Article: Airtrain on track for expansion

[techblitz]

haha comparing atlanta airport with brisbane airport.....HTG thats funny.....theres juuuuuuuuust a slight difference in pax numbers/takeoffs/landings

[#Metro]

Atlanta has extremely low density. 15 minute MARTA rail service, Go Card under a different name (same equipment) and carries same number of pax...

[Arnz]

Easy. Just another part of fatherhood 

And FYI, the main part of that post was that walking around airports overseas can easily easily clock over 400m. At Atlantas airport, it can easily be over 600m walking between gates. I think the futherest boarding gate is around 2600m from the main entrance area. Only in recent years  have they extended the subway to reach most of its concourses.

But generally, you don't have all your bags when walking to/from gates. You have all your bags between the terminal and pick up area. You cannot compare the two.

Eh, Arnz thinks the complaining is over a minor issue.  Young families with kids doing 400-500m walks to the local bus stop is seen as a common occurence in towns like Caboolture and Ipswich

Arnz knows of relatives that had recently had to do the trek of dragging suitcases along with a kid and a toddler from one terminal to another at Singapore Changi early in the morning (LRT not operational in the early hours) whilst changing flights to the Philippines a few months ago (they were flying LCCs hence they needed to clear immigration and re-check in).

[HappyTrainGuy]

Atlanta has extremely low density. 15 minute MARTA rail service, Go Card under a different name (same equipment) and carries same number of pax...

The subway system and SkyTrain at Atlanta Airport are run and maintained by the Atlanta Department of Aviation. Theres a train every couple of mins with about 200,000 using it daily IIRC...  which for just an airport puts into perspective how cr%p the SEQ PT system must be haha.

haha comparing atlanta airport with brisbane airport.....HTG thats funny.....theres juuuuuuuuust a slight difference in pax numbers/takeoffs/landings

Ahhh only by a few hundred people. Just a very slight difference! ...okay maybe a thousand... hundred thousand.... errrrr... its still close enough I know comparing Brisbane airport to something huge like Atlanta isn't in the same world but there are lots and lots of airports where walking will be involved. Some moreso than others and having been to quite a few airports in my lifetime where walking was involved and then seeing people kick up a stink about having to walk 400m with all their bags... C'mon. Its people like that which are employed in BT that decide everyone must have a scenic tour bus stop 150m from their front door.

But generally, you don't have all your bags when walking to/from gates. You have all your bags between the terminal and pick up area. You cannot compare the two.

Then use a trolley to help out. If some people are too cheap to shell out a couple bucks for a trolley knowing they have to walk 400m+ then that's their problem. If they can go shopping with their kids then they can walk out of a airport terminal.

Quite frankly people have to harden up and realise that everything can't be given to them on a silver platter.

[Arnz]

Ahhh only by a few hundred people. Just a very slight difference! ...okay maybe a thousand... hundred thousand.... errrrr... its still close enough I know comparing Brisbane airport to something huge like Atlanta isn't in the same world but there are lots and lots of airports where walking will be involved. Some moreso than others and having been to quite a few airports in my lifetime where walking was involved and then seeing people kick up a stink about having to walk 400m with all their bags... C'mon. Its people like that which are employed in BT that decide everyone must have a scenic tour bus stop 150m from their front door.

Walking from the end of the concourse in HKIA to the other end of a Concourse for a connecting flight can also be a bit of a exercise ..  but there is the travellators for the lazy too

And also speaking of experience, longest I've done with suitcases and a trolley was LAX T2 to T7 over 15 years ago on a Family holiday.  No travellators at most LAX terminals at the time.

[cartoonbirdhaus]

Heaven forbid should some of those users walk around between terminals at Atlanta's international airport

...Or LAX. There's a few hundred metres' walk to the immigration booths at Tom Bradley, on top of the 500 m from there to Terminal 3, for instance.

[SurfRail]

Catch the train and/or take wheeled luggage - problem solved.

[somebody]

I agree.  Big hoo ha about nothing.

The Mrs was threatened to have the AFP called on her when she wouldnt move after less than two minutes there!

I expect 2 minutes would be easily enough to get a ticket at Sydney Airport.

[Gazza]

Catch the train and/or take wheeled luggage - problem solved.

