Article: Airtrain on track for expansion

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail 19 Sep 2012 page 26

Airtrain on track for expansion

Airtrain on track for expansion
James McCullough

AIRTRAIN yesterday reported a 25 per cent increase in full-year profit to a record $15.7 million and anticipated that the opening of the Airport Link tunnel would have little impact on its financial outlook in the year ahead. Chairman Mike Petty said the new Airport Link toll road at this early stage had no negative impact on Airtrain patronage and internal research indicated it was unlikely to dampen profits. He said a return taxi fare from the city to the airport was running at about $100 to $110 while a return car ride, including fuel, tolls and parking, was an estimated $90. The Airtrain fare is $30 return, or $28 for a discount fare, and the train runs every half hour from Sam to lOpm, and every 15 minutes in morning and afternoon peak hours. Mr Petty said the company was looking at extending the train's hours. He said Airtrain was now a mature and secure business meeting 95 per cent of the flights, with 7 per cent of market share for all transport to and from the airport.

Note:  The Chairman of the Airtrain board is Mr Mike Pelly.  Typo in article ..

[BrizCommuter]

Airtrain 15 minute off-peak (and all peak) would be rather nice to coincide with the mythical stage 2 timetables!

[ozbob]

Extending the hours is probably the more likely outcome at the moment (10pm to midnight).  Seems the move to 10pm has been successful, as we all hoped it would.

[SurfRail]

If they were going to beef up services, I would:

- Extend all Bowen Hills terminating services from the Gold Coast to the Airport.
- Extend the spread of peak-hour 15 minute frequency.
- Run any non-Gold Coast services at least as far as Park Road (once the Ferny Grove extras are extended to terminate at Yeerongpilly or beyond)
- Examine freezing or gradually lowering fares or airport retail/dining incentives to boost patronage to a point where profitability is still maintained (even if reduced) but patronage growth is stimulated.

If I was them I would be doing everything in my power to maximise the mode-share to something like 20-25% or more.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Airtrain to City, then all to Corinda. Thus enabling Off-peak Ips trains to run limited express to Corinda and save some time. Also provide a direct feed option to the Airport from the Milton-Toowong business corridore (in lieu of 15min GC trains).

I doubt that'll ever be considered given the current plans. 4tph Springfield-Kippa Ring/2tph Ipswich-Caboolture express is the most likely outcome to see in that corridor. Agree with ozbob. They'll be pushing for longer operating hours rather than frequency. Once they have that down the track they would push for small frequency boosts and then full time frequency boost.

[ButFli]

What about extending the Bowen Hills terminators from Richlands to the airport? That would introduce one-seat rides to the airport to significantly more stations.

[Arnz]

What about extending the Bowen Hills terminators from Richlands to the airport? That would introduce one-seat rides to the airport to significantly more stations.

Goes against sectorisation unfortunately. 

Better alternative is to extend to Manly to form metro-like frequencies on the South Brisbane-Park Road corridor during off-peak (peak will be a capacity issue due to competing with all the other suburban lines for services).  All-stopping all Airtrain services at Albion and Wooloowin would also release Petrie/Caboolture/Nambour of it's obligations to serve the two inner-city stations.

Personally, extending the Airtrain hours to 11:30pm would be more ideal (and a bit more achievable in the short term).  That would only be 3 extra services a night, even if some of the extra services are only Roma Street starters/terminators.

[Gazza]

In b4 someone tries suggesting the AirTrain runs earlier. Won't work because no other PT in Brisbane runs earlier than the current Airtrain AFAIK, so no connections are possible.

As it is, to catch the current first Airtrain, you have to get dropped at Roma St by car.

[HappyTrainGuy]

All-stopping all Airtrain services at Albion and Wooloowin would also release Petrie/Caboolture/Nambour of it's obligations to serve the two inner-city stations.

