Article: Disgraceful public transport forces workers to leave Coast

[ozbob]

From the Sunshine Coast Daily click here!

Disgraceful public transport forces workers to leave Coast

Disgraceful public transport forces workers to leave Coast
Janine Hill 23rd Nov 2012 5:54 AM

SUNSHINE Coast workers have moved to Brisbane, quit their jobs and looked for new ones as they battle  expensive and unreliable public transport.

Angry Coast-based city workers fed up with the rail commute have been forced to change their lifestyles just to live.

One resigned her Brisbane job, and another left her home and moved to the city. Both had been trying for years to make commuting by rail work, but could not.

Another woman, faced with spiralling rail costs after nine years using the train, has started to car pool to work in the city.

Caloundra's  Tina Sturtridge resigned from her Brisbane job in February after commuting from Landsborough to Central for five years. It cost her $300 a fortnight in fares and petrol.

A 15% fare increase this year, on top of the daily toll of five to six hours travelling, prompted her to give it away.

"I was looking for a job on the Coast for a while and then I couldn't stand it any more, the delays and the price," Ms Sturtridge said.

She now works at Beerwah, a 15-20 minute drive from her home.

"My yearly income is less but by the time I take out what it was costing me to go to work, there isn't a great deal of difference," she said.

Jessie Hinds moved to Brisbane this year after three years of commuting from Glasshouse Mountains.

"It just wasn't worth it. In the end, I was paying $100 a week and it was supposed to be a two-and-a-half hour trip," she said.

"I will never get the train again."

Toni Carroll, of the Glasshouse Mountains, has switched to car pooling after nine years of catching the train to Brisbane.

"It got worse all the time," she said.

Ms Carroll said fare increases combined with timetable changes that did away with some peak hour express services prompted her to give up train travel.

Commuter advocate Jeff Addison said he knew of other commuters who had surrendered Brisbane-based jobs for lesser paid ones on the Coast because they could not handle the time and cost of commuting by rail.

Mr Addison has been lobbying the government to duplicate the North Coast line to improve services but said the Newman government was yet to make it a priority.

[ozbob]

Utter shambles .... 

[Gazza]

Well, it does debunk the myth that people can't just get jobs closer to home, or get a place in Brisbane.

[ozbob]

I don't think it debunks myths as such, but some people have choices.

But we all can't live at West End ...

[Gazza]

True, but at the same time the BCC area can hold a lot and you certainly don't have to commute 6h a day anywhere in the BCC.
Or from Goodna even

[somebody]

Doesn't seem like the worst outcome to me - people living closer to where they work.  I know of someone from the Gold Coast that left their Brisbane job for the same reason.

[Stillwater]

Gympie, Nambour, Landsborough, Yandina, Beerwah, Cooroy are all employment generators with sizeable industrial estates.  People should not look at the rail transport issue merely as workers travelling back and forth to Brisbane each day.  Nambour is a major retail and health hub, and transfer station for buses to the rest of the SC.  To argue, as some do, that a solution to the problems on the SCL is for coast workers all to move to Chermside, or wherever, fails to understand the various reasons for travel by many people on the SCL.

[Arnz]

Most SC bus commuters use Landsborough as a transfer point (direct to University, Maroochydore via Mooloolaba, Kawana via Caloundra, etc) , with Nambour the other point of transfer for bus commuters continuing further north (Route 630/631 covers most stations to Cooroy on the way to Noosa) and the Hinterland Connect service.

A lot of people tend to forget that there are students that travel in the counter-peak direction each morning to University during the University semesters, and outside the operating times of the University Shuttle buses (operated by Sunbus) to Gympie, Noosa and North Lakes via Caboolture (arrival at 8:50am and depart at 5pm).  The morning 615s are well patronised with University students coming in from Caboolture to North Lakes areas, on top of the students using the shuttle bus service.

