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Offline ozbob

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Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« on: January 24, 2013, 03:28:39 AM »
From the Couriermail click here!

Public transport fare evaders costing Queensland $25 million a year

Quote
Public transport fare evaders costing Queensland $25 million a year

    by: Robyn Ironside
    From: The Courier-Mail
    January 24, 2013 12:00AM

MORE than 50,000 people were caught trying to get a free ride on trains over the past three years.

Statistics released exclusively to The Courier-Mail by Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson show 51,795 punters were busted free-riding.

Mr Emerson said the practice cost $25 million a year in lost revenue, with up to 6 per cent of passengers travelling without a valid ticket or go card.

The figure is up from past estimates of a loss of $18 million annually, due to increases in patronage and fare hikes.

A total of 161 people are employed to target fare evaders and maintain the security of the public transport network, including security guards, transit officers, senior network officers and the Railway Police Squad.

Roma Street proved to be the most lucrative hunting ground for the large network of law enforcement officers, with nearly 2000 people nabbed in three years.

Park Road was the second-worst spot for fare evaders, with 1677 tickets issued, followed by Bowen Hills (1403), Northgate (1323) and Fortitude Valley (1322).

In previous years, fare gates had been installed at busy stations to try to crack down on fare evaders with some success.

But Robert Dow, from commuter advocacy group Back on Track, said it was not unusual for fare gates to be left open and unsupervised at outer stations, such as Varsity Lakes and Ferny Grove.

"People just waltz through," Mr Dow said.

"I've also observed that I'm one of the few people actually touching off on train stations where fare gates aren't installed.

"I think fare evasion is a significant issue."

He said the latest increase in fares would almost certainly lead to a hike in fare evaders.

"I really think, because of the high cost of fares in southeast Queensland, there is a perception public transport is not value for money and there's a temptation to fare evade," Mr Dow said.

"We certainly don't encourage people to fare evade, but we would urge people to get a go card and not rely on paper tickets, which are significantly more costly."

Mr Emerson said security staff, including police and transit officers, would conduct several blitzes on the train network in coming weeks.

"They will be targeting fare evasion and any nuisance behaviour," the minister said.

"I won't be revealing where or when but I won't tolerate bad behaviour on public transport, particularly as we move toward full capacity in February and March."

Go cards were originally touted as the answer to fare evasion, when they were introduced by the previous government in 2007.

Mr Dow said it was now clear that was not the case.

"It was recently revealed to me that 3000 go cards a day are being sold in southeast Queensland, which to me suggests some fraudulent activity may be occurring.'

The government's fare evasion taskforce catches 50 offenders a day on the southeast Queensland Citytrain network.

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Offline ozbob

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2013, 03:32:38 AM »
I think $25 million dollars is conservative, probably more than that ...
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2013, 03:35:10 AM »
This observation/suggestion by Petey3801 may be needed to be considered ...

Quote
I think the way the Dutch have their smart card system going is pretty good.

Unregistered cards (which can be purchased at most ticket machines) must have at least €20 credit on them before they will tag on. Once credit falls below this amount, you will not be able to tag on again until the balance on the card is over €20 again. You can still tag off if your trip causes the balance on the card to fall below €20.

Registered cards have a lower limit (€10 I think it is), but same conditions apply as above when credit is below this amount.

This is fairly simple and effective, as it completely stops the rort of throwing away the card when it is in the negative. Just make the minimum balance something like $25 or so and it should be right. Much more than that and people will complain about there being too much stored money on there that they can't use, too much less and it opens the rort up to more and more people.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2013, 05:57:43 AM »
Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Scott Emerson

Fare evasion crackdown

Public transport transit officers and rail police will be cracking down on fare evasion and nuisance behaviour in the coming weeks.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson said anyone caught not paying the correct fare risked a $200 on the spot fine.

“Security staff, including police and transit officers, will be conducting a number of blitzes on the train network over the coming weeks,” Mr Emerson said.

“They will be targeting fare evasion and any nuisance behaviour.

“I won’t be revealing where or when but we won’t tolerate bad behaviour on public transport – particularly as we move toward full capacity in February and March.

“Passengers should also expect to see station staff spending more time on platforms assisting passengers with information, go cards and boarding trains.”

Over the past three years more than 50,000 fines have been issued for fare evasion across south east Queensland.

Despite the number of fines, fare evasion is estimated to cost honest public transport users $25 million a year in lost revenue.

