SEQ Bus Network Review

[ozbob]

Twitter

Katherine Feeney ‏@katherinefeeney

Ridiculous! 30mins on the bus to move from Indro to Toowong. Driver just called depot to report he's 50mins behind schedule #bnetraffic

5:03 PM - Mar 1, 2013

===============

Katherine Feeney ‏@katherinefeeney

That's got to be the longest Indro-city commute ever. 1hr 42mins. Shocking! #bnetraffic

5:59 PM - Mar 1, 2013

================

[ozbob]

Ipswich

Nothing to report.  Haven't noticed much wrong with what is proposed for this region.   

People out this way have learned to appreciate the 515 particularly  and patronage is climbing significantly.

The rest of the routes, well an hour wait is not so bad now is it? 

Hold on ...  the phone is ringing ..

"Hello, Robert speaking ... "

"Robert, WTF, why don't we have a bus from Goodna RSL to Jupiters. It would be great hey? ... "

"This is the operator, this phone line has been damaged ... "

[newbris]

Must be hard to change an existing service but if you had to choose where to put the most frequent service the decision seems pretty clear cut:

Blue: Old 444
Red: New F26


444ToF26 by newbris, on Flickr

[ozbob]

[James]

Hi All,

I've been lurking in this forum for quite some time, but the axing of my relatively well-patronised local CBD service in the bus review has pushed me to join this forum and give my two cents on the review. Now I believe that while the bus review has had some very positive effects, especially in the western suburbs, there have been some quite dumb decisions made.

Ask anyone along Hawken Drive, Swann Road and parts of Gailey Road (and the streets which branch off them), and a major way for many of the people living in St Lucia/East Taringa to get to work is by using the 411 bus. Now as has been brought up in the bus review, the 411 has been cut entirely citing duplication.

Admittedly it is duplication, but it is to a degree duplication with reason. Its service area is within kilometres of the CBD, is well patronised all day, Toowong is a bit too close to force a change in the eyes of some, and interchange via Indooroopilly is a significant backwards step. Outside peak, especially for anybody with destinations beyond the CBD, all it will do is drive away use. In addition, transfer via Taringa for bus/train services is largely inadequate due to the hilly nature and lack of half-decent interchange facilities - especially if the loop were to head in a clockwise direction, interchange with rail services would require walking up one hill and then down it. This just leaves Indooroopilly as the interchange point.

As a resident of St Lucia, I did a trial run of using the train/bus combination via Indoooroopilly today - the only viable interchange option - and my trip took twice as long as it would by bus (about 20 mins).
Departed Queen Street Mall 4pm
(411 Bus leaves Adelaide Street 4:05pm)
Train dep. Central: 4:13pm - On-Time
--Richlands all-stops train--
(~4:20pm Bus arrives Ironside)
Train arr. Indooroopilly: 4:26pm (Bus 432 just missed - not co-ordinated)
Bus dep. Lambert Road stop: 4:48pm 7 minutes late
--Uni of Qld 428--
Bus arr. Ironside State School stop: 4:57pm
Total commute time: 57 minutes.

Even if you were to assume buses arrived 5 minutes after the trains arrived in a co-ordinated fashion and excluding the inherent lateness of some buses through Indooroopilly, the total commute time would be 40 minutes - almost double what the 411 takes in peak. I personally have three suggestions to allow for the continued inclusion of the 411 in the bus network, in order of preference.
1. Retention of 411 in its current form
Most people who I know use the 411 are fine with the route in the current form. I personally agree with them, hence see no need to change that.
2. Send the 411 down Milton Road (not via west Toowong, though)
411 down Milton Road would provide a half-decent service along Milton Road which allows for connections with Toowong, UQ and frequent bus/rail. In combination with the route to Mt Coot-Tha and with a well-designed timetable, this could allow for BUZ-like frequency along Milton Road (10 min peak/15 min off peak) while not inconveniencing anybody to any great degree. (I personally disagree with S104 continuing to Mt Coot-tha and have a more radical plan for those buses, but I won't waste forum space by posting my grand GoNetwork plan for the western suburbs).
3. Changes in the routing of S512 St Lucia Local
If neither are acceptable, at the bare minimum the bus should go via Toowong for interchange rather than Taringa, and run along Hawken Drive/Swann Rd in both directions, with loop to Toowong following the 411 route to Toowong, then going via Burns Rd and Indooroopilly Road to rejoin the current local service. This also provides a service to current 417 users in the area which isn't well, put politely, cr%p. Carmody Road does not justify a service imo - close to well-developed bus corridors in the form Hawken Drive and Sir Fred Schonell Drive, and if it weren't for bus stops you'd have no clue a bus runs along there.

