Lift Outages

[Golliwog]

Seeing as Translink has now begun posting these, figured it might be worth keeping track of them. Ozbob, I wasn't sure if these quite fit into to Service Interruptions thread but feel free to shift it there if you think it more appropriate.

Lift 1 (Plat 1+2) Helensvale station out-of-order
Lift 1 (Plat 1) Redbank train station out-of-order
Lift outage: Indooroopilly station platform 3 & 4
Lift 1 (Pl 1+2) Toombul train station out-of-order
Lift outage: Oxley station, platforms 1 and 2
Lift outage: Kingston station platform 1 and 2
Lift 3 Yeerongpilly train station out-of-order
Lift outage: Cultural Centre inbound platform

With the exception of Oxley, each of those just include the following:

Customers requiring assistance with station access should call 3606 5555 or SMS 0428 774 636.

The Oxley page directs passengers to talk to station staff to organize alternative transport to/from Darra or Corinda stations for services that use platforms 1 and 2.

[ozbob]

Good idea.  They starting publishing these after the adverse publicity a while back.

[mufreight]

Seeing as Translink has now begun posting these, figured it might be worth keeping track of them. Ozbob, I wasn't sure if these quite fit into to Service Interruptions thread but feel free to shift it there if you think it more appropriate.

Lift 1 (Plat 1+2) Helensvale station out-of-order
Lift 1 (Plat 1) Redbank train station out-of-order
Lift outage: Indooroopilly station platform 3 & 4
Lift 1 (Pl 1+2) Toombul train station out-of-order
Lift outage: Oxley station, platforms 1 and 2
Lift outage: Kingston station platform 1 and 2
Lift 3 Yeerongpilly train station out-of-order
Lift outage: Cultural Centre inbound platform

With the exception of Oxley, each of those just include the following:

Customers requiring assistance with station access should call 3606 5555 or SMS 0428 774 636.

The Oxley page directs passengers to talk to station staff to organize alternative transport to/from Darra or Corinda stations for services that use platforms 1 and 2.

Ramps do not break down.   

[Gazza]

Ramps can suck:
https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=morningside&hl=en&ll=-27.470503,153.069177&spn=0.002584,0.005284&safe=off&hnear=Morningside+Queensland&gl=au&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=-27.470503,153.069177&panoid=ENbxxAHdpEYgbFqWBni7Xw&cbp=12,168.87,,0,1.19

[mufreight]

ypur opinion Gazza but if you were a 80 year old who was trapped in one that broke down and got stuck in the middle of summer for over an hour you might have a different opinion.

[HappyTrainGuy]

ypur opinion Gazza but if you were a 80 year old who was trapped in one that broke down and got stuck in the middle of summer for over an hour you might have a different opinion.

Heaven forbid should an 80 year old attempt to walk up a 3 story ramp in direct sunlight with a considerable walking distance and then back down in the middle of summer. Most elevators have cooling now so it won't be a worse case scenario if someone gets trapped. Frankly I'd be more concerned about getting stuck onboard a train between stations during a power failure. Gazza was just pointing out that some ramps just suck. Case in point Morningside to which he linked too.

[Gazza]

ypur opinion Gazza but if you were a 80 year old who was trapped in one that broke down and got stuck in the middle of summer for over an hour you might have a different opinion.

So one 80 year old gets trapped an incident so we cant have lifts at all?
There have been cases where crowded trains have stopped for long periods due to power outages, and as such that means no aircon either. Does that mean we should just have no trains  in case that happens again and there happens to be an 80 year old onboard?
And as HTG said, I dont think an 80 year old would cope with a long 3 storey ramp like the one depicted on a day to day basis.

Also, coincidentally...I've been on a 747 on the tarmac at DBX in June (So thats the Middle Eastern Summer) and the aircon stopped working in the cabin shortly after boarding. It was 30 minutes sweltering till the cabin crew could arrange some drinks for us (Its amazing how quickly it heats up inside despite small windows), and more time again till the problem was resolved and we could take off. Hasn't stopped me from flying.

