Multi door boarding for UQ Lakes services?

[somebody]

If there are any services which need multi door boarding, these are it!  Particularly the 169 which I would say does a lot of the heavy lifting, far more than the 109.

I'd say there should be 3 door bendies on a 169-Glider with all door boarding.  Probably need rear door supervisors at Park Rd 7:30am-10am and at UQ Lakes 3:30pm-5:30pm.

[minbrisbane]

Agree!  It would halve the boarding time at least. 

[SteelPan]

OR, we could get serious and put an underground rail line out through the West-End way, under the river and roar straight into UQ - NO WAIT, sorry, it's Briiisssbbbaannneee, forgot we "CAN'T" do that, it says so in the Constitution apparently...buses do us, that's all we need...... 

[Gazza]

Until such time as the rail line gets built, you'd still want multi door boarding of buses in the meantime, Steelpan.

[SteelPan]

Until such time as the rail line gets built, you'd still want multi door boarding of buses in the meantime, Steelpan.

True 

[haakon]

UQ lakes would be the worst place for multi door boarding, you would need a full time Translink officer for each bay to watch the students as they enter the rear door and make sure they tag on.

[somebody]

UQ lakes would be the worst place for multi door boarding, you would need a full time Translink officer for each bay to watch the students as they enter the rear door and make sure they tag on.

Which I did mention in the OP.

[longboi]

UQ lakes would be the worst place for multi door boarding, you would need a full time Translink officer for each bay to watch the students as they enter the rear door and make sure they tag on.

Which I did mention in the OP.

Which they would never agree to and is a waste of resources.

At best private security would get that gig.

[somebody]

How can you be so sure nikko?  STA think it's worthwhile for the 891 and 895 services, why wouldn't it work for the UQ Lakes services?

[aldonius]

The more I think about this, the more I think it'd be better to just push for all-door boarding & paid platforms on the busway in general, using Lakes as a case in point.

[ozbob]

The more I think about this, the more I think it'd be better to just push for all-door boarding & paid platforms on the busway in general, using Lakes as a case in point.

Got merit IMHO ... 

[somebody]

BTW, I don't think it's the hugest deal about fare evasion on the 169, 29 and 109 services.  Lion's share of passengers are interchanging and so they'll get hit on the next service anyway.

[HappyTrainGuy]

RTT, those places don't have such an expensive fare based system and blant fare evading to contend with

[somebody]

The current penalties listed here of $5 for buses and $10 for trains is pathetic and only encourages people to try not touching off. It should be small fine for first offence of a minimum of $25 each 12mths and then $100 or more for following.

That's the no touch off penalty.  The penalty for being caught not touching on is much more.

[somebody]

Why's it too cheap?   In peak hour on an adult Go Card, Central-Rosewood is $8.26, Central-Beerburrum is $9.54, Central-Coomera is $9.54.  Stations Coomera to Varsity Lakes are gated and if they aren't manned I'm not sure what the excuse is for that.  It's only an issue beyond Beerburrum and there aren't so many of those travellers.

No touch off penalties are quite high enough, thanks.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Hahaha tell that to SPER mate.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/unpaid-fines-flying-towards-1-billion/story-e6freon6-1226424871566

[somebody]

Hahaha tell that to SPER mate.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/unpaid-fines-flying-towards-1-billion/story-e6freon6-1226424871566

Get a grip, HTG.  SPER would never find out about a negative Go Card balance.  There is no relevance.

[somebody]

Why do we have a failure to touch off fee of $10? Isn't not touching off a form of fare evasion?

In 99% of cases, no!  As I've detailed above.  This is a fundamental flaw in your entire argument.

No touch off penalties are a bit of a disincentive to use Go Card and I'd hate to see them increased.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Hahaha tell that to SPER mate.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/unpaid-fines-flying-towards-1-billion/story-e6freon6-1226424871566

Get a grip, HTG.  SPER would never find out about a negative Go Card balance.  There is no relevance.

