Article: Stuck on a train with no toilet - what are you supposed to do?

[somebody]

I wholeheartedly agree with colinw, with the exception of the multiple branding bit.

[Arnz]

After the debacle of EMUs on the Gold Coast Line, followed by the continual SMUs on the Gympie North run, I'm not really that surprised that the recent announcement was more like 

[colinw]

I wholeheartedly agree with colinw, with the exception of the multiple branding bit.

Reason for multiple branding is:

1.  Clear differentiation of product (ala V/Line)..
2.  potential for "Q/Line" to take on some regional rail routes, e.g. Bundaberg, Maryborough, Lockyer Valley, (foamy: down the interstate to Casino).
3.  Separate fare structures for Interurban vs. Suburban, and makes it more palatable to charge a more sustainable fare level for longer distance if the product is good enough to charge for (again, think V/Line).

IMHO the merged Interurban/Suburban rail operators (CityRail & CityTrain) both do a cr%p job on Interurban, and in the NSW case in particular also charge fares that are way too low for the distance travelled.

[somebody]

I would counter with Transperth who do a pretty reasonable job of long distance travelling on their N-S lines.

V/Line is the exact opposite of charging a more sustainable fare level for longer distance commuters.

Similarly, preventing people e.g. at Beenleigh from using the Gold Coast trains would be a retrograde step IMO.  I'd say the same at Caboolture.

[HappyTrainGuy]

The QR days certainly aren't what they used to be. I don't see the need for privatising or seperating the long distance lines. Just fix the problem that Translink created when it took over providing services. Since they also have their hand in the cookie jar everything just goes around and around in circles. Over the years QR has had some big plans for service improvments but have been knocked back on them, had limited funding or simply had to delay them.

[Stillwater]

Before we start talking about livery and identity, it would be helpful to set up a specific Interurban Unit, an administrative unit, with QR - get a group together to get their heads around interurban issues, including trains to Lockyer, Maryborough as ColinW suggests.  By having a dedicated team working on this, we may get some sense; away from the notions of 'one size fits all, Nambour to Nerang'.

[colinw]

+1 

I would love to see a separate unit or operator that does for QLD what V/Line does for Victoria.  The booming passenger figures down there speak volumes - a product that people WANT to use as opposed to one they HAVE to use (or not use if they have a car).

[ozbob]

Take a pinch of VR, add some track improvements, mix in well frequency improvements and fare cuts. Bake, in modern DMUs, until firm.  Turn out for improved service and patronage.




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[HappyTrainGuy]

Before we start talking about livery and identity, it would be helpful to set up a specific Interurban Unit, an administrative unit, with QR - get a group together to get their heads around interurban issues, including trains to Lockyer, Maryborough as ColinW suggests.  By having a dedicated team working on this, we may get some sense; away from the notions of 'one size fits all, Nambour to Nerang'.

Pretty sure there was something similar in the mid 1990's-early 2000's... maybe a regular review panel. Pretty sure it was merged overtime. Now anything under the PT banner for example that's not a traveltrain or chartered service has to go through Translink to sign off on if its in its region. Maryborough should be under the existing TiltTrain banner but it would be good to see some DMUs providing services out west again.

[Stillwater]

QR must have some sort of employee corporate study bank, or other staff development fund.  I would be prepared to kick in a couple of hundred dollars to send some up-and-coming wunderkid(s) to Melbourne for a few days to study V/Line operations then return to the Cando State to write a paper and implementation plan for a similar operation here.

We could call it the Rail Back on Track Scholarship.

[SurfRail]

I would counter with Transperth who do a pretty reasonable job of long distance travelling on their N-S lines.

V/Line is the exact opposite of charging a more sustainable fare level for longer distance commuters.

Similarly, preventing people e.g. at Beenleigh from using the Gold Coast trains would be a retrograde step IMO.  I'd say the same at Caboolture.

