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Ipswich region

Started by rattler, January 15, 2013, 12:45:50 PM

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rattler

I have seen on some real estate websites (advertising property in Redbank Plains) that a train station is planned for Redbank Plains in the near future.  I have googled this and all I could come up with was a news article from 2011 (http://www.qt.com.au/news/push-to-bring-rail-to-redbank-plains/931136/) saying that "Queensland mayors have "called on a plan to build a rail line between Springfield and Redbank Plains to be brought forward as a way of easing road congestion in booming population pockets."  Everything I found on Qld government websites indicated that the train line was only planned to go to Springfield. 

Can anyone advise about whether there is a commitment to extend the line to Redbank Plains and if so when it is scheduled for completion?

ozbob

Welcome Rattler.  There is a longer term plan to extend the rail line from Springfield to Ipswich via the Ripley Valley.  I am afraid that creative journalism does get this a bit mixed up on occasions.  The final route is not really confirmed, there could be a chance that the line could be closer to Redbank Plains than Springfield is at the moment, but if they just follow the road transport corridor, which would mean the line would be no closer to Redbank Plains than Springfield is at the moment. See http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Projects/I/Ipswich%20to%20Springfield%20Public%20Transport%20Corridor%20Study/Pdf_ipswich_springfield_eis_4_background.pdf


http://www.ipswich.qld.gov.au/documents/planning/rv_vol2_chap9_sequencing.pdf

QuoteThe Ripley Valley Structure Plan includes major infrastructure
proposals that are not currently in SEQIPP that will have a bearing on both the Valley and
growth in the Western Corridor. These include the extension of a high-speed transit
corridor (rail) from Ipswich to Ripley and ultimately Ripley to Springfield, and the expansion
of the South West Transport Corridor from 2 to 6 lanes. Both require major subterranean
corridors through the Urban Core to ensure world class transit orientated traditional
neighbourhood design outcomes.
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ozbob

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rattler

Quote from: ozbob on January 15, 2013, 12:59:59 PM
I am afraid that creative journalism does get this a bit mixed up on occasions.  The final route is not really confirmed, there could be a chance that the line could be closer to Redbank Plains than Springfield is at the moment, but if they just follow the road transport corridor, which would mean the line would be no closer to Redbank Plains than Springfield is at the moment.

Thanks Bob - I was suspecting the journalism was a bit creative - not to mention the claims by the real estate agents.  I figured railway lines are major infrastructure and it wouldn't be so hard to find info if there was really a commitment to provide a station at Redbank Plains. 


colinw

Re-open the Redbank to Bundamba Loop Line!   :hg :mu:  (Bob, we need a foam emoticon).

ozbob

Bit of a map here --> http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/I/Ipswich-to-Springfield-Public-Transport-Corridor-Study.aspx



The red line is the 2A option, although a bit hard to read ..  next train will be stopping at Redbank Plains ..  :D

Still not certain though as I understand it ..
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colinw

I'd have thought any sensible rail corridor beyond Springfield would have run well north of the highway (i.e. closer to Redbank Plains), due to the difficult terrain the Centenary Hwy extension traverses.  There are some long steep sections on that road once you get beyond Springfield, no way you could build a railway parallel to it without massive earthworks or even tunnels.

ozbob

Ipswich City Council has been looking at Bus Rapid Transit as well.

The preferred rail corridor does have a station at Redbank Plains but it is really a bit south of Redbank Plains.
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SurfRail

The western station in the Redbank Plains area is very well-sited for the developments planned there.  Not so sure of the eastern one, but it really is as close as it can feasibly get without knocking through homes.

I don't know if any real consideration has been given to stabling out there.  I suspect it may be necessary to have some provided west of Springfield.
Ride the G:

ozbob

Quote from: SurfRail on January 15, 2013, 13:45:53 PM
The western station in the Redbank Plains area is very well-sited for the developments planned there.  Not so sure of the eastern one, but it really is as close as it can feasibly get without knocking through homes.

I don't know if any real consideration has been given to stabling out there.  I suspect it may be necessary to have some provided west of Springfield.

Wulkuraka  was part of the longer term stabling plan at one stage, but not sure if Wulkuraka will go ahead. 
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somebody

I imagine the major stabling location for Springfield trains will be Mayne.

