Article: Stuck on a train with no toilet - what are you supposed to do?

[ozbob]

From the Sunshine Coast Daily click here!

Stuck on a train with no toilet - what are you supposed to do?

Stuck on a train with no toilet - what are you supposed to do?
Kathy Sundstrom 15th Jan 2013 5:41 AM

LACK of toilets on Sunshine Coast commuter trains became so acute during December, one service stopped at Caboolture to let passengers use the loo. And they were not the only passengers inconvenienced. New figures reveal that 25% of Coast commuter trains do not have a working toilet.

As the  State Government announces new peak hour rail trips for the Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast commuters are hoping the government will address a more pressing need.

Frequent rail user Jeff Addison has been keeping a "log" since last January, 2011, of how long the peak hour commute takes between Palmwoods and Brisbane and how often no toilet is available on board.

The average for the 12-month? Twenty-five percent of the trains did not have a toilet available.

In the peak December holiday season, six out of Mr Addison's nine journey's "had toilets that were out of order or locked or not on the train".

An attempt by Queensland Rail to address the shortage, one trip introduced a quick stop at Caboolture, for those who needed to relieve themsleves. "They announced they would stop at Caboolture for a toilet break," Mr Addison said.

In November, 2011, the a spokesman for the former government's transport minister, Annastacia Palaszczuk, apologised for lack of toilets after Eumundi mum, Layla Treffery, described her three-year-old's anguish having to hold in a number two for the extended journey.

Mr Addison's "loo log" proves Ms Treffery's incident is far from isolated.

In August, 15 of his 42 journeys had to be made without a toilet-stop, or 35.7%. The best month was November, with 90% of his journeys, or four out of 40, having an ablution on-board.

But Queensland Rail is not promising any changes.

"We make every effort to ensure longer services such as the Sunshine Coast lines have toilets available," a spokeswoman said yesterday. "But we do not always have trains with toilets available."

[ozbob]

 

http://www.cleanwaste.com/pee-wee-urine-bag

Maybe these could be issued to guards for those caught short ...

[BrizCommuter]

Quite frankly, it's pretty disgusting about how long this situation has been going on for. Totally unacceptable to not have toilets on trains that travel for more than around an hour from the CBD. Only in Queensland!

[somebody]

Quite frankly, it's pretty disgusting about how long this situation has been going on for. Totally unacceptable to not have toilets on trains that travel for more than around an hour from the CBD. Only in Queensland!

[Stillwater]

Comments to story:

Who has heard of this?:
People already take fold-out chairs in order to get a seat, next they will be taking port-a-loo's - I just hope they will take a petition.
-Metatron of Nambour

Many commuters are over the age of 50 -60,are using the 'service' to get to Brisbane for among other things, doctors/ hospital appointments. The lack of toilets on a train in this instance can be nerve wracking. Particularly if the passenger is having an appointment for a nether region problem. I would suggest where this is a problem, the passenger should attempt to find a "quiet corner" on the train and leave it for the cleaner.

"But we do not always have trains with toilets available."

There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for not having working toilets on those trains. No train on that run should leave the railyard without a working toilet in a carriage either end of the train. If so a commuter has to be given access to the guards van.

-   Muggins of Pacific Paradise

I cant believe we still live in a country that has no access to toilets on trains. Try telling a three year old they will have to hold it for a few hours. I have been busting coming home from Brisbane once and it was such an uncomfortable experience. I honestly thought I wasn't going to make it back to Nambour without wetting myself. Isn't it a legal obligation for there to be access to public toilets in areas where public are likely to need access to one?... I know a builder has to supply one for every job site my partner works on.

-   Shark 13 of Maroochydore

The suburban trains don't have toilets but they are only intended for short suburban journeys. QR's interurban trains do have toilets. But all too often they run a suburban train to Nambour or on the 3+ hour trip to Gympie. This is unacceptable.

-   Dennis of Australia

It is possible to get off and get on the next one.