Besides Mu, have you ever seen the transport systems in Vancouver, or Singapore?

The very nature of it is that these lines are elevated or underground...basically no at grade stations (I think theres only two on the Airport branch of the Canada line in the whole system, and they still have lifts anyway)...It's not called the Skytrain for nothing.
Singapore is the same.
As such these systems have lift access to every station. No ramps.
-Vancouver gets very cold, similarly Singapore is hot and humid all year round so there's your hot summers day argument out the window.
-These cities naturally have old/disabled people too.
-These systems carry far more passengers too.

It can be made to work there, so it can be made to work here. Your argument puts 100% weight on a few incidents, and 0% weight on what actually happens on other railways around the world.

Case closed.

[SurfRail]

Ramps are fine where the terrain permits, normally where you have side platforms and the station happens to sit on a depression (eg Cardinida Road)

Ramps of the sort at Dutton Park, Loganlea, Morningside, Boondall, South Bank etc where you just plonk a big box structure in there - no thanks.

The worst example I've come across recently is the elevated station at Port Adelaide, where they don't even have stairs for people who would be capable of using them.  Heaven help you if you need to rush for a train (that only comes half-hourly).

[mufreight]

ypur opinion Gazza but if you were a 80 year old who was trapped in one that broke down and got stuck in the middle of summer for over an hour you might have a different opinion.

Heaven forbid should an 80 year old attempt to walk up a 3 story ramp in direct sunlight with a considerable walking distance and then back down in the middle of summer. Most elevators have cooling now so it won't be a worse case scenario if someone gets trapped. Frankly I'd be more concerned about getting stuck onboard a train between stations during a power failure. Gazza was just pointing out that some ramps just suck. Case in point Morningside to which he linked too.

If the height to an overhead walkway was as you suggest three stories then logicaly there would not be an overgead walkway but a subway under the rail lines which would at worst require a vertical distance of  less than 6.5 metres, in the event of an overhead walkway the vertical distance would be 7.2 metres from ground level to the walkway and 5.8 metres back to the platform.
At present my physical condition limits me walking on level ground to about 50 metres without a break but I can manage the ramps at Dutton Park as can friends who are more physicaly impaired than I.
The list of lifts out of order is testiment to the fact that they have a high failure rate and the maintenance of them is an ongoing nightmare, in some case they are continuously used as urinals as happens at Ipswich, a station that has ramps and lifts which frequently do not work and no steps.
The original costs of lifts depending on the instalation is about $2 million so if a station requires 2 lifts this adds $4 million to the cost of the station with the ongoing costs of maintenance.
With ramps they do not fail, require no maintenance and the elderly are not in fear of becoming trapped in them or being assaulted and robbed.
Yes geographical location of a station makes a difference and as for Gazza obviously you are physicaly fit and like stairs, half you luck but your objection to ramps and preference for lifts is at best falacious, why spend millions for something that will require a high level of maintenance and can fail with no practical alternative back up system.
So Gazza it is not a case of case closed, as for what happens in Dubi on a 747 is less than relevant to this discussion, as for Vancouver and Singapore their systems are considerably different to here in terms of passenger volumes carried and they have backup systems in place to ensure access and staff avaliable to rectify problems very quickly when they do occour.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Sigh. Morningside. Built on the side of a hill. 3 story ramps. Taller than Dutton Park by a mile. Elevation difference is too high for a subway ramp (higher than the ramps at Ipswich station). Southbanks ramps are about 50m long to access the road bridge and even then you see disabled people struggling to use the ramps from the street below or from the overpass. Some situations ramps are good but others ramps are just crap, take up too much space and make the area look ugly.

[Golliwog]

Sigh. Morningside. Built on the side of a hill. 3 story ramps. Taller than Dutton Park by a mile. Elevation difference is too high for a subway ramp (higher than the ramps at Ipswich station). Southbanks ramps are about 50m long to access the road bridge and even then you see disabled people struggling to use the ramps from the street below or from the overpass. Some situations ramps are good but others ramps are just cr%p, take up too much space and make the area look ugly.