Brotip: Wheeled luggage is actually heavier than the equivalent, and you can take a smaller bag because less space is taken by the mechanisim.

Me? I use a travel backpack.....Arms and legs free!

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Off the rails: Uncertainty over Airtrain monopoly

Off the rails: Uncertainty over Airtrain monopoly
October 26, 2012 - 3:00AM
Tony Moore

Airtrain has a virtual monopoly on public transport to the airport.

Buses could provide public transport direct to Brisbane Airport after 2014, according to Brisbane City Council.

The restricted timetable of the Airtrain service, which has a virtual monopoly on public transport to and from the airport, has long been an issue for travellers.

The contract between the state Transport Department and the rail provider is confidential and it appears unclear when the monopoly could be broken, with a spokesman for Transport Minister Scott Emerson saying Airtrain had exclusive rights to service the airport until 2036.

However in April 2011, council told the Productivity Commission that a change in the contract to allow the introduction of buses was possible after 2014.

The issue was raised earlier this week by Brisbane Airport Corporation chief executive Julieanne Alroe, who said public transport was becoming more popular among air travellers.

BAC's figures showed the share of people using Airtrain increased from around 6 per cent in 2008 to around 8 per cent in 2011, while a further 13 per cent used private mini-buses and coaches.

Airtrain, a private company, runs the rail link from Eagle Junction to the international and domestic terminals. Its confidential contract with the Transport Department to provide rail services runs until 2036.

Airtrain built the rail link without government assistance at a cost of $200 million and opened the service in 2001.

That was confirmed last night by a spokesman for Mr Emerson, who said the contract ran for 35 years.

"In 2001, the Labor government signed a 35-year agreement with Airtrain that excludes the operation of subsidised public transport buses to Airtrain stations," he said in a statement.

However, council's report to the Productivity Commission appears to contradict this.

"Under the agreement between Airtrain and Queensland Transport, Brisbane City Council is not permitted to operate a bus service within one kilometre of Airtrain stations until 2014," it reads.

"As both the domestic and international terminals fall within one kilometre of an Airtrain station, Council can only provide limited services.

"Though other sources of transport service the Airport, competition appears to be constrained due to factors such as contractual arrangements, restricted hours of operation and limited access."

That is why three state government-subsidised bus services (routes 590, 369 and 303) run by council have to run no closer than the DFO shopping centre near the airport.

Lord Mayor Graham Quirk is in China and his office would not let Deputy Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner speak on the issue, because the contract parties are the state government and Airtrain.

However a spokesman for Cr Quirk said he believed 2014 was when Airtrain's exclusivity agreement for public transport ended.

"But when it gets to 2014, whether they decide to open it up or not, we would have no idea," he said.

Mr Emerson's spokesman, who also worked at Translink, spoke with three senior departmental officers last night, who said they did not believe changes could happen in 2014, although none remembered the Airtrain contract in detail, he said.

Airtrain now charges $15.50 for a one-way trip between Central Station and the domestic terminal, with 1.5 million people using the service last year.

The same journey could be a zone three Go Card bus trip which would cost $4.24 in peak hour or $3.40 in off peak.

Tourists using a paper ticket would pay $6.30 for the same bus trip, less than half of Airtrain's fare, though again Airtrain services are not subsidised.

Ms Alroe said BAC's research showed that the number of people using private vehicles to get to the airport was declining.

"Using private vehicles particularly to pick up and drop off is one of the declining areas," she said.

"We are certainly seeing shifts to public transport."

BAC statistics for 2011 show that for the domestic terminal: the Airtrain carried 8 per cent of passengers, private vehicles had 50 per cent, taxis had 26 per cent of passengers, while mini-buses had 13 per cent and private limousines had 3 per cent.

Airtrain's chief operating officer Neil Dickin said the company made a $15.7 million profit in 2011- 12, a 25 per cent increase on the 2010-11 profit figure of $12.5 million.

Mr Dickin said Airtrain's contract was for 35 years, but when asked about bus services, he said he "could not go into the details of the contract".

"We have around 1.5 million passengers a year, which equates to around 7 per cent of the patronage at Brisbane Airport," he said.

"It has been steady over the past three years. It stays steady at about the 7 per cent market share."

Mr Dickin repeatedly declined to comment on details within the contract involving bus services to the airport.