-   Consequences of Nambour

Possible, but why should someone have to delay their trip by getting off and waiting for the next train? Maybe consequences,just maybe they actually have to be somewhere by a certain time. Besides the inconvenience that would cause,what about the ticket issues? You get a one trip ticket that allows only a time frame of two hours and if that runs out you have to buy a new ticket for your journey. Dumbest idea,not everyone has all the time in the world to be waiting around an hour or two for another train to come along.

-   Gypsy Girl 72 of Caloundra West

So a 2 hour trip turns into a 3 hours trip just so you don't wet your pants?

-Dichotomy of Mountain Creek

Don't complain to Translink using their online form as all they say it depends on scheduling and rolling stock available, QR wishes to apologise for any inconvenience. QR=Queensland Relic and Transbroken=Translink. Problem is Newman and Emerson the Transport Minister won't do anything for passengers on the Sunshine Coast line either as the LNP doesn't care less as they know they have the conservative vote. I can't even get a reply from Emerson, the most useless Minister ever appointed in Queensland.

-   Country Boy of Kureelpa

[Stillwater]

People taking fold-out chairs onto Sunshine Coast Line services so they can be guaranteed a seat on the peak-period trains to and from Brisbane?  That, and 'aisle-class seats' could be considered another peculiar and unique aspect of the SCL operations.

Provide your own seat, risk pooping your pants and urinating in your smalls because of a lack of toilets, or face the discomfort of a full bladder, infrequent and slow services, the worst reliability for any passenger line in SEQ, even longer travel times if your train happens to be a railbus, and temporary plywood and scaffold stations.  Welcome to the Sunshine Coast Line.

Still, will the government spend money on its upgrade?  Hardly.  The Commonwealth Games for the Gold Coast and the strain that visitors will put on the trains to the southern coast during the duration of the games means that is where any available money will go - for the sake of prestige.  Let's hope none of those games visitors wants to head north to Australia Zoo or to see any of the other attractions on the Sunny Coast.  They may be in for an embarrassing surprise.

[Stillwater]

Bugger me if the Sunshine Coast Daily doesn't pick up on the sentiment.
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/govt-refuses-to-move-on-our-rail-woes/1718981/

And points out Mr Powell's political subterfuge.  The Sunny Coast badly needs better (public) transport infrastructure.

[Fares_Fair]

ABC Coast FM's John Stokes is hosting an interview live from the train at 5:20pm this afternoon.
Interview with Kathy Sundstrom, intrepid Sunshine Coast Daily journalist and myself on today's events.

[somebody]

ABC Coast FM's John Stokes is hosting an interview live from the train at 5:20pm this afternoon.
Interview with Kathy Sundstrom, intrepid Sunshine Coast Daily journalist and myself on today's events.

Sounds like your getting some traction in the media.  Is it because of the fare rises perhaps?

[somebody]

Poll: Where do you stand on toilets on Sunshine Coast trains?
91% They should all have them.

The defenders of mediocrity aren't getting much support thankfully.

[colinw]

Poll: Where do you stand on toilets on Sunshine Coast trains?

There is no toilet on the Sunshine Coast train, so I am unable to stand on it.

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow

Why the punters are getting fed up on the Sunny Coast Line, been an issue for years --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1503.0 ... #sctrains #qldpol

[Stillwater]

The trauma of train travel on the Sunshine Coast, as experienced through the eyes of Sunshine Coast Daily reporter.  Gotta love the lack of parking at Nambour, the locked and out-of-order toilet and the power failure at Woombye explained away as being ' a mystery of life' -- all within two stops.

A train trip to Brisbane is like catching a canoe down the Amazon.

Read, please: http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/tweet-taste-not-so-glamorous-life-coast-commuters/1719467/

Read, please, someone from QR ... and act.  Mr Powell MP, where are you?  Or will we see you on the platform at the next election?

