Cleveland incident - 31 Jan 2013 IMU 173

[somebody]

I don't know why people think that electric trains need 1 in 80 grades or whatever the current number is.  Cityrail's underpowered stock run up the 1:30 from Wynyard to the bridge, no problems.  Even the red rattlers managed that with only 1/4 axles powered.  More powerful stock, more powered axles and you should be able to do far far better.

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/the-accident-waiting-to-happen-has.html
The accident waiting to happen has happened!
Very lucky no one was in the gents!!


Surprised that no one has picked up on a train with toilets running on the Cleveland Line!

[colinw]

I'm just thankful this didn't happen at Domestic Airport, although the buffer design there does appear to have this kind of incident in mind.

[ozbob]

The buffer stop at Cleveland was sturdy too from memory. 

Apart from BNE domestic, Springfield Central is going to be up in the air, at least that is not constrained by offices etc across the line but still off the deck.  They will need to review BNE domestic and Springfield Central particularly ... might need to have an expanded safety zone past the buffers ...

Ferny Grove ...  well we all tried to get them to see commonsense but what would members of the public know?

[colinw]

Aha! Labor designed it. Blame the ALP!

I know that is a tongue in cheek comment, however it should be pointed out that the Cleveland (re-)opened in 1987 while the National Party was in Government and Sir Johannes Bjelke-Petersen was the Premier of Queensland.

Regarding Ferny Grove, apart from the distant possibility of rebuilding the Samford bit (which Gazza rightly points out is a bit foamy), the new design is a similar hazard to Cleveland. I am also irritated that they gave up the long shunting neck beyond FG, and the possibility of having some limited stabling there.

But this QLD.  Everything here is either half baked when it needed to be more functional, or over engineered when it didn't need to be.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I love the reporting standards and their sourced information. The amount of times I have heard "rubber stopper" is getting beyond annoying. JUST SAY BUFFER! Cudos to channel 9 for the over dramatic reconstruction video.

[colinw]

Rubber stopper?   

[ozbob]

Pic from last year, don't think it has changed.

BNE domestic



Photograph R Dow 11 September 2012

[ozbob]

Cleveland

Pic from 2008, on the great free Easter Tour of Network  don't think the buffer stop has changed. 

See where the 'rubber stop' has come from ...



Photograph  R Dow 21st  March 2008

[ozbob]

 

back on track, as they say ..

==================

http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/details/1359620365

CBD train network disruptions

Last updated: 6.19pm Thursday 31 January 2013

Central, Fortitude Valley and Bowen Hills stations will close again from 10pm until the last train service this evening (Thursday 31 January), to allow crews to continue repairing the tracks and overhead power lines at Fortitude Valley that were damaged by the weekend's severe weather.

Where possible, trains will be operating as close to timetables as possible; however, customers should expect delays.

As per the arrangements last night, trains will operate between Albion and Roma Street stations via the Exhibition Loop.

Rail replacement bus services will operate all stations between Roma Street and Albion stations. Please note there will be no train shuttle service between Roma Street and Central stations.

Buses will continue to operate between Roma Street and Mitchelton stations to connect with train shuttle services operating between Mitchelton and Ferny Grove stations.

[HappyTrainGuy]

  living on the edge ...   , and less school kids in this carriage  LOL

The new definition of someone living for the moment is going to the mens toilet as the Cleveland train approaches Platform 1 (or is it 2).  I can feel the rush now  ......nah, actually urine flowing into the dunny!

YOLO!

Also, did anyone else here the great intro by channel 9? "...when a peak hour commuter train carrying 13 people crashed".

[ozbob]

Ferny Grove as it was October 2012





Photographs R Dow 10th October 2012

[colinw]

Cleveland

Pic from 2008, on the great free Easter Tour of Network  don't think the buffer stop has changed. 

See where the 'rubber stop' has come from ...



Photograph  R Dow 21st  March 2008

Hmmm - I can see another problem with the design there.  Any train that overruns the buffer is going to hit that stanchion used to tie off the end of the overhead, so the wiring coming down on top of the train is then inevitable. If it was supported by a portal with overhead beam, then an overrun would be less likely to bring down the overhead.