Clapham would be better, but there are no plans for that yet.

colinw

Must confess I'm ambivalent about Clapham stabling.  Operationally very nice, and the site will be well connected to all lines, but it is also a potentially valuable TOD side that is not too far from the city.  Hmmm - anyone ever put apartments on top of a stabling yard?

somebody

Quote from: colinw on January 15, 2013, 13:59:15 PM
Must confess I'm ambivalent about Clapham stabling.  Operationally very nice, and the site will be well connected to all lines, but it is also a potentially valuable TOD side that is not too far from the city.  Hmmm - anyone ever put apartments on top of a stabling yard?
Interesting comment.  A bigger fleet will have to be put somewhere, and I suppose ramped up Redbank + ramped up Robina + Yandina + Wulkuraka could be options.

The area around there isn't exactly ideal for residential.  A lot of industry.  Isn't there still rail use of the area for freight of some description?

I suppose the Hornsby sheds aren't exactly far from the houses, but that's Sydney and this is Brisbane.

colinw

Quote from: Simon on January 15, 2013, 14:12:03 PM
The area around there isn't exactly ideal for residential.  A lot of industry.  Isn't there still rail use of the area for freight of some description?

Not sure about use as an actual freight yard, but often seems to be occupied by lots of 'departmental' stuff, e.g. ballast wagons, rail trains, etc.   I've also seen cattle trains to Holmview held in Clapham on occasion. Possibly it also gets some overflow from Acacia Ridge of Moolabin, but have seen the odd rake of container flats stored there for a day or two.

The sidings into Weston milling went some years ago, everything to the west of the dual gauge 'through road' (which forms one half of a loop on the DG line) has now been ripped up.

SurfRail

Is Clapham floodprone?  If not in and of itself, it would certainly have a potential for being cut off very easily.
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somebody

Quote from: SurfRail on January 15, 2013, 14:52:58 PM
Is Clapham floodprone? 
I'd say so.  It's quite a bit lower lying than Goodna which went under in 2011.  Don't remember if this part of the railway went under or not?

Jonno

Quote from: colinw on January 15, 2013, 13:59:15 PM
Must confess I'm ambivalent about Clapham stabling.  Operationally very nice, and the site will be well connected to all lines, but it is also a potentially valuable TOD side that is not too far from the city.  Hmmm - anyone ever put apartments on top of a stabling yard?


Not a stabling yard but Melbourne is building over the rail lines next to CBD.  In theory "Why Not?"  Minimal pollution/nosie as they are electric units.  Secure! Mixed-use! Jobs close to transport!

ozbob

No, Brisbane property increases in value near railway ...

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane home buyers on the right track
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SurfRail

Any perception of lower value is probably a function of lower amenit,y because the railways often go through industrial or rural areas on a much more noticeable basis here than some other cities.
Ride the G:

BrizCommuter

Quote from: colinw on January 15, 2013, 13:59:15 PM
  Hmmm - anyone ever put apartments on top of a stabling yard?
Nearly every depot in Hong Kong!

HappyTrainGuy

Clapham flooded in sections. Mayne is sort of is in a flood zone but its difficult to flood due to the land being elevated. No part during 2011 did any of the railway yards flood. Can't say the same for business on the other side. There is Kippa Ring stabling and a few other locations like Banyo (not sure if all are public but theres something like 3-4 locations on reserved land). Mayne also has additional capacity for stabling with the old freight yards in the north. Currently used as a mtce machine stabling/turn back facility/track storage.

colinw

Quote from: BrizCommuter on January 15, 2013, 17:49:37 PM
Quote from: colinw on January 15, 2013, 13:59:15 PM
  Hmmm - anyone ever put apartments on top of a stabling yard?
Nearly every depot in Hong Kong!

The reason I bring it up is because I see a huge lost opportunity in such a big parcel of land just being devoted to a "low value" activity like storing trains.  Why not have our cake & eat it - secure storage for the trains, with mixed commercial/residential development above.  Would do wonders for patronage from Moorooka, given that it currently has a lopsided catchment with residential development only on one side.

HappyTrainGuy

Quote from: colinw on January 15, 2013, 20:59:07 PM
Quote from: BrizCommuter on January 15, 2013, 17:49:37 PM
Quote from: colinw on January 15, 2013, 13:59:15 PM
  Hmmm - anyone ever put apartments on top of a stabling yard?
Nearly every depot in Hong Kong!