Speaking of things, I also know of folks either cutting back on hours and/or getting (2nd) jobs closer to home.  This is despite the Q1 Passenger Load Peak Hour survey listing the Nambour line as slow growth at 959 boardings/1070 alightings.  I would be interested to know what the loadings for Yandina-Gympie North are, as those stations are generally not counted in the Nambour line survey statistics.

[ozbob]

The Sunshine Coast is as worthy of a decent public transport network as any other well populated centre.

When I set up this group, it was to support the community.  It matters little where they might live.  People have a right to choose that and circumstances are not the same for each of us.

Yes, very busy between Landsborough and SCU when I was there last Arnz.  Traffic jams around Sippy Downs too!

[Fares_Fair]

Most SC bus commuters use Landsborough as a transfer point (direct to University, Maroochydore via Mooloolaba, Kawana via Caloundra, etc) , with Nambour the other point of transfer for bus commuters continuing further north (Route 630/631 covers most stations to Cooroy on the way to Noosa) and the Hinterland Connect service.

A lot of people tend to forget that there are students that travel in the counter-peak direction each morning to University during the University semesters, and outside the operating times of the University Shuttle buses (operated by Sunbus) to Gympie, Noosa and North Lakes via Caboolture (arrival at 8:50am and depart at 5pm).  The morning 615s are well patronised with University students coming in from Caboolture to North Lakes areas, on top of the students using the shuttle bus service.

Speaking of things, I also know of folks either cutting back on hours and/or getting (2nd) jobs closer to home.  This is despite the Q1 Passenger Load Peak Hour survey listing the Nambour line as slow growth at 959 boardings/1070 alightings.  I would be interested to know what the loadings for Yandina-Gympie North are, as those stations are generally not counted in the Nambour line survey statistics.

Hello Arnz,

Thank you for the timely reminder.
I am guilty of that too.
I should try to rectify that publicly if/when I get the appropriate chance.

QR have mentioned to me the demand based scenario for the Sunshine Coast, there isn't the demand they say.

My response is this:

1. Given that we have a handful of half hourly trains in the early am, followed by a cavalcade of 13 rail buses [26 both ways] pretending to be trains up until 7pm in the evening (with a handful of trains interspersed) - it is no wonder the demand isn't there.

2. On top of that the regular reliability issues make it a recipe for non-use. Appointments not easily met unless you make it a day trip.

3. Sadly the car is so much quicker than a rail bus or indeed the train - unless a major highway accident/incident ensues.

4. Averaging around 55km/h doesn't promote demand for growth either.


Having said that I know Queensland Rail are doing all they can to improve our lot by upgrading signalling, and have plans to get things better.
Those improvements are extremely limited given the freight and other train services congestion.

IMO, IT HAS TO BE DUPLICATED TO GET REAL GROWTH ENHANCING IMPROVEMENTS.
I do appreciate the efforts of Queensland Rail, last night was a very good example.

[Fares_Fair]

The Sunshine Coast is as worthy of a decent public transport network as any other well populated centre.

When I set up this group, it was to support the community.  It matters little where they might live.  People have a right to choose that and circumstances are not the same for each of us.

Yes, very busy between Landsborough and SCU when I was there last Arnz.  Traffic jams around Sippy Downs too!

Thank you too, Robert.

[Fares_Fair]

Sunshine Coast Daily
Friday November 23, 2012
Headline: RAILROADED
by Janine Hill

Newspaper edition of story at top of post.

Front Page 

[Fares_Fair]

Sunshine Coast Daily
Friday November 23, 2012
Headline: Rail fare increase the last straw
by Janine Hill

Newspaper edition of story at top of post.

Page 2 

[Stillwater]

Just look at what the ALP has done to Sunshine Coast commuting, the LNP Government will say.  'We have a plan to fix it in 2031.'  Just how many years after the defeat of the last government can you blame it for all that is wrong in the world before being held accountable for your own inaction?

[Fares_Fair]

Just look at what the ALP has done to Sunshine Coast commuting, the LNP Government will say.  'We have a plan to fix it in 2031.'  Just how many years after the defeat of the last government can you blame it for all that is wrong in the world before being held accountable for your own inaction?

