2013 Fares

[SurfRail]

^ It would certainly make it easier to roll out go card to the Tweed, especially at this time of year.

[ozbob]

The go card system does have some limitations as it is.  I am not absolutely sure about the location based off peak being able to be implemented, but my understanding is that it could.  The issue becomes one of programming complexity and the cost.

It is a worthwhile idea IMHO, particularly as there has been some mention of improvements in shoulder peak services etc.

The present go card contract is through to 2016?   This might be a kick start to some major system improvements.

[ozbob]

Just as an aside here.  I have heard that Victoria is looking at a 5% plus CPI fare increase from next year.  Like here, no public information has been made available yet, and I suspect trying to bury it over Christmas New Year ... 

[somebody]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/public-transport-fares-to-rise-again-20120606-1zwqp.html

[Jonno]

It dies not have to be as dense or as tall but certainly higher density than our current sprawl with high quality urban design and place making.

[ozbob]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/public-transport-fares-to-rise-again-20120606-1zwqp.html

The Victorian Government has still not actually indicated how much and when ...

[ozbob]

I wonder if the SEEQ cards will increase in cost in line with a 7.5% increase in fares?

[somebody]

I wonder if the SEEQ cards will increase in cost in line with a 7.5% increase in fares?

Be surprised if they went up, they're already quite expensive.

[ozbob]

Now up ..

Fares and ticketing for 2013

http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/fares/changes-to-fares-and-ticketing-in-2013

[somebody]

Hmm, unflinching.

It's going to be interesting to watch the reaction.

[ozbob]

http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/fares/changes-to-fares-and-ticketing-in-2013

Fare table 2013  from 7th January 2013

[#Metro]

Melbourne has also announced a 7% increase. But their bus network is cr*p!

[kazzac]

a 2 zone fare  next year will cost $38.50 a week for someone commuting to/from work 5 days a week or will the 9 trips than free system still be in place?

[ozbob]

Yes, after nine paid journeys Mon - Sun period travel is free ..

[SurfRail]

Melbourne has also announced a 7% increase. But their bus network is cr*p!

In many respects it is better than ours - they just don't have stellar examples like the BUZ routes in large volume (because they have trams instead), just isolated things like the uni expresses (401, 601) and the Smartbuses (which are inferior knock-off BUZ routes without the busway-grade priority or involve 100km services end to end).  Lots of services run much later in the evening than up here, especially outside the range of the tram network.

[ozbob]

From the Queensland Times click here!

Commuters say they're sick of fare increases

Commuters say they're sick of fare increases

    Kieran Banks
    14th Dec 2012 3:00 AM

IPSWICH public transport users have called for a ticket price cut as the Newman Government goes ahead with a fare hike in the new year.

Public transport advocacy group Rail Back on Track released the results of its annual passenger survey, with fare affordability the pressing issue on most commuters' minds.

Of the surveyed 315 respondents, 69% rated Translink's fares as expensive.

Translink fares are set to rise by 7.5% in January, half of the original hike planned by the previous Labor Government.

Spokesman Robert Dow said over the past five years, fares under the Labor and LNP governments had increased 72.5%.

Mr Dow is calling for the government to order a fare review, and has just under 600 signatures on a petition to back his push.

"What it shows is that fare affordability has worsened in the last year going against what both governments have been saying," he said.

"The government needs to encourage a fare structure that gets commuters on to the public transport system."

A spokesperson for the Minister for Transport and Main Roads Scott Emerson said the LNP would deliver the fare policy it took to the election.

"We are committed to improving affordability after it hit its lowest point ever in the final months under Labor," the spokesman said.

"This $200 million investment over four years will provide free travel after nine weekly journeys, introduced in June, and halve Labor's 15% fare hikes in 2013 and 2014.

"When compared to the scheduled hikes, the LNP policies will save a regular commuter travelling two zones about $115 a year or $216 a year for a regular commuter from Ipswich to Brisbane."

The spokesman said while the Newman Government would like to do more in terms of fare relief, their priority would be to improve the state's finances.

TRACK FACTS

    53% rated travelling by rail as satisfactory or better.
    36.5% said rail frequency poor or worse.
    More than 60% of respondents said the Go Card system was satisfactory or better.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

14th December 2012

More fare increases - failure looms

Greetings,

There is serious fare delusion in George St.  Increasing fares by 7.5%, on top of the previous 65% over the last four years IS NOT making fares more affordable.

The spin responses by the Government in the article below are nonsense.