The reason I bring it up is because I see a huge lost opportunity in such a big parcel of land just being devoted to a "low value" activity like storing trains.  Why not have our cake & eat it - secure storage for the trains, with mixed commercial/residential development above.  Would do wonders for patronage from Moorooka, given that it currently has a lopsided catchment with residential development only on one side.

Building restrictions and town planning might come into play depending on the area. If you use Clapham/Marooka as an example given that the area flooded from the north and the south during the floods there might not be a huge amount of developers wanting to risk or go through the extended process of building there. Then comes the phisical size of the area/distance over the yard. Its a good idea but maybe one that would only work under the right circumstances here. That's not saying that it can't be done.

colinw

Given the long term use of the area as a rail yard, it is quite possible there are some major soil contamination issues as well.  Roma St required quite a lot of remedial work before it was usable.

ozbob

From the Queensland Times click here!

Second railway line for city a long-term aim


RAIL ROUTE: The preferred railway corridor was identified by the Ipswich to Springfield Public Transport Corridor Study in 2007. Contributed

QuoteSecond railway line for city a long-term aim
Geoff Egan 16th Jan 2013 1:00 AM

THE Springfield railway station will be completed this year and there are more plans to increase railway networks in Ipswich.

The railway connection between Springfield and Ipswich is a key focus of the Department of Transport and Main Roads' long-term plans.

A preferred route for the railway line, including proposed stations at UQ, Churchill, Yamanto, Ripley and Redbank Plains, has been identified and protected by the State Government.

A Transport and Main Roads (TMR) spokesman confirmed to the QT the route was still a department priority.

"Transport and Main Roads has identified a preferred route for a rail connection between Ipswich and Springfield and is currently protecting the corridor," he said.

"It is still a part of our long-term plans.

"TMR planning considered environmental factors and feedback from an extensive community consultation process."

The preferred railway corridor was identified by the Ipswich to Springfield Public Transport Corridor Study in 2007 and then approved by the transport minister in 2009.

A map of the route was designed in 2007 and reviewed by TMR as recently as August according to the department's website.

Rail Back On Track spokesman Robert Dow said while no dates had been set for the project yet, he appreciated the long-term planning.

"It's a longer-term aim, but this is the way it has to be done from now on," he said. "We can't afford to not be building railway lines."

Mr Dow said Rail Back On Track had pushed for the Springfield line to be extended to Redbank Plains as soon as possible to service the fast-growing suburb.

Ipswich Mayor Paul Pisasale said he would talk about the line with Transport Minister Craig Emerson this week.

"(The Springfield) line is the start of a rail line into the Western Corridor," he said. "In the next stage it should connect to Redbank Plains as well as Ripley as high-growth areas, as well as our aerospace area, the university and our CBD. That (connecting) loop is what's needed."

Cr Pisasale said he was pleased the land had been put aside for a railway corridor.

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colinw

I do not understand how the eventual loop to Ipswich is going to get from Yamanto to Ipswich via Churchill.  A quick look at a map shows that there is nothing in the way of a reserved corridor, and what little remains of the old Dugandan branch corridor is far from suitable as it was mostly along the side of roads, and quite steeply graded & tightly curved in places.

ozbob

Colin this is the route description ..  they reckon they can do it ..

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Projects/I/Ipswich%20to%20Springfield%20Public%20Transport%20Corridor%20Study/Pdf_ipswich_springfield_eis_exec_summary.pdf