Remember the Mandurah line is in practical terms more like the Rockingham + 2 stations line, rather than an interurban on the scale of the Gold Coast line. 

I don't think QR does too badly on this front.  The issues are largely beyond their ability to fix meaningfully - more rollingstock and fix the NCL - so a management shakeup wouldn't necessarily fix these problems.  However, no reason not to get in there anyway with the broom (or TNT), seeing there is enough else going wrong.

[somebody]

I'd wonder if the stabling failures, particularly Robina, aren't actually caused by them.  Or at least they haven't tried hard enough to get it fixed.

Scheduling IMUs on non-interurban runs while there aren't enough IMUs for the interurban runs is completely within their control.

[HappyTrainGuy]

ala Shorncliffe line? Their IMUs are made up of peak hour services.

[somebody]

ala Shorncliffe line? Their IMUs are made up of peak hour services.

Not so much like that.  More like planned unit goes u/s, subbed unit happens to be an IMU for non-Interurban service, now non-IMU is needed for Interurban.

[ozbob]

The ICE sets are going to be refurbished I think.  So there is a good opportunity to run EMUs on the GympieLander Northern Experience

eg. --> http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=371381

Roster EMU01 preferentially of course, ' travel on sturdy locally made passenger train stock '.  Under every seat you can stow a TravelJohn, particularly for the return journey after lunch for those who so choose at Cooroy Razzle Dazzle.  Could be a great boost to tourism in the south east!  Gee people could even travel on their SEEQ tickets and enjoy the day.  If they don't use the TravelJohn, they could perhaps keep as a souvenir of the GympieLander Northern Experience ....    

[Stillwater]

As only Gympie people can, they are referring to Mr Emerson as the 'Great Dunny Fixer':
http://www.gympietimes.com.au/news/mp-scott-emerson-brings-relief-gympie/1725424/

But here is a most interesting development, and it was disclosed today in a conversation with people waiting for a train at Cooroy.  This couple was waiting to catch the southbound Tilt Train in preference to the Citytrain Gympielander.

Why not use the go-card and catch the normal train, they were asked.  Came the reply ... the Tilt cost them $28, as opposed to the $20 go-card fare and they were prepared to catch the Tilt and pay an extra $8 for seat comfort, clean toilets and fewer stops to Brisbane.

Here is a post on the Gympie Times website, from a Kilkiven woman:

"Having been a regular commuter, I eventually found it too difficult to travel on the Citytrain and, more recently, (began) to use the Tilt for the very reason given above. To be honest it wasn't just because there was no toilet on some trains, but one would have to be awfully brave or very desperate to venture into the filthy toilets on some trains, obviously used by some for anything else but the correct purpose.

"I travel on other surburban trains within the metropolitan area and they are well looked after. I always wondered why the Gympie Citytrain was so neglected so this upgrade will bring a sigh of relief to many, including young families. After all how do you tell a toddler, he can't go to the toilet? Or hang on for a few hours?"

Don't worry, QR has told the mother of a toddler just that!

Even Gympie state MP, David Gibson, uses the Tilt Train to travel back and forth to and from Brisbane.

V/Line style services for SEQ anyone?

[Fares_Fair]

Puts hand up

[somebody]

One thing I find exceedingly odd about the NBR timetable is the 7:43am arrival from RS with a 7:46am departure.  Does the train turn around in 3 minutes?  Crew swap?  Or is there a different train at NBR to operate the peak service?  If the latter, then an IMU is wasted sitting at NBR for some time.

[Stillwater]

ICEs to be refurbished? To be continued in their current role, or to be transferred to a new role in Central Queensland?

[ozbob]

ICEs to be refurbished? To be continued in their current role, or to be transferred to a new role in Central Queensland?

Don't know ...  but have heard they are to be refurbished.

They need it ...

[petey3801]

152 is being transferred to Redbank Workshops tomorrow, so it's possible it's heading in for a refurb? Bout time if it is...