Now I personally have other objections with the bus review in the Western Suburbs (I have concerns with the abolition of peak-only express routes, especially given the 444 is going via UQ), but I'd be here all night writing about them and the alternatives.

There are issues in the bus review that seriously need to be looked at. Being brushed off by Scott Emerson is not impressive though, especially given he uses the route! Guess he gets the government car to drop him at work now, while we all wait in the rain at a bus stop doing commutes which take twice as long.

[Gazza]

100% agree with you about the 411.

Yes there will be a lot of buses along Hawken Drive, but that is a very indirect way to reach the CBD.

You could either.

-Retain the 411, at its current half hourly frequency.
-Shorten the 411 back to Toowong, with people changing to a 412, 460 or Rail service to reach the CBD. If you shorten the route you could double the frequency to every 15mins.

Id kinda lean towards option 1. Either way, Hawken and Swann do warrant a direct bus to the CBD, given they are only 6.5km away from the CBD by road.

[#Metro]

My feedback so far --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=9733.0

My thread will be updates as I work through the comments.

[#Metro]

"The current service is quick, reliable, safe and comfortable. The comment that the trip from Indooroopilly station to the city will only take eight minutes is a nonsense. That does not take into account disembarking and walk to platform time, waiting for next train time, waiting for passengers to disembark from the train, and finding a seat time (Probably no seats either), train delays, and longer delays at each inbound station in peak time.) It took me 20 minutes from Toowong to Central yesterday, at the quietest time of day."

Yes, but the current service does not take into account random and huge congestion on Coronation Drive . It also does not take into account that instead of just putting everyone on the train which has just 2 staff per 1000 passengers, we have to put on multiple buses (1 staff per 65 people - far more costly per person) AND THE TRAIN which will take huge amounts of labour and cost more to carry the same people, and that money is actually going to be funding high frequency in the neighbouring suburb of CENTENARY which has NO decent service, let alone anything that resembles or comes close to a BUZ.

I can understand that no one wants to lose high frequency service one they have it, but the bus network is larger than anyone's suburb and it is not fair that places like Centenary are going to be denied service just because certain parts of the city don't want to change from a bus to a train.

People in Perth change from bus to train routinely; People at Cultural Centre change from bus to bus routinely, there's no bus from my house direct to the Valley, I have to get off the 150 and change to a 199, something that takes me a few minutes of my life. People change from bus to train at Park Road - just sit there at Boggo Road busway and watch entire buses fill up as whole lines of people walk out  of trains and straight into buses to UQ. People at Toowong walk from Toowong trains to get to buses going to UQ EVEN IN THE ABSENCE OF A PROPER BUS-TRAIN INTERCHANGE as there is no train going direct to UQ and it would cost over a billion dollars to tunnel from Toowong station to get the train to go there to go to UQ.

Sure, it might be a change, but resident's are thinking from their perspective, and what I am going to say is not going to be popular, but the city is larger than just anyone's suburb. There are many have-nots suburbs in suburban Brisbane with no decent options.

Residents are free to petition TransLink as they like, the long term solution is a bridge over the river to Riverhills - that would allow direct access to shopping at Mt Ommaney, direct access to rail and two Go Frequent Network all day routes in Centenary feeding the CBD and Rail could be extended over said bridge into Moggill. Of course, that would be a Brisbane City Council Project.

