Cleveland incident - 31 Jan 2013 IMU 173

[Otto]

Just spotted a 160/260 entering Roma Street from Central. Was just about at walking pace as the lead car entered the platform. Certainly the slowest I've ever noticed a train entering RS from the tunnel end.

Sent from my H7100 using Tapatalk 2

[somebody]

^ FWA is eminently qualified to tell the RBTU to faff off and stop harrassing people.

The RTBU should be on our list of public enemies, honestly.  They do not have the efficient development of the public transport system at their heart, believe you me.

Along with BCC.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

3rd February 2013

Cleveland Incident

Greetings,

The public is confused about the circumstances that contributed to the 'Cleveland Incident'.  Union directives to members to not drive certain train types, namely SMU 260 and IMU 160 series have been ordered to be ceased by Fair Work Australia.  We noted that some of these trains were running on the network on Saturday, 2nd February 2013.  Does this mean that the bans have been cancelled, or that some individuals have decided not to follow the union bans?

The Minister for Transport has ruled out mechanical issues, catastrophic brake failure and slippage as being causal factors in the incident.

Various media comments suggest that there has been an issue with wheel slip on occasions on the network.

This leaves the public in a state of confusion and concern.  There is obviously more information re the incident that is not being made public, otherwise how could the Minister rule out certain factors?

Has there been a modification of speed restrictions on approaches to terminal stations, particularly Brisbane Airport Domestic, Ferny Grove, and planned for Cleveland on re-opening?

There is widespread public concern and we believe it is reasonable that a proper explanation as to the circumstances and plans to guard against similar incidents in the future is clearly articulated to the public today.

Public confidence needs to be restored promptly.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Twitter  4:42 AM - 3 Feb 13

TransLink SEQ ‏@TransLinkSEQ

Cleveland line trains have resumed between Cleveland - Wellington Pt following the unplanned closure of the section.

[ozbob]

Twitter  4:42 AM - 3 Feb 13

TransLink SEQ ‏@TransLinkSEQ

Cleveland line trains have resumed between Cleveland - Wellington Pt following the unplanned closure of the section.

[ozbob]

Bayside Bulletin --> Trains back at Cleveland station

[ozbob]

Bayside Bulletin --> Trains back at Cleveland station

Updated  ... Bayside Bulletin --> Trains back at Cleveland station

[ozbob]

http://www.scottemerson.com.au/media/media-releases/258-cleveland-station-open.html

Cleveland Station open

Sunday, 03 February 2013 10:28

Rail services to Cleveland are back up and running ahead of schedule after a train hit the station building on Thursday morning.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson said Queensland Rail worked around the clock to get these repairs completed quickly.

"We appreciate the hard work of more than 100 maintenance crew, facilities crew and demolition subcontractors who have worked tirelessly to get the network back up and running," Mr Emerson said

"The first train departed Cleveland station this morning so it is back to business as usual for passengers just in time for the Monday morning peak.

"The station is completely operational except the toilets which will be repaired over the coming months."

Mr Emerson said while it is pleasing that major repairs have been completed so quickly it is important the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) is left to get on with its investigation.

"In order to determine the cause of the incident on Thursday the ATSB will provide an interim report in one month.

"I urge the union to follow the decision made by Fair Work Australia and cease any bans and allow the investigation to continue without interference."

For the latest information on public transport go to www.translink.com.au

[mufreight]

^ FWA is eminently qualified to tell the RBTU to faff off and stop harrassing people.

The RTBU should be on our list of public enemies, honestly.  They do not have the efficient development of the public transport system at their heart, believe you me.

Along with BCC.

But Fair Work Australia in in no way qualified nor does it have the expertise to make a determination as to the safety of either work practices or mechanical equipment.
One must question this as the Rail Safety Regulator and the Australian Transport Safety Bureau have both stated that it will take them three months to investigate and provide a report although the Rail Safety Regulator, which is part of the Transport and Main Roads office has said it will provide an intrim report in a month.
Who then is responsible if there is a further brake failure on one of these IMU 160 or SMU 260 series train sets in the intrim period of waiting for the "expert" report, is it the Minister, who has stated publicly that there was no mechanical failure and no catastrophic brake failure, Fair Work Australia who stated that there was no problem and directed train crew to man these train sets, the Rail Safety Regulator as part of the Transport Department under the direction of the Minister, or the Australian Transport Safety Bureau who by this time would have only commenced its investigations into the cause.
Untill such time as the cause is discovered and made public,  commuters can have little confidence in the safety of these trains or in statements made by Transport Minister Emerson.