To be fair though, pretty sure those Southbank ramps aren't DDA compliant. Too steep a grade (same as at Keperra).

I'm still struggling with the idea that there is really an argument about ramps vs lifts vs stairs going on.

DDA compliance is an eventual necessity, and should be achieved using both ramps and lifts. If lifts are to be the sole DDA compliant access, then there needs to be more than one for precisely the reasons mu mentions, that they can fail and aren't always fixed that quickly. Where possible though, I agree that ramps can and should be incorporated, particularly when the station is lower patronage and can't justify the cost of multiple lifts per platform, but also if space allows for it.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Grade wise Boondall is worse than Southbank IIRC.

[Gazza]

So Gazza it is not a case of case closed

No, it is case closed.

Notice that its lifts predominantly built, not ramps.

[SurfRail]

^ The only station recently built or rebuilt which did not feature lifts, to my knowledge, is Ormeau.  Ormeau happens to sit in a gully and they are an appropriate treatment there, because you only have to go up or down a ramp once per entry to, or exit from, the station.  It's also a lower patronage station and is pretty much unmanned, which helps to keep the outgoings in check.

Few other stations are like that though.

[mufreight]

So Gazza it is not a case of case closed

No, it is case closed.

Notice that its lifts predominantly built, not ramps.

You will find a change in that position is in the wind.
The days of the TajMahal station are going, the folly of lifts except where they are esential has become apparent to the bean counters and a potential legal action will if it goes ahead make the powers to be even more risk averse.

[Gazza]

You will find a change in that position is in the wind.

No, this is just foaming speculation on your part.
They are still going to continue to build lifts.

[HappyTrainGuy]

There is potential legal action for anything these days. Like that dickhead that climbed the outside of a railway overpass while drunk and fell off onto the overheads before then trying to fleece QR out of 750,000 for not ensuring the idiots safety. I don't know if its true but it wouldn't suprise me but a long time ago (mid 90's) someone tried to sue QR for a hefty sum because they sprinted onto the train/along the carriage and quickly found out how much it hurts when face meets 4 stainless steel hand rails on the EMUs. There is always law suits because someone tripped down some stairs. The lifts aren't QR's problem so to say for mtce as they are maintained by an external party. It would just be a litigation mess as everyone sues and counter sues each other if somoene gets trapped. Just because Translink posts a few status updates about lifts out of order doesn't mean its a widespread machenical problem. As I understand Toombul's issue and other stations relates to recent component and lift upgrades from the last few months. Rather than there being a machenical fault of someone getting trapped they are going through mtce and component checks. South Bank just had their lifts upgraded as well. Nothing to be worried over mate 

[Gazza]

Indeed, I know for a fact the Cultural Center one was just maintenance because I walked past when the guy was working on it.

[Golliwog]

Lift Outage: Lawnton train station (Ebert Parade)
Last updated: 5.54am Friday 30 November 2012

Lift 3 at Lawnton train station (Entry - down side near Ebert Parade) is out of service.

Customers requiring assistance with station access should call 3606 5555 or SMS 0428 774 636.
===============================================
Lift outage: South Brisbane, platform 1
Last updated: 12.44pm Thursday 29 November 2012

Lift 1 on platform 1 at South Brisbane station is out of order.

Customers requiring assistance with station access should call 3606 5555 or SMS 0428 774 636.
===============================================
Lift outage: Corinda station, platform 5
Last updated: 11.51am Thursday 29 November 2012

Lift 4 on platform 5 at Corinda station is out of order.

Customers requiring assistance with station access should call 3606 5555 or SMS 0428 774 636.
===============================================
Lift 3 (Plt 4+5) Roma St train stn out-of-order
Last updated: 1.38pm Monday 26 November 2012

Lift 3 (Platforms 4 and 5) at Roma Street train station is currently out-of-order.