The top 10 stations where fines have been issued are Roma St (1915), Park Rd (1677), Bowen Hills (1403), Northgate (1323), Fortitude Valley (1322), Petrie (1290), Altandi (1235), Beenleigh (1141), Strathpine (1022) and Central (952)
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2013, 09:21:44 AM »
So petey's suggestion is basically having 4 deposit levels instead of 2. Currently it's $5 for concessions and $10 for adults, basically double each of those for an unregistered card?
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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2013, 10:39:40 AM »
While they are at it, how about fixing the Government mandated fare evasion after 9 journeys in a week.

somebody

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2013, 12:17:07 PM »
So petey's suggestion is basically having 4 deposit levels instead of 2. Currently it's $5 for concessions and $10 for adults, basically double each of those for an unregistered card?
No, from 3 Dec 2009 the deposit on the Adult Go Card dropped to $5.  This coincided with the start of them selling 1.5 million go cards over 18 months.  Perhaps it's a coincidence.  ::)

While they are at it, how about fixing the Government mandated fare evasion after 9 journeys in a week.
Agree with that.

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2013, 01:50:10 PM »
Huh. Yeah ok, $5 for everyone is stupidly low.
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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2013, 01:57:55 PM »
I think the deposit is $2.50 concession.

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2013, 02:09:00 PM »
I think the deposit is $2.50 concession.
Doesn't seem to be: https://gocard.translink.com.au/webtix/tickets-and-fares/go-card/online/buy/step-one
Down the bottom is just says $5 deposit and $5 starting balance, doesn't matter which type of go card you go for.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2013, 02:52:17 PM »
Did a quick check today of ticketing observations Ipswich and Goodna.

Ipswich rail is being operated properly, gates closed and staff supervision in place.

However, on my return journey from Ipswich to Goodna, I was the only one who touched off at my end of the platform (around 10 pax or so) .. lol

Oh dear ...
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Offline Mozz

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2013, 02:57:28 PM »
 :-w

Offline ozbob

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2013, 03:02:28 PM »
From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Southeast's top 10 stations for fare evasion fines

Quote
Southeast's top 10 stations for fare evasion fines
January 24, 2013 - 9:36AM Marissa Calligeros

Roma Street, Park Road and Bowen Hills train stations are southeast Queensland's most lucrative for ticket inspectors who are issuing fines to up to 50 fare evaders each day.

Nearly 2000 fines have been handed to fare dodgers at Roma Street station in the past three years, new figures show.

Inspectors have issued 1677 fines at Park Road station and 1403 at Bowen Hills over the same period.

More than 50,000 fines have been issued across southeast Queensland for fare evasion in three years but the problem is still costing taxpayers $25 million a year in lost revenue, according to the government.
Advertisement

The figures have been released ahead of a government-initiated blitz on fare evasion, with Transport Minister Scott Emerson issuing a hard-line directive to ticket inspectors and rail police.

"Security staff, including police and transit officers, will be conducting a number of blitzes on the train network over the coming weeks,” Mr Emerson said.

“They will be targeting fare evasion and any nuisance behaviour.

“I won't be revealing where or when but we won't tolerate bad behaviour on public transport, particularly as we move towards full capacity in February and March."

Fare evaders risked a $200 on-the-spot fine, Mr Emerson said.

Robert Dow, of commuter lobby group Rail Back on Track, said excessive fare increases were likely to encourage more fare evaders.

"Public transport fare unaffordability is the major public transport issue facing the state government," Mr Dow said.

"The public feedback is overwhelming - there is gross dissatisfaction with the failing fare system."

Fare evading at southeast Queensland train stations:

    Roma St (1915 fines),
    Park Rd (1677 fines),
    Bowen Hills (1403 fines),
    Northgate (1323 fines),
    Fortitude Valley (1322 fines),
    Petrie (1290 fines),
    Altandi (1235 fines),
    Beenleigh (1141 fines),
    Strathpine (1022 fines), and
    Central (952 fines)

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/southeasts-top-10-stations-for-fare-evasion-fines-20130124-2d8ca.html
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somebody

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2013, 03:30:47 PM »
Interesting that gated stations are in the top 10.  I guess that's just because so many people are using those stations.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2013, 03:34:41 PM »
Interesting that gated stations are in the top 10.  I guess that's just because so many people are using those stations.

Yes, reflects patronage in part I think, Roma St is where the TOs are based and they are always hanging around there most times I have passed through lately, so a bit skewed in that sense.  More people pass through Central than Roma St ...
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Offline Fares_Fair

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2013, 03:45:25 PM »
I see quite a few get on and off along the Caboolture/Sunshine Coast line, who don't appear to touch on or off.
Many go just 1 or 2 stops.