[somebody]

I would presume the public purse would be responsible, just as if a catastrophic accident had happened without warning.

[BrizCommuter]

I first saw this in the 1970's as a kid, surely Qld has something similar?

Nope.
Just AWS, which only really protects red signals.
Thus the BrizCommuter article  in 2011 on the lack of ATP being an accident waiting to happen (and not just concerning termini).

[ozbob]

Has anyone seen 260s / 160s out on the network today?

[ozbob]

I had look for B series TransPerth having any braking issues, didn't take long to find some anecdotal observations that they do ... 

[ozbob]

The message for the public is, don't worry all is well.  WTF, how about some official explanation as to what has been done to ensure a train doesn't take off at BNE domestic? Let alone other possible serious overruns etc.

In view of the ruling out rather stridently of certain possible causes by the Minister, doesn't leave much left does it?

I understand a 3 rail / sleeper buffer has replaced the stop block.  There was a couple up on the bank at Bundamba the other day when I went past .. maybe one of those ..

[petey3801]

I assumed if the driver or train failed to respond, the braking came on.

Once again, no. There are no automatic braking systems on the QR suburban network (apart from AWS, which is a passive protection system - ie: Once the driver acknowledges the AWS, there is nothing stopping the train from passing the red signal if the driver doesn't stop the train).

The ONLY thing stopping trains at terminal platforms (including the Airport) is the DRIVER. There are policies and procedures for the driver to follow (including entry speeds etc.), but if, for some reason, the driver does not want/can not to adhere by these policies/procedures, there is NOTHING to stop the train apart from the driver. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zip. F' All. Absolutely NOTHING.

[somebody]

I assumed if the driver or train failed to respond, the braking came on.

Once again, no. There are no automatic braking systems on the QR suburban network (apart from AWS, which is a passive protection system - ie: Once the driver acknowledges the AWS, there is nothing stopping the train from passing the red signal if the driver doesn't stop the train).

The ONLY thing stopping trains at terminal platforms (including the Airport) is the DRIVER. There are policies and procedures for the driver to follow (including entry speeds etc.), but if, for some reason, the driver does not want/can not to adhere by these policies/procedures, there is NOTHING to stop the train apart from the driver. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zip. F' All. Absolutely NOTHING.

You'd have to wonder how they were allowed to build Domestic airport in the way it was, given that.

[ozbob]

Thanks Petey, that was what I understood. 

[ozbob]

Rail Express --> Melbourne rail incidents not caused by faulty brakes: Siemens

However the fitting of auto-sanders has solved the problems ... 

[ozbob]

The Cleveland incident has again demonstrated that the lack of an effective ATP system on the suburban network is a concern.  This needs to be addressed as a priority.  A few years ago there were some moves to look at an ATP system, I think work has started again on this.

There are also clearly some adhesion issues with the SMU160s and IMU160s.  This is not that unusual and probably could easily be addressed by incorporating auto-sanding equipment as was done for the Siemens trains in Melbourne.

[ozbob]

Just heard a news report on 4BH to the effect that the Minister for Transport was warning that there will be massive disruption to the public transport network if the union directive for drivers to not drive 160s and 260s is not lifted.  Also the RTBU is taking legal action to appeal against the ruling by Fair Work Australia.   Doesn't look too promising ...

[HappyTrainGuy]

Hmmm - I can see another problem with the design there.  Any train that overruns the buffer is going to hit that stanchion used to tie off the end of the overhead, so the wiring coming down on top of the train is then inevitable. If it was supported by a portal with overhead beam, then an overrun would be less likely to bring down the overhead.

In comparison, at FG at least the overhead tie-off is out to the side, so an overrun stands a chance of missing it.

EDIT: corrected amusing typo (pie-off instead of tie-off  )

Said end line stanchion can be seen under the train

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/gallery-e6frer96-1226565806943?page=16

Overhead result

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/gallery-e6frer96-1226565806943?page=19

The powerlines came down but it wasn't that dramatic. As I understand that photo was taken after crews had cut the overhead cables from the other end.

[ozbob]

Anyone seen any 260s / 160s out and about on service runs today?

[somebody]

Just heard a news report on 4BH to the effect that the Minister for Transport was warning that there will be massive disruption to the public transport network if the union directive for drivers to not drive 160s and 260s is not lifted.  Also the RTBU is taking legal action to appeal against the ruling by Fair Work Australia.   Doesn't look too promising ...

Isn't the union open to legal action if it proceeds with this ban in defiance of FWA?

[ozbob]

I would expect so, but that doesn't  mean that much ...  they are angling from the health and safety perspective ... to crew and passengers.

