak, including reds. ATP might actually reduce capacity slightly in these circumstances if it is simply added to the network with current signalling, as it would err on the side of safety and slow trains down earlier, thereby actually reducing capacity.
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Offline SurfRail

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^ Exactamundo.

We can in theory go to 30 tph per track with the full "Rolls Royce" solution the RTBU guy is describing, for a total of 120tph to and from town.

With CRR we can more comfortably fit 24tph per track, total of 144tph in and out, with only 96 of those passing through Central.

There is probably not a chance in hell Central could cope with over 100tph, not without a LOT of work.  The passenger flow paths along the platforms are poor (particularly for people who want to cross over the main flows to get to the pedestrian subway - like me), P1-4 have low-level platforms which increases dwell times, the subway is too narrow, P3/4 are missing an escalator etc.

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It is difficult for journos to get across the complexities.  Yes, but it is excellent that at last there is some public mention of what might actually be going on. The ATP project has been stalled (at least publicly) since 2012 ...

Time Queensland Rail got their collective heads out of the sand. The splitting of the former Queensland Rail by Bligh was a disaster we know. At that point the ATP project went into suspended animation.  What ATP expertise is now firmly in the Aurizon camp in the majority.  The constant ongoing issues with the existing system on the ICE for example just further demonstrates that it is getting all too hard for Queensland Rail.  With little support from TMR what is actually going to happen?

At least there are some glimmers of hope.  Good job Brisbanetimes on flushing out some information.  Treating the public with ongoing contempt and secret culture and a lack of eduction by Queensland Rail and TMR is part of the problem.  The lack of real data transparency is just another sign. The customer focussed rhetoric is getting to be more than a little tedious.

Cleveland was not an isolated incident.  Many reports of the problem prior, had ATP been in widespread use there may well have been early decisive recognition and rectification was the point but that got a little lost.

If this article gives some political momentum to the ATP project then that is a good thing.

For interest: Transport for NSW

Automatic Train Protection > http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects-automatic-train-protection

Quote
Project profile

The Automatic Train Protection (ATP) Program will see the Sydney Trains metropolitan and NSW TrainLink intercity rail network fitted with new equipment to improve rail safety by monitoring a train’s speed and position on the network and automatically intervening or braking to ensure safe operations.

The program will play a key role in delivering faster and more reliable services as part of the NSW Government’s Sydney’s Rail Future.
Benefits

The program will deliver significant safety benefits to customers and rail staff.
Project status

The ATP program will be rolled out in three stages:

    Installation on the Oscars, Tangaras and 600 kilometres of track.
    Installation on the Waratah and Millennium trains.
    Installation of equipment to be rolled out across the rest of the electrified network.

Intercity ATP test trains have been commissioned and the trackside installation has been completed between Gosford and Wyong.

Trackside equipment has been fitted between Berowra and Gosford, and commissioning is underway.

Subject to the successful completion of these actions, it is expected that the first Oscar train, fitted with ATP equipment will operate between Berowra and Wyong in 2015.

In the coming months, Transport for NSW will issue a tender for design, construction and testing of ATP for a number of signals across the network.

The program is expected to be completed by 2021.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 03:48:34 AM by ozbob »
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To be frank I think it is very unlikely that a second river rail crossing will be done within the next 20 years. We have a political basket case here in Qld and Federally.

A sensible path from here is ATP and Central upgrade IMHO.  ATP will allow more services, faster, more reliably and safer. Fact. Is everyone else wrong?

At least that offers some hope for the interim.
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Offline Stillwater

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Some questions have to be asked of QR about the adequacy of Central Station to deal with the volumes of people at peak periods five, 10 years hence.  (That is not all that far away in a planning sense.)  If we don't have CRR soon, then the city stations will be worked harder.  Platforms are crowded in the peak, the concourse at Central is also pretty busy.  The question has to be asked, how would authorities cope if there had to be a mass evacuation?  We should be grateful for the tunnels into Anzac Sq, I suppose.

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Some questions have to be asked of QR about the adequacy of Central Station to deal with the volumes of people at peak periods five, 10 years hence.  (That is not all that far away in a planning sense.)  If we don't have CRR soon, then the city stations will be worked harder.  Platforms are crowded in the peak, the concourse at Central is also pretty busy.  The question has to be asked, how would authorities cope if there had to be a mass evacuation?  We should be grateful for the tunnels into Anzac Sq, I suppose.

See --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11435.0
Central Station - suggestions for improving train and passenger flow ..
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Offline petey3801

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Quote
What ATP expertise is now firmly in the Aurizon camp in the majority.  The constant ongoing issues with the existing system on the ICE for example just further demonstrates that it is getting all too hard for Queensland Rail.

Aurizon and PN also have plenty of problems with the ATP on the north coast. It is most certainly not an issue isolated to the ICE.

Quote
ATP will allow more services, faster, more reliably and safer. Fact. Is everyone else wrong?

