Brisbane Transport Buses: Privatise or Not?

[#Metro]

And a freudian slip of the tounge reveals that BCC does think itself on par with a state government or city-state.

LORD MAYOR:   Well, you know, this is an interesting argument, Councillor ABRAHAMS, because for quite a considerable period of time, I have had Councillor NEWTON in this Chamber—have a look at Hansard—

Hansards are for Parliaments. Meeting Minutes are for councils. Well well well...

[#Metro]

The following excerpt is taken from an RBTU operated facebook page.

Extract of speech presented to BCC Cabinet last Tuesday 19th March 2013 by RTBU Secretary Bus Division Mr David Matters & response by BCC Transport Chair Councillor Mr Peter Matic;

Mr David Matters:
Thank you Councillor de WIT,
thank you LORD MAYOR,
thank you Councillors.

I am pleased to be here speaking for our union and our bus members about these horrendous changes proposed by TransLink to our city. I think I stand here amongst people, no matter what political party, who care about this city, who want to see these changes brought to a stop, who care about the innocent elderly people being asked to walk uphill, up to 800 metres, to train stations over a kilometre away, to the people of Brisbane who are being asked to change buses more than two to three times, who are being asked to extend their journey time to work.

From TransLink, who openly admit that, instead of demand management for cars, they have introduced demand management for public transport that they have priced public transport out of the reach of poor people, that their policy is what they call an aggressive sphere strategy to reduce our public transport, and to our team of people developing this system, who have developed it with care for this city, have made it work and, despite the efforts of TransLink, have continued the growth in Brisbane City Council.

We have the situation where they are lying to the people of Brisbane about frequent services. They say they are going to increase to Twenty—six, from 19; 32 frequent services already exist if not more. They are attacking the people during the middle of the day where this Council service uses its resources efficiently and effectively by providing services throughout the day and up to 24 hours on some days. They are reducing it back to 11 p.m. They are stopping people from getting to work before 5 o'clock in the morning. They are asking care of elderly people in nursing homes to not be able to have a bus service. They are taking away from the Catholic University, from the sheltered workshops. They are taking away from those people their bus service.

They are taking the word 'service' away from buses. We say to you we need to save our services, and we say to you we are going to be with you to stand up for Brisbane. I have always been a patriot of Brisbane. I have always supported our great city. We have a world class public transport system that is under assault. I have some dubiousness about the preparations that are being made to sell that system to some foreign multinational. I hope it is not Stagecoach, because that seems to be a favoured part of the report, that they point to Auckland with their miserable public servants of buses, with their $14 an hour wages to bus drivers, and they call that a community standard. That is not a standard we want in Brisbane.

We need to have the government act and not continue with this TransLink debacle. They have to support the people of Brisbane. When Campbell Newman was elected, he was overwhelmingly elected in Brisbane. The majority of his seats are in Brisbane, and he stood here in this Chamber helping to develop this bus service. Now he stands ahead of a government that proposes to wreck it. He needs to stand up to that government, and he needs to stand with his Liberal National Party colleagues here in the Council who are saying, along with their Labor colleagues, that we all care for Brisbane, no matter what our political differences are. That is important to us. We say again to you: stand up for Brisbane.

This is an assault on the poorest and the most vulnerable in the community. Bus drivers connect with the most poor. When you have recessions, we see the soup kitchens first thing in the morning. We know when people are unemployed. We see the people who are homeless. We see the people who have not enough to eat, and we see the people when they emptied out all the mental institutions that we cared for and provided people to talk to. We talk to the elderly. We are part of the community, and we should be supported.

It is outrageous the way they have victimised Brisbane. They say our population base is 3 million in South-East Queensland, and they run our base for our collection of seats to that level, when we actually have 1 million possible people. That is a false lie in that report. They run our costs against the whole of TransLink costs, when the Brisbane transport system is by far one of the most efficient and effective users of public money. We all know that in here. We know that we have done the job. We know we have had our differences as a union and an employer, but on this issue we don't have a difference, and we know that we have worked out that we want to continue a bus service in Brisbane.

Some of our members say: ask the Council to take it back off the State Government. We have had enough of what they're doing. We've heard enough of our managers complaining about what TransLink has done to services. I thank you very much. Stand up for Brisbane.