In comparison, at FG at least the overhead tie-off is out to the side, so an overrun stands a chance of missing it.

EDIT: corrected amusing typo (pie-off instead of tie-off  )

[red dragin]

Munich's buffers look like the way to go.



Scissor like and can run into the platform. I remember seeing them and thinking they could stop a 40km/hr train real well! Station approach speeds where very slow from a long way out.

[ozbob]

Channel 7 News --> Train smashes into station

[HappyTrainGuy]

See where the 'rubber stop' has come from ...

It's actually a hard plastic cone to minimise damage from the elements. Nothing rubber about it

[petey3801]

and include speed reduction sensors similar to airport line.

Say wha?

The only thing slowing the trains down at the Airport is the same thing that slows them down anywhere else in the suburban system - The Driver.

[ozbob]

Couriermail -->  QR to investigate why train slammed into Cleveland station

Brisbanetimes --> Leaves may be behind train crash: driver

[ozbob]

Bayside Bulletin --> Train lifted out of Cleveland station

Good slide show ...

[ozbob]

Southern Cross Station Melbourne


http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6096/6239663187_7f9b79976b_z.jpg

[ozbob]

From the Bayside Bulletin click here!

QR says it's too early to speculate on crash

QR says it's too early to speculate on crash

Queensland Rail says it is too early to speculate on what caused a passenger train to overrun the platform and crash into Cleveland station this morning.

Queensland Rail acting chief executive Jim Benstead said an inquiry, expected to take three months, was under way and he hoped train services would resume at Cleveland station early next week.   

He said he did not know why the train was running 10minutes late before crashing and said it had been inspected about three weeks ago.

He also said he had no knowledge about earlier trains skidding along the track and failing to come to a stop at Wellington Point and Ormiston stations.

At a press conference this afternoon, Mr Benstead moved to ensure train users all QR trains were safe.

"The investigation will take into consideration communications between the train crew and drivers and our control centre and take into consideration witness statements," he said.

"I'm not going to get into any speculation on what might be the cause ... if I had any concern on the safety of our rolling stock, naturally they would not be in service."

Mr Benstead said the investigation would also address threatening phone calls to the station on Wednesday and claims by transport lobby group Rail Back on Track that Cleveland station buildings were in an "unsafe" location.

The accident occurred at about 9.40am, when the 7.55am Doomben to Cleveland train passed the end of the track and hit the station building injuring 14 people.

Queensland Ambulance Service assessed 19 people, including 13 customers on the train, the driver and guard, and staff and customers in the station building at the time.

Emergency services left the scene just before 3pm and 10 people were treated at Redland Hospital but there were no serious injuries.                                                               

Queensland Rail is keeping the Rail Safety Regulator fully informed on its investigation into the crash and will use CCTV, the train's "black box" and other reports.

A QR spokesman said there was no indication, "at this early stage of systemic issues with this model of train".

Services are suspended between Cleveland and Wellington Point, and eight buses are being used to transport customers to these stations.

Cleveland MP Mark Robinson said he would speak with Transport minister Scott Emerson about the repair job "so the station can be back to full capacity as soon as possible".

Mr Emerson said more than 300m of overhead power lines have been damaged, resulting in disruptions to commuters.

"This is a busy station with more than 1200 passengers using it each day so while we are unable to use the station buses will replace trains between Cleveland and Wellington Point," Mr Emerson said.

"We urge all passengers who use this line to allow extra time when travelling and to expect delays of up to 30 minutes."

Passengers should check the TransLink website at www.translink.com.au or phone 13 12 30 to get the latest update.

[ozbob]

Short interview on Breakfast with Spencer Howson 612 ABC Brisbane this morning on these matters ...

Also 4KQ News conducted a short interview.

Thanks for the interest ...

[ozbob]

612 ABC Queensland

http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2013/02/cleveland-train-crash-should-buildings-be-located-at-the-end-of-the-tracks.html?site=brisbane&program=612_breakfast

Cleveland train crash - should buildings be located at the end of the tracks

01 February 2013 , 9:17 AM by Spencer Howson

Yesterday, a building at Cleveland Station, built at the end of the tracks, was destroyed by a train that was unable to stop - thankfully no one was seriously injured.