I doubt you'll see Airport services stopping at Wooloowin and Albion unless the contract is modified in a way that suits the airtrain mob. Yes it might help other train services such as the Petrie/Caboolture corridor with their stopping patterns but that's not Airtrains problem as they are the ones paying for the trains to run between Eagle Junction-Bowen Hills and not Translink paying for them. Just have a look at their marketing when driving along Kingsford Smith Drive. Through South Brisbane/South Bank. On the Gold Coast. Even through the City. Heavily promoting how many stops its from the city. How long it takes. Its an express train. Its also reflected in their interactive maps on their website. Pretty sure they also had a section dedicated to scanned copies of news articles about traffic congestion. The benefit just so happens to be that it connects to the Gold Coast line much in the same way that Richlands and Nambour sometimes match up. Same how Kippa Ring line will soon be joined to the Richlands/Springfield corridor.

In b4 someone tries suggesting the AirTrain runs earlier. Won't work because no other PT in Brisbane runs earlier than the current Airtrain AFAIK, so no connections are possible.

As it is, to catch the current first Airtrain, you have to get dropped at Roma St by car.

Forgot the first two inbound Caboolture services that arrive at Eagle Junction before the first outbound Airport service.

[#Metro]

Extending the hours is probably the more likely outcome at the moment (10pm to midnight).  Seems the move to 10pm has been successful, as we all hoped it would.

Congrats to Airtrain and good work.
First improvement would be to extend the span of hours to earlier and later flights - this would be useful because you could then take advantage of the cheap morning and late evening fares. At the moment I don't use late night or early morning flights because (a) there is no airtrain and (b) cab adds another $60 to the cost of the air ticket easily.

Second improvement would be to have 15 minute timetables where possible.

Keep up the good work, definitely media release worthy material

[BrizCommuter]

At the moment I don't use late night or early morning flights because (a) there is no airtrain and (b) cab adds another $60 to the cost of the air ticket easily.

Can you not get a lift in a car?

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

1st October 2012

Well done Airtrain

Greetings,

A report in the Couriermail  Airtrain on track for expansion  19 September 2012 page 26, has indicated that Airtrain is on track for further service expansions.  Well done to Airtrain on the successful outcome from the extended operating hours that commenced on the 12th December 2011.  As noted in the article "  the company was looking at extending the train's hours " .

We would welcome an extension to the operating hours and some improvements in service frequency as well.

Best wishes,

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

================================

Media release 11 December 2011

SEQ: Extended hours on train means you can catch that plane!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers enthusiastically welcomes extended Airtrain operating hours which begin tomorrow!

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"There has been plenty of controversy in the media over the years about Airtrain service operating hours and the billions mis-spent on unsustainable high-pollution and high-cost road upgrades and other car-centric infrastructure in and around Brisbane Airport."

"RAIL Back On Track therefore is glad that tomorrow, Airtrain operating hours will be expanded until 10 pm daily. We, on behalf of Brisbane commuters applaud Airtrain for this service improvement. In conjunction with complementary improvements to the high frequency BUZ network earlier this year, much of Brisbane can now get a train from the Brisbane Airport and get home on public transport, even during the late hours of the night."

"The last rail service to Varsity Lakes and the City will depart from the Domestic Airport at 9.59 pm and the International Airport at 10.02pm. With extended hours, people can catch a late night train and make the plane!"

References:

1. http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/bulletin/1323057640

2. http://www.airtrain.com.au/pressreleases.php

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[Gazza]

Forgot the first two inbound Caboolture services that arrive at Eagle Junction before the first outbound Airport service.

Learn something new every day.
At the same time though, seems tough to get many people transferring to the airtrain if the first Ex CAB trains are probably nearly empty themselves.

At the moment, I still dont see earlier airtrains as realistic.

I think for me the most realistic goals are.
-Run Airtrain to the point that it connects with the last O/B trains, and last BUZes from Roma St and Cultural Center.
-Higher frequency all day and in the morning and evening, but introduce it carefully so that they don't lose money again.

[petey3801]

Forgot the first two inbound Caboolture services that arrive at Eagle Junction before the first outbound Airport service.

Learn something new every day.
At the same time though, seems tough to get many people transferring to the airtrain if the first Ex CAB trains are probably nearly empty themselves.