[#Metro]

I've been lurking in this forum for quite some time, but the axing of my relatively well-patronised local CBD service in the bus review has pushed me to join this forum and give my two cents on the review. Now I believe that while the bus review has had some very positive effects, especially in the western suburbs, there have been some quite dumb decisions made.

Dear SaveOurBus,

Thanks for coming on to the forum. As a person who has lived in Brisbane many years, I used to live near Hawken Drive at one stage and used the 411 to get to my work in the CBD. I have to tell you, I agree with you, and the frequency of the 411, particularly on weekends and late at night, used to infuriate me so much because it was just so darn infrequent!!

I racked up a lot of expensive taxi bills at night after work because BCC insisted on direct service buses, rather than frequency and connections and BCC's decision for single seats led to very low frequency at night (hourly I recall!)

Sometimes I would trekk to the ferry or the 412. Going to Indooroopilly is too slow and too indirect.

I agree that 411 should be retained, and it did surprise me that they suggested removing it (remember recommendations are just that - hasn't been cut yet)

The frequency of 411 could be doubled by simply halving the distance the bus has to travel - in other words, making the bus end at Toowong where people could then catch a 412 or a train (nice and frequent nowadays) to the CBD or one of the other buses around the corner.

I think the best option is to double 411 frequency by not sending this bus to the CBD and alter the service to terminate at Toowong as the 402 does now or through slight tweaking of the route to end outside Toowong train station in the bus loop that is there. That way everyone wins - double the frequency, saves money, reduces CBD congestion etc.

[#Metro]

You can see my rationale here - double the service frequency by Toowong feeder thought experiment.

Double 411 service frequency at virtually zero cost ---> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4415.0

[James]

100% agree with you about the 411.

Yes there will be a lot of buses along Hawken Drive, but that is a very indirect way to reach the CBD.

You could either.

-Retain the 411, at its current half hourly frequency.
-Shorten the 411 back to Toowong, with people changing to a 412, 460 or Rail service to reach the CBD. If you shorten the route you could double the frequency to every 15mins.

Id kinda lean towards option 1. Either way, Hawken and Swann do warrant a direct bus to the CBD, given they are only 6.5km away from the CBD by road.

I agree with the former more so than the latter. I think one big problem in getting people on board would be some are still very used to catching their 8:25am 411 (for example), hence the boost in frequency for a change at Toowong may be something which people are aversive to, especially off-peak. Aside from in core peak (7am - 9am inbound, 4pm - 6pm outbound), which ironically is where we need frequency least (to a degree), termination at Toowong will probably still drive away patronage. The big thing will be needing to change to a train/bus at Toowong. A 6 min (bus) + 6 min (transfer) + 12 min (train) just to get to Roma Street, that's a 24 minute trip at a minimum, vs. 16 mins to the stop nearest right now. Not too bad, but it's the act of transferring which will put people off.

Judging by the large signs along Hawken/Swann/Gailey Roads with 'Save Our 411 Bus' on them, aside from Sunday and late night frequency, I think that current 411 frequency is fine. But Sunday frequency all over Brisbane needs improving, unless you live on a BUZ route, Sunday = driving.

On the note of the 444, I think the biggest issue here is the users of the 444 (a lot of which are those from Chapel Hill and Kenmore, whose own bus routes are messes like the 425, 430 and so on) are used to the concept of a direct bus to the city.  I think the biggest issue, though, is that all 444 CBD-bound commuters are expected to transfer to a train. My main concern with this issue, however, is if this is done to all current 444s, we are going to see huge amounts of people changing trains at Indooroopilly - my main concern being if there is the capacity at the current interchange for that to occur. And Frequent 26 in my opinion might not cut the mustard - it may be already full by the time it reaches Indooroopilly. I just have a gut feeling that come the implementation of these changes, we will see all hell break loose at Indooroopilly Bus Interchange, and the pedestrian traffic at the bus stop between the current Uni of Qld buses stop and the station reach proportions which the footpath space won't cope with.