A. They will be held accountable before the next election.
I also expect funding for North Coast Line duplication (partial, say Mooloolah to Woombye) in the next budget due to be handed down in June 2013.
Ever hopeful 
3 years is long enough to turn things around economically given the Public Service cuts and infrastructure cuts.
If they can build a tower for politicians in the city (paid for by land trade offs and sales, they can show proper priority - being the well-being of voting constituents ahead of their own well-being. A city tower can wait - they have one now albeit in minor disrepair, rail duplication cannot wait, it's a basketcase already 

[Arnz]

One suggestion, what about Glasshouse to Landsborough AND Mooloolah to Palmwoods in one hit.  Leaving 2 crossovers (Beerburrum-Glasshouse) and Landsborough-Mooloolah.   

It's not the ultimate solution, but duplicating both mentioned sections does leave "large" crossings, with more than enough space for freighters and suburbans to cross, and at the same time allow longer freighters.

The Beeburrum-Glasshouse Mtns section still has some houses/farms in the way (which should really be sorted prior to any further construction).  At least they sorted out one property (as people can see after leaving Beerburrum) before construction was stopped in 2009.

[Gazza]

The Sunshine Coast is as worthy of a decent public transport network as any other well populated centre.

When I set up this group, it was to support the community.  It matters little where they might live.  People have a right to choose that and circumstances are not the same for each of us.

You have a right to choose where you live, but at the same time you have to realise there comes a point where it becomes difficult to provide you with PT...It might be because you live in a housing development down the bottom of a deep cul de sac, so difficult to get a frequent bus in, you might live in a a low density acreage area, you might live on an island in the middle of Moreton bay, or you might just be because of the tyranny of distance.

When you consider the fastest run to Nambour on the Gympielander still takes 2 hours there's no escaping a 4h comute each day (Not even counting if you need to get to the station via bus, or onwards to a final destination in Brisbane)
The duplication works will still knock some time off, but what, it's still going to be say a 3h commitment each day.

The issue is that the line passes through lots of little towns, and they all expect the train to stop there, which slows things down.

[SurfRail]

QR have mentioned to me the demand based scenario for the Sunshine Coast, there isn't the demand they say.

We need to find all the people who think this way, and do one of 2 things.

1. Get all "Clockwork Orange" on them - strap them to chairs, force their eyes open and expose them to proper public transport systems until they get it.

2. Sack them and replace them with people who know what they are talking about.

[#Metro]

What a massive c*ck-up! There is no proper train service to an ENTIRE REGION of SEQ! That is CRAZY!!
What kind of Government lets and entire region be disconnected and stew?

QR have mentioned to me the demand based scenario for the Sunshine Coast, there isn't the demand they say.

Gee whiz, what assumptions did they shove into the model? Slow and slower trains? Cancellations? Near-zero services? No actual spur to Caloundra? Constant signal and track failures? Increasing prices? Ancient rolling stock? Sounds like it to me!

This is how you run regional PT -->

GO Transit - regional trains, buses.
Onario also has VIVA BRT which is very distant from the Toronto City Centre, BRT feeds directly into the ends of the subway terminals.

Only in Queensland would whole regions be allowed to grow disconnected from the rest of the transport system
Only in Queensland is it allowed that main arterial rail bridge is allowed to reach capacity before anything can be done about it
Only in Queensland is it acceptable to have 30 minute train frequency
Only in Queensland do you build toll tunnel which goes bankrupt, and then a second one just to make sure that it really really really is uneconomic
Only in Queensland do you make up 'plans' (Connecting SEQ) that are many orders of magnitude expensive than reality that they are impossible to fund and thus construct
Only in Queensland does huge multi billions of dollars get spent on infrastructure, only to have them barely used because actual service upgrades weren't budgeted in.
Only in Queensland do you get plans for Maroon CityGliders which cost millions and add absolutely nothing new to the network

Where else but Queensland!

[Gazza]

QR have mentioned to me the demand based scenario for the Sunshine Coast, there isn't the demand they say.

