Double the trains to Ferny Grove

[somebody]

I think Shorncliffe and Doomben should be a different colour.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Shorncliffe-Doomben-Cleveland will be different colours once the new timetable and the expected Doomben-RS shuttle/Shorncliffe-Cleveland pairing is implimented. Similar to how Caboolture-Cleveland used to be Green/Ipswich-Shorncliffe used to be blue.

@surfrail. IIRC that's what will be happening for Springfield/Kippa Ring futher down the line. The small extension for 1 station was deemed not necessary for its own seperate colour yet given the network wide timetalbe reforms and railway extensions that were on the table. (IIRC once Springfield is completed maps would change to have its own corridor colour with the Kippa Ring corridor extension in the same colour with broken line/outline/faded colour - Similar to the current maps with the Springfield extension).

[Golliwog]

The problem I see with trying to brand high frequency trains is its so scattered. Between peaks it only exists evenly FG to Park Rd and Darra to Bowen Hills. After PM peak it only exists Darra to Northgate. Weekends I assume are similar.

[SurfRail]

How's about:

Green for Ipswich and Caboolture
Brown for Springfield and Kippa-Ring
Red for Ferny Grove and Beenleigh
Purple for Cleveland and Shorncliffe
Olive for Doomben
Orange for Gold Coast and Airport
Blue for Sunshine Coast
Teal for inner city terminating trains

Things like green/gold for the Sunshine Coast and black for the airport should go at very least so they match the line colour.

I think black would be used for long-distance or special services (including via Tennyson specials or emergency diversions).

[Arnz]

IMO, I'd say Sky Blue for the Sunshine Coast, at least match the region color with the buses.  An all-stops service via shuttle connection at Caboolture would have to display green and sky blue. 

Swap the teal for the Blue for terminating services.   

[cartoonbirdhaus]

For the interurbans, perhaps take a leaf out of CityRail's book: i.e. grey lines with coloured station markers for the Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast/BNE Airport lines. A lighter grey for long-distance rail, since they should be less prominent than the other lines.

[Gazza]

What about melbourne, 2 colours trololololol:

[SurfRail]

^ Anywhere else in the world, you would expect that an Upfield train would continue to Werribee according to that map.  Good luck using it to work out the Loop too...

[aldonius]

Suggestion - use black text on white background for City terminating trains.
Very distinctive, can't be used on regular maps anyway, frees up teal (which I reckon would look nice on KR - Springfield).

[cartoonbirdhaus]

Maybe something like this? (Although in all honesty, I'd prefer dark blue for the Kippa Ring/Springfield pair.)

[Gazza]

Why do we have separate names for paired lines anyway?
I mean, It's not like the two halves of the London Underground lines have separate names either side of central London.
Same goes for Singapore, or anywhere else for that matter.

[SurfRail]

^ Because the lines aren't reliably paired, and even if they were all you can really do is give it a number or a colour.  You can't say "Outer Brisbane Line" or "North Brisbane Line" or "North and West Line" because each line is insufficiently distinct, unlike Sydney or Perth.

If we get 100% reliable pairing (so no Varsity Lakes to Shorncliffe or Richlands to Nambour) I would suggest giving the lines a letter or number code.  Take the "A" train to Ipswich.

For that matter, I thought the Singapore network map uses a different "route" number for each direction of travel (eg Circle line is routes 8, 9 and 10).  I won't be going there until January so I couldn't comment as to whether this is prominently used.

I'm not a fan of separating the Rosewood line colorwise - to use a Singapore analogy it is like keeping the Changi extension as part of the East-West line colour scheme even though it is only a branch without through-routing (as I understand it).  Rosewood services don't go anywhere except Ipswich or continuing to the city as limited or all-stoppers on the standard Ipswich patterns.  If they worked like Gold Coast trains, then maybe.

[Mr X]

In Singapore, all the MRT signs include a line number and the destination- eg. on one platform they have signs saying 'to Marina Bay (10)' or 'Joo Koon (2)' or similar. Makes navigating the system so much easier.

Singapore's system is so small, it's easiest to remember the lines by the "central" or "east west" line rather than it's destination. It would be confusing if we suddenly had "Southern Line" (Gold Coast) or "Eastern Line" (Cleveland) because we have too many lines and people already remember their station by which line it's on, so I don't see the point in renaming all our lines.

EDIT: Here's an example (not my pic):

[Gazza]

even if they were all you can really do is give it a number or a colour.

Or a name....Examples from overseas: "Jubilee Line" (London) "Canada Line" (Vancouver) "Yamanote Line" (Tokyo) etc

[somebody]

If we get 100% reliable pairing (so no Varsity Lakes to Shorncliffe or Richlands to Nambour) I would suggest giving the lines a letter or number code.  Take the "A" train to Ipswich.

Yeah, let's get rid of VL-SHC but RCH-NBR is still two green lines.  I don't see the need to make it letters and/or numbers.  With Kippa Ring, the bit from Petrie to Darra could be green and blue, like the North Shore line used to be red & yellow.