[ozbob]

Welcome aboard SaveOurBus ...  not all cuts are rational ..   

[#Metro]

I agree with the former more so than the latter. I think one big problem in getting people on board would be some are still very used to catching their 8:25am 411 (for example), hence the boost in frequency for a change at Toowong may be something which people are aversive to, especially off-peak. Aside from in core peak (7am - 9am inbound, 4pm - 6pm outbound), which ironically is where we need frequency least (to a degree), termination at Toowong will probably still drive away patronage. The big thing will be needing to change to a train/bus at Toowong. A 6 min (bus) + 6 min (transfer) + 12 min (train) just to get to Roma Street, that's a 24 minute trip at a minimum, vs. 16 mins to the stop nearest right now. Not too bad, but it's the act of transferring which will put people off.

As somone who used the 411 for many years, well I have to disagree with you here. 30 minute frequency is awful, and the weekend service is terrible for a location so close the the city and with a Uni at one end. People's habits are not physical constants that are unchangable and set in stone, and I notice that many people already do make a bus to train interchange at Toowong for the 402 and 412 services. So one would have to explain what is so special about 411 users as different to 412 or 402 (an entire busload changes in the case of 402 which terminates at Toowong) users that already use Toowong trains that they are so profoundly unable to walk that they cannot change.  People already make the changes at Toowong. If for any reason people can't, then they can get a 412, which is slated for frequency boosting.

With a doubling of frequency of the 411 at virtually zero cost, mobility is greatly increased. Remember not everybody is going to the CBD - some people are going to work at Toowong, major local employment hub, these people will save 15 minutes in journey travel times.

It takes approximately 9 minutes for an all stops train to go from Toowong to the CBD (central), the 411 bus takes 8 minutes, but this is highly variable as the train has its own tracks separated from congestion and the bus does not and is impacted by traffic lights, congestion and road accidents and rain. The trade off is lower frequency by 15 minutes and direct service or significantly higher frequency but making a connection.

Doubling the frequency will cut the waiting time in half - that is service every 30 minutes to every 15 minutes. I'd rather spend 6 minutes making a connection than waiting half an hour for my service, and because the service is a feeder, it can be co-ordinated with city bound trains in the off peak so that connection times are minimised.

411 bus timetable
http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/network-information/timetables/110606-411.pdf

Ipswich line timetable
http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/network-information/timetables/120723-ipswich-rosewood-line.pdf

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

15th March 2013

Media hysteria re bus route 172 and Greenslopes Hospital

Greetings,

I am a disabled DVA veteran who regularly attends Greenslopes hospital for treatment.

It may come as a surprise to some, but there is a shuttle bus that runs regularly from the Busway Station at Greenslopes to the hospital.  Details here --> http://www.greenslopesprivate.com.au/For-Visitors/public-transport.aspx which is used both by patients and visitors to the hospital.

Disabled veterans also have DVA transport arrangements, which is from their home to the hospital as needed.  They don't have to walk in from Logan Road at all, although some choose to do that and I do on occasion by choice.  Active transport is good for you!

The shuttle bus is excellent as it allows people to catch the very frequent buses on the busway.  The 172 bus runs hourly, and it is not well patronised at all.  I have used all options and the shuttle bus is by far the best option.

Before beating up an issue it would be considerate for the wider community to actually do some basic research.

Best wishes
Robert


Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[#Metro]

Sorry, but I disagree with you. Connection is actually faster and where is why:

1. Improved frequency from shorter bus trip cuts journey time radically.

Direct Service

30 minute bus frequency (waiting time) + 25 minute trip to Adelaide street stop 22

= 55 minutes total journey time (coronation drive congestion not included)

As a feeder service terminating at toowong

15 minute bus frequency + 6 minute walk across road + 15 minute wait for train (maximum, average wait will be less than this for most) + 9 minute rail trip to Central

= 44 minutes journey time

The absolute maximum total journey time is 45 minutes (feeder to Toowong) versus 55 minutes
(direct service). A connection is faster by up to 10 minutes, simply because with a
connection waiting time is radically cut and the higher overall frequency provided for the same fixed budget. Most people will experience faster trips with connection because the wait for train will be 15 minutes at worst, and half the people will experience waits half of this.