Chairman: Thank you; thank you, Mr Matters. Councillor MATIC, would you like to respond?

Councillor MATIC: Thank you, Madam Chairman.

Could I begin by thanking Mr Matters for his attendance today and for addressing the Chamber so eloquently on what is such an important issue for our city. Can I begin, of course, by acknowledging the work that you do on behalf of your members and the way that you work with this Council so well in providing the service that we do to our city as a whole. I would also like to acknowledge the words that you have said today to the Chamber.

As you aware, we had a motion in this Chamber last week on which all sides agreed that what the TransLink review is doing is substantial and will change the nature of bus travel in our city, but will change irrevocably the route system, the way we get around and the ease of the way that people get around this city.

As you are aware, we want to work hand-in-hand moving forward to address this issue, and just like you, the LORD MAYOR and all the Councillors here want to work effectively to convey the message to TransLink and to the minister's office that the people of Brisbane are not happy, and that we are going to be able to reflect the concerns of all residents back to them and to make sure that they get that message quite clearly.

We are aware that the minister made an announcement this morning on six changes to routes that they had previously altered quite significantly. That is a step in the right direction. But we want to make sure that we continue to sell the message strongly, that there are changes across this city, vital important services just as you mentioned, that affect the elderly, students, people getting to work in their day-to-day activities. They need to know that they are making changes that will completely and utterly change the way those people get around.

So, can I say that this is a vital issue for our city, and we certainly appreciate your efforts in this process. We will continue to make those strong representations to the state until TransLink get it right. As the minister said in an interview earlier this week, TransLink got it wrong.

Well, they got it wrong in a lot of instances across this city, and we want to move forwards making sure that they get it right for the people of Brisbane, so that all the work that you have invested, that we as an Administration have invested over the years, financially and structurally, towards our bus network, building a strong foundation to make it a world—class service, just as you said.

We want to make sure that that is not eroded by those obviously in TransLink who do not understand how our network properly works. We want to make sure that we protect that service for all of Brisbane's residents now and in the future. Thank you very much for your attendance.

[#Metro]

You will notice that this meeting at BCC took place on the 19th... the announcement for the handover by LNP state gov came only a few days later, on March 21st 2013.

It appears that BCC, RBTU collaborated to kill off the bus review...

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/city-hall-left-holding-the-go-card-after-complaining-about-bus-route-changes-20130321-2gi1x.html

[#Metro]

Second interesting observation is that the PT committee of BCC seems to be making out (faking out?) that they're pushing and telling TL what they want ... but if that was the case, would it not have been easier to actually co-operate in the review??? Something doesn't make sense here.

We will continue to make those strong representations to the state until TransLink get it right. As the minister said in an interview earlier this week, TransLink got it wrong.

Well, they got it wrong in a lot of instances across this city, and we want to move forwards making sure that they get it right for the people of Brisbane, so that all the work that you have invested, that we as an Administration have invested over the years, financially and structurally, towards our bus network, building a strong foundation to make it a world—class service, just as you said.

[ozbob]

The unions have been manipulated, they failed to see past the kneejerk hysteria, they have signed their 'death warrants'. A short term ' victory ' that will ultimately render them irrelevant.  Rail will now continue to be not supported by frequent feeder buses,  be flogged off, bus not far behind it.

The root problem was the intransigence of BCC to cooperate, and the unions just acted in a very dumb and non-astute manner, as did the ALP state Members and Councillors. 

I have no doubt that had they (BCC- BT) taken part in the review as per other operators there would have been a much better outcome.

[ozbob]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Simon. 

I starting to wonder if the whole exercise (the proposed changes) is a sophisticated game of double bluff?  Ambit plan ....

Every time I think of Sherwood road with all the buses going backwards and forwards to the (new) depot but not a bus for passengers along that corridor I wonder a bit ...

I had a feeling something was up when I posted this on the 13th March 2013.  I am not one for conspiracy theories but as it played out it does seem this has been an exercise to set up a privatisation platform.  TransLink have been done over, the unions have been politically compromised, the ALP has fallen into the trap.

Things are not always what they seem folks. 