[bladesplace]

Oops, someone over at the ATDB has reported that SMUs has replaced the unreliable ICEs on the daytime Gympielander run this morning.  From another report, the Nambour trains for today's off-peak had IMUs per scheduled.

That was me

QR showed total contempt towards its passengers and thumbed their nose at Scott Emerson by sending SMU206+2?? on the Gympielander this morning.

[HappyTrainGuy]

ala Shorncliffe line? Their IMUs are made up of peak hour services.

Not so much like that.  More like planned unit goes u/s, subbed unit happens to be an IMU for non-Interurban service, now non-IMU is needed for Interurban.

Ah, gotchya.

As only Gympie people can, they are referring to Mr Emerson as the 'Great Dunny Fixer':
http://www.gympietimes.com.au/news/mp-scott-emerson-brings-relief-gympie/1725424/

But here is a most interesting development, and it was disclosed today in a conversation with people waiting for a train at Cooroy.  This couple was waiting to catch the southbound Tilt Train in preference to the Citytrain Gympielander.

Why not use the go-card and catch the normal train, they were asked.  Came the reply ... the Tilt cost them $28, as opposed to the $20 go-card fare and they were prepared to catch the Tilt and pay an extra $8 for seat comfort, clean toilets and fewer stops to Brisbane.

Here is a post on the Gympie Times website, from a Kilkiven woman:

"Having been a regular commuter, I eventually found it too difficult to travel on the Citytrain and, more recently, (began) to use the Tilt for the very reason given above. To be honest it wasn't just because there was no toilet on some trains, but one would have to be awfully brave or very desperate to venture into the filthy toilets on some trains, obviously used by some for anything else but the correct purpose.

"I travel on other surburban trains within the metropolitan area and they are well looked after. I always wondered why the Gympie Citytrain was so neglected so this upgrade will bring a sigh of relief to many, including young families. After all how do you tell a toddler, he can't go to the toilet? Or hang on for a few hours?"

Don't worry, QR has told the mother of a toddler just that!

Even Gympie state MP, David Gibson, uses the Tilt Train to travel back and forth to and from Brisbane.

V/Line style services for SEQ anyone?

Finally people are utilising the tilts past Nambour. I've been saying that more people should for ages Not only do you get a better seat, cleaner toilets, a pure express service, better lighting, better ride, quieter ride and tv screens you also get to have breaky served from the gallery car

[mufreight]

Since Translink has now taken over the operation of Traveltrain services go card fares should apply for journeys on traveltrain services within the Translink fare area such as Gympie North into the CBD

[HappyTrainGuy]

Since Translink has now taken over the operation of Traveltrain services go card fares should apply for journeys on traveltrain services within the Translink fare area such as Gympie North into the CBD

Against that. Its not a walk up service. Otherwise you'll just get everyone pouring onto the TiltTrain to go a short way preventing people that want to go futher.

[Stillwater]

^But, if a spare seat is going begging .....

Comments from a Victorian rail users' blog:

"There's no inner time limit for V/Line services*, you can reserve a seat right up until the time the train is scheduled to depart the station you are boarding at."

"It is possible to reserve right up to departure - I have reserved a First Class seat on a Warrnambool - Melbourne train as the train was rounding the bend and arriving into Marshall. 1:51pm purchase for the 1:53pm train ex-Marshall."

The blog included a reproduction of the ticket.

[somebody]

Since Translink has now taken over the operation of Traveltrain services go card fares should apply for journeys on traveltrain services within the Translink fare area such as Gympie North into the CBD

Against that. Its not a walk up service. Otherwise you'll just get everyone pouring onto the TiltTrain to go a short way preventing people that want to go futher.

Agree.  It's also a different standard of service, so justifies a different priced ticket.  Perhaps heading inbound it may make a modicum of sense, but outbound it's completely non-sensible.

[HappyTrainGuy]

^But, if a spare seat is going begging .....