Why campaign for worse service to your local area?

Does everyone know in that area that keeping the 411 the way it is will give them service that is 10 minutes slower compared to improvements? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. And we haven't even included the possibility of Coronation Drive congestion.
I note that the train goes to Auchenflower, Milton etc where passengers get on/off and the most recent timetable review also added lots more capacity (thousands of more seats) in peak hour, so there should be capacity.

Passengers for jobs at Toowong shopping centre will save 15 minutes!! A neat example of the implementation of http://www.humantransit.org/2009/04/why-transferring-is-good-for-you-and-good-for-your-city.html

Image

[minbrisbane]

I'm on 186 to the city right now.  Someone has travelled along the route and put up information at each of the bus stops. 

I spoke to a few of my fellow passengers about it, it seems misinformation is a big problem.  'The S400 will take too long to get to the city' or when told about transferring: 'transferring will add at least 20 minutes (wait) to my time'.  People love their one-seat journey huh!

I'm supportive of the removal, as long as there are reasonably frequent counter-peak  services to GC to give interchange half a chance. 

[#Metro]

Translink needs to get on the ground people talking about the changes ASAP. If people don't know what the proposals are then others will just make up the information. This is a big change going from direct service to connected, expecting to sit behind a website is not a good idea.

If you can take a photo of the sign and post, that would be great. 20 minutes doesnt sound right.

[ozbob]

612 ABC Brisbane Mornings with Steve Austin

Concerns about loss of bus routes

15 March 2013 , 10:29 AM by Sally Rope

Over the last few week there have been many proposed changes to Brisbane's public transport.

Bus routes and fares have been the main focus, with many people concerned about the loss of services

Robert Dow from 'Rail Back on Track' is heading into a meeting this morning as part of the Government's Public Transport advisory group. Steve Austin spoke to him this morning...

Click --> here!

[nathandavid88]

Translink needs to get on the ground people talking about the changes ASAP. If people don't know what the proposals are then others will just make up the information. This is a big change going from direct service to connected, expecting to sit behind a website is not a good idea.

Very true! The amount of lack of information and disinformation I've heard surrounding these changes are incredible. I hear people refer to it as the latest example of the LNP "cutting public services" and people thinking that bus drivers will be sacked and the buses will sit idle in a depo somewhere, while people will need to drive everywhere! 

What I want to see is Translink take the pages from the review that cover the different sub areas, which are quite well described, and then dumb down the changes to dot points or info-graphics that will simply and easily display the changes and the pros of these changes over the status quo (less empty buses, better spread of services city wide). Get the real info out there!

[bagbuffy]

Sorry, but I disagree with you. Connection is actually faster and where is why:

1. Improved frequency from shorter bus trip cuts journey time radically.

Direct Service

30 minute bus frequency (waiting time) + 25 minute trip to Adelaide street stop 22

= 55 minutes total journey time (coronation drive congestion not included)

As a feeder service terminating at toowong

15 minute bus frequency + 6 minute walk across road + 15 minute wait for train (maximum, average wait will be less than this for most) + 9 minute rail trip to Central

= 44 minutes journey time

The absolute maximum total journey time is 45 minutes (feeder to Toowong) versus 55 minutes
(direct service). A connection is faster by up to 10 minutes, simply because with a
connection waiting time is radically cut and the higher overall frequency provided for the same fixed budget. Most people will experience faster trips with connection because the wait for train will be 15 minutes at worst, and half the people will experience waits half of this.

Why campaign for worse service to your local area?

Does everyone know in that area that keeping the 411 the way it is will give them service that is 10 minutes slower compared to improvements? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. And we haven't even included the possibility of Coronation Drive congestion.
I note that the train goes to Auchenflower, Milton etc where passengers get on/off and the most recent timetable review also added lots more capacity (thousands of more seats) in peak hour, so there should be capacity.