Plenty of form by unions of defying FWA orders ..

Honestly, an interim provisional immediate report on the Cleveland incident could be done in 24 hours.  How long does it take to read the black box recorder? 

[ozbob]

Another way of looking at the Cleveland incident is that it was a lucky break of sorts.  Only minor injuries but it has highlighted that there are real issues that need to be addressed.

I think there has been lingering issues with the 160s/260s, which have largely been unresolved or not really acted upon.  This incident may force a resolution. There must be some smoke and fire as the union is quite adamant. 

The lack of ATP has always been a concern.  Station design has also been highlighted but it is not the critical immediate issue.

No one  has reported seeing 160s or 260s today. 

I think they should be getting the Betys ready for tomorrow ...

[ozbob]

Received a report of a 160 out at BNE this afternoon, so assume others were around ...

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

4th February 2013

Re: Cleveland Incident

Greetings,

No meaningful public communication as to the real issues behind the Cleveland incident has been made available.

Will the IMU 160s and SMU 260s be turned out normally this morning for service?

A provisional report of the circumstances of the incident would be available by now.  Some public  clarification is needed in the interests of public confidence.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

3rd February 2013

Cleveland Incident

Greetings,

The public is confused about the circumstances that contributed to the 'Cleveland Incident'.  Union directives to members to not drive certain train types, namely SMU 260 and IMU 160 series have been ordered to be ceased by Fair Work Australia.  We noted that some of these trains were running on the network on Saturday, 2nd February 2013.  Does this mean that the bans have been cancelled, or that some individuals have decided not to follow the union bans?

The Minister for Transport has ruled out mechanical issues, catastrophic brake failure and slippage as being causal factors in the incident.

Various media comments suggest that there has been an issue with wheel slip on occasions on the network.

This leaves the public in a state of confusion and concern.  There is obviously more information re the incident that is not being made public, otherwise how could the Minister rule out certain factors?

Has there been a modification of speed restrictions on approaches to terminal stations, particularly Brisbane Airport Domestic, Ferny Grove, and planned for Cleveland on re-opening?

There is widespread public concern and we believe it is reasonable that a proper explanation as to the circumstances and plans to guard against similar incidents in the future is clearly articulated to the public today.

Public confidence needs to be restored promptly.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail 4th February 2013 page 3

Trains back on track



Ed:  article now online here!

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail click here!

Rail union chest-beaters pulled into line by Fair Work Australia

Rail union chest-beaters pulled into line by Fair Work Australia

    by: The Courier-Mail
    From: The Courier-Mail
    February 04, 2013 12:00AM

SOUTHEAST Queensland's train commuters have been spared weeks of disruptions by a decision made in a closed CBD building shortly before midnight on Friday.

Fair Work Australia ruled that the Rail, Tram and Bus Union had been wrong to order its members not to operate the models of train involved in a crash at Cleveland station on Thursday morning.

The union claimed an "imminent safety risk" for the two models of train, making up almost a third of the suburban fleet.

The union insisted, without a shred of evidence, that brake failure had caused the crash at Cleveland and that it wasn't the first time their members had been concerned by the performance of the trains in question.

Queensland Rail immediately asked Fair Work Australia to rule on the union's actions.

As midnight approached on Friday, the union was told that its members must continue to drive the trains while the Australian Transport Safety Bureau conducted an investigation.

It was a bad day for the Rail, Tram and Bus Union and it was a bad day for the union movement, which should not need reminding that 1970s-style behaviour no longer cuts it in the modern world.

Train driving is a stressful job requiring enormous skill and concentration.

The state's train drivers do a fine job and the overwhelming majority are hard-working, honest people who have earned the public's respect.

They should have a word with their union about its behaviour on Friday because the losers in the chest-beating were the hundreds of thousands of rail commuters.

Those people take notice when the Rail, Tram and Bus Union claims a chunk of the state's train fleet is not safe.

But they want more than words.

If the union's actions were legitimate, it would have produced a list of previous safety concerns for the train models.

No such list was produced.

Instead, the union attacked Transport Minister Scott Emerson, who had made the factual observation that there was nothing to indicate the train had suffered a mechanical fault.

The train had passed a full maintenance check on January 9 and had not suffered any reported troubles until the final metres of its journey from Doomben to Cleveland.

Mr Emerson was not ruling out a mechanical fault but said he was yet to see evidence of such.

Predictably, the union went on the attack and claimed Mr Emerson was blaming the driver.