The new Ferny Grove Station (another terminus) also has its new station building in the same position and Robert Dow from Rail on Track this morning has been actively voicing his disapproval of this practice.

But first, Redland Times and Bayside Bulletin editor Brian Hurst describes the scene earlier this morning, when the first carriage was lifted by crane out of the station building:

Download audio

[ozbob]

http://www.scottemerson.com.au/media/media-releases/253-federal-safety-bureau-to-investigate-train-crash.html

Federal safety bureau to investigate train crash

Friday, 01 February 2013 13:39

Australia's leading transport safety investigators will provide a preliminary report within a month into the train crash at Cleveland station yesterday.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson said the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) would be called in to provide an overview of what occurred prior to the crash.

"I'm concerned that a full investigation will take more than three-months, so I've ordered an interim report within one month," Mr Emerson said.

"The ATSB is a Federal investigatory body and it is appropriate they review this matter and deliver their interim findings to passengers and the State Government.

"The ATSB will also provide a full report and recommendations to the government at a later date.

"At this stage it is too early to speculate on a cause, however I want to ensure we get the best advice on this incident in timely manner."

Queensland Rail advised the train carriages involved received their last full inspection on January 9 and no issues were reported at other stations during the trip from Doomben prior to this incident.

Mr Emerson said the repair process has already begun, with the train being removed to allow investigations to begin.

Work is also underway to repair damage to the Cleveland station, the track and up to 300 metres of overhead line.

[ozbob]

Siemens trains in Melbourne had problems with overshoots, particularly in wet or dry/dusty conditions.  There were speed restricted at certain locations on the network for these trains and for a while contributed to very poor OTP.

Eventually auto sanders were fitted, this resolved the issues and speed restrictions lifted.  One of the theories was that the relative light weight of Siemens trains was a factor, however this seems to be a furphy.  These trains weigh 120.8 tonnes ( 3 car set total, tare). Queensland  IMU/SMU new series weigh 128.2 tonnes tare for a 3 car set.  Conversely Xtrapolis trains are around 121 tonnes, Comeng 150 tonnes, Hitachi 123 tonnes  (3 car sets).

Queensland EMU 118 tonnes (3 car).

Problems with the Siemens trains seems to more of a design issue, that was resolved by incorporating auto sand gear ...

I have heard of reports of overshoots particularly with 260s before the Cleveland incident with the IMU.  I would expect that the braking systems on both trains are similar though as weights are the same.  Anyone know if the new series SMU/IMU have a worse track record with overshoots than the EMUs?

[Derwan]

Train union tells drivers not to operate type of train involved in Cleveland crash, sparking delays

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qr-to-investigate-why-train-slammed-into-cleveland-station/story-e6freoof-1226566307403

DELAYS on Brisbane train lines are expected from as early as Friday afternoon after train drivers were directed by their union not to operate the type of train involved in yesterday's derailment.

Rail Tram and Bus Union secretary Owen Doogan has just advised members not to operate the trains, saying there was an imminent safety risk.

The trains are Type 160 and Type 260, and share the same braking system.

They make up 64 trains out of the fleet of 200.

It is expected to cause ongoing delays into next week.

[minbrisbane]

The first time I ever experienced a train overshoot was in a 260 series.  Never had an.issue before.

[ozbob]

This will make the network timetable unmanageable, although I am not surprised sadly that there is a ban of sorts  ..

earlier ...

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/leaves-may-be-behind-train-crash-driver-20130131-2dnsa.html

One driver who wished to remain anonymous said he was forced to apply his emergency brakes on his regular route on Thursday morning – and he said he was not the only one.

The crashed train was lifted from Cleveland station in the early hours of Friday morning.

The driver, who was working on a different rail line, said he was finding it difficult to brake at stations, experiencing what he called "slip and slide".

"It's just like in a car where you are skidding on water," he said.

"When I got to one station I actually had to put on the emergency brakes to actually stop the train at the platform, because the slip sliding was causing me to go past where I was supposed to stop at the platform.

"Slip slide itself is a fairly common occurrence for trains, but the degree of slip slide I got [Thursday] morning was quite unusual."