We need to find all the people who think this way, and do one of 2 things.

1. Get all "Clockwork Orange" on them - strap them to chairs, force their eyes open and expose them to proper public transport systems until they get it.

2. Sack them and replace them with people who know what they are talking about.

I think the "no demand" argument is 50-50.

-Partly due to the crapness of the line/railbuses etc, which is the Governments fault.

-Partly due to the line being in a bad location (Especially compared to CAMCOS) and literally only going to a couple of places of interest along its entire length....Which would be an upper limit on demand in the long run, unless major growth is accepted in the towns along the line.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I think the patronage at the first two stations after Caboolture sums up that argument

Bloody oath the demand would be there if CAMCOS finally got off the ground.

[Jonno]

The demand is there because the trips are being made mostly by car!! What is not there is an approach aimed at getting 3/4 of trips by active or public transport! 

[Stillwater]

lol ... you have gotta love the logic of a Translink spokesperson who argues that SCL rail patronage growth is poor when that assessment is made on the basis of people being forced to catch buses that masquerade as trains and take half as long again to make the journey that a train takes at an average speed of 55 km/hr.

Sunshine Coast Daily Editorial, Saturday, November 24, 2012:

"Public transport on the Sunshine Coast is an embarrassment.  No-one on the Coast could have any illusions.  The reality is that public transport - by rail and road - is worse than some so-called Third World countries.

"Coast public transport is the anthesis of a well-oiled, affordable, well-planned machine.  The sad irony is that to use it, you need time and money.  Certainly, a worker who cannot get to work on time consistently because of poor public transport will not have the job long enough in these tough times.  Thet either means finding another job, leaving home or buying a car.

"The fact is, poor public transport is a key weakness in the Coast struggling economy, and will continue to be in future.  For mot, to do business on the Coast, you need a car.  To work on the Coast, you need a car.  In short, to live on the Coast, you need a car.

"And, like a tumor, the problem will grow and worsen the longer it is left.  This is not the time for the LNP state government to cry poor.  We had years of stonewalling from the Bligh government.

"The fact remains that while infrastructure is expensive, it is an asset.  Making Sunshine Coast public transport a workable, user-friendly proposition would not be a waste of money."

[Gazza]

The demand is there because the trips are being made mostly by car!! What is not there is an approach aimed at getting 3/4 of trips by active or public transport!

But are you gonna get 3/4 of travel by active/pt in a place like this:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/4731/activept.jpg

[ozbob]

Local obviously not in less settled areas, but interurban, a lot more if the services were available.

[somebody]

But are you gonna get 3/4 of travel by active/pt in a place like this:

My thoughts exactly, actually.

[Jonno]

But are you gonna get 3/4 of travel by active/pt in a place like this:

My thoughts exactly, actually.

There are plenty of examples (Zurick and surrounds for one) that have achieved high levels in rural environments.  Lot of active for local but inter-urban trips are made by public transport.

The point is if we assume a low % then there is no need for frequent services to be provided and then no-one catches it. Not because they don't want to but because it is inconvienient.  Self-fulling really.     

[Gazza]

But Zurich has a form much more suited to PT than the area around the SC line.
Zurich has more dense development (Everyone knows what european towns are like) in interconnected/close villages, which are sandwiched between hills and mountains which lack any development or PT. And of course a valley implies linearity, so they are easy to serve with a line running down the middle. The furthest stations in the ZVV area are only about 30km or so on average from Zurich HBF as far as i can see.

The SC on the other hand just has people scattered everwhere, lots on acreages. Lots of other small towns further away from the SC line (Woodford etc ) That don't have much to them at all.

[#Metro]

If you want demand, obviously the train has to go to the demand - build that spur to Caloundra so it can access the bus network properly there.

[Fares_Fair]

Not too efficient if you live at the northern end of the Sunshine Coast.
Much better to have the rail run through to Nambour with bus services from coastal towns to stations along the way (east west travel) - shorter bus distances means less time lost in transit.
Best to be tree branches into an existing (but duplicated) trunk main - where east west travel can expand as demand grows without creating an accumulated congestion point via a Caloundra entry/exit point.
This would mean better demand for better (more efficient) services.