The fact is the fare structure is failing, as evidenced by the increasing public subsidy and falling patronage.  Attempts to 'buy' patronage with initially the 'ten and free' and mid year the ' nine and free' has failed.  What is needed is to completely recast the fare table so that patronage growth ensues around the clock and in so doing actually improve the fare box.  What is going to happen from here is further patronage losses as many people cannot affordably access public transport.

The LNP Government is lazy, they have failed to really address the key issue identified by TransLink in the 2011/12 Annual Report - Affordability.

A fare review is essential. -->  http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fare-review-for-translink-south-east-queensland-now.html

From the Queensland Times click here!

Commuters say they're sick of fare increases

Commuters say they're sick of fare increases

    Kieran Banks
    14th Dec 2012 3:00 AM

IPSWICH public transport users have called for a ticket price cut as the Newman Government goes ahead with a fare hike in the new year.

Public transport advocacy group Rail Back on Track released the results of its annual passenger survey, with fare affordability the pressing issue on most commuters' minds.

Of the surveyed 315 respondents, 69% rated Translink's fares as expensive.

Translink fares are set to rise by 7.5% in January, half of the original hike planned by the previous Labor Government.

Spokesman Robert Dow said over the past five years, fares under the Labor and LNP governments had increased 72.5%.

Mr Dow is calling for the government to order a fare review, and has just under 600 signatures on a petition to back his push.

"What it shows is that fare affordability has worsened in the last year going against what both governments have been saying," he said.

"The government needs to encourage a fare structure that gets commuters on to the public transport system."

A spokesperson for the Minister for Transport and Main Roads Scott Emerson said the LNP would deliver the fare policy it took to the election.

"We are committed to improving affordability after it hit its lowest point ever in the final months under Labor," the spokesman said.

"This $200 million investment over four years will provide free travel after nine weekly journeys, introduced in June, and halve Labor's 15% fare hikes in 2013 and 2014.

"When compared to the scheduled hikes, the LNP policies will save a regular commuter travelling two zones about $115 a year or $216 a year for a regular commuter from Ipswich to Brisbane."

The spokesman said while the Newman Government would like to do more in terms of fare relief, their priority would be to improve the state's finances.

TRACK FACTS

    53% rated travelling by rail as satisfactory or better.
    36.5% said rail frequency poor or worse.
    More than 60% of respondents said the Go Card system was satisfactory or better.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[BrizCommuter]

There will another world fare comparison coming in the next few weeks from BrizCommuter. Watch this space.

[ozbob]

There will another world fare comparison coming in the next few weeks from BrizCommuter. Watch this space.

[Jonno]

LNP's approach to improving State finances is to drive more people off public transport and onto our roads thus costing us more in the long run.  Thanks for that!

[kazzac]

Not Happy  > .When I first started using PT to travel to/from work the cost of a 2 zone fare was only $3.11!

[Fares_Fair]

There will another world fare comparison coming in the next few weeks from BrizCommuter. Watch this space.

Insert emoticon of a person with binoculars here ... 

[Set in train]

From the Queensland Times click here!

Commuters say they're sick of fare increases

Commuters say they're sick of fare increases

    Kieran Banks
    14th Dec 2012 3:00 AM

Great article, congrats on mention of survey, special commendation to the great comment in reply to the article:

trained from North Ipswich

11 hours ago Report post

Actual comparison of fares at the present time, a trip of 172 km from Brisbane to Gympie North one way is $19.45 using the Go card and $28.30 for a one way paper ticket.

This is compared with a Bathurst to Sydney return journey of 480 km for $11.40 making the Translink fare over 300% greater per km than the City Train fares in NSW.

In New South Wales the intention is to draw as many passengers from private transport with frequent services and lower fares while here in Queensland it is the obvious intent to make public transport fares unafordable and force commuters to use other means of transport.

The service frequencies for rail services are the lowest in Australia for comperable routes and distances which coupled with the highest fares in this country explains why the road systen can not cope and the Government now intends to increase fares by a further 7.5% making public transport even more unaffordable.

[#Metro]

Long distance commuters want cheaper fares (and thus by implication, short distance fares go up)
Short distance commuters want cheaper fares  (and thus by implication, long distance fares go up)
Regular users want a discount (makes rare users pay more)
Rare users want a discount
Children and adults want a discount
Taxpayers want to pay less subsidy
Passengers want to pay less fares


See a problem? I do.
Everyone wants more at the expense of everyone else.

Daily automatic caps like in Melbourne may be the way to go.