Passengers for jobs at Toowong shopping centre will save 15 minutes!! A neat example of the implementation of http://www.humantransit.org/2009/04/why-transferring-is-good-for-you-and-good-for-your-city.html

Image

Currently  411 Qld Uni Dep 9.25am arrive City (Adelaide St) 9.50am (25min Travel Time)

Purposed  411 Qld Uni Dep 9.25am arrive Toowong 9.35am-6min Walk-Train Depart 9.56am
-Arrive Central 10.05am-5-7min walk to (Adeliade St) 10.12am  (47min Travel Time) 

Depending if the purposed is 411 early and if your able to run and then hoping that the  train is late or on time there would be possibility to catch the 9.41am train from Toowong arriving at Central at 9.50am the the 5-7 min walk to Adelaide st.  Arriving at 9.55am-9.57am.  (Very tight connection  everything must be in the commuters favour for the connection to happen)

Even if the 411 departs at 9.20am at its very best with connections, it would still take between 30-40min Travel time.  Where as the current 411 no connections 25mins.

[Gazza]

imagine we draw a line east west from Indro.


Anyone below that line like the 444 and 433 shouls change.

Anyone above, like the 411 and 416 should retain direct cbd trips, even if it is less frequent IMO.

[somebody]

I'm on 186 to the city right now.  Someone has travelled along the route and put up information at each of the bus stops. 

I spoke to a few of my fellow passengers about it, it seems misinformation is a big problem.  'The S400 will take too long to get to the city' or when told about transferring: 'transferring will add at least 20 minutes (wait) to my time'.  People love their one-seat journey huh!

I'm supportive of the removal, as long as there are reasonably frequent counter-peak  services to GC to give interchange half a chance.

186 is one bus I'd be in favour of keeping.  The alternative is far, far slower.  Perhaps it could add stops at Holland Park West and Greenslopes I/B though

[#Metro]

" Thank you Brisbane City Council and TransLink for the 161 'Paris Hilton' Rocket!"

And just remember, Don't Cut My Bus!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Hilton%2C_Paris_%282007%29.jpg

[James]

As somone who used the 411 for many years, well I have to disagree with you here. 30 minute frequency is awful, and the weekend service is terrible for a location so close the the city and with a Uni at one end. People's habits are not physical constants that are unchangable and set in stone, and I notice that many people already do make a bus to train interchange at Toowong for the 402 and 412 services. So one would have to explain what is so special about 411 users as different to 412 or 402 (an entire busload changes in the case of 402 which terminates at Toowong) users that already use Toowong trains that they are so profoundly unable to walk that they cannot change.  People already make the changes at Toowong. If for any reason people can't, then they can get a 412, which is slated for frequency boosting.

etc.

I beg to differ. 30 minute frequency is acceptable. Not good, but I (along with most others) can live with it.  People change to rail at Toowong because it is impossible for people who live far afield to get a rocket to their doorstep, and going via Toowong is the faster way to get to the railway line (especially heading inbound). With the advent of UniGlider though, I suspect non-Caboolture/Ipswich line customers will use UniGlider to get to rail/CBD. Also remember the amount of students who live in the area, and how the 402 copes with overflow between Toowong and UQ. 402 is also essentially a 412 short-running.

I'm not against Toowong interchange (but believe it could be better accomplished via S512 St Lucia Local modifications), but I know arguing for it and telling everyone it is better will be a tough ask.

imagine we draw a line east west from Indro.

Anyone below that line like the 444 and 433 shouls change.

Anyone above, like the 411 and 416 should retain direct cbd trips, even if it is less frequent IMO.