In 2009-10 BAC received $840,000 in "landside access charges" from private bus companies (mainly Coachtrans) using the airport.

It also received $140,000 from Airtrain as a train corridor lease, according to council's submission to the Productivity Commission.

It is unclear whether a bus service along the recently opened Airport Link tunnel has been investigated.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/travel/travel-news/off-the-rails-uncertainty-over-airtrain-monopoly-20121025-288sk.html

[#Metro]

If I spent $200 million dollars and huge charges on leases every year, I would be annoyed at being undercut by gov't and internal self-competition. Like it or loathe it, Airtrain is part of the PT network it paid huge amounts of money to give us the line and so why shouldn't it make money from that?

The article is also nonsense claiming that it has "monopoly". Er, there's coaches, small transfer operators, taxis, drop offs and even, if you are willing to transfer at DFO, the T-Bus.

The frequency needs to be improved, and the span is actually quite good now that it has been extended to 10 pm - a further extension to 11.30 pm and early mornings would match the BUZ span of hours, which is important as that would allow people to change from the train at Cultural Centre to the Busway network even at late hours (ditto for other train services - not frequent enough) and also access the cheap flights the leave at ungodly hours (not worth it for me to get to the airport early as (a) no public transport and (b) taxi expense cancels the cheaper flights

15 or even 20 minute frequency would be godsend - waiting half an hour is a joke.

[SurfRail]

BCC could just pay Airtrain so as to lower fares or add a few services.  But then those State Government funded blue and yellow buses wouldn't be used...

[somebody]

What's wrong with Airtrain is obvious.  Poor frequency, still mediocre operating hours and high fares.  Airtrain JFK has a fare of $5 for people joining the system outside the airport.

[johnnigh]

Airtrain does deserve the opportunity to make the profit on which it planned when it invested. The problem is guaranteeing that profit and allowing Airtrain to gold-plate itself and demand pricing that pays for the gold-plating (see electricity poles & wires regulated rate of return). Competition from heavily subsidized BT buses would hardly be conducive to private investment in public transport in Queensland, which is, like it or not, essential (there's good argument that BT should be sold by BCC - BT is only a supplier, not a provider, which is Translink).
Certainly, a consortium of BAC & BCC could pay Airtrain to lower prices toward the zone-equivalent and improve frequency and hours, but there doesn't seem to be a strong enough incentive on BAC to obtain that outcome. Without BAC wanting it, it won't happen. As long as they make so much from car parking... 

[techblitz]

What's wrong with Airtrain is obvious.  Poor frequency, still mediocre operating hours and high fares.  Airtrain JFK has a fare of $5 for people joining the system outside the airport.

The high fares are what peeves me the most. I go out of my way  to use the free service from dfo when i can.If only more people knew about the free service they could save themselved an easy 10+ bux.

[longboi]

The frequency needs to be improved, and the span is actually quite good now that it has been extended to 10 pm - a further extension to 11.30 pm and early mornings would match the BUZ span of hours, which is important as that would allow people to change from the train at Cultural Centre to the Busway network even at late hours

Definitely not a fan of artificially inducing higher passenger volumes at CC, especially not ones with lots of large bags. Not until a solution to the portal intersection is found and/or an extra one or two platforms are built.

North and west are covered by Roma St and south at South Bank (still not even a fan of that place, considering the passenger volumes between 3:20 - 3:50pm).

[ozbob]

Profit $15.7M for 1.5M pax.  So around $10 profit per passenger.  This suggests to me that they could grow patronage  by a fare reduction and actually increase their profit.  Airtrain did hint they are looking at possible service expansion as well I recall.

[somebody]

Profit $15.7M for 1.5M pax.  So around $10 profit per passenger.  This suggests to me that they could grow patronage  by a fare reduction and actually increase their profit.  Airtrain did hint they are looking at possible service expansion as well I recall.

Probably because they paid off their debt a while back.  1.5M pax is still pretty mediocre.

The fact remains we are paying top dollar for a mediocre service.  At least the weekday frequency (including mornings) could go to 15 minutes.  Last year I compiled a table.

Add New York, Atlanta, LA have better/cheaper airport services.