It's been at least 3 months since I have seen the TO's on the trains I catch.
Maybe that means most of us are good.
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Offline HappyTrainGuy

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2013, 06:49:12 PM »
The ones that I truly feel sad for are those that get on and flat out admit when caught that they didn't buy one/swipe on because its become too expensive. There's one woman that I see every once in a while that goes a few stations getting on and off the train. In the morning she has one work shirt on taking her kid to school and other times when I'm about to get off the train she's getting back on wearing a different uniform (Only made the connection after working overtime and seeing her in two different work outfits going two seperate directions in one day). I've never really seen her touch on/off by herself but everytime she's had the kid with her she always made sure that the child touches on and off and then she does. Its still fare evasion none the less but its just sad to see that our PT network is at that point for some people that only travel a short distance. There should be a full fare review along with the concession restrictions. Shift the cost on to those going long distances. Get rid of the silly then free loop holes. It won't stop fare evasion but it would make inways into it.
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Offline petey3801

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2013, 08:47:15 PM »
So petey's suggestion is basically having 4 deposit levels instead of 2. Currently it's $5 for concessions and $10 for adults, basically double each of those for an unregistered card?

Partially, yes. But it's not just a deposit, it's a minimum credit level. So while the credit is able to fall below this mark during a journey/trip, the person is unable to successfully tag on for another trip until after the balance of the card is above the threshold (say, $20 for unregistered cards, $10 for registered, or something along those lines). This creates an incentive to register the card, and hopefully means most people would be less willing to let the card go into negative value and throw it away. It would also limit the amount of peopel able to do the $10 journey from the Coast to the Airport and throw away the card thing, as the minimum credit would be set higher (the first up min could be $20 + $5 deposit for unregistered and when the card is registered the $5 deposit is credited to the account?).

It might add a bit of complexity, but it would save a lot of money IMO.
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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2013, 09:13:21 PM »
So petey's suggestion is basically having 4 deposit levels instead of 2. Currently it's $5 for concessions and $10 for adults, basically double each of those for an unregistered card?

Partially, yes. But it's not just a deposit, it's a minimum credit level. So while the credit is able to fall below this mark during a journey/trip, the person is unable to successfully tag on for another trip until after the balance of the card is above the threshold (say, $20 for unregistered cards, $10 for registered, or something along those lines). This creates an incentive to register the card, and hopefully means most people would be less willing to let the card go into negative value and throw it away. It would also limit the amount of peopel able to do the $10 journey from the Coast to the Airport and throw away the card thing, as the minimum credit would be set higher (the first up min could be $20 + $5 deposit for unregistered and when the card is registered the $5 deposit is credited to the account?).

It might add a bit of complexity, but it would save a lot of money IMO.
I like the ability to touch on with 1c credit with go card.  Better than other systems which require a minimum balance.  Really, it's the same system, just explained differently, but the Qld way is easier/better.

Offline nikko

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2013, 09:43:19 PM »
Interesting that gated stations are in the top 10.  I guess that's just because so many people are using those stations.

Yes, reflects patronage in part I think, Roma St is where the TOs are based and they are always hanging around there most times I have passed through lately, so a bit skewed in that sense.  More people pass through Central than Roma St ...

Definitely.

Figures for Park Road, Bowen Hills and Northgate are also artificially (although the interception location doesn't necessarily make a difference) higher due to high-visibility operations usually being conducted at those stations.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2013, 09:52:46 AM »
From the Gold Coast Bulletin click here!

Blitz to target train fare evaders

Quote
Blitz to target train fare evaders

Matthew Killoran   |  12:01am January 25, 2013

PUBLIC transport cops will soon start cracking down on train fare evaders on the Gold Coast, slapping anyone caught without a ticket with a $200 fine.

The warning from the State Government came as it revealed Helensvale Rail Station as the city's worst spot for commuters being sprung without tickets.

More than than 350 people were fined at the station for the offence since 2010.

Almost 1100 people have been fined at Gold Coast train stations since January 2010, compared with 50,000 across all of southeast Queensland.

But public transport advocates warn fare evasion will only become more common as ticket prices continue to skyrocket.

Transport Minister Scott Emerson said Gold Coast train commuters were mostly honest.

"Gold Coast passengers are overall well behaved, however we are keen to reduce the impact of fare evasion on honest users right across the network," Mr Emerson said.