[Stillwater]

John Stokes, ABC Sunshine Coast FM afternoon announcer, interviews Jeff Addison, commuter, and Kathy Sundstrom, reporter with the Sunshine Coast Daily, enroute on the 5.04pm Central-Nambour train.  Interview in progress .....
Problems with phone reception

[Stillwater]

KS;  Speaks of general frustration with the lack of service, 50 people standing on her train.  Fellow travellers want an express train Brisbane-Landsborough

[Stillwater]

KS:  Tweeting as journey progresses.  JA phone drops out. 

JS says he has encountered anger over crowding and toilets.

Interview cut short due to mobile phone reception.  KS to write story in tomorrow's Sunshine Coast Daily.  Stay in touch with tweets.

[Stillwater]

Sunshine Coast Daily – comments from the paper's website:

No wonder people reluctantly use public transport, as it is over-priced and well below standard. This is a not a great advertisement for Queensland Tourism.
-Frankycino

My then 17year old got a job in a Brisbane coffee shop on the weekend about a month before she moved there for uni, as we were still looking for accommodation. It was a nightmare every weekend, I felt so sorry for her.

She was trying so hard to get her life going after school and would literally spend 8 hours a weekend on the train - it was always 2 hours late on a Sunday night and they often had to disembark for a bus, usually without any notice. I often sat at Landsborough in my car waiting and wondering with updates from her phone about the train being delayed.

It really was disgusting the way the commuters were treated and what they were expected to pay for the privilege. Because she hadn't started uni yet, she was expected to pay full adult fares for the privilege, which was about 4 hours of her 14 hour shift!

-Dichotomy

[Mr X]

What, is her daughter getting paid like $6-7/hour?

[ozbob]

Heading home on the Nambour train ...

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/c8pw2w8ro7rikbc/VcFY9kpqP3

[Mr X]

Where was that taken? Beyond Virginia?

[Stillwater]

Kathy Sundstrom tweets here:

https://twitter.com/Sunstro

[somebody]

Heading home on the Nambour train ...

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/c8pw2w8ro7rikbc/VcFY9kpqP3

Ouch!  That's awful.

[ozbob]

Where was that taken? Beyond Virginia?

About  ~30 minutes since departure from Central I would guestimate ..

[Stillwater]

Even if the toilet was working, imagine pushing through that lot to get to the toilet door!  And aren't they a happy bunch of commuters wending the way home to the Sunny Coast.

They should be singing:

QUICK QUICK QUICK
(Sung to the tune of 'Click Go the Shears')

Chorus:
Here comes the train folks, quick, quick, quick
All aboard to Nambour, it won't be slick
Chugging through all stations as passengers grow old
It's a better service. Don't, complain, we are all told.

Verses:
Out on the platform, the old widow stands
Clasping her go-card with thin bony hands
The schoolkids, mums and workers are there too
All hoping for a seat on the five-two-two.

Can't wait around for the five forty-seven
We clamour for the door.  It is Armageddon!
Arms feet and hands all clawing for some space
The train surges forward and begins to pick up pace.

Spread-eagled on the concrete the old woman sighs
As the an-noun-cer trots out the lies
'One fifty thousand extra seats waiting for your bums'
A message for deaf ears on the train to the sun.

On to Caboolture and there's uncertainty
Whether we can stop, there to have a pee
Don't worry there's a funnel and a bottle empty
So pass around the water as we hit Maroochy.

Past the Glasshouse Mountains, the ranks begin to thin
But thrust so close together, we feel like kith and kin
The Scrabble and the games boards help pass the time of day
As we all begin to plot and chant – Anna, you will pay!

We clatter into Nambour, our journey's at an end
Tho' others deride it, our lifestyle we defend
Home to our families and a dinner burnt to toast
Ready for the morning ride, from the Sunny Coast.

[Arnz]

Hey look! A working 'decanted' toilet.   Too bad the reporter had to fight the hordes of crowds jump into the lead 3 cars to get there!

https://twitter.com/Sunstro/status/291307710459297792/photo/1

[ozbob]

Part of the problem with the loos is acts of vandalism.  Eg. sticking things down the toilet etc.

