Article: Outcry over railway disabled access

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Outcry over railway disabled access

[somebody]

e.g. Taringa has little point in getting disabled access.  Just use a bus.

@Sherwood the GCL and 104/105/108 bus services are reasonably near if infrequent.  Don't these help at all?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Bindha is a good example. That place will be closed down rather than converted to DDA complience. They don't even serve it with rail buses. If you want to get there during a track closure you have to inform station staff who will call a taxi for you. Nudgee would be left as is so people have to cross the tracks otherwise that's going to be a huge expense for installing elevators for a cross over. Wouldn't suprise me to see more Boondall type bridges. Its DDA complient but they are still a bitch to use if your in a wheelchair.

[SurfRail]

e.g. Taringa has little point in getting disabled access.  Just use a bus.

@Sherwood the GCL and 104/105/108 bus services are reasonably near if infrequent.  Don't these help at all?

How do these help somebody coming from somewhere other than Brisbane?

[somebody]

e.g. Taringa has little point in getting disabled access.  Just use a bus.

@Sherwood the GCL and 104/105/108 bus services are reasonably near if infrequent.  Don't these help at all?

How do these help somebody coming from somewhere other than Brisbane?

You are able to interchange.  Toowong has disabled access.

[SurfRail]

I don't understand what the particular issue is with Taringa anyway.  Just close it, demolish the platforms, realign the tracks and put in a single proper platform between the up and down subs.  Repeat over time for Auchenflower, Chelmer, Graceville and Sherwood, and gradually upgrade the platforms at Milton, Auchenflower, Toowong, Corinda, Oxley and (yes) Darra.

They need to commit to about 3 major upgrades a year or so to keep things moving.

[somebody]

I don't understand what the particular issue is with Taringa anyway.  Just close it, demolish the platforms, realign the tracks and put in a single proper platform between the up and down subs.  Repeat over time for Auchenflower, Chelmer, Graceville and Sherwood, and gradually upgrade the platforms at Milton, Auchenflower, Toowong, Corinda, Oxley and (yes) Darra.

They need to commit to about 3 major upgrades a year or so to keep things moving.

I cannot agree with spending $1 on disabled access at Taringa.

Bindha is a good example. That place will be closed down rather than converted to DDA complience. They don't even serve it with rail buses. If you want to get there during a track closure you have to inform station staff who will call a taxi for you. Nudgee would be left as is so people have to cross the tracks otherwise that's going to be a huge expense for installing elevators for a cross over. Wouldn't suprise me to see more Boondall type bridges. Its DDA complient but they are still a bitch to use if your in a wheelchair.

And this is last thing we want, short sighted stupidity forcing 100% compliance and achieved through station closures. Has to be 70:30, 80:20, 90:10 or similar rule.

Bindha has something like 10 passengers per day.  Better to close it and speed up the Shorncliffe line.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Might aswell say the same for the whole rosewood line then

[#Metro]

And this is last thing we want, short sighted stupidity forcing 100% compliance and achieved through station closures. Has to be 70:30, 80:20, 90:10 or similar rule.

I think some stations should be closed. People will scream but the stations are spaced too closely anyway. It is shocking that a bus on a road with traffic and traffic lights can be just as fast or faster than the train which has *none* of these.

CUT!!

[ozbob]

http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2012/10/limited-wheelchair-access-at-train-stations.html

[#Metro]

Don't just ask people who use the station - ask everyone else on the Shorncliffe line as well. I'm sure the response will be they would like extra speed...

Same with bus stops. Route 196 still has joke stop spacing.

[Gazza]

e.g. Taringa has little point in getting disabled access.  Just use a bus.

@Sherwood the GCL and 104/105/108 bus services are reasonably near if infrequent.  Don't these help at all?

Why is it acceptable to give these people a double whammy of less frequent services (No TUZ for these people!) and a slower trip with the interchange (Akin to the inconvenience using a railbus during track works) they'd Have to do. The whole point is not to discriminate in this manner.

Taringa warrants compliance eventually. ...Coles is being built and TODs are proposed so its going to have its own little ecosystem of usage in a few years.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Might aswell say the same for the whole rosewood line then

Bindha is a bit more than 10, closer to 20, which makes it around 135/138 on the peak flow usage, but its counter peak flow usage is much higher raising it to 80-90 mark.

Obviously each station with low numbers needs to be treated as case by case basis. But it would be worth interviewing the small number of regular users and asking them where they are actually headed to/from and how would station closure affect them and what TL could do to minimise the impact. With 3 stations within a 750m circle of Bindha, there maybe options with only limited extra walk distance. I assume most of the counter peak are for Golden Circle. Assuming most of these people arrive/leave at a similar time. Perhaps QR/TL could strike a deal with GC to run a maxi taxi for these people to save the significant cost of about 50 trains a day stopping/starting at the station plus ongoing maintanence costs.

Perhaps a potential closure plan for Bindha could be presented to TL to show that this PT advocacy group is not just about improving rail services at any cost. By my cals, assuming no regen, it costs about $1.50 in energy to stop and restart the train x 520x per week = $780/wk ~ $40kpa + track and train wear and tear + cost of maintaining the station, Go-card etc.