[SurfRail]

Well if BT is privatised and the RTBU is no longer interested in the system because it has descended to leper status (private operator), frankly it is no less than they deserve.  The TWU in Perth is a toothless tiger and they still have a safer, better system and one where drivers are better paid than here.

The system is there for the public's benefit, not the union's.

[#Metro]

Well if BT is privatised and the RTBU is no longer interested in the system because it has descended to leper status (private operator), frankly it is no less than they deserve.  The TWU in Perth is a toothless tiger and they still have a safer, better system and one where drivers are better paid than here.

The system is there for the public's benefit, not the union's.

Can you please provide links/facts/numbers to back this up? BTW, I have seen all the attacks on Mr Dow and yourself and the facebook page, it's disgusting.

[#Metro]

This discussion forum may be of interest, --->

http://www.busaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=65876

The full time swan transit rate is now $28.20 an hour the casual rate is $32.70

Can anyone verify these numbers from private operators in Perth?

http://www.busaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=57293

When I joined Swan Transit I was not given the option of the 'AWA' or 'CLC' this is not available for new drivers. The current rate of pay for a full time driver is $28.20 hr. AWA/CLC is $29.58 hr. There is plenty of opportunity for overtime. The only draw backs are the early starts and late finish with a great big lunch break.

[#Metro]

Current status at Brisbane Transport

Bus driver benefits
Brisbane City Council offers attractive wages and excellent conditions for bus drivers including:

fully paid comprehensive training, including training in customer service, electronic ticketing and procedures
a range of flexible work options
free uniforms
9% superannuation contribution for trainees and casuals (you can also make voluntary contributions)
weekly wages paid directly into your nominated bank account
Shifts run seven days a week. The earliest shifts start at about 4am and most late shifts finish by 2am.

Full-time or casual

If you prefer shorter shifts (three to five hours), particularly in the morning and afternoon peak times, then look at casual employment.

However, if you want to work full-time (38 hours per week), apply for a traineeship.

Casual employment

Casual employees are hired on an hourly basis and are paid for hours worked. Work is scheduled according to business needs.

Most casual work is in the morning and afternoon peaks, Monday to Friday. Casual bus operators also perform charter work and special events.

You need to be available to work a minimum of any three days between Monday and Friday, or five mornings or five afternoons Monday to Friday.

The hourly pay rate is $28.26 (this includes 23% loading) plus overtime and penalty rates paid as applicable.

Full-time employment (traineeships)

Full-time Bus Operators are initially employed as trainees.  While completing your traineeship, you will be employed on a temporary full-time basis (38 hour week).

Traineeships:

are usually for up to two years (but can be shorter depending on prior transport experience)
offer full-time work while completing a Certificate III in Driving Operations
A permanent position may be offered if you complete the traineeship and meet Brisbane Transport's performance standards.

Initially, you will be required to work different shifts including early, late, afternoon and broken shifts. You will need to be available to work whatever is offered.

Trainee Bus Operators' starting base pay rate is $803.30 per week (gross) plus overtime and penalty rates as applicable.  After 13 months, if you meet Brisbane Transport performance standards, your pay will increase to $873.10 per week (gross) plus overtime and penalty rates as applicable.

[somebody]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Simon. 

I starting to wonder if the whole exercise (the proposed changes) is a sophisticated game of double bluff?  Ambit plan ....

Every time I think of Sherwood road with all the buses going backwards and forwards to the (new) depot but not a bus for passengers along that corridor I wonder a bit ...

I had a feeling something was up when I posted this on the 13th March 2013.  I am not one for conspiracy theories but as it played out it does seem this has been an exercise to set up a privatisation platform.  TransLink have been done over, the unions have been politically compromised, the ALP has fallen into the trap.

Things are not always what they seem folks.

If they want to do it, they have the power to just ram it in.  I guess it might be unpopular and take more than one electoral cycle - costing them seats in 2015.  Is that what you see as the reason for this?

I tend to blame incompetence rather than malice for this debacle.

[somebody]

Buses need to remain in state ownership.  It's not feasible to buy 1000 buses to replace a recalcitrant operator.

[SurfRail]

Buses need to remain in state ownership.  It's not feasible to buy 1000 buses to replace a recalcitrant operator.

As Sydney is about to find out.  It is going to be an Herculean effort for the new operators to get the buses they need if the incumbents decide to hang onto everything that isn't government owned and send them on to their other operations.