"Security staff, including police and transit officers, will be conducting a number of blitzes on the train network over the coming weeks."

Rail Back On Track Gold Coast spokesman Steven Jamieson said by browbeating the public the government would just anger commuters already frustrated with the rising cost of tickets.

"There are people prepared to bank on evading fares rather than paying the cost of a ticket," he said.

"The main reason for that is the fares are becoming extortionate."

Public transport fares went up 7.5 per cent earlier this month, but had been planned by the previous State Government to rise 15 per cent.

After Helensvale, Coomera Station had the highest number of fare evaders with 225 fines handed out.

There were only 37 fines handed out at Varsity Lakes Station since 2010, the least amount on the Coast.

A blog comment on the article:

Quote
"What a joke. Imagine how many people they would catch if they actually policed this. I travel on the train daily to Brisbane and have been doing so for 2 years. In that time I have only had my Go Card checked twice. Yet I see so many people not swiping their go cards and just walking through. This issue is massive and QR needs to crack down on this. Its not fair that I pay my fees, yet others just get away with it. "
Nedly
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Offline Cam

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2013, 02:29:52 PM »
However, on my return journey from Ipswich to Goodna, I was the only one who touched off at my end of the platform (around 10 pax or so) .. lol
Oh dear ...

When there are inspectors at the bottom of the stairs at Goodna, you will notice passengers change their decision to alight. This probably occurs at many stations where you can see inspectors before you alight. I seen numerous passengers re-board the train at Goodna when they see the inspectors after they have alighted.

When inspectors board a train, you often see passengers alight or move to the next carriage & alight at the next station. It appears to be a game for some.

The serious way to catch those fare evading is to have non-uniformed inspectors sit separately at both ends of a carriage. They can then stand up, show their badges & ask for tickets just after the train has departed a station. Nowhere to run or hide for those who haven't paid or touched on.

The non-uniformed approach would also reduce antisocial behaviour on trains as well. How many times have you seen antisocial behaviour stop when uniformed inspectors are in the carriage only to flare up again when inspectors move to the next carriage or alight?

Offline HappyTrainGuy

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2013, 05:41:41 PM »
Already happens mate  ;)
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Offline Gazza

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2013, 06:42:00 PM »
Once I arrived at my destination and had to disembark the train when a ticket inspection had just started. I felt like a criminal even though I wasn't.

Offline Mozz

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2013, 07:57:40 PM »
Caught the 5.10am from oxley to central on the way to airport today. Around 40 people on the platform. I was at east end of platform, 5 people walked onto platform to catch train, only one used gocard, none of the others walked to ticket machine...none in qr type attire or police type attire...

Offline Fares_Fair

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2013, 09:30:04 PM »
Already happens mate  ;)

I've never seen it, on my trains, in 12 years.
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Offline Gazza

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2013, 09:35:34 PM »
^I don't think the Sunshine Coast line would be a big target for ticket checks though.

Offline Arnz

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2013, 09:38:35 PM »
Sunshine Plaza, Noosa Junction/Noosa Head bus stations and Caloundra Bus Stations however see Transit Officers every now and again (I see them around those interchanges more frequently than the trains).
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Offline Fares_Fair

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2013, 10:31:36 PM »
^I don't think the Sunshine Coast line would be a big target for ticket checks though.

They say we are around 1000 pax per day, but how many 'extras' are there, who aren't picked up on the ticket checking radar?
I would suggest it is significant.
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Offline Arnz

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2013, 11:17:01 PM »
1000 peak pax a day* 

Off-peak in both directions would number at least a couple of hundred* per day spread out across fewer trains (including Gympie North but excluding railbuses).

*Estimate off observations only.  Gympie North inbound to Brisbane on Sundays alone (for example) are at full seated capacity when leaving Nambour (220+ seats on 5 carriage ICE).
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2013, 03:15:54 AM »
From the Queensland Times click here!

Fare evasion rife, but not all caught

Quote
Fare evasion rife, but not all caught
26th Jan 2013 1:00 AM

 THOUSANDS of fines for fare evasion on the Ipswich train line are among the total 50,000 fines issued across the entire south-east Queensland public transport network over the past three years.

More than 7.5% of the 50,000 fines were issued at stations between Ipswich and Darra, according to figures revealed by Transport and Mains Roads Minister Scott Emerson.

The worst performing Ipswich line stations were Ipswich, Goodna, Darra and Redbank.

Mr Emerson estimated fare evasion cost $25 million each year in lost revenue.