QuoteStart of corridor – University station
At its start, the preferred corridor joins up with the existing rail corridor in West Ipswich. This
area is very constrained and the first 250 m is 20 m wide – the narrowest part of the entire
corridor. It then follows a 290 m radius curve, before crossing Brisbane Street
perpendicularly, and then running parallel to Keogh Street towards the Sandy Gallop Golf
Club and the proposed station, at chainages 1.70 km – 1.90 km.
Vertically, the preferred corridor starts off on shallow fill in the constrained 20 m wide area,
moves onto structure around the large radius curve and crosses over Brisbane Street. It then
varies between fill, cut and structure along Keogh Street right up to University station. The
width varies along this section between 20 m, 50 m, 30 m (on structure) and 40 m. The
maximum height of the structure in this section is approximately 17 m.
University station – Berry Street
From University station the preferred corridor initially travels in a south-westerly direction
before turning south as it crosses Deebing Creek and Lobb Street, and then running adjacent
to the Bremer River towards Berry Street station (between chainages 4.15 km and 4.35 km).
This station is situated to the west of the existing residential development in this area.
The corridor runs on embankment from the southern end of University station up to
approximately chainage 2.32 km where it transfers onto structure for approximately 1.7 km as
it crosses over Deebing Creek and Lobb Street. It then changes back to an embankment just
before the station at Berry Street. The corridor is 40 m wide at the start of University station,
30 m on structure and 50 m at Berry Street station.
Berry Street – Yamanto
The preferred corridor continues south from Berry Street to Yamanto running parallel to Hall
Street up to the proposed Yamanto station located between chainages 5.90 km and 6.10 km.
For most part the corridor is located on embankment in this section. There are however short
sections of cut/fill and constrained cut, as well as structures over Berry Street, Belar Street
and Warwick Road.
Corridor widths along this section are typically 50 m, apart from the sections on structure
which are 30 m wide. The preferred corridor width at Yamanto station is restricted to 30 m.

Yamanto – Deebing South
From Yamanto station the corridor continues in a southerly direction as it crosses the
Cunningham Highway towards the SWTC. Between the Cunningham Highway and Deebing
South station (which is located between chainages 8.90 km and 9.10 km), no allowance was
made in the SWTC for a public transport corridor. As a result, there are land requirements
outside the SWTC in this area.
The preferred corridor runs deeper into cut from Yamanto station to cross beneath the
Cunningham Highway. It stays mostly in cut from hereon and resurfaces around chainage
7.80 km to run on embankment for approximately 700 m before passing into the cut again.
The corridor then crosses underneath the proposed South Deebing Creek interchange and
resurfaces at Deebing south station. The station itself is also located on the cut-fill line.
Immediately after the Yamanto station, the preferred corridor starts off at a width of 40 m and
it widens to 85 m just south of the Cunningham Highway. This then drops down to 60 m for a
short section before changing back to the standard corridor width of 50 m for most of the
remainder. Deebing South station is located within a 40 m corridor.
Deebing South – Ripley North
The preferred corridor continues further eastwards within the boundaries of the SWTC before
diverging to Ripley North station (11.20 km to 11.40 km), which is situated to the south of the
SWTC.
From Deebing South station, the corridor transitions into structure for approximately 800 m.
This is followed by a short stretch of embankment, before another section of structure
enables the corridor to cross over Deebing Creek. From here on the corridor varies between
cut and embankment. It finally dips below the natural ground all the way up to Ripley North
station. The corridor is depressed through Ripley in accordance with the Ripley Valley Master
Plan.
The corridor widths vary between 40 m, 50 m and 60 m apart from the sections located on
structure where the width is 30 m. Ripley North station is located within a 40 m corridor.
Ripley North – Ripley Town Centre
From Ripley North, the preferred corridor starts to make its way back towards the SWTC as it
slowly turns in a south-easterly direction before turning east as it enters the station that will
service the future Ripley Town Centre. This station is located between chainages 13.10 km
and 13.30 km.
The entire section along here is located in cut, except for a short stretch on shallow fill
between chainages 12.33 km and 12.45 km.
The corridor is 40 m wide for the entire length between the stations at Ripley North and
Ripley Town Centre.
Ripley Town Centre – Swanbank
The preferred corridor continues on an easterly path as it enters back into the SWTC at
approximately chainage 13.95 km on its way to Swanbank station which is located between
14.95 km and 15.15 km.