[Stillwater]

lol,

In Queensland -

Take a Packed Lunch Line
Line of Despair
Mystery Arrival Time Line
The Stop Short Line
The Slow and Infrequent Line
The No Line Line (to Toogoolawah)
The Where Are We Line

[Set in train]

great job Bob and others.

it would be great to see the numbers on this, but TL/QR have previously not circulated the Off-peak data. FOI act any good here?

What about all this open government/e-government guff we heard this week? All info that's not subject to personal privacy (welfare care etc) and commercial in confidence will be released... supposedly. Will this mean more PT data?

[BrizCommuter]

lol,

In Queensland -

Take a Packed Lunch Line
Line of Despair
Mystery Arrival Time Line
The Stop Short Line
The Slow and Infrequent Line
The No Line Line (to Toogoolawah)
The Where Are We Line

Not forgetting the:

Doomben Gloom Line
Line of operating inefficiency
Padded out line
Trains so infrequent that we need to clear Velociraptors off the track line
I think I'll just take the car instead line
Why is an empty express train bypassing my station line

[skippy]

Which could well be cuts to planned frequency increases 

Users of the 314 must be shaking in their boots.

Both of them!

[BrizCommuter]

Flogging a dead horse, but...

In Melbourne, the Sydenham Line will be extended to Sunbury on 18th November 2012, with a new peak and off-peak timetable for all lines (Metro and V-Line) that share tracks.

Meanwhile, in Brisbane we are still awaiting peak service improvements for the Ferny Grove Line duplication which opened in April 2012.

[Jonas Jade]

Flogging a dead horse, but...

In Melbourne, the Sydenham Line will be extended to Sunbury on 18th November 2012, with a new peak and off-peak timetable for all lines (Metro and V-Line) that share tracks.

Meanwhile, in Brisbane we are still awaiting peak service improvements for the Ferny Grove Line duplication which opened in April 2012.

Sunbury will be every 40 minutes off peak! 

[BrizCommuter]

Flogging a dead horse, but...

In Melbourne, the Sydenham Line will be extended to Sunbury on 18th November 2012, with a new peak and off-peak timetable for all lines (Metro and V-Line) that share tracks.

Meanwhile, in Brisbane we are still awaiting peak service improvements for the Ferny Grove Line duplication which opened in April 2012.

Sunbury will be every 40 minutes off peak! 

Which is a >50% improvement over it's current off-peak train service. Peak service has increased by approx. 100%.

[Set in train]

Its really the "Rosewood Line" with most trains terminating early. One day it will also be the "Toowoomba Line"

One century sadly it seems. Neither side of politics sees the big picture.

[Golliwog]

Any updates on how the 15min timetable is going?

I don't usually use the outbound services as I don't leave early enough. However, inbound I've been traveling around 9.30-11am over the last week. I'm not sure how much it varies within that, but I have noticed that the original half hourly services (i.e. the Beenleigh bound ones) are much fuller than the Park Rd ones. Not sure how much of this is due to basically no changes to the bus timetables, so the buses all meet the older services, or because people aren't aware of the others (the PID's at most stations only display the next service, not the next 6 like the ones at Central).

[SurfRail]

I'd say give it time.

It hasn't been very well advertised frankly, so most people are probably just doing what they always did.  Over time they will probably equalise.

[aldonius]

I can concur with Golliwog; the 'new' services seem to have far fewer people on them.

Can anyone provide a comparison with the BUZes as to level of advertising?

[#Metro]

Well it has only been a few weeks. CRUCIALLY weekends and evenings are NOT included, and this is where the BUZ recorded highest growth - in the OFF peak.

*MUST* get these darn things ADVERTISED. Why don't they brand it and do it. What on earth is wrong with the marketing dept.? BUZ buses do it, but not trains. Why why why!!

Advertising is so cheap compared to the alternatives like new infrastructure or even services!

[#Metro]

Maybe we need to take vigil-ante action - someone can draw a rail CFN map, someone else make a poster... lol..

[HappyTrainGuy]

Outbound tends to be a bit more even towards the arvo services (compared to inbound) with some park and riders picking up the slack but the normal services that connect with bus routes are still way more popular. 

Pretty sure the lack of advertising issues are because of two reasons. 1: QR doesn't want to advertise translink services for free when there are other advertisers willing to pay for that same space or 2: Certain advertising spaces/signs are outsourced ie advertisers 'X','Y' and 'Z' pay advertising company 'A' who pay QR to display the advertising on their property.

[SurfRail]

Outbound tends to be a bit more even towards the arvo services (compared to inbound) with some park and riders picking up the slack but the normal services that connect with bus routes are still way more popular. 

Pretty sure the lack of advertising issues are because of two reasons. 1: QR doesn't want to advertise translink services for free when there are other advertisers willing to pay for that same space or 2: Certain advertising spaces/signs are outsourced ie advertisers 'X','Y' and 'Z' pay advertising company 'A' who pay QR to display the advertising on their property.