* Thought Experiment *

Note: I am not proposing we switch to this, just exploring in this post...

Are fares "too expensive". Hard to say, but I think a good guide is to perhaps look at the difference in travel times. We can postulate as an axiom that people don't care about mode; and instead say that their willingness to pay is based on speed and frequency. Public transport, after taking into account waiting times, takes about 1.5 to 2x longer than direct by car. So let's make a model.

Our friends at the RACQ have prepped a table for this http://www.racq.com.au/motoring/cars/car_economy/vehicle_running_costs

Vehicle running costs for a Holden Commodore are about 15 cents per kilometre. I don't look at sunk costs such as vehicle purchase etc because people don't factor those in psychologically when deciding to make an additional trip. So a trip to the Gold Coast to Brisbane would cost $12 by car.

A car might take one hour, and the train (after all the connections, waiting etc) might take 1.5 hours.

Let's look at the average speed ratio:

1 hour by car / 1.5 hours by PT = 0.66 

Under the simple time-value model proposed, $12 x 0.66 = $7.92 --- the "right" fare level (under this theory) where PT is discounted because it is SLOWER. Note that car vs PT is treated evenhandedly - there isn't a discount to encourage anyone either way- purely based on equivalent time costs.

A trip to the Gold Coast (Zone 14) from Brisbane by GoCard is about $11.00.

Overpricing = $11-$7.92 =$3.08. Now ($3.08 / $11) x 100 = 28% "overpriced".

The neat thing about this simple pricing model to measure how overpriced something is, is that during peak hour, cars and PT journey times would probably be about the same (cars stuck in congestion, PT having to make stops) which suggests higher prices during peak. It also suggests that the cr%pper the service quality, the less you should pay. Which is also neat because when you think of all those hourly super-slow community service obligation routes, the model suggests that they be heavily discounted, which co-incidentally would be in line with community welfare objectives.

A side effect would be that half hourly trains (except frequent lines like FG) would also be cheaper than buses simply because they take longer to take you anywhere. This neatly explains why train users are so infuriated by the fare rises - fares go up, but the frequency doesn't follow, so they disproportionately experience a huge drop in value for money relative to bus users (who at least have the BUZ and a decent BUZ network to connect to).

[#Metro]

* Thought Experiment *


Hmmm, I wonder what the theory predicts for what Sunshine Coast users should pay given not just the distance, but also the quality of service...



Using Google Directions, Central Station to Sunshine Coast (Maroochydore Plaza)

By Car

1 hour 20 minutes = 80 minutes

104 km x 0.15 cents / km = $15.60


By Public Transport (assume no waiting time as for long distances, waiting time will be a low % of total journey time)

2 hours 49 minutes = 169 minutes


Ratio:

80/169 = ~ 50%

$15.60 / 2 = $7.80 <--- does this "feel" about right?

Even if we throw in $15 of parking fees, that makes ~ $30 then divide by 2 = ~ $15 but adding this is disputable; many workplaces offer free parking...

[#Metro]

Extending the thought experiment to inner city routes


* Thought Experiment *

West End-New Farm Park

Car

9 km x 0.15 = $1.35 , 26 minutes

Bus

43 minutes on 199/walk included


Ratio
26/40 = 0.65

$1.35 x 0.65 = 0.87 cents round up to $1. <--- One dollar trips!!

Overpricing

$3.05 - 1.00 = 2.05/3.05 = 67% "overpriced"


I'd be a little cautious with the theory, because if demand rises to high levels, prices would also rise as well and we can't ignore that, and I've only assumed time is the main determinant, at least from the passengers' perspective. But in the real world, you'd up the fares to spread the demand...

However it does suggest that longer distance trips are closer to being priced "right" and shorter trips cost waaaaaaay too much...

[ozbob]

However it does suggest that longer distance trips are closer to being priced "right" and shorter trips cost waaaaaaay too much...

Agree in principle.  As an interim measure that is why we have suggested take say $1.50 of all zones peak adult (rest than adjusted on that basis).

Bring back 50% fares after x journeys.

Extend concession fares to all health care card holders.

Fix up pension fares, just do what Adelaide and Perth do.

Do something for adults with children as smallish groups.

=============

Warning:  Personal opinion only.

The reason why the fare path has gone off the rails in SEQ (rest of Queensland has much better balanced fares) is fundamentally because when the go card system was introduced, they opted for minimum ticket options (limited modules).  This means that they have limited options and is costly to make improvements.  A serious blunder right from day one ..  As the polyticks started to go bad, desperation started to set in, what can we do? Can't do daily caps ... Hey about free travel after x journeys, we can do that on the system, and as they say the rest is history, sadly.