At the moment, I still dont see earlier airtrains as realistic.

I think for me the most realistic goals are.
-Run Airtrain to the point that it connects with the last O/B trains, and last BUZes from Roma St and Cultural Center.
-Higher frequency all day and in the morning and evening, but introduce it carefully so that they don't lose money again.

I think you'd be rather surprised at how many people actually catch the early morning Ipswich/Cab trains in particular.. The first train from Cab is at least 3/4 seated load on a 6car, with the second train from Cab (a 3car set) standing room only.

As for the current first Airport train, I worked it twice in 5 days.. There wasn't a massive amount of people going out (probably around a dozen or so), but there was quite a number of people coming back from the Airport towards the city, so I wouldn't be surprised if an earlier service is justified by the inbound pax alone. I know I would use an earlier Airtrain when flying to Sydney, as I generally catch QF8 to Sydbey which leaves from the International terminal.. Problem is, the first Airtrain gets to International only 6 or 8 or so mins before checkin closes for this flight, so I don't generally risk it (unless QF have advised me via sms that the plane is running late from USA).

If Airtrain was to be pushed back to operate until midnight/last train/bus connection, I think a lot more would use it to be honest.. The 8-10pm services are getting quite a few pax now that people are used to it. The later trains are also quite good now for the midnight International departures as well.

[Gazza]

I don't think so, that late at night i think you'd just want to get home!
Cant imagine wating 50 mins for a train at 11pm.

[Arnz]

I'd still stick to what was suggested earlier re night time services after 10pm, half hourly till 11:30pm, even if some of the extra services are only Roma Street terminators. 

Only requires 3 trains, and extending Airtrain hours to 11:29pm (last service departing Domestic) are very much extensions of the current 3x late night Varsity-Bowen Hills services.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Forgot the first two inbound Caboolture services that arrive at Eagle Junction before the first outbound Airport service.

Learn something new every day.
At the same time though, seems tough to get many people transferring to the airtrain if the first Ex CAB trains are probably nearly empty themselves.

Not exactly the same time (1-2 min on paper. 2-3 min difference in rreality which is plenty of time to swap platforms. I should know as I've done that swap a few times before  ). The early morning services tend to arrive earlier into Eagle Junction with a short dwell (services tend to have a short dwell at Northgate as they usually run ahead prior) with the outbound Airport service sometimes waiting an extra minute if people are still using the ramps. If worse comes to worse board the first inbound Caboolture service and interchange at any of the city stops for the first outbound Airport service. As Petey said. The early morning services on the Caboolture line (including weekends) can draw some pretty big numbers that can make you think are you on a 4am inbound service or a 4pm outbound service.

[petey3801]

From Bowen Hills headed GC (M-Thr)

8:18pm starts from AP to GC
            30min service from AP to City only
9:18pm starts from AP to GC
             30min service from AP to City only
10:18pm starts from AP to GC
              30min service from AP to City only
11:18pm BH to GC only

Just a quick nit-pick, the 10:18pm off BHI is the last one from the Airport (departing BDT at 2158hrs), which goes to the GC, next train is the 2318hrs as you've indicated (just no AP in between them).

Just a note on the errors on the GC time table. Air train has the 5:27am arrival at Dom leaving RS at 5:00am. GC timetable has it at 4:53 and arriving at Central at 5:02. Departure is same for both at 5:04. How do they figure it takes 9min to go from RS to Central?

Just had a look at my WTT, it's got arr at Roma Street as 0453hrs with departure from RST at 0500, arr BNC 0502 dep 0504. The first Airport run comes out of the shed and (if it leaves the shed on time), it sits at Roma Street for the 7mins before departing, so that'd explain the discrepancy.

Looking at the reverse time table which is 5am departing Roma st for Dom at 5:27am, this is getting tight for the Brisbane direct to Mel, Can or Adelaide and some parts of Sydney for 9am meetings and I have failed to use Airtrain a few times for same. So I would have thought at least one earlier.