It was more directed at RTT and his fare evasion part ie fines for not travelling on a valid ticket. Not negative balance 

[HappyTrainGuy]

Sorry, but are dwell times really that much of an issue for routes that are starting there? Its the very start of a route. If its a big issue get the bus there a couple minutes earlier before its departure (you can see it at Chermside with the 338. Sometimes it will wait at the stop for 5-10 minutes before its departure and other times it rocks up 30 seconds before or at the departure time. The same with the 333. Some drivers will wait 10 minutes in the stop bay and other times the same bus would be waiting in the parking bay only to rock up 1 minute before departure) and if dwell times really should be reduced impliment pre paid boarding only which should already be in force at all interchanges (eg Chermside and alike) and busway stations. There is no excuse as to why that isn't already in use. Impliment it there and for a 2 weeks have Translink staff helping out selling GoCards during peak times along with additional or upgraded ticket machines to offer paper/gocards.

And FYI RTT, you can get more expensive trips if you are going futher across the network eg say if I go from Petrie to Nerang or Northgate to Ipswich. Toowong to Nambour etc.

Why do other countries see no touching off as fare evasion and Qld not?

Other PT systems are better set up in terms of routes and modes of travel than compared to our network such as small feeder routes futher out feeding into a railway while we have long distance from your front door to the city centre duplicating and competing bus routes. I'd be the very first to put my hand up and say our network is one of the best in the world in terms of intergrated ticketing compared to other PT networks. There are still faults but there needs to be work done to address these issues and faults/flaws.

[ozbob]

Don't forget the return legs ....   touch on going home with minimal credit ...

[aldonius]

You're correct HTG, outbound services tend to open for boarding a couple of minutes before departure. So they're not the issue.

The places which would have substantially improved dwell times are Boggo Rd in the AM (and, I'd wager, South Bank in the PM).

Boggo Rd platform 6 actually has the stairs in the 'wrong' spot for effective platform utilisation under heavy load, but that's a different rant...

[somebody]

Now but back to the topic, how do you enable multi door loading without people ripping off the system?

How do you run the system at all without people ripping it off.  The revenue lost from what I was outlining above would be minimal, and probably made up for in operating cost savings.

Why do other countries see no touching off as fare evasion and Qld not?

What countries are you referring to?

Paper tickets are going, sooner or later people won't have the choice and if someone wants to pay the horrid cost to use paper in mean time, good luck to them.

As a society, I think we should take a more responsible attitude and save these idiots from themselves.  And people using paper tickets are very annoying on buses!  If you were writing this from Brisbane as a bus user rather than from Dubai you would be able to see that.

Sorry, but are dwell times really that much of an issue for routes that are starting there? Its the very start of a route.

Well you are surely aware of the recent upgrade there due to insufficient stop space.  Shorter dwells would make better use of existing stop space.

Boggo Rd platform 6 actually has the stairs in the 'wrong' spot for effective platform utilisation under heavy load, but that's a different rant...

That's not a big problem though.  The platform is wide enough even if it does have inconveniently located furniture.

[aldonius]

Simon: I'm talking about the way the queue curls around the bottom of the stairs rather than along the platform. Increases dwell times for the second buses once they show up, and means you can't judge how much free capacity is on them.

[BrizCommuter]

No touch off penalties are a bit of a disincentive to use Go Card and I'd hate to see them increased.

+1

The system is too unreliable for fixed fares to be any higher. The risk of accidental fixed fares is already in incentive to use public transport.

BrizCommuter has had:
- 3 "failed" touch ons when boarding buses when he had a green light!
- 2 "failed" touch ons in fare gates (green light, gates ? stuck open).
- 1 instance of failed touch on bus due to failed reader at start of trip, but forgot to not touch off when readers started working again mid trip.
- A near miss when arriving at Roma Street platform 10 (some other passengers got caught out).

[longboi]

How can you be so sure nikko?  STA think it's worthwhile for the 891 and 895 services, why wouldn't it work for the UQ Lakes services?

Because I know the people who make such decisions and can picture them saying that exact same thing.

STA most likely have the resources to do so and are confined to the bus and ferry network.

I believe paying for transit officers to "guard" rear doors wouldn't be conducive to protecting revenue. Or in dollar terms, I don't believe allowing all-door boarding would result in an increase in revenue leakage any greater than the rest of the network. The benefit of slightly quicker boarding times does not outweigh the staffing costs to do so. In fact, the idea of having pre-paid platforms enforced by SNOs was rejected because of the same reason.

I think you can get the same rate of compliance by making all Busway services rear-door boarding (as already suggested), and having SNOs continue to operate as they currently do; targeting UQ Lakes at the same rate as any other busy station.