I wouldn't rush into closing Bindha just yet. GC upgraded access to the station for their staff earlier this year (following on from QR upgrading the entrance to the station from the left) and a few people that work in the nearby industrial complex use it. There's been talk of selling off the old industrial complex to the northwest. I doubt it would be for residential given its proxminity to the smelly factory across the tracks but a redeveloped industrial complex - similar to what's happen to the south west of the station. Given that its 150-200m to the south of houses a well lit walkway within the new complex/exixting area in the railway corridor it could open the station to those nearby to use.

[ozbob]

Twitter

ABC Radio Brisbane ‏@612brisbane

Response from @QueenslandRail now added to yesterday's wheelchair/pram access story - http://bit.ly/Tb7EQX

http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2012/10/limited-wheelchair-access-at-train-stations.html

[SurfRail]

I cannot agree with spending $1 on disabled access at Taringa.

I recall reading figures a while ago indicating that Taringa has the highest proportion of public transport usage of any Brisbane suburb.  I find it difficult to reconcile this with your position...

[somebody]

Don't the buses serve the need?  There's other stations which do not have nearly as good alternatives.

[mufreight]

Was Taringa supposed to have a full rebuild including DDA with the development of a TOD there?

[Golliwog]

Don't the buses serve the need?  There's other stations which do not have nearly as good alternatives.

Alternative transport may come into consideration for when the station is upgraded to DDA compliance. It should have nothing to do with if it does.

[SurfRail]

Don't the buses serve the need?  There's other stations which do not have nearly as good alternatives.

Pity if the bus doesn't go where you wanted.

Exactly - like anywhere south of Moggill Road.  It goes beyond the station itself - an accessible pathway there would open up the main drag of Taringa to the entire area adjacent to the railway (without large detours to the nearest underpass/bridge).

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> QR 'struggling' to complete wheelchair access

[somebody]

I would presume it will be done eventually for DDA compliance at Taringa.  I can't imagine Taringa-Ipswich or Taringa-Richlands is a common travel pattern, and even then you can interchange at Toowong which is only a one station backtrack.

Aren't there far bigger fish to fry for DDA?

[Gazza]

Don't the buses serve the need?  There's other stations which do not have nearly as good alternatives.

How???
Only inbound, and even then they aren't perfect.

And what about the poor frequency of nearby buses compared to 4tph?

Ok so why upgrade ANY station if this is your mindset?
Brisbane has no shortage of buses close to/ duplicating trains so you could almost make that argument for many.

Station deserves a rebuild due to the stupidly narrow platforms anyway.

[Gazza]

Explain to me why backtracking is acceptable in any circumstance?

[somebody]

There's 20bph weekday daytimes.

So you're arguing that people at stations which do not have DDA nor any bus options should wait longer so that some oddball trips can be served.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> QR 'struggling' to complete wheelchair access

Blog comment:

QR is not struggling, it is our governments struggling to fund the necessary upgrades.

Most of the rail network was built in a different era, when society did not properly consider access issues.  It is a mammoth task to bring old infrastructure up to DDA requirements.

QR does do a good job overall with engagement with the disabled sector.  Information on access can be found here  http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/AllStations/Pages/CityStationsAccessibility.aspx

[Gazza]

20 BPH, but they don't go to Indro station, they go to the shopping center. That hill in a wheelchair or with a pram? 
I shouldn't be about "oddball" trips.
What, do you think the disabled are all CBD office workers or something? What about all the other travel they would do (Might not be able to drive or have access to someone to drive them)

In terms of bigger fish to fry, what did you have in mind?

Personally, I would like to see Auchenflower and Loganlea done due to the ramps being non compliant and being adjacent to hospitals.
Strathpine should be high on the list due to Westfield being across the road.
On the Ipswich line I think Bundamba should be up there due to the TAFE.
Fairfield and Yeronga should be done due to their central location.
And Morningside to get rid of that horror story of a ramp:

Taringa is at least in the top 10 to be done next.


But at the same time, its not as if Taringa is some backwater. It is being rapidly developed and the suburb has a high rate of PT use, so it should be high-ish.

But it is completely unreasonable to say not a cent should be spent.

[ozbob]

I made some recent inquiries to Queensland Rail re Auchenflower DDA earlier this week, following some feedback from some passengers.

No date was able to be given for compliance, although it does rate highly for an upgrade due to the hospital principally.  Liaison with the hospital is regularly undertaken I was assured.   Assistance is needed for wheelchairs due to the steep ramps.

Taringa has one of the highest public transport usage rates for Brisbane suburbs.

[SurfRail]

I would presume it will be done eventually for DDA compliance at Taringa.  I can't imagine Taringa-Ipswich or Taringa-Richlands is a common travel pattern, and even then you can interchange at Toowong which is only a one station backtrack.

Aren't there far bigger fish to fry for DDA?