Agreed. It's why I have often been dropped off if i'm catching QF8 to Sydney. One earlier would be handy, would mean just being dropped at Roma Street. Caboolture line people would still be able to catch the first Airport train if it was 30mins earlier as well. I do believe all lines should have their first services arriving into the City at around the same time as the first one from Caboolture (BHI arr 0452). It annoys me to no end that the first train from Ipswich doesn't get in to the City until 0533 (RST)/0541 (BHI).

[SurfRail]

If we can't have 15 minute frequencies for a reasonable portion of the day on most of the network, I at least want to know the 30 minute frequency is maintained from say 6am to midnight on all line (excluding Sunshine Coast and Rosewood where trains that late would not need to run half-hourly).

Get rid of separate Saturday and Sunday timetables, get rid of the last few hourly gaps late at night and get rid of Bowen Hills terminating services to free up space (by extending everything through to the northside).

Can the airport be reliably timetabled for 15 minutes in both directions?

[petey3801]

If we can't have 15 minute frequencies for a reasonable portion of the day on most of the network, I at least want to know the 30 minute frequency is maintained from say 6am to midnight on all line (excluding Sunshine Coast and Rosewood where trains that late would not need to run half-hourly).

Get rid of separate Saturday and Sunday timetables, get rid of the last few hourly gaps late at night and get rid of Bowen Hills terminating services to free up space (by extending everything through to the northside).

Can the airport be reliably timetabled for 15 minutes in both directions?

Here here!!

In regards to reliability, as long as late running trains from the coast have fresh turnouts through the city that start ontime, it should be fine.

[somebody]

...

I'll be very annoyed if these anomalies you refer to are not sorted with the sector 2 review.  Should be no Bowen Hills terminators in the AM from the Gold Coast, only last service(s) are justified to terminate there.  Similarly no starters for the Gold Coast other than from the Domestic Airport except for first service(s).  Obviously, that would remove the Shorncliffe-Gold Coast connection and services like the 6:23am ex-Roma St to BDT train.

I think there should be an interpeak 15 minute frequency on the Airport line.  It's about the only line where an interpeak 15 minute frequency combined with a 30 minute weekend/evening frequency would make a lot of sense.  I'd also like to see the 15 minute frequency starting 30 minutes earlier with one more return service, best starting on the Gold Coast (*cough* Robina Stabling *cough*).

I agree with the point about the earlier first Airport bound service, but only because of the feed from the Caboolture train.  Otherwise, it's only useful for people walking to city stations + Eagle Junction.  Actually, this service should also serve Albion and Woolowin.

[somebody]

I wouldn't think so.

CBD dwellers aren't that much of a proportion of those flying.  On business trips people generally fly in in the morning and out in the evening.

[somebody]

Can the airport be reliably timetabled for 15 minutes in both directions?

Doesn't that already happen.  Or am I missing what you are asking?

[HappyTrainGuy]

RTT, indeed the contract for the Airport mob is Bowen Hills-Airport terminals-Bowen Hills. Gold Coast just happens to be a benefit of the timetabling and pairing.

[SurfRail]

Can the airport be reliably timetabled for 15 minutes in both directions?

Doesn't that already happen.  Or am I missing what you are asking?

Both directions and all day?

[somebody]

Not all day but for a substantial period in both directions.

[somebody]

'Twas 400m according to 612, but I think the point was they had trouble navigating it.

[BrizCommuter]

'Twas 400m according to 612, but I think the point was they had trouble navigating it.

Yes 400m
CM has posted a video of someone doing walk. With lift transfer it takes about 5:45min, which is starting to take along time for some. It should have had travelator and ramp to new level not steps or lift.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/brisbane-aiport-corporation-to-review-pick-up-area-after-users-complain/story-e6freon6-1226498070944

The positive side is that it now forces everyone to walk past the much closer Domestic Airport train station which is well sign posted and has travellator to station. Normally I would catch train to LoganLea station or other and get picked up there. Although with family that starts to become a costly option.