The union thought it fine to reach a decision on the cause of the crash but resented Mr Emerson's factual observations.

Politics is built on groups pitting their needs and wants against others but democracy is moved aside when one group unfairly flexes its muscle and acts to the disadvantage of everyone else in the system.

These were the tactics of trade unionism in the 1970s when brawls between unions, business and government regularly saw industrial blackmail inconvenience the community's most vulnerable people, including unions' own members.

Union powerbrokers should show the same respect for their funds that their members show to their own money.

The Rail, Tram and Bus Union probably spent many thousands of dollars on lawyers on Friday night in the Fair Work Australia meeting.

If so, it was a waste of money.

The Rail, Tram and Bus Union should now comply with the ATSB investigation and drop any talk of an appeal to FWA. Unless, of course, it can produce evidence of safety concerns. And then all commuters will rightly take notice.

[ozbob]

From the Bayside Bulletin click here!

Train union to appeal Fair Work decision

Train union to appeal Fair Work decision Save
By Judith Kerr
Feb. 4, 2013, 10 a.m.

The union governing train drivers will lodge an appeal today against a Fair Work Australia ruling  lifting a union ban on driving two types of trains after last week's crash at Cleveland station.

Lawyers for the Rail, Tram and Bus Union will lodge the appeal against Fair Work Australia's ruling after the union had calls from a dozen train drivers this morning concerned about the safety of the two models of trains.

The models in dispute, the Class 160 and 260, were rolled out between 2007 and 2011, and account for 64 of QR's fleet of 200 trains.

Fair Work Australia, the country's workplace relations watchdog,  averted a train driver strike on Friday night after it dismissed the union's claims a catastrophic brake failure caused last week's crash.

At Friday's urgent meeting granted to Queensland Rail, Fair Work Australia found there was no evidence to support the union's claim and ruled the trains were safe and ordered the union to end its ban for two months so an investigation into the crash could take place.

Rail Tram and Bus Union state secretary Owen Doogan told Bayside Bulletin this morning drivers "reluctantly" would continue driving the two models of trains to allow the appeal to proceed. 

He said members were angry Transport Minister Scott Emerson ruled out any fault with the train therefore "inferring it was the driver's fault".

"Our view is that it is the minister's responsibility to force QR to withdraw those types of trains until they are certain that the problem with the brakes is rectified," Mr Doogan said.

"The brakes were on but they didn't work.

"The driver is stressed and was looking at a wall in front of him not knowing whether he would live and now has the minister inferring it was his fault."

Hours after the train crash, the Rail, Tram and Bus Union banned its members from driving the model of train involved in the accident, citing safety concerns and creating the potential for major disruptions this week.

[ozbob]

Updated, bit of back pedalling?

http://www.baysidebulletin.com.au/story/1277222/train-union-to-appeal-fair-work-decision/?cs=213

... A spokesman for Mr Emerson said this morning, "The Minister has made no conclusion about this incident. Fair Work Australia made their ruling in response to the Union's claims."

The Minister in various comments has indicated the train had no mechanical issues, there wasn't a catastrophic brake failure, and slippage wasn't involved ...

If the driver (who was experienced) put the brakes on and they didn't work, that is not a minor issue ....

If 12 drivers said they have had issues, it is time to sort it ..

[ozbob]

updated

Couriermail --> Driver of near-disastrous train crash at Cleveland on sick leave as union appeals Fair Work order

[Stillwater]

Mr Emerson should shut up and let the safety people get on with their job.  As usual, he is trying to score a political point, this time against the union.  The union doesn't quite come up smelling of roses either, but the Minister should not rise to the political bait.  There is a time for politicking, there is a time not to.  Mr Emerson can't tell the difference.

[ozbob]

Yes, unfortunately Mr Emerson's comments really only left the one interpretation of the cause.  It could turn out to be the case, however there is plenty of corroborating evidence from train crew that they have had issues. The RTBU are quite adamant that the driver is not at fault.  I have heard of braking issues with the units since 2007, some of the new trains were delivered with faults.

It is time that Queensland Rail actually explains what is going on, at least in terms of reassuring the public.

To be frank, I would not be surprised to see the units withdrawn for at least checks and what ever else might or might not be needed.

In fact this past weekend would have been a good time for some checks I would have thought, perhaps they did?

[ozbob]

I managed to watch Channel 10 news and Channel 7 news that both ran short news items on the RTBU appeal.

Both pointed out that if the appeal is successful, the trains (160s and 260s) could be out of action for a while.

The appeal is good as it will require both sides to present evidence, and the actual circumstances of the Cleveland incident will no doubt be examined.  It would be very clear now as to the cause, despite the long time (arbitrary) for the full investigations trotted out.