[SurfRail]

Profit $15.7M for 1.5M pax.  So around $10 profit per passenger.  This suggests to me that they could grow patronage  by a fare reduction and actually increase their profit.  Airtrain did hint they are looking at possible service expansion as well I recall.

Probably because they paid off their debt a while back.  1.5M pax is still pretty mediocre.

The fact remains we are paying top dollar for a mediocre service.  At least the weekday frequency (including mornings) could go to 15 minutes.  Last year I compiled a table.

Add New York, Atlanta, LA have better/cheaper airport services.

They also have significantly bigger and busier airports.

I have no doubt we will see 15 minute headways in the next few years.

[somebody]

This link: http://www.brisbanebusinessnews.com.au/process/myviews/bbn_article.html?articleId=881
Reckons 1.8M pax.  I would doubt that it has dropped that much.  Although there has been a lot of roads built around the airport.

They also have significantly bigger and busier airports.

Wellington, Christchurch, Queenstown, Gold Coast, Adelaide and Perth Domestic have better and/or cheaper Airport services and are smaller airports.

BTW, not to be ignored is that the original equity investors had their investment reduced by the debt-to-equity restructure midway along.

I have no doubt we will see 15 minute headways in the next few years.

Perhaps we will.  Not sure why you are so optimistic about it though.

[SurfRail]

Wellington, Christchurch, Queenstown, Gold Coast, Adelaide and Perth Domestic have better and/or cheaper Airport services and are smaller airports.

Perth?  Route 37 all-stops bus via the "charming" Belmont arrondisement, or a private shuttle costing as much per person as Airtrain and running less frequently, is better than Airtrain?

Adelaide might be better now, but they still had high-floor Mercedes artics on the airport services as late as 2009 (ie oldest and least accessible buses in the fleet).  Even now, the buses used aren't equipped for luggage like the Skybus or Route 702 buses.

Gold Coast is adjacent to existing bus services - not sure about the New Zealand ones.  BNE is on a big chunk of the city all by itself with nothing around it.

I suspect none of these would rate anywhere near 7% on public transport share, and none of them are rail-based.  Ours is, and won't cost $15 or so indefinitely.

I have no doubt we will see 15 minute headways in the next few years.

Perhaps we will.  Not sure why you are so optimistic about it though.

Because the government is not involved in that decision, except to roll over and facilitate it.

[somebody]

Perth's route 37 is certainly cheaper, if not better.

[SurfRail]

Perth's route 37 is certainly cheaper, if not better.

I can assure everybody that from experience, it is definitely not better.  Not only is the usual clientele less than savory, the route also gets packed to the brim on weekdays, usually by the time it hits Belmont Forum (which is the main shopping fortress in those parts).

[#Metro]

What's wrong with Airtrain is obvious.  Poor frequency, still mediocre operating hours and high fares.  Airtrain JFK has a fare of $5 for people joining the system outside the airport.

I don't believe that Airtrain is expensive. If you are going to the airport then there's probably a plane waiting for you at the other end and an air ticket costs around $120 to capital cities, possibly more. A taxi would take $50 off you. Most people only make a few air trips a year so the overall impact in terms of affordability in proportion to someone's yearly budget would be LOW. High frequency ongoing costs such as utilities, rent, rates, taxes, and food are more likely to have an impact on someone's overall budget.

Running buses to the Airport would split the patronage which means LESS people per train - fewer passengers means LOWER span and LESS frequency!! These are BAD things!! Remember the mohring effect - the presence of an additional user LOWERS the cost and makes it easier to add more pax.

The only time I would accept competing BT buses would be when the train is NOT running - early and late before and after train operating hours. Other than that, if BT or TransLink wanted to fund buses, just calculate how much you would spend on buses and then pay the equivalent amount in subsidies to airtrain to run more services and lower fare prices.

I know this sounds like sacrilege - paying a private company - but we must remember that this is the model TransLink currently uses for non-BT buses and ferries already.

There is no need to reinvent the wheel!

[HappyTrainGuy]

I don't believe that Airtrain is expensive. If you are going to the airport then there's probably a plane waiting for you at the other end and an air ticket costs around $120 to capital cities, possibly more. A taxi would take $50 off you. Most people only make a few air trips a year so the overall impact in terms of affordability in proportion to someone's yearly budget would be LOW. High frequency ongoing costs such as utilities, rent, rates, taxes, and food are more likely to have an impact on someone's overall budget.