Who cares what QR "wants". 

Surely they would "want" more patronage more than anything else so they can justify running more trains, hence more track access fees, hence more fare revenue and a bigger budget allocation.

Prominently advertising new services is very important, and a failure to do so is really idiotic.  Picard facepalming-ly stupid.

It is more important to let people know they now have twice the number of trains for most of the day than there is a new flavour of iced tea available.

[HappyTrainGuy]

  For starters QR are the operator, not the provider which Translink is so they have the responsibility to advertise its (train/bus/ferry) services. Translink boast about how busways and railways are their networks but how many times do you see them mentioning anything about train services. You might want QR to advertise the frequency but I don't see why they should with their own pockets. They could advertise the hell out of the network but it still doesn't mean that they'll get a higher frequency thanks to Translinks pro bus/busway stance. QR only provide what Translink requests. Translink requests jack sh%t so the public gets a crappy rail service with more put into getting freight trains running on the network. BCC doesn't really advertise its buses but when they do they go about it very sneaky by mentioning extra seats, how big the fleet is, air conditioning on their buses or how many total services they provide across an entire region similar to the Government. An extra 2000 daily seats or in laymens terms 4 extra 6 car trains running. Look how much media was hyped up about their bus fleet having air conditioning. It made the 5 o'clock news, MX, Courier Mail (printed/web), BrisbaneTimes and the smaller regional newspapers. It was good and all but the only services they referred to was people catching their buses. Didn't mention anything about buz services to this suburb just people that get on their buses. Thompsons.... I've seen more ads in the paper for their charter bus services than them providing Translink services for Strathpine/Lawnton/Bray Park/Warney/Petrie. Translink put ads in the paper for its new services after the region review but they quickly dissapeared. Busways are pretty much run by them hence why they have pro bus and so much GoCard advertising plastered over all of them. Translink has money for advertising which they should put to good use. Buy advertising space at train stations but also at surrounding bus stops aswell. Advertise rail+bus interchanges. Like they are supposed to. QR used to publish advertisments in newspapers and even had tv ads about CityTrain but once Translink formed they stopped all that because Translink is the customer, not people that actually use them. Services might get popular but QR can't provide extra services because its Translink who goes through a huge process to say okay.

There are some big things QR has wanted in the past but has been knocked back on them. I guess that's now the publics loss

[Golliwog]

I know that as part of the Keperra-Ferny Grove upgrade, they letterbox dropped newsletters a few times last year (haven't heard much of late, but it is nearly over). If they ever did a final set of drops, to basically say "Completed now, car park open, yada yada" then I'd strongly push for them to include a copy of the new timetable and mention the 4tph off-peak. Not sure how far they did the drop last time, but I'd assume it'd cover Keperra, Ferny Grove, Upper Kedron and probably Ferny Hills as well.

[SurfRail]

^ HTG - how does any of that stop CSOs and station masters on the FG line (at least) printing off some A4 information sheets?  Would have been something.

TransLink is far from blameless, I agree.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Some staff do. Just depends on the station and who is schedulled to work at that station and if corporate has said anything about it.

[Golliwog]

^ HTG - how does any of that stop CSOs and station masters on the FG line (at least) printing off some A4 information sheets?  Would have been something.

TransLink is far from blameless, I agree.

I know Ferny Grove and Park Rd do/did have A4 signs about the change. The problem I had with them was they were hidden away where no one would see them. I think the Park Rd one did get moved to the side of the shelter directly in front of the bottom of the stairs on platform 2/3, but the Ferny Grove one was on the new information board on the side of the ticket office where no one looks.

[p858snake]

Not sure how far they did the drop last time, but I'd assume it'd cover Keperra, Ferny Grove, Upper Kedron and probably Ferny Hills as well.

The last one from my understanding was one about the parking, which only went under the windscreens of cars that were in the parking that day...

Mine is somewhere along the samford range because I didn't notice it till I was already half way along.

Apart from that, I don't think i've seen anything about the FG upgrade out samford way for ages, where as at toombul I used to get something in the letterbox almost weekly.

[Golliwog]

Hmmm, I think the cars got more on their windscreens than our letterbox did, but that's expected. I never got anything weekly though.

[petey3801]

Not much of an observation, but I noticed at least 20-30 pax boarding one of the new FYG-PKR services at Ferny Grove this morning around 10am or so, so people may be starting to get used to them hopefully..

[BrizCommuter]

So far BrizCommuter's observations of patronage on the extra services have been disappointing (<100 pax total). No surprise why:
- Poor advertising at stations
- No peak and no pm shoulder peak improvements (don't forget that many off-peak out trips are peak in trips, and vice versa)
- No reverse peak improvements (quite a pain in the Xmas party season)
- No evening or weekend improvements
- No improvements to other lines

Hopefully things will pick up from when uni starts again in late Feb/early March.

[#Metro]

^ I think 15 minutes to Ipswich would be better. Density at both ends, and travel in both directions all day.