The corridor continues in cut until it surfaces near Bundamba Creek. From here, it runs along
a short section on embankment and then crosses over Bundamba Creek on structure. Shortly
after this structure, the corridor dips into cut all the way up to Swanbank station, which is also
located in cut for the majority of its length.
Swanbank – School Road
From Swanbank, the corridor starts off adjacent to the SWTC and then diverges in a slight
north-easterly direction on the way to the station at School Road, at chainages 19.45 km to
19.65 km.
The preferred corridor starts off on a shallow embankment at Swanbank which quickly
becomes higher. After a short section of structure the corridor moves onto another short
section of shallow fill again, before a section of constrained cut at the Steel Mill interchange.
The remainder of this section of the preferred corridor then varies between cut and fill, it also
passes beneath Cumner Road and the Swanbank interchange in deep cuttings. The corridor
crosses School Road on a short section of structure just before the station.
Corridor widths between Swanbank and School road vary greatly. It starts off at 40 m wide,
some parts then conform to the standard 50 m width for cut/fill, however widths of 120 m
(deep cut at the Cumner Road crossing), 80 m, 100 m (deep cut at Swanbank interchange)
and 70 m are also to be found along here. A corridor width of 30 m applies for the two
sections on structure.
School Road – Keidges Road
The preferred corridor changes back to a general easterly direction as it continues on to
Keidges Road station which lies between chainages 21.10 km and 21.30 km.
This section varies between cut and fill, however the most part of it runs through a deep
cutting. Keidges Road station is located partly on fill and partly on structure.
The 70 m wide corridor is carried through from School Road station for another 400 m before
it widens out to 95 m for the deep cutting. This then drops down to 60 m approximately 200 m
before Keidges Road station.
Keidges Road – End
Continuing from Keidges Road, the preferred corridor passes in a south-easterly direction as
it enters the SWTC again on its way to the Springfield Town Centre. The corridor is consistent
with the rail alignment proposed by the Horizon Alliance around the Springfield Town Centre
station.
The preferred corridor starts off on fill at Keidges Road station and moves onto structure as it
crosses over Keidges Road and Woogaroo Creek. This is followed by varying sections of cut
and fill as well as two more sections of structure, before the preferred corridor dips below the
natural ground and crosses of the SWTC in a cut-and-cover tunnel.
Corridor widths are 30 m on structure along here and vary between 50 m and 80 m for other
sections.
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colinw

Thanks ozbob.  From West Ipswich that basically follows the former branch line alignment until Lobb St, then it deviates somewhat to the west ofthe original line to run via Berry St & Hall St.  In comparison the original line followed Lobb St to Warwick rd, then ran adjacent to Warwick Rd, remaining open as far as the Churchill  (Warwick Rd & Saleyards Rd) until the 1990s.  The branch line corridor beyond Churchill is lost, and looking at the map the chosen corridor is about the only way you could get the line out of Ipswich.

I have a photo somewhere of an ARHS tour train at Churchill in about 1993. Brisbane Exhibition day tour of freight only Ipswich branch lines, hauled by a DH.

ozbob

Quote from: colinw on January 16, 2013, 20:16:21 PM

I have a photo somewhere of an ARHS tour train at Churchill in about 1993. Brisbane Exhibition day tour of freight only Ipswich branch lines, hauled by a DH.

I was on it too!  I have some photographs somewhere as well.   8)
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HappyTrainGuy

Quote from: ozbob on January 15, 2013, 13:53:04 PM
Quote from: SurfRail on January 15, 2013, 13:45:53 PM
The western station in the Redbank Plains area is very well-sited for the developments planned there.  Not so sure of the eastern one, but it really is as close as it can feasibly get without knocking through homes.

I don't know if any real consideration has been given to stabling out there.  I suspect it may be necessary to have some provided west of Springfield.

Wulkuraka  was part of the longer term stabling plan at one stage, but not sure if Wulkuraka will go ahead.

Missed this earlier. It was supposed or planned to have a stabling area but that changed to a bigger mtce facility only. I presume they will still have a small amount of stabling but they would be reserved for units about to have mtce undertaken on them and not for revenue traffic.

ozbob

Here you go Colin ... On the Churchill Branch





Ebenezer Branch





Photographs R Dow 1993
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colinw

#31
 :-t  Thanks ozbob.

The Churchill branch left quite an impression on me, particularly the bit where it basically ran along the side of the road in front of people's houses.  I can see why they need to deviate from the old corridor after Lobb St - can you imagine an EMU tooling along there!

I think the location of that trestle bridge is on the proposed new line, although it will probably cross at a somewhat higher level.  From memory the old bridge across Deebing Creek was a bit of  a "momentum grade" with quite steeply graded approaches on either side (could be thinking of somewhere else 'though).