For you maybe. It also depends on the carrier being used and the type of traveller (eg by yourself, family, partner, work paid etc). Jetstar regularly has flights to Sydney for something like $60-70 (they had a $49 deal not too long ago IIRC). Virgin is usually $100-110 and now that Tiger is back you can book a flight and still get change from a $50. Add in the Airport fare at your destination  eg Sydney and suddenly you've almost paid in train tickets for what you have in plane tickets. On one of my trips to Sydney earlier in the year I spent $160 in airfares for just myself and $62 in special airport only tickets. Add a few more dollars and it was enough to pay for my Sydney-Brisbane ticket.

[#Metro]

If you have time to fly and go on holidays, then you have the money to pay.

Given that the minimum wage is $14 per hour, most poorest worker would be able to afford a ride on Airtrain after just one hour of work. Given the handful of flying people do in a year, even if the fares were zero it would make very little difference to a persons yearly budget in the grand scheme of things.

Too expensive? Don't think so. Pay car rego and CTP which is $600 per year... that's expensive, and for what? A label you stick on your car window and a bit of data entry into a database.

Even *IF* airtrain was "too expensive", it would only make a case for subsidisation, not the putting on of self-competing public transport.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Once again you have estimated/assumed something based on what you have experienced or what you think happens. For a family of 4 it costs $62 in special airport tickets to go one way. Its $75 (plus the $20 taxi fare to the train station) from Strathpine to the Airport for a family of 4. Its also $89 for a private chauffeur to pick us up from our front door at Eatons Hill and drop us off at the airport. Hows that for not being expensive.

[#Metro]

Er, no clearly:

Given that the minimum wage is $14 per hour, most poorest worker would be able to afford a ride on Airtrain after just one hour of work.

Is true for anyone with a legal job in Australia.

Given the handful of flying people do in a year

Is also true, for pretty much all general travellers (unless you're a CEO or work in a FIFO arrangement in mines, and in both cases you have $$$).

So with this statement

Once again you have estimated/assumed something based on what you have experienced or what you think happens.

I have to disagree.

As for a 'family of four' it clearly states on the website
http://www.airtrain.com.au/kidstravelfree.php

Kids aged (5-14) travel free between the Airport and City stations when accompanied by a paying adult, subsequent to the following terms.

So I don't understand really what all the fuss is about.

However, there is some truth to what you are tying to say, and that is the student concession/pensioner doesn't apply (or maybe I didn't look hard enough?), and in this case I would agree that some discount be warranted for these groups as they generally have lower capacity to pay.

Now if you are really really really on hard times (what are you doing flying?) you can take a 369 to DFO (thans RAILBOT!) and hitch a ride on the T-bus which is free at DFO.

So there, no excuse!!

[#Metro]

I think the threats to Airtrain are AirportLink (although the high toll on that would mean that people with money would use it, so that's probably more competing against taxis and the big end of town) and the Kingsford Smith Road Upgrade.

You have to really ask what the purpose of KSD upgrades are if AirportLink connects to the gateway now anyway

We should also note a pattern - BT seems to be looking at running competing PT parallel to an existing PT line... sound familiar?
Maroon Citglider Mach II??

Trust BT to run buses parallel to and in competition with trains - and have it state funded to boot... 

[HappyTrainGuy]

Ah yes. Simple brain fade on my part. I got it confused with Sydneys Airport train as they classify kids as 4-16 and Airtrain here don't offer concession prices. I guess my brain is still in holiday mode 

[petey3801]

I ended up working the first train to the airport this morning (due to the failure of the train that was supposed to work it at Roma Street), there were around 40 pax on board after departure from EJ, with about 7 off at International (and 3 or 4 on). Not bad for a service that only connects with the first two Caboolture trains. Most pax boarded at Roma Street and Central. Not sure how many were on the return journey, but everytime I looked back while at Domestic, there were people getting on, so wouldn't be surprised for around the same loadings or more coming back towards the City.

[SteelPan]

Is there any firm plan yet, to place a station in the shopping/office/work area, a K or 2 before the Airport Stations - could this station be run as part of the City Train network (re fare structure)?