The authorities need to go back to square one, a proper fare review independent of current limitations on the go card, and just do it from there.
There must be a lot of internal guilt, that they have hoodwinked the public so ...  not me Noddy.

I am not to concerned with the specifics at this stage rather the principle of getting sorted for the future.

In the interim, under the present go card constraints they can do what we have suggested elsewhere.

[Jonno]

Every person using public or active transport is saving us money in construction costs, congestion, health, road trauma, quality of life and retail productivity. Road users think they pay full cost but in fact it is more subsidies than public transport. Prices should be based on getting as many people using public transport as possible.  Not free but not what we have today/tomorrow.

I am happy to pay more for short trips to subsidies longer trips if it means less people on our roads.

[somebody]

Warning:  Personal opinion only.

The reason why the fare path has gone off the rails in SEQ (rest of Queensland has much better balanced fares) is fundamentally because when the go card system was introduced, they opted for minimum ticket options (limited modules).  This means that they have limited options and is costly to make improvements.  A serious blunder right from day one ..  As the polyticks started to go bad, desperation started to set in, what can we do? Can't do daily caps ... Hey about free travel after x journeys, we can do that on the system, and as they say the rest is history, sadly.

I never understood what the big problem with 10 journeys then 50% discount was.  Yes, it could be exploited by the odd Coast commuter, but even that was only a few dollars per week of leakage.  All fare structures have limitations.

[ozbob]

"Public transport is too expensive .... "

Assistant Minister for Public Transport, quoted the Brisbane mX 11th December 2012 page 6

TransLink Annual report :  Affordability a key issue

http://translink.com.au/resources/about-translink/reporting-and-publications/2011-12-annual-report.pdf

Focus on affordability
TransLink's customer satisfaction survey for January to March 2012 showed
our customers' satisfaction with public transport affordability had dropped
to its lowest ever rating. Affordability satisfaction for train passengers for the
period dropped to 45 — the first time this measure had ever dropped below
50. Affordability satisfaction for bus and ferry passengers reflected similar
levels of dissatisfaction, dropping to 51 (from 57 the previous quarter) and
53 (from 61 the previous quarter) respectively. Recognising the increasing
dissatisfaction among customers has set in train a string of new policies
to target affordability.

Public:  Fares too dear --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=9243.0

Not rocket science, is it .. Can someone please make the first move??


========================


Evaluating Public Transit Benefits and Costs
Best Practices Guidebook
10 December 2012

http://www.vtpi.org/tranben.pdf

[somebody]

But that is nothing at all to do with the 10 journeys then 50% discount structure.  Just the fare level.

[ozbob]

But that is nothing at all to do with the 10 journeys then 50% discount structure.  Just the fare level.

Didn't say it did ....

How ever, under the existing go card constraints, the 50% after X journeys is far preferable I agree.  This allows the other things to be done whilst they undertake a broader review.

Everyone acknowledges the fare path is shot, but they continue along it like lemmings ...

[somebody]

But that is nothing at all to do with the 10 journeys then 50% discount structure.  Just the fare level.

Didn't say it did ....

Oh, I thought you were replying to me.

I'm confused about the relevance of the 130 page VPTI document.

[ozbob]

Reinforces the cost benefits of public transport ...  adds further weight to a fare review.

[ozbob]

http://www.natrem.com.au/inflation/index.html

Australian Consumer Price Index.

[somebody]

But what is the case for going beyond:
a) 10 journeys then 50% discount
b) off peak % and times tinkering
c) mode zone anomalies
d) fare level reviews

[SurfRail]

I don't even see the need for the discount.  Just make all travel cheaper.  The vast majority of people derive no benefit from 10 then free.

[somebody]

I don't even see the need for the discount.  Just make all travel cheaper.  The vast majority of people derive no benefit from 10 then free.

You mean the frequent user discount?

I'd want a 50% off peak discount if that was done.

[Stillwater]

lol, just contemplating the prospect of travelling 'Simon class'

[SurfRail]

I don't even see the need for the discount.  Just make all travel cheaper.  The vast majority of people derive no benefit from 10 then free.

You mean the frequent user discount?

I'd want a 50% off peak discount if that was done.

Sounds good to me.  Plenty of air to squeeze out and not enough bottoms on seats because price is very much a factor.