At least they are doing it - over time it won't be an issue any more as the government funds more and more (and consequently owns more and more) of the fleet.

[somebody]

Buses need to remain in state ownership.  It's not feasible to buy 1000 buses to replace a recalcitrant operator.

As Sydney is about to find out.  It is going to be an Herculean effort for the new operators to get the buses they need if the incumbents decide to hang onto everything that isn't government owned and send them on to their other operations.

At least they are doing it - over time it won't be an issue any more as the government funds more and more (and consequently owns more and more) of the fleet.

And they've had state ownership of new buses for a while.

[somebody]

Buses need to remain in state ownership.  It's not feasible to buy 1000 buses to replace a recalcitrant operator.

Why, Both Sydney and Brisbane at least have plenty of private operators, any gone recalcitrant? From a franchise point of view I agree its easier.

Talk to mufreight about Westside in Qld.

Sydney have long stopped allowing private bus operators to buy new vehicles in their own name.   As for a recalcitrant operator there, you need to look no further than Harris Park Transport.  Any service they provided to the public was purely coincidental at times.  Fortunately they are gone, and good riddance to those tyrants.

[ozbob]

Westside are travelling well these days.  Sorting out the timetables was an important factor, in the old days there were different timetables depending where you looked and some buses left before they arrived, if you get my drift.  Drivers are a good bunch I have found.

Westside will be involved with Springfield improvements too I expect.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Buses need to remain in state ownership.  It's not feasible to buy 1000 buses to replace a recalcitrant operator.

Why, Both Sydney and Brisbane at least have plenty of private operators, any gone recalcitrant? From a franchise point of view I agree its easier.

Thompsons is another. Like Westside they got their act (routes/timetables etc) together when we had the local Northern Region Review. I'd like to see them offer a better frequency than hourly during peak hour. I see more of their buses running during track closures or on school/charter runs than I do during their normal daily local duties.

[ozbob]

Thompsons get out to Goodna  Ipswich during the closures ...  some nice buses ...

One hour peak service, sounds like you lot have it too easy ...   

[HappyTrainGuy]

Hourly peak hour routes. 90 minute gaps in peak hour. Buses in bed before sundown. Grass bus stops. We've got it all! 

[SteelPan]

I think some of you must be overdosing on choccy eggs of late!

1) Can you imagine under an ALP govt people running around, willingly, saying a current public asset must now be privatised?  Look at the "blood on the floor" pain Labor admins go through, across the nation, when they have privitised state owned assets and yes, they have!  So now, under an LNP govt, it's a bit rich to suddenly say BCC Transport should now be privitised - there are HEAPS of cities the world over which operate city owned transit systems and BCC Transport privitisation has, to my knowledge, never been seriously put on the table for community discussion.

2) The recent move by the Qld Govt to give the BCC the lead charge on possible changes to the BCC Transport bus system is really just 100% common-sense and has been badly handled by some people.  Do people REALLY believe, that George St is the best place to have mass transit decisions made for SE Qld, including the City of Brisbane?  It is the BCC, not the State Govt which has run buses in this city for generations and trams before them, let the BCC get on with what it knows best and come up with REAL WORKABLE plans and see what those plans are before attacking them.

3) The George St led plans for the bus system were in part poor, like breaking bus trips in from places like Moggill - if you want to argue that basic fact, you'll simply show you know nothing of public transit studies the world over, break trips loose passengers, it's as simple as that.

4) What the current state govt should do, is let a full review process for all public transit be undertaken over the remainder of 2013, by the agreed bodies and then, go to the people at the next state election with a proposal for a proper SE Qld Public Transit Authority, NOT some half pregnant toothless beast like the late Translink - SE Qld deserves better public transit - under all political colours!   

[Gazza]

if you want to argue that basic fact, you'll simply show you know nothing of public transit studies the world over, break trips loose passengers, it's as simple as that.

No you're wrong. The faster rail journeys would have attracted more passengers than the slow bus.

Can you link to the studies?

Do people REALLY believe, that George St is the best place to have mass transit decisions made for SE Qld, including the City of Brisbane?

Yes because a central agency can design a network for people, not for imaginary council boundary lines on the ground.