My "visions" for Airtrain:

State govt enters some type of JV with Airtrain - with an option to buy them out - to put more rail capacity into the greater Airport region and surrounds - to tie in with a wider 10yr plan for the reactivation of the suburban rail network to Trade Coast region and a branch to Bretts Wharf (long called for and very doable).

[SurfRail]

The government recently had the opportunity to buy the entire airport line and operation for the bargain basement price of $107m and did not do it.  An overseas pension fund will be acquiring/has already acquired it.

[ozbob]

Railway Digest 1 March 2013 page 10

New owner for Brisbane Airtrain

New owner for Brisbane Airtrain

Announced late December 2012, the sale of Brisbane's Airtrain to
the UK pension fund Universities Superannuation Scheme Limited
(USS) for $109.5 million is expected to be finalised in April 2013.

Currently, Airtrain is an unlisted public company whose shareholders
comprise both institutional and private investors. USS, a large global
infrastructure investor with $53 billion in assets under management,
already has a presence in Australia through investments in Sydney's
AirportLink rail line and the Melbourne -based Horizon Roads/
ConnectEast Group tollway operator.

Airtrain owns and operates the elevated 8.5 km line from Eagle
Junction to Brisbane Airport as well as the two stations that serve the
domestic and international terminals. The line was built at a cost of
$220 million with private funds and operations began in May 2001.

Since 2007, passenger trips have grown by a compound annual growth
rate of more than eight per cent. Train services now operate to 10.00
pm daily and are integrated with the Brisbane suburban network and
Gold Coast line.

[Jonno]

Railway Digest 1 March 2013 page 10

New owner for Brisbane Airtrain

New owner for Brisbane Airtrain

Announced late December 2012, the sale of Brisbane's Airtrain to
the UK pension fund Universities Superannuation Scheme Limited
(USS) for $109.5 million is expected to be finalised in April 2013.

Currently, Airtrain is an unlisted public company whose shareholders
comprise both institutional and private investors. USS, a large global
infrastructure investor with $53 billion in assets under management,
already has a presence in Australia through investments in Sydney's
AirportLink rail line and the Melbourne -based Horizon Roads/
ConnectEast Group tollway operator.

Airtrain owns and operates the elevated 8.5 km line from Eagle
Junction to Brisbane Airport as well as the two stations that serve the
domestic and international terminals. The line was built at a cost of
$220 million with private funds and operations began in May 2001.

Since 2007, passenger trips have grown by a compound annual growth
rate of more than eight per cent. Train services now operate to 10.00
pm daily and are integrated with the Brisbane suburban network and
Gold Coast line.

More chance of this being expanded in private ownership than public.  Local, State and Federal have no real intentions of increasing public transport.  The development of our cities is as far from leading practice as it gets.

[#Metro]

Isn't really any compelling reason for government ownership of airtrain when it is profitable and services are publicly operated by government anyway. One decision not to be surprised about.

[somebody]

More chance of this being expanded in private ownership than public.  Local, State and Federal have no real intentions of increasing public transport.  The development of our cities is as far from leading practice as it gets.

Seems so.

Never made sense for Airtrain to run its own trains when it uses the GC line as a feeder. I see no reason why Airtrain ownership should deviate from its original I think 35 year lease. The state has better things to do with the limited funds than F__ with something that seems to work quite well.

Doesn't work well at all!  How many hundreds of millions have been spent on road upgrades, which would not have been necessary with a better market share for rail.  I'm telling you well north of the $220mil spent on building the line and even more than the $109.5mil it's just been sold for.

[#Metro]

Well I think we all can feel the privatisation of QR coming. Perth shows its possible to run a good public ship, but again, the trains on many lines in melbourne run every 10 minutes on sundays on both directions. I don't even see that kinda frequency in brisbane

[SurfRail]

The issue for me is that buying out the airport line for around $13m per km (well below the cost of anything built recently) would have enabled superior integration with the rest of the fare system and made it much more attractive.  There could still have been a modest premium fare to off-set the cost of the acquisition over a few years.  The infrastructure is in good nick, already part of the current system operationally and would have started to put a bigger dent in car mode-share to the airport.

I suspect the service will get better anyway, it's not a huge issue, but I think it was a reasonably good opportunity which was passed up.

[petey3801]

Well I think we all can feel the privatisation of QR coming.

Many people within QR have the same feeling