Once again, it depends on the type of ATP. Simply installing ATP on our current signalling system will not actually increase capacity anywhere near what keeps getting thrown around on here. In fact, in peak, as I said, it will likely slow trains down due to trains already running on restricted and red signals through the City. ATP systems are tuned to make absolute sure the train will stop before the signal, therefore it will err on the side of caution with regards to speeds. Whether that is slower than most drivers currently drive is something I don't know, but it certainly won't be faster than what it is now. Also, on the absolute off-chance it does allow trains to come to a red quicker, drivers will simply continue to travel at the same speed as now. What's the point in rushing up to a mid-section red signal?
To properly increase capacity above what we have now, it needs to be a full blown ERTMS style in-cab, moving block signalling system. Even then, it won't increase all that much compared to what we have now, but it will do better than an ATP system on our current signalling system.
ATP is most certainly a nice to have, but without in-cab, moving block signalling, won't increase capacity in anywhere near the amount that keeps being said around here. On current signalling, it is a safety system, not a capacity enhancing system. Push the safety angle and things might get done. Continue pushing the capacity angle and people who know what they're talking about will completely ignore you. Want to push the capacity angle? Then push for an ERTMS style in-cab, moving block signalling system (hell, call it 'Advanced ATP' for short if you must..).

Quote
Cleveland was not an isolated incident.  Many reports of the problem prior, had ATP been in widespread use there may well have been early decisive recognition and rectification was the point but that got a little lost.
I (personally) know all too well it wasn't an isolated incident. If it wasn't acted on sooner as it is, what makes you think an ATP system would have made it happen sooner? It was a known issue anyway, but it took Cleveland to happen for something to be seriously done about it. ATP wouldn't have really changed that, because it doesn't often get used in practice. It only steps in if it thinks the driver is going too fast/not going to stop in time for a red. It doesn't give a crap about stations or anything like that, which is where pretty much all the excessive slides on 160/260s happened before Cleveland, and even then, it was still fairly rare for a more than 6-car overshoot to happen.
All opinions stated are my own and do not reflect those held by my employer.

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Thanks for your comments. Clearly, if they do move to an ATP system it will need to be one that gives capacity as well as the safety improvements to be really cost effective.

I am of the view that had ATP been operating on the SEQ network overall there would have been a different culture and an early response to the braking issues. That is just a viewpoint.  I have stated publicly that the Cleveland incident was a braking issue. They were very lucky indeed at Cleveland as we all know, the train could have easily been routed into the other platform.

Safety is obviously the major benefit of ATP, but it is worth noting the potential capacity improvements.  We are long away from a second river rail crossing.

To be honest Petey, I doubt if anything will happen though. Which will leave the Queensland Rail suburban network as the only metropolitan network in Australia without ATP.  Worth considering.

2012, now 2015 ... nothing much happening really

I think there is also a notion that ATP is a precursor to DOO which results in some organisational push back.  Just a view point ..

Quote
Sunday, February 5, 2012
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/is-se-queenslands-rail-system-accident.html
Is SE Queensland's rail system an accident waiting to happen?

Unlike many other commuter rail systems around the world, Brisbane's suburban rail network has no Automatic Train Protection (ATP) system. ATP comes in many forms. Sydney and Melbourne have an outdated, intermittent, and rudimentary form of ATP called train stops. More modern ATP systems continuously monitor a train's location and feedback to a train its maximum permitted speed, braking curve, and limit of movement authority (i.e. the point where it has to stop before it reaches a hazard). This forces a train to brake or stop completely if it is travelling too fast around sharp curve, approaching a dead end terminus too quickly, and on approach to a red signal due to a preceding train or junction. It has to remembered that ATP will not prevent all train accidents such as level crossing collisions. Brisbane's suburban network does have a train protection system called Automatic Warning System (AWS), but this outdated system can only differentiate between green and not green signals, provides no speed limit adherence, and can be overridden by the driver. AWS has not prevented many fatal accidents in the UK since it was invented in the 1930s.

There are a few locations on Brisbane's rail network where there are dead end terminus platforms - Cleveland, Domestic Airport, the under construction Ferny Grove station, and the planned Kippa-Ring station. Whilst there have been no known recent incidents in Brisbane, dead end termini around the world have a poor safety record. For example the 1975 crash at Moorgate in London killed 43 passengers - this was even with red lights, speed limits, and a dead-mans handle. A dead end terminus accident that injured hundreds allegedly occurred at South Brisbane in 1957. Continuous ATP would prevent the vast majority of causes of dead end termini accidents.

There is also nothing to prevent speeding around the many sharp curves which plague Brisbane's rail network. This was the cause of Brisbane's worst train accident at Camp Mountain crash near Samford in 1947 which killed 16 passengers. Speeding around a sharp corner was the cause of Japan's terrible Amagasaki train crash in 2005 which killed 106 passengers. The Waterfall train accident in NSW in 2003, and Tilt Train accident in 2004 were also caused by trains speeding around a curve too fast. Queensland's narrow "cape gauge" also increases the risk of derailment on sharp curves compared to standard or wide gauge track.