[somebody]

if you want to argue that basic fact, you'll simply show you know nothing of public transit studies the world over, break trips loose passengers, it's as simple as that.

No you're wrong. The faster rail journeys would have attracted more passengers than the slow bus.

Perhaps in peak hour from Moggill, but that remains to be seen.  Pretty unlikely off peak.

Got any proof of your statement, or is it just a pronouncement from a different orifice?

[#Metro]

1) Can you imagine under an ALP govt people running around, willingly, saying a current public asset must now be privatised?  Look at the "blood on the floor" pain Labor admins go through, across the nation, when they have privitised state owned assets and yes, they have!  So now, under an LNP govt, it's a bit rich to suddenly say BCC Transport should now be privitised - there are HEAPS of cities the world over which operate city owned transit systems and BCC Transport privitisation has, to my knowledge, never been seriously put on the table for community discussion.

Which cities are these? London has privatised it's buses and it's publicly regulated. But more to the point - who cares - the main issue here is that Brisbane Transport and Brisbane City Council are not at arms length (even if it looks so on paper). Why did Brisbane City Council block the use of the Eleanor Schonell Bridge to private operators when they were available to choose? I think that's against competitive neutrality principles. Why did BT not participate with TL in the bus review process? Do private bus operators now have to build their own roads through brisbane so as to avoid driving on BCC roads now? A private company would have co-operated with TL - all other 15 operators in the region did. It was possible for BCC to object and BT to still co-operate, but this did not happen.

2) The recent move by the Qld Govt to give the BCC the lead charge on possible changes to the BCC Transport bus system is really just 100% common-sense and has been badly handled by some people.  Do people REALLY believe, that George St is the best place to have mass transit decisions made for SE Qld, including the City of Brisbane?  It is the BCC, not the State Govt which has run buses in this city for generations and trams before them, let the BCC get on with what it knows best and come up with REAL WORKABLE plans and see what those plans are before attacking them.

What, the same organisation that invented my Paris Hilton Rocket 161, the same organisation whose councillors did a comedy skit in attempt to grasp network planning 101 and the same organisation that draws all the bus routes within its BCC boundaries as much as possible?

3) The George St led plans for the bus system were in part poor, like breaking bus trips in from places like Moggill - if you want to argue that basic fact, you'll simply show you know nothing of public transit studies the world over, break trips loose passengers, it's as simple as that.

So a 80 seat bus with 1 passenger on it should drive all the way to the CBD, at colossal cost, clog up Cultural Centre in the process, and deny those remaining 79 seats to other people on the system? Is this a public transport system or a publicly funded private bus limousine hire service?

If interchange is so bad, how do you explain the ~ 500 million trips in Melbourne and Toronto, both which are built around interchange (Toronto more advanced than Melbourne). 50% of trips in Melbourne by bus involve transfer. Toronto has 98% of buses run to train stations and has turned interchange into an art form.

4) What the current state govt should do, is let a full review process for all public transit be undertaken over the remainder of 2013, by the agreed bodies and then, go to the people at the next state election with a proposal for a proper SE Qld Public Transit Authority, NOT some half pregnant toothless beast like the late Translink - SE Qld deserves better public transit - under all political colours!   

Motherhood statement. Cut BT from BCC and it will be able to be managed properly. City Staff should get out of regional transport planning and stop plotting political bus routes such as the Maroon CityGlider and other projects such as the bus tunnel which advances BCC's commercial profit-seeking bus enterprise interests AND political rent-seeking political interests. The BCC bus model combines the WORST aspects of a private corporation with the worst aspects of public ownership!! When was the last time you saw the CEO of a private bus company run in an election for city Mayor AND keep his CEO position? Never! Anyway, with the bus operations as they are, the explosion of bus drivers and costs is cannibalising BCC's core functions anyway and the council does struggle somewhat with this.

The romance is over, time for BCC to get out of PT

[ozbob]

It is the BCC, not the State Govt which has run buses in this city for generations and trams before them, let the BCC get on with what it knows best and come up with REAL WORKABLE plans and see what those plans are before attacking them.

Brisbane was a lot smaller and surrounded by market gardens essentially, the network was quite isolated and it was self-contained.  Not the case today.  Council boundaries are just a continuation of suburbs.  BCC needs to be a team player now, not an obstacle, so that a better network for SEQ can be put in place.  This means supporting all modes as appropriate, allow all operators equal access and opportunity.