The front carriage of the train that crashed into Cleveland station was lifted out of the station building at 2.30am Friday and taken on a low loader to the Wacol railway workshops.

All six carriages of the train involved in the incident at Cleveland station yesterday were removed by 4.30am.

A crowd of about 50 people watched the operation which started in the early afternoon.

The front of the train looked relatively intact apart from a smashed windscreen and damage to the lower bumper section.

The driver with concerns over braking said standard procedure during such conditions was to brake earlier.

He said another train crew experienced a similar issue on Wednesday and also had to apply the emergency brake.

But he said employees did not believe it was systemic problem with the trains or tracks.

"Talking to other crews, their opinion was with the heavy rain from the last few days and all the leaf litter on the track, including eucalyptus leaves because of the storms, when the train goes over the leaves on the rails, it is actually pulping the leaves, making oil, and causing the trains to slip," he said.

"They did send a locomotive to put sand on one of the tracks to help get some grip.

"It's just like they do in snow. They put a grip down so you don't slip."

However, the driver maintained train travel was safe.

"We have a service to do and a lot of work goes in to making that service safe and reliable," he said ...

[ozbob]

...
"They did send a locomotive to put sand on one of the tracks to help get some grip.
...

If true, amazing, it is virtually saying we know there is an issue.  Might be time for auto-sanders ...

[BrizCommuter]

Train union tells drivers not to operate type of train involved in Cleveland crash, sparking delays

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qr-to-investigate-why-train-slammed-into-cleveland-station/story-e6freoof-1226566307403

DELAYS on Brisbane train lines are expected from as early as Friday afternoon after train drivers were directed by their union not to operate the type of train involved in yesterday's derailment.

Rail Tram and Bus Union secretary Owen Doogan has just advised members not to operate the trains, saying there was an imminent safety risk.

The trains are Type 160 and Type 260, and share the same braking system.

They make up 64 trains out of the fleet of 200.

It is expected to cause ongoing delays into next week.

How about the unions inform drivers to drive more cautiously if they have just experienced an overrun?
Haven't ever seen the unions campaigning for ATP or safer terminus designs?
(Where's the troll emoticon?)

[Derwan]

I commented on the BT story, which suggested wet weather and/or leaves might have contributed:

"Platform overrun is common in wet weather, but for stations like Cleveland there are speed restrictions on the approach to prevent this from happening. Something must have gone seriously wrong on the approach for the train to overrun the platform."

I don't think the typical wet weather issues have anything to do with the Cleveland accident.  If the wet weather had anything to do with it, I'd say it was water somehow getting into the mechanism and preventing the brakes from working at all.  (I have no idea whether that's even possible.)

Surely there must've been other incidents for the union to now blanket ban the 260 and 160 trains altogether - or is this their way of backing the driver and saying "it must be a problem with the train"?

It was a six-car train - which means the brakes must've failed on both sets - unless the brakes of a single set weren't sufficient to slow the entire train.  If the latter is the case, it could've been either set that had a brake failure - and not necessarily 174.

Edit:  Typo

[ozbob]

In the Couriermail article there is this  ...

Mr Emerson says the train underwent a full inspection on January 9.

"This train had been fully inspected just a matter of weeks ago," he told reporters on Friday.

"There was a routine inspection earlier that day.

"There's no evidence, no indication that there was anything wrong with the train at all, and there were no reports from the driver on the journey from Doomben to Cleveland of any problems with the train."

It was also not the first train on that line that day.

Mr Emerson declined to comment on the actions of the train driver and said he did not want to pre-empt findings.

He also ruled out that it was a slippage.

"Slippages occur often in the system when there's water on the line," Mr Emerson said.

"That occurs probably every week on a train system ... but that has no connection to what happened in Cleveland."

The ATSB's probe is expected to be much quicker than Queensland's emergency services investigation.

Instead of three months, the ATSB will release interim findings within a month, Mr Emerson said ...

It may well be an outright braking system failure, rather than a slippage .. however the comments from Mr Emerson are in opposition.  No slippage, no evidence that anything was wrong with the train.

Draw your own conclusions ...

[ozbob]

Here we go ..