Comments from a Victorian rail users' blog:

"There's no inner time limit for V/Line services*, you can reserve a seat right up until the time the train is scheduled to depart the station you are boarding at."

"It is possible to reserve right up to departure - I have reserved a First Class seat on a Warrnambool - Melbourne train as the train was rounding the bend and arriving into Marshall. 1:51pm purchase for the 1:53pm train ex-Marshall."

The blog included a reproduction of the ticket.

Yes, and that's very well and fine for Vline as that's their intended market because Metro don't offer that kind of inturban service but these are long distance passenger services that are covering 600-1200km. Its no different than having Caboolture residents getting on Nambour services during peak hour because it gets them there quicker. When was the last time you got on a vline train and had access to tv units, showers, sleeping cars, galleries (given its on selected reserved services for vline), reserved luggage/storage areas, drinking fountains, service attendants along with a host of added services. If there are service delays staff will go far out of the way to make sure passengers get to where they want to get to. If translink keep jacking up the price I wouldn't be suprised in the very slightest at all to see Gympie ticket prices going up or the boarding policies changed once again. Caboolture restrictions get extended to Gympie ie Southbound drop offs only no boarding otherwise express/doors remain locked. Northbound pick up only at Gympie otherwise the doors remain locked/runs express.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

23 January 2013

Re: Wee matters ...

Greetings,

Yesterdays Gympie North day service was run with an SMU, this is non toilet equipped.  Queensland Rail can only do so much with the problems of fleet availability, poor stabling arrangements, track capacity constraints, unreliable train units eg. ICE sets,  which all complicates the availability of toilet equipped trains. There has been a long term systemic failure in planning and resourcing.  The Sunshine Coast Line is a national disgrace, and requires urgent upgrades.

Perhaps it is time to consider the provision of TravelJohn Disposable Urinal Kits  (  http://www.intelligenthealthsystems.com.au/traveljohn.html ) to guards so that people who are caught short can relieve themselves on the move. 

TravelJohn kits have been made available on Dutch railways, as a similar problem there.  See Dutch Train Company 'Solves' Toilet Fiasco With Emergency Pee-In-A-Bag http://www.worldcrunch.com/dutch-train-company-solves-toilet-fiasco-emergency-pee-bag/culture-society/dutch-train-company-solves-toilet-fiasco-with-emergency-pee-in-a-bag/c3s4040/#.UP7DjWd-ZhR

Happy travelling, and don't forget to touch off!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Scott Emerson

Tackling toilet troubles



New measures being introduced today will see improvements to toilet facilities for passengers on the Sunshine Coast train line.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson said it is reasonable for passengers to expect the most basic amenities on our train network, particularly on longer services.

"Having travelled on the Sunshine Coast line many times before I understand how frustrating and inconvenient it can be when toilets are not available," Mr Emerson said.

"From today, trains with toilet facilities will be prioritised to the Sunshine Coast line with particular focus on those busy morning and afternoon peak services.

"Trains travelling to and from Brisbane and the Sunshine Coast will be inspected daily to determine if repairs are needed.

"Queensland Rail will then ensure any maintenance required is done overnight so passengers on the first Sunshine Coast service of the day will no longer have to put up with faulty toilets.

"I have also directed Queensland Rail to investigate the option of bringing mobile equipment to Nambour and Gympie as currently there is no maintenance depot at these stations.

"This would fast-track any maintenance needed and immediately increase the availability of facilities."

Mr Emerson said while the Sunshine Coast line does have other issues including limited infrastructure capacity these measures are at least a good starting point.

"While we cannot yet afford to duplicate the line due to Labor's debt, we can at least ensure services such as toilet facilities are meeting the expectations of Sunshine Coast passengers."

[ENDS] 21 January 2013

[BrizCommuter]

Since Translink has now taken over the operation of Traveltrain services go card fares should apply for journeys on traveltrain services within the Translink fare area such as Gympie North into the CBD

Against that. Its not a walk up service. Otherwise you'll just get everyone pouring onto the TiltTrain to go a short way preventing people that want to go futher.