I think I know where the negatives of my 1990s ARHS trips are, just need to scan them.  The Hi-8 video from those trips will be harder to deal with..

Getting somewhat back on topic, the line beyond Springfield seems a natural to me for staged delivery keeping the current "alliance" team intact.  Redbank plains fairly soon (2-3 years), then Ripley in 5-6 as a precondition for the development there, then finally Ripley - Yamanto - Churchill - Ipswich in around 10-12 years.  Whole line delivered by about 2025 at the latest.

It still seems a bit surreal to me that any of the old Dugandan/Churchill branch is proposed for resurrection as an electric suburban line.

ozbob

Hey, be a plus for some.  "This value house has round the clock close up views of modern electric trains ... "

"Close to railway line .. "  like literally ... LOL

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HappyTrainGuy

Quote from: ozbob on January 17, 2013, 13:08:32 PM
"This value house has round the clock close up views of modern electric trains ... "
"Close to railway line .. "



It's close to the railway line they said. I'd have good views of the electric trains they said.

:hg

colinw

#34
Didn't the front of an EMU end up in someone's backyard up Shorncliffe way back in the 1990s (or even late 1980s)?  I remember something in the paper at the time.  It was an early morning empty transfer, nobody hurt.

HappyTrainGuy

Sure it was an EMU? To get there it would have went through a fence, across a road and up a slight hill into their yard. If it followed the tracks it would of went through the buffer, crossed a road and into the river. That's after the speedlimit on approach before the LX and local shunt speeds. I don't recall that happening but in 1988 a runaway did end up going through a few yards up north.




colinw

#36
Ouch!

Fairly sure it was an EMU, and thinking back on it possibly not as far north as Shorncliffe - maybe Deagon?

I have a clear memory of the paper running a photo of an EMU sitting in someone's yard half under a mango tree, but the rest of the details are vague. My recollection of it is hazy, but I think it was an early morning empty transfer to Shorncliffe, there was a suspicion that someone had put an obstruction on the track (concrete manhole cover or similar), and the train derailed and pushed through a fence at relatively low speed, coming to rest in a yard backing onto the line.  It would have been in the first 2-3 years I lived in Brisbane, so 1989-1992 or thereabouts.

ozbob

Might help in driving better counter peak services ..

========

Queensland Times --> City's icon is on cloud nine
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ozbob

Be nice if they moved some TransLink staff to 'Icon Ipswich' ... might get some improvement in the counter peak ...

Queensland Times --> 750 public servants set for forced Icon move
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ozbob

From the Queensland Times click here!

Catch a train to Icon... there's plenty of seats

QuoteCatch a train to Icon... there's plenty of seats
Kieran Banks 9th Mar 2013 7:56 AM

IPSWICH Mayor Paul Pisasale has urged Icon Ipswich-bound public servants to use public transport to ease concerns of a parking crisis in the city centre.

Cr Pisasale said public servants should use the Bell St public transport hub, as Translink

figures revealed they would not be short of a seat on Ipswich train services during the morning peak period.

A Translink spokeswoman said that before 9am, seven services head towards Ipswich with capacity for 4000 passengers - but only 56 commuters end their journey at Ipswich station.

Icon Ipswich will house 1200 public servants, with 750 of those expected to be relocated from Brisbane in October.

Government figures indicate only 8.6% of Ipswich commuters use public transport.

The spokeswoman said no additional services or express trains would be considered by Translink.

Cr Pisasale said the frequency of train services needed to be reconsidered to encourage workers to use public transport.

Catching a train from Brisbane Central to Ipswich takes one hour.

"It's right next to the best public transport hub in Ipswich," Cr Pisasale said.

"People will only catch public transport when it's fast and frequent.

"The frequency of the train line needs to be looked at."

He said the city centre had enough parking capacity to cope with an influx of cars.

The Ipswich City Square car park has 1540 spaces, while the CBD has 2135 on-street car parks.

The Icon Ipswich building also has 200 car parks.

It appears unlikely the third rail line between Darra and Redbank for express services will be built before 2021.

A spokesperson for Transport Minister Scott Emerson said the state's financial situation meant the project could not be brought forward.

"Fortunately, there is still capacity available on the Darra to Redbank line, allowing for continued patronage growth," the spokesperson said.

"Future projects will be considered once the state's budget repair process has been undertaken."

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