BCC has a chip on its shoulder about TransLink.  Time it went ...

It is time for BCC to give over BT ... Premier Newman has this right ...


Lord Mayor Campbell Newman wants State Government to run buses --> http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/campbell-newman-wants-state-government-to-run-buses/story-e6freoof-1225839337936

He was just 3 years too early ...

[SteelPan]

Yes because a central agency can design a network for people, not for imaginary council boundary lines on the ground.

Ask Qld Health if centralisation works better!

Whilst I'm happy to seek out some form of evidence for my statement re switching services, I can only assume you're being difficult - transit 101, is that when you make passengers break their journey and switch to another service of any mode, PT immediately suffers a material drop in its appeal, people favour seamless services!

[SteelPan]

The romance is over, time for BCC to get out of PT

IF, you actually read my original post, you'd see I said the BCC should give over their operation of buses, ultimately, to a proper [SEQ] State Transit Authority - but that it should all done properly this time, so as not to waste anymore time and money on half pregnant ideas like Translink!

This is about getting better PT outcomes - isn't it?   

[ozbob]

The reality is transfers are necessary and improve the network ...

PTV has launched Victoria's version of connecting SEQ 2031

Network Development Plan - Metropolitan Rail <-- 

http://ptv.vic.gov.au/news/news-promotions/network-development-plan-metropolitan-rail/

What is interesting though is the high number of transfers in Melbourne.  Melbourne has a much better public transport principally because it is a connected network.

Pg 24

Quote

   Convenient and frequent intermodal connections are a key feature of a metro-style system. A
    significant number of Melbourne's public transport trips involve such transfers – 50 per cent of all
    bus trips, 40 per cent of tram trips and 35 per cent of train trips.

[ozbob]

The romance is over, time for BCC to get out of PT

IF, you actually read my original post, you'd see I said the BCC should give over their operation of buses, ultimately, to a proper [SEQ] State Transit Authority - but that it should all done properly this time, so as not to waste anymore time and money on half pregnant ideas like Translink!

This is about getting better PT outcomes - isn't it?   

Too right    TransLink (all iterations) has never been able to operate free from political interference. 

No surprise we have now ended up with one hell of a public transport basket case ...

[#Metro]

This comment, not by me, captures what I think: 

not my mayor, thanks be! of South East Queensland Posted at 5:59 PM March 12, 2010

Lord Mayor Campbell, has it escaped your attention that Brisbane is the capital city of Queensland, and therefore belongs to all Queenslanders, not just those within your council boundaries. Brisbane benefits from the commerce it attracts, and commuters who come daily to work also contribute to its vigorous city centre. What is more - they PAY for the priviledge - and have every bit as much right to board PUBLIC TRANSPORT as any other person whose rates happen to end up in your Council coffers. And while we are on the subject, Mayor CAN DO (I think not) - why not start genuinely cooperating with neighboring councils - who also DO HAVE bus services that run a fairly satisfactory and reliable service. Logan City Council comes to mind....and by the way, it services its Brisbane City neighbors too!

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/campbell-newman-wants-state-government-to-run-buses/story-e6freoof-1225839337936

Ask Qld Health if centralisation works better!

Sorry, but Queensland health is now broken down into areas which are overseen by local health boards, not unlike how SEQ is broken into bus operator regions and 16 bus operators - of only which ONE is public (BCC).

Whilst I'm happy to seek out some form of evidence for my statement re switching services, I can only assume you're being difficult - transit 101, is that when you make passengers break their journey and switch to another service of any mode, PT immediately suffers a material drop in its appeal, people favour seamless services!

Yes, they do, but the geometry of large cities and MASS TRANSIT makes this less and less possible the larger a city becomes. Connective networks start to have a big advantage. I observe that people also like to drive and have direct trips, if we followed your logic, we'd only give people car travel as that connects any two points in a city. It is also mathematically impossible - connecting every point to every other point with a direct in a city would result in thousands of new bus routes having to be created. Again, geometric.

[Gazza]

Yes because a central agency can design a network for people, not for imaginary council boundary lines on the ground.