Queensland Rail used to have plumbers. They went a number of rationalisations/restructures ago I understand.  So there are delays in getting plumbers to fix toilets.  This compounds the decanting issues as well.  I had heard that plumbers were to be contracted at Nambour to fix loos there as needed, perhaps when stabled.  Don't know if that bold move was done.  I think there might be plumbers available at Mayne, and Robina as needed.  So part of the issue .

The other part is that non toilet stock are frequently run where IMUs should be running.  Not sure why that happens as often as it does. Maybe they need two separate yards - IMU/ICE  and the rest ...

[Arnz]

One day I've seen recently is where the Cleveland and Shorncliffe lines had IMUs on runs, whilst one of many Gold Coast Line runs had a SMU220, and the daytime Gympielander had a 3-car IMU100 with a 'un-decanted' out of order toilet.  Guard told commuters that day that a unit failed (was originally meant to be a 5-car ICE, then one of the 3-car units of the IMU failed - halving the train from a 6-car IMU to a 3-car IMU).

Fortunately the Nambour train 30 mins behind the Gympielander had a IMU160 with a functional toilet.

[STB]

Part of the problem with the loos is acts of vandalism.  Eg. sticking things down the toilet etc.

Queensland Rail used to have plumbers. They went a number of rationalisations/restructures ago I understand.  So there are delays in getting plumbers to fix toilets.  This compounds the decanting issues as well.  I had heard that plumbers were to be contracted at Nambour to fix loos there as needed, perhaps when stabled.  Don't know if that bold move was done.  I think there might be plumbers available at Mayne, and Robina as needed.  So part of the issue .

The other part is that non toilet stock are frequently run where IMUs should be running.  Not sure why that happens as often as it does. Maybe they need two separate yards - IMU/ICE  and the rest ...

I tend to agree.  What really needs to happen is for Qld Rail to have a dedicated fleet for long distance rail that cannot be used by the yardmasters for anything other than the long distance inter urban runs with a spare ratio to allow for broken down toilets or trains with daily inspections.  I often wonder if it is worthwhile getting the Eastern Stabling Yard (ESY), and perhaps part of the ETD as a location for such a dedicated fleet.  Petey?

[Stillwater]

So, will the immediate problems be solved by QR having a plumber or two 'on tap' to decant and repair?  Is the issue one of those false economy moves, where you sack essential staff in favour of contractors, but the contractors are not always readily available to fix the problem, so the train goes into service with an 'out of order sticker'?

[petey3801]

One main problem lies in the fact that we still simply don't have enough IMUs to go around, AIUI. With the IMU scheduled runs, plus maintenance etc., there just aren't enough units to keep it going, hence why a lot of 260s can be found on interurban runs.
Another problem is the Sector 2 timetables, as there are still runs to/from the Gold Coast in the morning/arvo peak that run to/from Shorncliffe or Doomben and become stuck on the Cleveland/Shorncliffe corridor all day until PM peak where they head back to the coast.
Sector 1 timetables didn't help either where at least 1 IMU is rostered on the Caboolture - Ipswich runs all day from AM peak (when it comes from the NCL) right through to at least the PM peak, if not till the end of the night. I know on Mon-Thurs the last Caboolture train is rostered as an IMU (I imagine this unit would be used to form a NCL service the next AM peak, running empty from Cab yard).

With the New Gen Rollingstock contract seemingly on hold (haven't heard anything from that for quite some time now... Newman cost cutting?), this situation isn't getting any better anytime soon... Especially with ICE unreliability meaning IMUs are often used on at least the daytime Gympielander and the off-peak Cab-NBR shuttle (this one is also often an SMU/EMU).

Banning the yardmasters from using the IMUs on non-IMU runs could help, but doubt it would take all SMU/EMU stock off the long runs unfortunately. I don't think the yardmasters care all that much to be quite honest, as it is, I see a number of IMUs stabled in Mayne during the day while SMU/EMUs are on IMU runs...

[Fares_Fair]

My sincere thank you to the Sunshine Coast Daily for spending a day in the life of a long haul, Sunshine Coast commuter.