=================

http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/details/1359704000

Delays to afternoon peak trains

Last updated: 5.33pm Friday 1 February 2013

Customers may experience minor delays across the train network during this afternoon's peak following unscheduled disruptions or cancellations.

Customers should use the journey planner to seek alternative services.

[Derwan]

How about the unions inform drivers to drive more cautiously if they have just experienced an overrun?
Haven't ever seen the unions campaigning for ATP or safer terminus designs?

No - they'd rather grandstand and disrupt the general public with their bully-boy tactics.

[ozbob]

Updated ..  from http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qr-to-investigate-why-train-slammed-into-cleveland-station/story-e6freoof-1226566307403

plot thickens ...

AS investigations suggest the Cleveland train crash was not caused by a mechanical fault, the union tells drivers not to operate that type of train.

Rail Tram and Bus Union secretary Owen Doogan has advised members not to operate the trains, saying there was an imminent safety risk.

The trains are Type 160 and Type 260, and share the same braking system.

They make up 64 trains out of the fleet of 200.

It is expected to cause ongoing delays into next week.

A spokeswoman for Transport Minister Scott Emerson said there were no reports of disruptions for peak-hour services this afternoon.

But Queensland Rail was working through plans to manage any impacts this afternoon and into next week.

Mr Doogan said the union had discussions with Queensland Rail today and taken into consideration what it had to say.

But he said it had also listened to what members and the driver involved in yesterday's crash had to say about the safety of the trains.

"On the evidence we have to date we consider there are fundamental safety issues with the Class 160 and Class 260 trains.

"We will therefore be advising our members not to accept instructions to operate those trains at the present time on the basis there is a concern that there could be a workplace health and safety issue which poses imminent risk to their own personal safety and the safety of the travelling public."

According to an email from Queensland Rail general manager Paul Coleman provided to the union, both of the units had "comprehensive safety inspections in January 2013 that included tests on the braking system" and "no faults were found."

Queensland Rail is currently working on a plan to respond to any delays for peak-hour travellers

[ozbob]

Updated ...  http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qr-to-investigate-why-train-slammed-into-cleveland-station/story-e6freoof-1226566307403

AS investigations suggest the Cleveland train crash was not caused by a mechanical fault, the union tells drivers not to operate that type of train.

Rail Tram and Bus Union secretary Owen Doogan has advised members not to operate the trains, saying there was an imminent safety risk.

The trains are Type 160 and Type 260, and share the same braking system.

They make up 64 trains out of the fleet of 200.

Queensland Rail has advised that three services this afternoon are experiencing disruptions as a result of the union directive.

But it says it does not expect disruptions over the weekend, with existing stock able to fill any gaps in the schedule.

Queensland Rail was working through plans to manage any impacts this afternoon and into next week.

Mr Doogan said the union had discussions with Queensland Rail today and taken into consideration what it had to say.

But he said it had also listened to what members and the driver involved in yesterday's crash had to say about the safety of the trains.

"On the evidence we have to date we consider there are fundamental safety issues with the Class 160 and Class 260 trains.

"We will therefore be advising our members not to accept instructions to operate those trains at the present time on the basis there is a concern that there could be a workplace health and safety issue which poses imminent risk to their own personal safety and the safety of the travelling public."

Not slippage, not mechanical failure, driver applied both brakes, looking like a software/electronic failure ... water in the electronic gear?  Outright component failure??

[ozbob]

Look on the bright side, might be a triumphant return of steam haul pass on the Ippy  ...



only joking ...   

[HappyTrainGuy]

Not slippage, not mechanical failure, driver applied both brakes, looking like a software/electronic failure ... water in the electronic gear?  Outright component failure??

What about driver error. Not the first time that has happened. Japan is certainly fimilar with it (the train that ended up in a underground car park a few years back). Could also have been a part time driver. They certainly have racked up the incidents in the past. Best just to wait for the report before jumping to conclusions.

[ozbob]

Yes, but it has been said that the driver did apply both braking systems ... could have been late I guess, but the union and Queensland Rail responses and the careful words of the Minister suggest there is an issue ...

No one is jumping to conclusions, nothing wrong with considering the options. 

[HappyTrainGuy]

You can apply both brakes and still run out of room