Customers requiring assistance with station access should call 3606 5555 or SMS 0428 774 636.
===============================================
Lift outage: Cultural Centre inbound platform
Last updated: 8.39am Tuesday 27 November 2012

The lift on the inbound platform at Cultural Centre busway station is out of order.

Customers unable to use the stair access to the overpass can use the lift at the nearby Queensland Museum or the QPAC lift accessed via the pedestrian crossing at Melbourne and Grey Streets.

[mufreight]

Platform 5 at Park Road (bus station) out of order still after two days with a notice stickytaped to the lift door to ring for assistance. 
Obviously they know it is out of order but too much trouble for Translink to get it fixed, last time the same lift was out of order it was not fixed for 6 days, being told to get on the next bus to the Uni and do the round trip and get off the bus at the other side (platform 4) is not really the right solution after two days.

[red dragin]

We had a lift out for 6 days waiting for parts, it could've the same scenario.

Both lifts here are 5 months old, each has broken down 4 times in two weeks.

[ozbob]

The lift at Goodna was out for 8 months, but that was after the floods.  Been reliable of late.

[Golliwog]

http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/details/1359512489

Last updated: 5.46pm Tuesday 5 February 2013

Lifts are currently out-of-service at the following busway stations due to previous severe weather:

    Boggo Road (outbound)
    QUT Kelvin Grove (outbound)
    Kedron Brook (outbound)

If you require assistance at any of the stations above, contact the Busway staff by using the manual help-phones on the platform.

    Langlands Park (outbound)

If you're at Langlands Park busway station, you should use the traffic lights at the intersection with Old Cleveland Road to cross platforms.

http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/details/1359956341

Last updated: 11.29am Wednesday 6 February 2013

Lifts on platform 4, 5 and 10 at Roma Street train station are currently out of order.

If you require assistance with station access please call 3606 5555 or SMS 0428 774 636.

http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/details/1359617091

Last updated: 2.43pm Tuesday 5 February 2013

Lift 3 on platforms 3 and 4 at Northgate station is out of order.

If you require assistance with station access please call 3606 5555 or SMS 0428 774 636.

http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/details/1359578711

Last updated: 2.44pm Tuesday 5 February 2013

Lifts at Elimbah train station are out of order due to damage from last weekend's severe weather.

If you require assistance with station access please call 3606 5555 or SMS 0428 774 636.

[colinw]

Eight Mile Plains has been in & out of service (both platforms) as well. Both back online this morning.

[ozbob]

We need a 'real time lift tracker' app ...  seems to be a chronic issue of late ...

[mufreight]

These lifts "should" have standardised control and operating mechanisms and part should be readily avaliable for them if not on hand for the maintenance contractors.
Another point is why is it that "scheduled" maintenance on both escalators is carried out during daytime rather than of a night time when they are not in use as is done elsewhere (Sydney)
The failure rate for the lifts in particular seems to be excessively high so is the maintenance below par or is the equipment itself simply not up to the task of operating reliably??

[longboi]

For the Busway, the amount of lifts out at once is abnormal. I can't speak for QR lifts, however it is normal to have at least one lift out per day on the Busway.

Mufreight, Vandalism is also an issue which affects lifts. Not necessarily a lack of maintenance. 

[ozbob]

The thought occurred to me overnight that the delays with lifts being fixed may be related to the latest round of floods.  Technicians elsewhere and parts in short supply again, similar to what happened on a larger scale in 2011 ..

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow

@TransLinkSEQ @scottemersonmp @SteveMinnikinMP Might be good move to set up a separate link lift outages? Make it a bit easier to pick up.

[mufreight]

For the Busway, the amount of lifts out at once is abnormal. I can't speak for QR lifts, however it is normal to have at least one lift out per day on the Busway.

Mufreight, Vandalism is also an issue which affects lifts. Not necessarily a lack of maintenance.