400m will however only contribute positively to most of the travellers health

BrizCommuter walked from the terminal to the pick up area a few days ago. BrizCommuter is a fast walker, and it still took 8 minutes to do the walk. Expecting anyone other than fit and healthy people (with limited baggage and no children) to do this walk is an absolute joke. Yet more Brisbane mediocrity!

However, it's still easier than using the infrequent AirTrain!

[SurfRail]

Maybe it will cause a slight bump upwards in Coolangatta patronage as people who are perfectly happy to drive 100km out of their way but not walk 500m decide to fly from there...

(At least there is a bus every 15 minutes or so into OOL.)

[Otto]

Gary Hardgrave ( 4BC ) had a lot to say about the Airport Pickup area, and also level crossings gets a mention.

http://www.4bc.com.au/podcasts

Scroll down to the Gary Hardgrave Podcast.  ( Gary is an EX member of the BAC board )

[ozbob]

Gary Hardgrave ( 4BC ) had a lot to say about the Airport Pickup area, and also level crossings gets a mention.

http://www.4bc.com.au/podcasts

Scroll down to the Gary Hardgrave Podcast.  ( Gary is an EX member of the BAC board )

[HappyTrainGuy]

Boo hoo. Harden up and take some cement. Heaven forbid should some of those users walk around between terminals at Atlanta's international airport 

[petey3801]

Boo hoo. Harden up and take some cement. Heaven forbid should some of those users walk around between terminals at Atlanta's international airport 

Let alone one of the terminals at Changi airport!! T3 (I think, off-hand) has a rail shuttle running from about 1/3 the way along to around 2/3 the way along!

[Arnz]

There are LRTs between all 3 Changi Terminals.  And yes it was T3 that had it's own LRT shuttle (from one end to another).

[BrizCommuter]

Boo hoo. Harden up and take some cement. Heaven forbid should some of those users walk around between terminals at Atlanta's international airport 

How about you try the walk with 3 heavy bags and two toddlers, and then show some sympathy?

Just to add, you have to pay for trolleys at BNE domestic as well. More $$$ for greedy BAC.

[red dragin]

Isn't it a free car park? I don't recall Heathrow having parking that didn't require a bus for those that paid.(correct me if wrong, was too busy watching planes)

As a parent of a 15 month old, who needs to do this trek in a few weeks, I will pay to park for the convienence.

It's still better than the chaos that was the drop off/pickup zone. That only worked when it was quiet. The Mrs was threatened to have the AFP called on her when she wouldnt move after less than two minutes there!

[HappyTrainGuy]

Easy. Just another part of fatherhood 

And FYI, the main part of that post was that walking around airports overseas can easily easily clock over 400m. At Atlantas airport, it can easily be over 600m walking between gates. I think the futherest boarding gate is around 2600m from the main entrance area. Only in recent years  have they extended the subway to reach most of its concourses.

[Golliwog]

Isn't it a free car park? I don't recall Heathrow having parking that didn't require a bus for those that paid.(correct me if wrong, was too busy watching planes)

As a parent of a 15 month old, who needs to do this trek in a few weeks, I will pay to park for the convienence.

It's still better than the chaos that was the drop off/pickup zone. That only worked when it was quiet. The Mrs was threatened to have the AFP called on her when she wouldnt move after less than two minutes there!

It's free for the first 20 minutes, 20-30 minutes $6, 30-60 minutes is $12 or something? I cut it fine but got out of there in just under 20. Paying to park won't necessarily save you walking distance though, the pick up isn't that far from the car parks.

[red dragin]

Forgot the 20mins part, whoops.

I think one of the gates at Heathrow took us 15 mins to walk from, then an hour to pass customs.

[BrizCommuter]

Easy. Just another part of fatherhood 

And FYI, the main part of that post was that walking around airports overseas can easily easily clock over 400m. At Atlantas airport, it can easily be over 600m walking between gates. I think the futherest boarding gate is around 2600m from the main entrance area. Only in recent years  have they extended the subway to reach most of its concourses.

But generally, you don't have all your bags when walking to/from gates. You have all your bags between the terminal and pick up area. You cannot compare the two.