Despite lacking ATP, SE Queensland's rail network has had a very good safety record since electrification. This is likely to be due to QRs high safety standards, culture, and training. Brisbane's infrequent train services and little bit of luck may also be a factor. A recent review by Queensland Department of Main Roads and Transport showed that the most suitable ATP system for SE Queensland would be European Train Control System (ETCS) - Level 2. This is a radio based signalling system with continuous ATP based on widely adopted European standards. The time frame of the implementation of this system is unfortunately unknown to the public. BrizCommuter would like to see installation of ATP to be an election issue. The likelihood of being killed or injured whilst travelling by train is a fraction of the risk travelling by car. However, until ATP is installed on Brisbane's commuter railway system, then SE Queensland's dead end termini, sharp bends, and many non-grade separated junctions could be an accident waiting to happen.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 03:02:29 AM by ozbob »
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Melbourne Age --> Commuters could suffer without train technology boost, public transport chief warns

========================

Melbourne is the second largest Australian city with a traditional strong reliance on public transport, boasting the largest city tram network in the world. CBTC was identified as the best technology to facilitate future capacity increase on the metropolitan rail network in Melbourne which will be of even bigger importance for public commuting as the city keeps growing and roads near clogging point.

http://cbtckickstarter.com/register/cbtc-kickstarter-melbourne-australia,-august-2015.html

========================

11:37 AM - 15 May 2015

Twitter

Andrew Lund @andrew_lund

PTV boss says the technology selected for high capacity signalling trial is "CBTC". Hopefully that means something to people? #paec
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 03:16:10 AM by ozbob »
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http://www.bombardier.com/en/transportation/products-services/rail-control-solutions/cbtc.html

Communications-Based Train Control CBTC

Major benefits of CBTC solutions provided by Bombardier include:

    Providing an integrated system based upon state-of-the-art CBTC with bi-directional radio communications.
    Improved transport capacity to optimise use of the infrastructure: track and trains.
    Ensuring maximum system availability thanks to a systematic introduction of redundancy features.
    Optimised train operation, improving regularity and achieving energy savings through automatic driving functions (driving strategies).
    Enhanced system supervision and control from centralised Automatic Train Control (ATC) location, thanks to bidirectional communication capabilities and integrated data network.
    Providing a transparent migration path from the legacy system to the new system functionality, if required.
    Reduced lifecycle and maintenance costs - reduced maintenance costs as a result of less wayside equipment required.

Increased capacity and improved safety

Bombardier Transportation’s CITYFLO 650 solution is a computer-based radio controlled, moving block Automatic Train control (ATC) system which does not require physical train detection devices or an onboard operator.
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From the Couriermail 23rd May 2015 page 13

Push on to bring in rail safety system

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Offline #Metro

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Queensland will have to rip out seats. Overseas places do this, Metro Melbourne is starting on this path as well.

Can't have it all different ways at once. If there is no CRR, no money for train control upgrades etc, then sorry, that does not work. You are going to have crowds galore and it will be quite unsafe. Not the first time someone has fainted in the crush on a train and then the emergency stop button has been pressed - halting the train and disrupting network services...

As a side note, now that the Queensland Government is fully aware of the danger, if anybody is injured or heaven forbid, dies in a train incident that could have been ATP preventable, it is going to be a total lawyers picnic, like Wivenhoe class action after the floods in 2011.

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Offline HappyTrainGuy

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As a side note, now that the Queensland Government is fully aware of the danger, if anybody is injured or heaven forbid, dies in a train incident that could have been ATP preventable, it is going to be a total lawyers picnic, like Wivenhoe class action after the floods in 2011.

You're jumping the gun a bit there mate ;)

Re fainting. You'll find that its quite a common practice all over the world and its not from loadings but the rush rush of the morning, skipping breakfast, poor dieting, lifestyle or social fads/peer pressure.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 05:51:16 PM by HappyTrainGuy »
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Passengers are fainting on Perth's overcrowded trains

Quote
OVERCROWDING on Perth trains is causing passengers - including expectant mothers - to faint from a lack of oxygen.

The Public Transport Authority has admitted that so far this year at least 25 people have fainted in railcars, including "several" pregnant passengers.

Transit guards claim the figure is much higher, with one officer telling The Sunday Times they had witnessed up to five people fainting one morning on the Joondalup line last month.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/passengers-are-fainting-on-perths-overcrowded-trains/story-e6frg13u-1226448355805

Quote
OVERCROWDING on commuter trains has led to a spate of passengers fainting from lack of oxygen, and a GP working near one Dublin train corridor has slammed our "creaking" train system.

Dr James Reilly says he is seeing an increasing number of patients who attend his clinic in Lusk, Co Dublin, after passing out on board packed commuter lines. Dr Reilly, the former head of the Irish Medical Organisation, said the phenomenon was a direct result of the "creaking" public transport system, which is so inadequate that most trains are packed after just a few stops.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/commuter-safety-at-risk-as-fainting-spate-hits-crowded-creaking-trains-26412184.html
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