The journalist, Kathy Sundstrom almost experienced it all in a day - only exception was a major delay.
Reliability has been better (below average of 2hours 50mins) for the last 1.5 months, according to my daily statistics.

1. Go card fare was $30.16 (ouch) for a return trip from Nambour, but staff were especially helpful and courteous in explaining how it all works.
2. Got on train and toilets were locked and out of order, so no surprises there.
3. Power outage at Woombye station for just 3-4 minutes. Well done to the train crew for getting it going so fast. It's a credit to them.
4. Around 20 people standing for the last 20 minutes of the journey into the city.
5. Journey home was quite crowded with around 50+ standees. Standees stood for 50 minutes, until Morayfield station.

EDIT: Cost corrected from $30.08 to the correct $30.16 return go card.

[Old Northern Road]

Heading home on the Nambour train ...

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/c8pw2w8ro7rikbc/VcFY9kpqP3

Very misleading referring to that as a Nambour train as around 90% of those people would be Caboolture line passengers.

[SurfRail]

Heading home on the Nambour train ...

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/c8pw2w8ro7rikbc/VcFY9kpqP3

Very misleading referring to that as a Nambour train as around 90% of those people would be Caboolture line passengers.

I tend to trust Fares_Fair's assessment of these things.  He knows what he is talking about.

[ozbob]

#sctrains ... gone global ..

=========

Twitter

Anna Plyushteva ‏@_kniginia

The Urban Mobility Daily is out! http://paper.li/_kniginia/urban-mobility ... ▸ Top stories today via @Robert_Dow @markminkjan

[ozbob]

From the Sunshine Coast Daily click here!

Cattle class to the Coast ... and they do it day after day

Cattle class to the Coast ... and they do it day after day
Kathy Sundstrom 17th Jan 2013 5:43 AM

WAKING up at 4.44am to get to work is an absurd idea.

But it is around this time that many Sunshine Coast commuters who catch the 6.14am train from Nambour to get to work in Brisbane need to get up.

With well-paid, full-time work on the Sunshine Coast a luxury few enjoy, the number of commuters continues to increase.

Queensland Rail estimates about 1000 people are making the trip on the train each day.

Many more have ditched the train and would prefer to drive rather than deal with the prospect of delays, rail buses and no sitting room, never mind the lack of toilets.

I joined the 6.14am journey yesterday to experience first-hand their daily commute.

Thankfully I managed to score the last available car park at Nambour, or else I would have had to add a minimum of $7 for car parking on top of the $30.16 it would cost me using a Go Card to get to Brisbane.

That fare would increase to $43.80 if I didn't have the card - almost enough to fill the tank of my car and drive to Brisbane and back twice.

Public transport is definitely no longer cheap, particularly travelling as a family.

Palmwoods dad Jeff Addison has been making the journey to Brisbane for 12 years.

In that time, he has watched the level of service from the Sunshine Coast decline while the cost increases.

Calls to address it appear to be heard by politicians only when they are in Opposition.

Mr Addison and Rail Back on Track have tried to keep the poor rail service on the government's agenda.

He keeps logs detailing train delays and the inadequacy of toilets.

>> VANDALS TO BLAME FOR DUD TOILETS

It is not a job he likes doing, but it is the only way he can prove that his frustration is not personal but based on recorded fact.

I can't help but feel for Queensland Rail staff, as does Mr Addison. They are not to blame for late trains, lack of toilets and inadequate service, but often they have to front the anger.

The first thing I noticed on boarding the train was that the toilet on my carriage was taped and locked up with an out-of-order sign on it.

This could create a problem, as I did not have time before racing to Nambour to flush out my breakfast and cup of coffee.

At Landsborough, we were joined by several other "regular" commuters. There was David and Deborah and a handful of others who have become friends on the long journey.

Like Mr Addison, they make the sacrifice of often leaving in the dark and getting home in the dark to support their families.

"I took a 40% pay cut moving from Sydney to Brisbane and I would have to do that again to get a job on the Sunshine Coast," David said.