Agreed, but getting every single metropolitan stations up to at least "assisted" access would be the main thing, and Taringa wouldn't even meet that standard. 

Stations like Beerburrum are clearly overcooked, but in the circumstances at least they had the opportunity to do them properly as part of a broader package of works.  Taringa is not going to be the beneficiary of any realignment or track expansion so it will need to be completely brownfield, making it expensive whenever it is done.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Strathpine isn't a priority just for Westfield given the poor state of the footpaths along Gympie Road on both sides. Short term access for another entrance should be done for platform 1 to enable quick swapping of platforms. Anything major I'd hold off doing (including platform raising) until the MBRC, QR and the Government sit down and discuss future plans for the area as MBRC wants to redevelope the whole surrounding area, upgrade to a major bus/train interchange station along with the station be moved slightly to the north to cater for the bus/rail interchange and extra tracks going through the station.

[somebody]

If assisted access is your major goal, there are still stations like Shorncliffe, Sherwood, Chelmer, Graceville, North Boondall, Yeronga just for starters which do not reach that standard nor do they have much of an alternate access method.

[SurfRail]

If assisted access is your major goal, there are still stations like Shorncliffe, Sherwood, Chelmer, Graceville, North Boondall, Yeronga just for starters which do not reach that standard nor do they have much of an alternate access method.

Certainly.  I'm not suggesting they should start on Taringa tomorrow.

Sherwood, Chelmer and Graceville should all fit the same template as Taringa - no need for 4 platforms, which should make it easier to operate over time.

[somebody]

Don't the buses serve the need?  There's other stations which do not have nearly as good alternatives.

Pity if the bus doesn't go where you wanted.

Exactly - like anywhere south of Moggill Road. 

The flatter parts of the south of Taringa along Swann Rd are probably reachable from the bus with relative ease.  With some inconvenience when heading inbound though.

[Gazza]

If assisted access is your major goal, there are still stations like Shorncliffe, Sherwood, Chelmer, Graceville, North Boondall, Yeronga just for starters which do not reach that standard nor do they have much of an alternate access method.

Out of that list Yeronga should be first due to the tafe.

But why would Sherwood and Chelmer be more important than Taringa?

[somebody]

If assisted access is your major goal, there are still stations like Shorncliffe, Sherwood, Chelmer, Graceville, North Boondall, Yeronga just for starters which do not reach that standard nor do they have much of an alternate access method.

Out of that list Yeronga should be first due to the tafe.

But why would Sherwood and Chelmer be more important than Taringa?

I would say because of the awful alternatives.

[Gazza]

Slightly offopic, but does anyone else reckon Sherwoods upgrade should/would involve sinking the station, putting in lifts down and removing the LX?

Pretty OTT i guess, but it depends what the long term thinking is. Could package it up as an urban village type project and put shops n shizz along the street.

Sherwood might as well remain as 4 platforms though though Surfrail if its going to stay as a surface station. It's wide enough and not on a curve.

[somebody]

Slightly offopic, but does anyone else reckon Sherwoods upgrade should/would involve sinking the station, putting in lifts down and removing the LX?

No.

The LX doesn't really add much value to the road network there.  Plenty of alternative crossings.  Only thing I can think which might have a benefit is trucks too tall to go under the railway.  Even the GCL could easily go away from the LX.

[mufreight]

If one is to check out the gradients that would be required to climb out of a below surface crossing of Sherwood Road and then cross over both Quarry Road and Oxley Road it very quickly becomes evident that sinking Sherwood Station and crossing under Sherwood road is less than practical.
Some years ago it was suggested that a road overbridge be constructed that would connect Honour Avenue with Bute Street but the proposal was ditched following a severe case of NIMBY.
If memory serves right  Kitchner Street was to be extended under the proposed underpass to Hedges Street which would then provide the road connection to Sherwood Road and the crossing itself would be closed leaving the pedestrian underpass at Sherwood Road.
There would be no doubt that QR would like to see the Sherwood Road level Xing gone.

[colinw]

Interesting.  I actually lived in Bute St for a while (1995/96) and never heard anything about this proposal. Considering the nature of the area, rampant NIMBYism wouldn't surprise me.

I don't see any benefit at all in replacing the Sherwood road LX.  Hardly a bustling hive of activity.

[somebody]

I would go so far as to say the Sherwood Rd LX could be closed with no further changes to the road network.  Only possible exception is maybe widening Oxley Rd.

[Gazza]

^Ta for that Mu. Never knew about the overpass proposal. The nimbys in Sherwood are particularly bad, they wanted to stop the new bus depot saying it would endanger the schoolkids and all sorts of other stupid reasons.

That said Grade would be about 8 in 390  (1 in 48 ) if we wanted to get it under Sherwood but retain going over Quarry Rd (Assuming 7m clearance needed from rail to overhead, plus 1m for road bridge structurals)

How is a 1 in 48 grade?


Also, just felt like saying its only really 29 of 30 stations needing major works...All Traverston needs is a ramp and a level drop off area at the marked at the base of the ramp.

Over the top yes lol, but people want this station open right?