Not a lot to vandalise on lifts that will render them inoperative and as for maintenance why can it not be done overnight when the lifts and escalators are not in use.
OzBob raises the issue of replacement parts that may be required, well if one was operating a fleet of buses or trains numbering in the hundreds and the potential existed for delays in the supply of parts needed to maintain them an appropiate stock of parts would be held on hand for maintenance, and few lifts if any on the railway/transtink network went for a swim in the last weather event.
The servicing is carried out by a contractor, perhaps a higher standard of service would be obtained were a penalty to be applied to the contractor for time out of service for lifts and escalators along the lines of the penalties for late running penaltied applied to QR and the bus operators.

[longboi]

For the Busway, the amount of lifts out at once is abnormal. I can't speak for QR lifts, however it is normal to have at least one lift out per day on the Busway.

Mufreight, Vandalism is also an issue which affects lifts. Not necessarily a lack of maintenance.

Not a lot to vandalise on lifts that will render them inoperative and as for maintenance why can it not be done overnight when the lifts and escalators are not in use.
OzBob raises the issue of replacement parts that may be required, well if one was operating a fleet of buses or trains numbering in the hundreds and the potential existed for delays in the supply of parts needed to maintain them an appropiate stock of parts would be held on hand for maintenance, and few lifts if any on the railway/transtink network went for a swim in the last weather event.
The servicing is carried out by a contractor, perhaps a higher standard of service would be obtained were a penalty to be applied to the contractor for time out of service for lifts and escalators along the lines of the penalties for late running penaltied applied to QR and the bus operators.

1) Actually you're wrong. For example, $20,000 worth of damage was caused to one Busway lift last year by a group of school students who were successfully prosecuted for wilful damage.

2) The lifts need not necessarily be under water to sustain water damage. Not to mention the falling/flying debris and electrical disruptions.

3) Some lifts may have become inoperable for reasons that regularly arise during day-to-day operations. The difference being at this time - as OzBob stated - that lift technicians are much busier attending to a wide variety of clients due to recent weather events.

[mufreight]

1) Actually you're wrong. For example, $20,000 worth of damage was caused to one Busway lift last year by a group of school students who were successfully prosecuted for wilful damage.

2) The lifts need not necessarily be under water to sustain water damage. Not to mention the falling/flying debris and electrical disruptions.

3) Some lifts may have become inoperable for reasons that regularly arise during day-to-day operations. The difference being at this time - as OzBob stated - that lift technicians are much busier attending to a wide variety of clients due to recent weather events.

Nikko, to respond to your post.

As said there is not a lot to vandalise on a lift to take it out of operation, yes a lift can be tampered with and damaged in such a way as to prevent it from operating but this requires someone with that intention in mind and is rare, painting and otherwise defacing them does happen unfortunately all too frequently.

Your comment about water damage, give it a little thought, if properly designed and constructed apart from the submersion of the equipment simply should not happen and damage by flying sheets of iron again if properly constructed the equipment should be sufficently robust that any damage from such an incident should me superfical.

Your last comment possibly has a basis but if I as a private commercial business contract for a service I would expect that that level of service contracted for be provided, obviously I would have no interest in the problems of other customers on my service provider, or his acquiring parts that may or may not be required to to maintain the equipment that supplier has provided.  Cold hard facts of busness.

[SurfRail]

I suspect lifts on the public transport network are always going to be prone to water penetration because most of them (including their equipment sheds) are outside and not protected by building framework other than the lift tower. 

[mufreight]

I suspect lifts on the public transport network are always going to be prone to water penetration because most of them (including their equipment sheds) are outside and not protected by building framework other than the lift tower.

Building regulations should apply to them the same as to all other buildings and I have yet to see a lift tower that is not enclosed

[somebody]

Most lifts can't have rain blow into the lift and therefore the lift shaft.

