Why you should never stay in any big European city

[johnnigh]

Just back from 2 months in Berlin, with side trips to Stockholm, Vienna, Munich, Dresden & Leipzig, then 2 nights in Singapore.
Readjusting to Aussie public transport and car culture is just about enough to dump you into deep despondency.

2 months of 2 minute waits for S-bahn & U-bahn, and feeling terribly hard-done-by when a tram might not come for 10 minutes.

Signalised intersections where the green man (or woman at one intersection in Dresden) stays green for nearly a minute instead of 10 seconds.

Stations where all the platforms are level with train floor.

Singapore, where all platforms have barrier doors to prevent accident and suicide attempts.

In the weeks before Xmas I saw exactly no congested roads, whether local or arterial, in Berlin.

What was notable about Berlin's extensive S and U system was that not only frequency but connection was key to its working. Most stations connected to other lines, including bus, regional & long-distance rail. The system continues to be extended with new lines under construction for at least S-bahn and regional rail. Automated on board announcements told passengers which lines the next station connected with. Changing train/bus/tram line is normal to complete a journey within the city, let alone beyond.

Certainly Berlin isn't like any of our cities, but are our planners not open to learning anything from the rest of the world?

[ozbob]

Welcome back John!  Sounds simply marvellous ...

[somebody]

but are our planners not open to learning anything from the rest of the world?

Before you jump on the planners, consider that the planners are answerable to the politicians, and the politicians reflect the values of society.

[SurfRail]

I think we have some top-notch urban and transit planners in this country.  Sadly they seem to do their best work elsewhere!

[Stillwater]

A far outer suburbs railway line:

[cartoonbirdhaus]

And if anyone says "If you don't like it, LEAVE!", they need to know that a lot of us would if we were able to!

All the jingoistic gloating by knuckle-dragging pinheads, who just sit back and take being fodder for exploitation at every turn, is doing nothing to stop this country turning into more and more of a Third World toilet.

[cartoonbirdhaus]

Just remember, we can have all this if we get the entire population of greater brisbane and squash into a city the size of the BCC ... without more than 100km between cities of greater than 1m people.

A better comparison would be Canada. And public transport in their major cities, and its market share, are way ahead of what's tolerated here.

Although my only experience with transport in a civilised city has been a one-day stopover in Incheon (South Korea), being able to travel safely in the 11 o'clock hour on a Wednesday night, not waiting more than 8 minutes* for trains you could set your watch by, was something to behold.

*Except A'Rex after 10 pm, when it dropped to a 20-minute frequency. Since upgraded to 12-minute frequency at that time of night.

[cartoonbirdhaus]

Are people (Australian railway operators) ready for DMU shuttles on minor lines to stations closer to the CBD than Chatswood or Corinda and transfer to sparks is normal for all services

What sort of frequencies do they run at?

Are people ... ready for interurban trains that are loco hauled (spark and DEL) where the engine remains at same end of train regardless of direction

In other words, a push-pull arrangement. What are the advantages over EMUs? Not a rhetorical question: I'm curious about the technical pluses and minuses of either.

Are people ... ready for remote control shunting of trains (ie no driver on board)

That would cut labour costs, that's for sure.

Are people ... ready to accept that pedestrian LX at stations to access platforms is perfectly normal (and in other countries as well)

"Oh, noes, sumwunn mite SUE!!11!1!!!" What, should we just let the insurance industry run everything in this country? Adelaide's Salisbury station has an at-grade pedestrian crossing, but Down trains often cross over to the Up platform for easier rail/bus interchange, so I don't know if it counts, really.

Just some of the ways I noticed the Europe seems to run trains and build infrastructure at lower cost to Australia. But suggest even one of these in some forums and you'd be burnt alive.

If I remember correctly, the per-km cost of new metro line construction in Germany and Spain is something like €50 million? Compared to A$465 million for the 1 km extension of the Eastern Busway!

[johnnigh]

Welcome back John!  Sounds simply marvellous ...

Thanks Bob, it was great. Most of it in Berlin, an apartment in Neukölln, a 'gentrifying' area of the old west, 300m from S and U station. With the help of maps and the Deutsche Bahn iPad app, we could get anywhere in Berlin and Potsdam by the quickest route, never more than 3 changes. We were also two stops on the S-Bahn from Sud Kreuz regional and longdistance trains (much easier than Berlin Hbf) to get to anywhere accessible by train. Access to the two airports was either S-Bahn 15 minutes on the S45 to Schönefeld or 45 minutes on the U7 to Tegel, no changes to either, apart from 5 min shuttle bus from U7 Jacob-Kaiser Platz. 

I think comments about Australian city's density are overly pessimistic. Paul Mees work suggests it's a bit of an excuse.

[Jonno]

Welcome back John!  Sounds simply marvellous ...

Thanks Bob, it was great. Most of it in Berlin, an apartment in Neukölln, a 'gentrifying' area of the old west, 300m from S and U station. With the help of maps and the Deutsche Bahn iPad app, we could get anywhere in Berlin and Potsdam by the quickest route, never more than 3 changes. We were also two stops on the S-Bahn from Sud Kreuz regional and longdistance trains (much easier than Berlin Hbf) to get to anywhere accessible by train. Access to the two airports was either S-Bahn 15 minutes on the S45 to Schönefeld or 45 minutes on the U7 to Tegel, no changes to either, apart from 5 min shuttle bus from U7 Jacob-Kaiser Platz. 

I think comments about Australian city's density are overly pessimistic. Paul Mees work suggests it's a bit of an excuse.

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