Ask Qld Health if centralisation works better!

Whilst I'm happy to seek out some form of evidence for my statement re switching services, I can only assume you're being difficult - transit 101, is that when you make passengers break their journey and switch to another service of any mode, PT immediately suffers a material drop in its appeal, people favour seamless services!

I think theres a big difference between hospitals 2000km away, and bus routes that are only 50km away.

Brisbane is a big blob of suburbia, and should be planned as such.

[#Metro]

IF, you actually read my original post, you'd see I said the BCC should give over their operation of buses, ultimately, to a proper [SEQ] State Transit Authority - but that it should all done properly this time, so as not to waste anymore time and money on half pregnant ideas like Translink!

This is about getting better PT outcomes - isn't it?   

I doubt this will happen simply due to cost, because there are 15 other private operators within SEQ that operate and aren't owned by the state, and there is no compelling case as to why the state gov't should run the buses or public servants drive them. Even in Perth, the bus operations are private, the result of a breakup and privatisation of the bus ownership over there. Melbourne has always had private operators since the 1920s.

[somebody]

I can only assume you're being difficult

Agree.

[SteelPan]

IF, you actually read my original post, you'd see I said the BCC should give over their operation of buses, ultimately, to a proper [SEQ] State Transit Authority - but that it should all done properly this time, so as not to waste anymore time and money on half pregnant ideas like Translink!

This is about getting better PT outcomes - isn't it?   

I doubt this will happen simply due to cost, because there are 15 other private operators within SEQ that operate and aren't owned by the state, and there is no compelling case as to why the state gov't should run the buses or public servants drive them. Even in Perth, the bus operations are private, the result of a breakup and privatisation of the bus ownership over there. Melbourne has always had private operators since the 1920s.

Well then, do you have suggestions for a possible path forward?

[somebody]

No surprise we have now ended up with one hell of a public transport basket case ...

I lay much blame at the feet of QR.  They actually perform worse than Cityrail on many measures and want to keep things the way they are.

Lord Mayor Campbell Newman wants State Government to run buses --> http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/campbell-newman-wants-state-government-to-run-buses/story-e6freoof-1225839337936

He was just 3 years too early ...

And what a disgrace it was that Anna Blight refused.  Good thing she's gone.

[#Metro]

Well then, do you have suggestions for a possible path forward?

RAILBOT can incorporate and buy out BT with a great big loan, and we'll run the services ourselves and draw the routings up. 
We can even put a 524 Storr Cct Rocket to boot. Have you seen the route 161 Paris Hilton Rocket route diagram? It does like 2 or three streets and then *BLASTOFF* to the CBD express via the busway. Puts the space shuttle to shame!
(NB: this is a joke!!)

Proposed Storr Cct Rocket

[HappyTrainGuy]

if you want to argue that basic fact, you'll simply show you know nothing of public transit studies the world over, break trips loose passengers, it's as simple as that.

No you're wrong. The faster rail journeys would have attracted more passengers than the slow bus.

Like it or not rail can trump speed and time wise the current buses. At least on the northside where the speed boards commonly display 100. The thing slowing them down is the lack of patronage as a result of poor walk up (due to competing bus routes/poor feeders/poor access to platforms - Zillmere: Why walk to the station from the north and then backtrack to get to the platform when you can walk half way there and wait at the bus stop) and poor feeder network so they have to cater for everyone (off peak wise). To give you an example its about 15 mins City-Carseldine non stop express on a train which is very comparable to driving your own car from Carseldine to RBWH or herston to chermside on the 330 (Express wise a train will beat you in a car everytime from Petrie-Northgate. Freight trains will beat you even with their restrictions. I think the Airport Junction still has its speed mods in place too?). On the old timetable it was faster to go from Roma Street to Eatons Hill by catching the train to Strathpine then walking across the road to jump on a 338 going inbound to Chermside and getting off at Eatons Hill than it was to board the 357/359 at Roma Street and having it stuck in thick traffic all the way to Eatons Hill. Same with the old 340/341. It was faster to train to Carseldine and then board a citybound 340 than it was to have that one seat journey. During peak hour 340+Citybound train is slightly faster than the 340 Carseldine-Roma Street. Ridley street in Carseldine to Roma Street is about 45 minutes by the 340. Carseldine station to Roma Street is about 34 minutes. Too bad that first 5 minute bus to Carseldine station where there is a train every 7 minutes arrives there at 7.45am.