Of course the main financial advantage is freight improvements to an already congested line.
Passenger improvements amount to 'collateral' advantage.

[Gazza]

I'd see if you could stretch the period after it opens even further, say 10 years.

[#Metro]

Sunshine Coast Council needs to put up some funding, even if it is token. Look Moreton Bay got their rail line before SC does and there are fewer people in Moreton Bay than the SC. SCC might not see PT as its responsibility, and maybe not rail, but a link will pay its way eventually in terms of benefits. Plus BCC pours a huge sum into local BNE buses. The cheapest thing is to do the duplication and build a single station off a spur at Caloundra. This will allow bus to connect much faster and you can design the line to do 130-140 km per hour on the run into Caloundra.

[#Metro]

http://caloundra-journal.whereilive.com.au/news/story/55-million-on-planning-and-what-have-we-gotr/

[Jonno]

But are you gonna get 3/4 of travel by active/pt in a place like this:

My thoughts exactly, actually.

There are plenty of examples (Zurick and surrounds for one) that have achieved high levels in rural environments.  Lot of active for local but inter-urban trips are made by public transport.

The point is if we assume a low % then there is no need for frequent services to be provided and then no-one catches it. Not because they don't want to but because it is inconvienient.  Self-fulling really.   

Hi Johno
I don't think you could have picked a worse example
Zurich
Population (Metro) -  376,008 (Dec 2011)
Density-  4,092 /km2 (10,599 /sq mi)
Area - 87.88 km2 (33.93 sq mi), greater population 1.8m

Brisbane CC - 1400km2
Density - 900/km2

Sunny Coast stations, park'n'ride with bus interchange (at some stations) and 30min timetable will do them nicely for many many years to come. Ok, and a few bike racks for those close to the station and a safe path/bike track to the nearest development if within 1km away.

I was highlighting the rural areas around Zurich. Not Zurich itself. 

Either way the point is the trips are being made regularly enough to make services work. The trips are there. What is not there is the PT. The trips are being made.  The trips are clogging the roads right now! The concept that there are not enough trips for PT is based on flawed logic.     

Our current planning approach use a "maximum PT %" based on no empirical evidence what so ever but rather the % usually achieved when the minimum service levels are provided.  This allows the Govt to provide (here is the big surprise) the minimum level of service. This is called input planning.

What we need is Outcome planning.  What % of trips that are and will be made do we want to be by active & PT.  The we design a system to support that.

If we always assume we can only get low % of trips by PT, then provide servide based on that, provide road and parrking spaces to support the rest by car then  we guarentee that the low % is all we achieve and as soon as the public demand more the purse is empty as we spent it all on roads.  Want proof?  Listen to the Traffic report on any TV or Radio.  We have planned and delivered the worst outcome possible whilst at the same time lamenting why there is so much congestion.  The reason is "YOU PLANNED IT THAT WAY"

 

[SurfRail]

Sunshine Coast Council needs to put up some funding, even if it is token. Look Moreton Bay got their rail line before SC does and there are fewer people in Moreton Bay than the SC. SCC might not see PT as its responsibility, and maybe not rail, but a link will pay its way eventually in terms of benefits. Plus BCC pours a huge sum into local BNE buses. The cheapest thing is to do the duplication and build a single station off a spur at Caloundra. This will allow bus to connect much faster and you can design the line to do 130-140 km per hour on the run into Caloundra.

The possible realignment through the Caloundra Aerodrome site is no longer available, so it would just be CAMCOS as previously designed but no further than Caloundra initially.  That would give you 3 stations - the original Caloundra and Pelican Waters stations, plus a new Caloundra South site.  Even this would create massive benefits.

Knowing the way we do things in Qld, it would probably be broken into 3 stages - Caloundra, Kawana or Parreara, and then Maroochydore.