First big test for the Transport Minister, TMR and QR under the new regime.  Not well handled so far ....

[Arnz]

If the RBTU doesnt present any evidence, then the case would be thrown out quickly. 

If they still insist and go against the order, despite FWA upholding their decision, I can see a "Qantas-style" or "Sunbus-style" lockout coming.

[ozbob]

@rtt   the immediate cause of the Cleveland incident would be known by now.  This would be important evidence in the appeal as it would indicate an immediate issue or not.  The data logger will show clearly if brakes were applied or not, and when they were applied and the speed of the train on application. They have the drivers, passengers and witnesses statements. The longer term investigation, ATSB has said they can complete in less than  one month and will look at the broader circumstances as well as the actual incident of course.  I have been advised by those who know the immediate cause would be known in less than 48 hours.

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail click here!

Union demand Queensland Rail release brake failure reports following near-disastrous Cleveland train crash

Union demand Queensland Rail release brake failure reports following near-disastrous Cleveland train crash

    by: Robyn Ironside
    From: The Courier-Mail
    February 05, 2013 12:00AM

QUEENSLAND Rail is refusing to bow to union pressure to withdraw 64 trains from service despite claims drivers have logged numerous issues with those models.

Owen Doogan from the Rail Tram and Bus Union yesterday demanded Queensland Rail release reports made by drivers of instances in which the electronic brakes had failed and a back-up system was used to stop trains.

It followed last Thursday's near-disastrous crash at Cleveland station, in which the union claims both sets of brakes failed despite the driver's best efforts.

Transport Minister Scott Emerson has refused to speculate on the cause, but said the RTBU's allegation of "systemic brake failure" had been ruled out.

Mr Doogan said the union knew of at least five occasions where reports had been logged about brake issues, and there were statements from members saying as much.

"We have a lot of members that are telling us they have made these complaints," Mr Doogan said.

"Our solicitors have written to QR seeking access to that material."

He said until the cause was known, Queensland Rail should act in the best interests of its employees and the public and withdraw the trains from service.

"If this was an aeroplane we would be very surprised if they hadn't been grounded around the world very quickly," he said.

"There's just as many or more passengers in those trains as there are in an aeroplane and the passengers' interests should come first."

The RTBU has decided to appeal against a Fair Work Australia order that drivers continue to operate the trains in question, after the union advised them not to last Friday.

Mr Doogan said the union was confident of winning the appeal, which would result in some disruption to train services. "We believe there is an imminent risk to our members when driving these types of trains," he said.

The driver involved in Thursday's crash has taken sick leave and remained "very stressed" about the incident, Mr Doogan said.

A spokeswoman yesterday said Queensland Rail stood by its comments last week that there was no evidence of brake failure, and commuters could be assured of the safety of trains.

The State Government has asked the Australian Transport Safety Bureau to conduct an accelerated one-month investigation.

The QR spokeswoman said an investigation into another train crash at the Banyo level crossing last September was continuing and would be completed in March.

The fact that comments such as ' no evidence of brake failure ' and the fact that the operator has not withdrawn the trains clearly indicates they know the immediate cause.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

5th February 2013

Re: Cleveland Incident

Greetings,

The public continues to be confused about the circumstances that contributed to the 'Cleveland Incident'.  Union directives to members to not drive certain train types, namely SMU 260 and IMU 160 series have been ordered to be ceased by Fair Work Australia.

The Minister for Transport has ruled out mechanical issues, catastrophic brake failure and slippage as being causal factors in the incident.  The immediate cause of the incident therefore must be known, otherwise the operator would have withdrawn the trains?

Various media comments suggest that there has been an issue with wheel slip on occasions on the network.

This leaves the public in a state of confusion and concern.  There is obviously more information re the incident that is not being made public, otherwise how could the Minister rule out certain factors?

Has there been a modification of speed restrictions on approaches to terminal stations, particularly Brisbane Airport Domestic, Ferny Grove, and planned for Cleveland on re-opening?

The Queensland Rail suburban network does not have a proper Automatic Train Protection system, something which needs to be addressed in the longer term as well.

There is widespread public concern and we believe it is reasonable that a proper explanation as to the circumstances and plans to guard against similar incidents in the future is clearly articulated to the public today.

Public confidence needs to be restored promptly.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Brian Hurst, Editor Bayside Bulletin said in a regular weekly segment on 612 ABC Brisbane Radio this morning ' that the trains are now slower entering the station {Cleveland} ' ....