Taigum is still faster by catching the train to Geebung and Carseldine to board the outbound 325/335 as the train in peak hour leap frogs ahead of the other bus services due to traffic. Train to Boondall and inbound 325 was marginal IIRC depending on where you were going/peak hour traffic on Sandgate road. Cyclists are even faster than the 310/315 along Sandgate road (i'll try to find that video of someguy passing a bucket load of cars stuck in congestion on his bike..... if I can find it i'll include the video of another guy walking past all the traffic/buses  ). Northgate-Shorncliffe the train trumps the 315/310 bus.

You have to remember that trains are very capable of some quick transport times with alot of people. Brisbane needs a proper network that feeds people onto and from trains, a good railway network and a good bus network. Something that currently only exists in parts here and there.

I lay much blame at the feet of QR.  They actually perform worse than Cityrail on many measures and want to keep things the way they are.

Haha Come off it. QR aren't to blame. They have had some big ideas to step forward but have been denied them or had to make do.

[SteelPan]

No surprise we have now ended up with one hell of a public transport basket case ...

I lay much blame at the feet of QR.  They actually perform worse than Cityrail on many measures and want to keep things the way they are.

Lord Mayor Campbell Newman wants State Government to run buses --> http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/campbell-newman-wants-state-government-to-run-buses/story-e6freoof-1225839337936

He was just 3 years too early ...

And what a disgrace it was that Anna Blight refused.  Good thing she's gone.

QR - or, more accurately the political and senior departmental figures - have been a dead-weight on rail in Qld for 50yrs+, if you takeout the often attacked "Joh era", which actually at long last did some progressive things with rail [for its so-called other faults], it's been a poor show, under all political colours otherwise!

Again, I'm not against the possibly, indeed probability, the State should run many (not all) SEQ bus services, it's getting there with everyone, including very much the BCC on board, which is important.

Trust me, I'm no lover of the BCC per se and in fact believe to be a pretty poorly run show!

[somebody]

Like it or not rail can trump speed and time wise the current buses

Yet it doesn't in practice, except perhaps on the Indro-city corridor.

I lay much blame at the feet of QR.  They actually perform worse than Cityrail on many measures and want to keep things the way they are.

Haha Come off it. QR aren't to blame. They have had some big ideas to step forward but have been denied them or had to make do.

Oh yeah!  How can you back that up?  You mean like more concrete with no increases to services?  You come off it.

QR cost about the same per passenger as Cityrail, to carry them a lesser distance.  Any suggestion of providing a more useful service to a QR person is met with an attitude "can't do that".  Case in point is suggestions of more frequencies on the Caboolture line.  Making it too hard for freight is an excuse, and a feeble one at that.  Botched infrastructure projects cannot be blamed on politicians now can they?  I would draw your attention to the missing crossover at Coopers Plains for a start.  That's a screw up at lower level than the politicians.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Like it or not rail can trump speed and time wise the current buses

Yet it doesn't in practice, except perhaps on the Indro-city corridor.

I lay much blame at the feet of QR.  They actually perform worse than Cityrail on many measures and want to keep things the way they are.

Haha Come off it. QR aren't to blame. They have had some big ideas to step forward but have been denied them or had to make do.

Oh yeah!  How can you back that up?  You mean like more concrete with no increases to services?  You come off it.

QR cost about the same per passenger as Cityrail, to carry them a lesser distance.  Any suggestion of providing a more useful service to a QR person is met with an attitude "can't do that".  Case in point is suggestions of more frequencies on the Caboolture line.  Making it too hard for freight is an excuse, and a feeble one at that.  Botched infrastructure projects cannot be blamed on politicians now can they?  I would draw your attention to the missing crossover at Coopers Plains for a start.  That's a screw up at lower level than the politicians.

They have had some big ideas to step forward but have been denied them or had to make do.

[somebody]

How can you back that up?

They have had some big ideas to step forward but have been denied them or had to make do.

So what you are saying is that you are unable to back that up.  Repeating your unsupported assertion doesn't support it.  Big ideas aren't usually the answer.