[red dragin]

Your last comment possibly has a basis but if I as a private commercial business contract for a service I would expect that that level of service contracted for be provided, obviously I would have no interest in the problems of other customers on my service provider, or his acquiring parts that may or may not be required to to maintain the equipment that supplier has provided.  Cold hard facts of busness.

The problem here is that there would be only so many qualified personal available to fix the issue in an extreme weather event, Sydney isn't going to part with its lift techs as they have contracts to maintain as well.

In my case in 2011, both lifts shafts flooded after groundwater flooded the building due to the rising Brisbane river (we had sandbagged for overland flood but could do nothing when it came in underneath through the rock). The level was still 3 m lower than the flood!

7 days to pump out the 1.5m of waterfront the bottom car park, 14 more days for someone to get to site to get the shaft overruns pumped out (limited staff - we even tried to force the doors to do it ourselves), 9 more days for the parts and staff to be available to do the repairs. $32,000 in damage from only 2.5 m of water, the lift cars where parked 3 stories up.

With a private business, there is typically someone on site to jump up and down with nothing happens, I doubt there are too many looking after the lift network for PT in Brisbane.

[SurfRail]

I suspect lifts on the public transport network are always going to be prone to water penetration because most of them (including their equipment sheds) are outside and not protected by building framework other than the lift tower.

Building regulations should apply to them the same as to all other buildings and I have yet to see a lift tower that is not enclosed

I meant in terms of the lift being located outside a building.  A lift inside Central Plaza One is not going to have the same issues with water penetration and weather exposure as the lifts at South Bank for instance.  There's just no avoiding it, unless we want to make every station in a similarly elevated position like Port Adelaide with its ridiculous ramps.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Just putting it out there at train stations you'll find that water manages to seep into the elevator shafts when it rains as it acts as a gutter for water. Sometimes from water pooled on the platform seeping in, poor drainage due to large amounts of rain (South Bank can have platform 2/3 and the stairway flood in heavy downpours). If its windy the rain can get blown against the door. Take Zillmere for example. When it rains and there is some wind about you can visually see the elevator doors have rain blown on them despite the little roof over the door and that's from sitting inside the train.

[longboi]

Just putting it out there at train stations you'll find that water manages to seep into the elevator shafts when it rains as it acts as a gutter for water. Sometimes from water pooled on the platform seeping in, poor drainage due to large amounts of rain (South Bank can have platform 2/3 and the stairway flood in heavy downpours). If its windy the rain can get blown against the door. Take Zillmere for example. When it rains and there is some wind about you can visually see the elevator doors have rain blown on them despite the little roof over the door and that's from sitting inside the train.

This, mufreight.

And it's not just water. Leaves blown into the door tracks can (and do) stop lifts from time to time. Easy to fix (doesn't require a technician) but nonetheless still interferes with the lift's operation.

[mufreight]

Just putting it out there at train stations you'll find that water manages to seep into the elevator shafts when it rains as it acts as a gutter for water. Sometimes from water pooled on the platform seeping in, poor drainage due to large amounts of rain (South Bank can have platform 2/3 and the stairway flood in heavy downpours). If its windy the rain can get blown against the door. Take Zillmere for example. When it rains and there is some wind about you can visually see the elevator doors have rain blown on them despite the little roof over the door and that's from sitting inside the train.

Obviously the equipment is not designed or installed in a manner fit for purpose, these lifts are like so many QR projects carried out on the one buttock principle, do it on the cheap and hope it works long enough for the commissioning and looks pretty rather than be functional and reliable, and yes all equipment requires maintenance and yes there will always be mechanical failures but the scheduled maintenance can be carried out overnight instead of during the day when it is required to be avaliable for use.
Any more apologies and excuses that anyone would care to make about the lifts and escalators that were built on the cheap and have been so poorly designed so that they are not fit for purpose and reliable operation then poorly maintained with ongoing band aid repairs please make your posts rembering the initial costs of the instalation of this equipment and the ongoing costs of "maintaining" it and the effects on the members of the public who rely on this equipment to get around.