The Ipswich line figures were not as great as the 1915 fines issued at Roma St, but Rail Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow put the difference down to the Brisbane focus of transit officers.

"The figures are distorted because the transit officers are based in Brisbane and have more of a focus there," Mr Dow said.

Mr Dow called for increased patrols on the "middle to outer regions of the network", to discourage fare evaders and reduce the so-called skew .

"I hopped off at Goodna station and I was the only one of a dozen people to touch off my Go Card and I doubt everyone else had paper tickets," he said.

"If there are more patrols I think people will start to realise they're not going to get away with it."

Mr Dow said the removal of paper tickets and the supervision of fare gates would also help.

"Paper tickets cause a weak point at fare gates because a gate needs to be kept open."

 Fare Evasion Hotspots

    Ipswich: 642
    Goodna: 497
    Darra: 479
    Redbank: 457
    Wacol: 375
    Gailes: 238
    Riverview: 231
    Dinmore: 190
    Booval: 177
    Bundamba: 169

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Offline ozbob

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2013, 03:50:45 AM »
Sent to all outlets:

26th January 2013

Fare evasion

Greetings,

TransLink has said fare evasion costs (their estimates) now at least $25 million per year, up from $18 million.  This is a 39% increase.

At a time when paid patronage is actually falling due to unaffordability of the present fares in SEQ, it is no real surprise is it?

There are some fundamental weaknesses in the ticketing system.  The reluctance to remove paper tickets (they were to be removed in 2010) only means the system will remain "open" and attempts to control fare evasion difficult.  There is little point in having fare gates on the system if gate discipline is not going to be enforced.

I have observed many situations on the rail network where very few passengers are actually touching off at times.  It beggars belief to think that these people are all using high cost single paper tickets ...

The present fare structure which allows free travel after 9 paid journeys has been referred to by some as " ... Government mandated fare evasion after 9 journeys in a week "  ( http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=9539.msg118009#msg118009 ) this is a massive cost as well.

Fare evasion on the network is also common on the bus network.

Fare evasion is worsening, partly because of the inherent weaknesses in the ticket system,  but also because of public resistance to the unaffordability of fares.  In short, it is time for a fare review.

Our petition calling for a fare review, continues to receive widespread support.  http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fare-review-for-translink-south-east-queensland-now.html

Time for action, further delay is inexcusable.

Best wishes
Robert

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Offline ozbob

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2013, 10:51:25 AM »
Report from an 'observer' at Bundamba the other day (during the day)

Watched carefully as pax detrained, around 3 in 30 actually touched off ... guess those who didn't must have had paper singles  <--- :pfy:
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Offline Gazza

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2013, 02:11:41 PM »
^I don't think the Sunshine Coast line would be a big target for ticket checks though.

They say we are around 1000 pax per day, but how many 'extras' are there, who aren't picked up on the ticket checking radar?
I would suggest it is significant.

In peak hour revenue is protected by the fact city stations are gated.

Offline Stillwater

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2013, 02:41:33 PM »
Next time I can organise a free day, I am going to 'observe' Nambour station ticket gates/entry.

I suspect I will encounter similar observations to Bundamba.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2013, 03:08:53 PM »
Many people have freely admitted rorting the system to reach the journey cap ....  comments perfectly valid ...
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2013, 03:10:13 PM »
Death spiral continues. It just feeds off itself.

South Bank, Park Road and Bowen Hills should be installed with fare gates.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2013, 03:12:32 PM »
^I don't think the Sunshine Coast line would be a big target for ticket checks though.

They say we are around 1000 pax per day, but how many 'extras' are there, who aren't picked up on the ticket checking radar?
I would suggest it is significant.

In peak hour revenue is protected by the fact city stations are gated.

Interesting that the gated stations have some of the highest infringement rates?  But as discussed previously that is partly due numbers and concentrations of TOs/SNOs.  However during the last 6 months I have been contacted a number of times by people complaining they have observed fare evasion occurring at the Central gates. In some cases it is very obvious, others not so.  I have no intention of detailing how it is done, however I think most can reason out how they try.  I think staff/TO/SNO are getting sharper at picking these up, but the problem is they are not always around. My last few trips through Central, Edward St gates have not been attended.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2013, 03:24:04 PM »
Rorting is rorting.  You have your view, others disagree. 
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Fare evasion - articles discussion ...
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2013, 03:28:09 PM »

While they are at it, how about fixing the Government mandated fare evasion after 9 journeys in a week.
Agree with that.
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