[somebody]

I was more worried about the safety aspect.  Someone needs to stop people from boarding when the bus is full and it's time to leave, even if people are still trying to get on.

[SurfRail]

^ Yep.

Maybe we can call them "guards" and give them something to signal everybody that the bus is about to move off.  Sounds efficient.

[somebody]

Not sure that's the same thing.  When was the last time you saw a train trying to leave the station while people are getting on.

Although to a degree I take your point.  Perhaps there should be an audible tone at the rear doors when the driver is trying to close it.  I don't think it would be cost effective to retrofit though.

[HappyTrainGuy]

The benefit of slightly quicker boarding times does not outweigh the staffing costs to do so. In fact, the idea of having pre-paid platforms enforced by SNOs was rejected because of the same reason.

You don't need staff to make platforms pre paid boarding only (like it used to be at CCBS/SBBS). Leading up to it have some signage around the platform entrances, have translink helpers there the week before during peak hour selling gocards/handing out brouchers etc, after its implimented for a couple weeks have some translink helpers at the stations selling go cards, have signage saying this is a pre paid only stop. Since its a prepaid stop the driver won't let you on if you don't have a gocard or pre paid ticket.

[HappyTrainGuy]

When was the last time you saw a train trying to leave the station while people are getting on.

June 2011 

[somebody]

When was the last time you saw a train trying to leave the station while people are getting on.

June 2011 

Touche!

-
Is it still unclear what I'm concerned about?  Consider the scenario that people are loading into the rear door but there are more people that will fit.  Driver decides that all the people that should be able to get on are on.  What does he do, yell out to people at the rear door of a bendy?

[HappyTrainGuy]

When was the last time you saw a train trying to leave the station while people are getting on.

June 2011 

Touche!

If you want to include people running and getting stuck in closing doors? Just last week

[SurfRail]

When was the last time you saw a train trying to leave the station while people are getting on.

June 2011 

Touche!

-
Is it still unclear what I'm concerned about?  Consider the scenario that people are loading into the rear door but there are more people that will fit.  Driver decides that all the people that should be able to get on are on.  What does he do, yell out to people at the rear door of a bendy?

The pertinent question is "How does everybody else in the world deal with it?"

Does anybody know?

[longboi]

The benefit of slightly quicker boarding times does not outweigh the staffing costs to do so. In fact, the idea of having pre-paid platforms enforced by SNOs was rejected because of the same reason.

You don't need staff to make platforms pre paid boarding only (like it used to be at CCBS/SBBS). Leading up to it have some signage around the platform entrances, have translink helpers there the week before during peak hour selling gocards/handing out brouchers etc, after its implimented for a couple weeks have some translink helpers at the stations selling go cards, have signage saying this is a pre paid only stop. Since its a prepaid stop the driver won't let you on if you don't have a gocard or pre paid ticket.

My opinion is that a setup such as that would work for a few weeks, maybe months, but fall down pretty quickly and people will get back into old habits. You may disagree but I do know how PT operates - customers and staff - and based on my experiences I don't hold much hope for such things. Behaviour change really needs to be consistent (People still ask BT drivers to top up their go card, for example).

[#Metro]

Muti-door boarding is achievable across the network provided that all paper is pulled, inspections and fines are boosted, major busway stations in the CBD become closed (optional, but recommended).

Multi-door is achievable in Melbourne on any bus route if they wanted to because paper is dead and it's all cards now.

[SurfRail]

(People still ask BT drivers to top up their go card, for example).

And why shouldn't they?  Why should passengers have to remember and deal with stupid union-sponsored distinctions between them and everybody else?

[#Metro]

Ugh, just privatise it!

[HappyTrainGuy]

Why should there even be top ups on buses. All they do is slow them down. Hurry up and roll out more top up locations and purchase points.

[longboi]

(People still ask BT drivers to top up their go card, for example).

And why shouldn't they?  Why should passengers have to remember and deal with stupid union-sponsored distinctions between them and everybody else?

I never said they shouldn't.

The mere fact proves my point. Having silly exceptions mean that you can't establish consistent passenger behaviour.

That's why I'm saying if you go multi-door boarding at one Busway station, you may as well include them all (or the entire bus network); which I support.