I do tend to agree that the bigger problem is the freight.  If you get the existing line performing as far as say Cooroy, that will get rid of a lot of the agita from current commuters and the freight benefits will pay for the upgrade in the long run.  Obviously we want both but I would prefer the money be spent initially on fixing the NCL, because local travel demand can be met with better buses in the short-term - no chance of that for intermodal freight.

Long term I'd like to see duplicated track all the way to say Maryborough, and then progressively further north as justified.

[Old Northern Road]

Sunshine Coast isn't an outer suburb of Brisbane. I believe I read somewhere that only around 5% of the population of the Sunshine Coast work in Brisbane (compared to over 50% in Moreton Bay Regional Council). I don't think you can expect the people of the Sunshine Coast to pay for a train line that 95% of the population aren't ever going to use. My brother lives on the Sunshine Coast (at Maroochydore) and I doubt he's even aware that there are train services to Brisbane. Money would be better spent improving the bus services which would benefit everyone.

[Old Northern Road]

Sunshine Coast Council needs to put up some funding, even if it is token. Look Moreton Bay got their rail line before SC does and there are fewer people in Moreton Bay than the SC. SCC might not see PT as its responsibility, and maybe not rail, but a link will pay its way eventually in terms of benefits. Plus BCC pours a huge sum into local BNE buses. The cheapest thing is to do the duplication and build a single station off a spur at Caloundra. This will allow bus to connect much faster and you can design the line to do 130-140 km per hour on the run into Caloundra.

Wrong. Moreton Bay Regional Council has a larger population than the Sunshine Coast (389,684 vs 330,934) and will experience much higher levels of growth. More importantly over 50% of MBRC work in Brisbane while only around 5% of Sunshine Coast work in Brisbane. The Redcliffe peninsula also has a higher density than any suburb on the Sunshine Coast. I really hope you're not trying to suggest the Sunshine Coast deserves a train line ahead of Redcliffe as these poor people have been waiting nearly 120 years for this line to be built.

[Arnz]

You might have a point regarding population statistics, and considering the MBRL is looking likely to go ahead after all those years, the NCL duplication has a stronger case of most other projects (including CAMCOS, but behind CRR) based purely on freight and increased revenue into the state (from track access) alone.  If the LNP wants to rave on about their debt, and how they want to "get it down", they are missing a opportunity here by duplicating parts of the NCL.   

Sure the primarily benefit would be freight and the private operators that haul them (Pacific National and Aurizon (formerly QRNational)), though benefits will be passed down to passenger services through increased capacity, along with improved bus services once it is fully realised.  Other advantages such as less trucks on the road would go a long way to reducing road maintenance costs.

Apart from that, politics wise - there really aren't any alternatives, the ALP and LNP are as bad as each other on transport issues, and KAP isn't much better either by blatantly supporting roads ahead of other modes.

[SurfRail]

Most of the Moreton Bay region already has reasonable access to rail via the Caboolture line, so the comparison is wonky.  MBRL is really only for the Anzac Ave and Redcliffe catchment which is off the grid.

The Sunshine Coast line is for an entire region, and ultimately for the entire network given the passing loops issue restricting train lengths.

[somebody]

You might have a point regarding population statistics, and considering the MBRL is looking likely to go ahead after all those years, the NCL duplication has a stronger case of most other projects (including CAMCOS, but behind CRR) based purely on freight and increased revenue into the state (from track access) alone.  If the LNP wants to rave on about their debt, and how they want to "get it down", they are missing a opportunity here by duplicating parts of the NCL.   

Sure the primarily benefit would be freight and the private operators that haul them (Pacific National and Aurizon (formerly QRNational)), though benefits will be passed down to passenger services through increased capacity, along with improved bus services once it is fully realised.  Other advantages such as less trucks on the road would go a long way to reducing road maintenance costs.

Apart from that, politics wise - there really aren't any alternatives, the ALP and LNP are as bad as each other on transport issues, and KAP isn't much better either by blatantly supporting roads ahead of other modes.

I'm sure most of the business case hangs on reduced road use rather than track access fees.