They're used to seeing distressed people, particularly the elderly, looking for a toilet. Mr Addison said there is another toilet on the train,   which may be open, but to get there you have to get off the carriage and run at least three carriages down to hop on board again. Not possible on a 30-second station stop.

With most train intervals less than a minute, this is not a viable option, particularly if you find it is also out-of-order.

Acting on Queensland Rail's recommendation that passengers request a "comfort stop" won't work. To get to the guard, I would have to squeeze through the people packed on the train, push the emergency "call for guard'' signal and then announce "I need the loo".

The guard would then have to stop a train full of people anxious to get to work on time while waiting for me to relieve myself.

There are many issues commuters would like addressed, such as the toilets, the duplication of the railway line and cheaper fares.

But the main issue is length of time. An express service between the Sunshine Coast and Brisbane, such as is offered on the Gold Coast from Beenleigh, could cut 30 minutes from the journey.

Anything that can be done to make the two-hour journey shorter would be a welcome relief.

[ozbob]

From the Sunshine Coast Daily click here!

Vandals blamed for dud toilets

Vandals blamed for dud toilets
Kathy Sundstrom 17th Jan 2013 5:43 AM

VANDALS are the main culprits behind the lack of toilet facilities on some Sunshine Coast trains.

Queensland Rail general manager operations Kevin Wright said there were enough toilets to service all Sunshine Coast trains, but vandalism was an ongoing challenge.

Mr Wright invited the Daily for a meeting to discuss the toilet issue in Brisbane yesterday.

He said while every effort was made to ensure all trains on the Sunshine Coast route had toilets, at least "one a day" would go without.

Policing the toilet area had been almost impossible because of privacy issues and it appeared vandals know this.

"They are attracted to the toilet area as there isn't the security in place," Mr Wright said.

"They throw things down the toilet and block it and then this has to be fixed."

He was confident Queensland Rail's maintenance schedule was sufficient to meet demand, but said there wasn't a maintenance department in Nambour which often resulted in the early-morning train going to the city broken.

He said "comfort stops" were offered in Caboolture, where people could get off the train.

He acknowledged the Caboolture stop was not long enough for a toilet break, but said trains ran regularly from Caboolture to the city during peak hour and it would not be a long wait before another arrived.

Queensland Rail also will consider placing notices on toilets and advising passengers of the existence of a second toilet on the train.

While the responsibility of train timetables, express routes and charges was with the Transport and Main Road

Department and not Queensland Rail, Mr Wright said they did provide advice.

He said about 1000 people commuted from the Sunshine Coast each day, compared to the Gold Coast's about 4000, hence the need for more express services from there.

He also said the time difference between the two journeys was only around 30 minutes, but acknowledged this would make a difference to regular commuters.

[ozbob]

So the notion of contracting some local plumbers at Nambour went by the way side, judging by the comments.

Rather incompetent the whole affair really. 

Time to issue portable disposable urinals to guards for emergency relief of pax ..  --> http://www.intelligenthealthsystems.com.au/traveljohn.html

[ozbob]

I was told that in 2008 proper notices would be put on the trains re toilets ... 

All too hard.  "Would you like some bottled water Sir?  On second thoughts you better not, it is a long way without a wee Sir  .... "

[somebody]

Good to see the sunshine coast line getting some media attention.  I expect action isn't far off.

[HappyTrainGuy]

So the notion of contracting some local plumbers at Nambour went by the way side, judging by the comments.

Oh please. Just another comment from someone that assumes its so easy to fix with a run of the block plumber Its not as easy as just getting a plumber beside/under or in a train to fix the issue given the nature of the system and the extra requirments needed to undertake the task. Best to get it back to Mayne, flag it, decant, have access to all the parts and tools needed, have people who know how the system operates and where the problem lies, remove parts to access the obstruction, fix the issue (I've heard some very very interesting stories about some of the things removed) and put her back into service. Anyway that's a mute point as the amount of contracted work being available has been cut in favor for more inhouse work due to Government cut backs on spending across the railways announced last year.