Agree.  It's also a different standard of service, so justifies a different priced ticket.  Perhaps heading inbound it may make a modicum of sense, but outbound it's completely non-sensible.

On some commuter lines in Japan, there are "limited express/commuter liner" services in the peak. These have premium fares, and faster journey times. Some have reserved seating, and others have unreserved seating but with tickets limited to the number of seats available. As the Tilts often have spare capacity, maybe an easy to use last minute reservation system for commuters may be an idea?

Probably too difficult for poor old QR and TransLink?

[bladesplace]

Goodness gracious me! IMU 103+104 on the GympieLander today! 

[ozbob]

Goodness gracious me! IMU 103+104 on the GympieLander today! 

[ozbob]

Twitter

4m Kathy Sundstrom ‏@Sunstro

Don't believe it, toilet on this train Brisbane to Nambour is broken! @the_daily #sctrains

[ozbob]

Twitter

4m Kathy Sundstrom ‏@Sunstro

Don't believe it, toilet on this train Brisbane to Nambour is broken! @the_daily #sctrains

Twitter

Kathy Sundstrom ‏@Sunstro

Checked toilet, looks fine, might be reflection of sign. Door not taped, all good @the_daily #sctrains

[ozbob]

From the Sunshine Coast Daily click here!

No toilet or help for commuters

No toilet or help for commuters
Janine Hill 16th Feb 2013 12:21 PM

TRANSPORT Minister Scott Emerson's recent edict about daily maintenance on train toilets appears to have fallen on deaf ears.

One of two toilets on a Nambour-to-Brisbane train was out of order yesterday, despite a statement by Mr Emerson last month about daily inspections and maintenance.

On January 21, Mr Emerson said new measures would be introduced to improve toilet facilities on North Coast line trains.

"Trains travelling to and from Brisbane and the Sunshine Coast will be inspected daily to determine if repairs are needed," he said.

"Queensland Rail will then ensure any maintenance required is done overnight so passengers on the first Sunshine Coast service of the day will no longer have to put up with faulty toilets."

But commuter Jeff Addison said the toilet on the front half of yesterday's 6.14am train from Nambour to Brisbane was out of order when passengers boarded.

QR said the toilet had a faulty door motor.

A spokeswoman for the minister said he reiterated his previous directive that Queensland Rail prioritise toilet facilities on Sunshine Coast line trains.

[#Metro]

Prices are all about demand management. If there are lots of spare seats, prices should be reduced until those seats fill even if that means that seats are sold below cost price. You see this with hotel rooms with sites like wotif.com

[Stillwater]

QR says vandalism is to blame for inoperable toilets.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/videos/qr-train-toilets/17012/

[STB]

QR says vandalism is to blame for inoperable toilets.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/videos/qr-train-toilets/17012/

Not the best wording by Kevin.  The way he explained it, makes you think that there are two toilets on a 3 car set, when in fact he meant there is 1 toilet per 3 car set, so 2 toilets on a 6 car set, which means you'd have to wait until the train stopped at a station and you'd have to switch to the rear or forward 3 cars.

[Arnz]

Or if a punter is lucky to get on a SMU260/IMU160 hybrid.  Though the hybrids are usually rostered on the GC line.

[Fares_Fair]

QR says vandalism is to blame for inoperable toilets.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/videos/qr-train-toilets/17012/

tHAT VIDEO WAS RELEASED AT THE TIME OF THE LACK OF TOILETS ON sUNSHINE cOAST TRAINS WAS BEING HIGHLIGHTED BY THE sUNSHINE cOAST dAILY.
jUST AFTER kATHY sUNDSTROM HAD TRAVELLED ON THE TRAIN AND TWEETED THE EVENT.

Didn't mean to shout -- jolly keyboard caps lock !

Perfect record for my trains so far this month - huge improvement by QR.