444 is another thing that I don't think should be terminated at Indro, especially if P443 (or its equivalent) is not extended to run every 10 mins between 6am-9am to City/3pm - 6pm from City, maybe higher in core peak. Yes, buses are slower, but due to rail inaction by almost every single level of government, especially when Sector 2 makes services as frequent as they can possibly be, there is little rolling stock left. My concern is if full buses start feeding intro trains at Indro, we are going to have all manner of hell, especially with the inadequate interchange facility. And looking into my crystal ball, knowing government, idiocy will strike and someone will decide a City-Indro bus shuttle in peak, out of all things. Maybe even off-peak - bearing in mind 24 buses per hour go to the City from Indro off-peak (waste on wheels!), and unless there is decent interchange facilities with rail provided, people will keep catching buses, and the Frequent 26 will just be running past intermediate stops full.

Problems of overcrowding exist to a much lower measure on all the other western suburbs routes, so I have little concern about forcing them to change - especially if it allows for frequency boosts.

416 is another thing. I think it may not be unintelligent to combine the 415+416 and turn it into a west Taringa/Toowong shuttle which goes to the CBD in peak. This is one of those 'wastes a bit of money, but has a tendency to carry air' routes which needs to be kept in some form.

[#Metro]

Currently  411 Qld Uni Dep 9.25am arrive City (Adelaide St) 9.50am (25min Travel
Time)

Purposed  411 Qld Uni Dep 9.25am arrive Toowong 9.35am-6min Walk-Train Depart 9.56am
-Arrive Central 10.05am-5-7min walk to (Adeliade St) 10.12am  (47min Travel Time)

Depending if the purposed is 411 early and if your able to run and then hoping that the
train is late or on time there would be possibility to catch the 9.41am train from Toowong
arriving at Central at 9.50am the the 5-7 min walk to Adelaide st.  Arriving at
9.55am-9.57am.  (Very tight connection  everything must be in the commuters favour for the
connection to happen)

Even if the 411 departs at 9.20am at its very best with connections, it would still take
between 30-40min Travel time.  Where as the current 411 no connections 25mins.

Dear Bagbuffy.

Thanks for your post. The calculation doesn't account for the impact of improved frequency.

The direct service 411 leaves UQ at 9:25 AM and reaches Adelaide Street stop 22 (outside
city hall) and just approx a hundred meters from the front door of Central Station reaches
the CBD on a good day at 9:50 AM.

Under direct service, this bus takes 25 minutes to get to the CBD. But the service before
it leaves at 9:05, so you actually have to wait for a full 20 minutes to see the next bus,
which means that the maximum journey time, particularly if you just turned up at the bus
stop actually is this:

20 minute wait 25 minute trip to the CBD (Cross fingers that your name isn't Katherine
Feeny) = 45 minutes

Under a connected network scenario a new feeder 411 service which would only exist with
a connection- comes into existence 10 minutes *before* the 9:25 AM 411 departs UQ
Chancellors Place and picks up the passenger waiting, so the waiting time is just 10
minutes, half of what it is with a direct connection.

This new feeder 411, which pops into existence under connections, reaches Toowong at 9:25
AM. (Under a direct service scenario, the passenger is still be waiting at UQ)

The passenger takes 6 minutes to walk into Toowong Station. So the time now is 9:31. The
next train is at 9:41 and the trip to Central takes just 9 minutes, dropping the passenger
at Central at 9:50 AM

SO, under connections:

9:15 AM 10 minute wait ends
10 minute bus trip to toowong
6 minute walk
10 minute wait
9 minute train trip
Central 9:50 AM

= 45 minutes, which is the same as direct 411 bus, because waiting time at the bus stop was cut

Importantly there are benefits from a feeder service rather than a direct service:

*With a connection OFF PEAK frequency is BUZ standard: In the off peak, the 411 is running at 30 minute frequency, the feeder is running at 15 minute frequency, so there is more of a time saving in the off peak.

* With a connection the service is more reliable: The train is FAR more reliable. Bus is so unreliable that the bus reliability statistics are an embarrassment and they have now stopped publishing them to stop attracting attention. Also, because the bus stops short of Coronation Drive, all hell can break loose on Coro, and there will be less of an impact on this service.

*Did I say more reliable? Coronation Drive is one of the worst, possibly THE WORST road in Brisbane (ask Katherine
Feeney, Brisbaneimes Journalist)

*More convenience and flexibility with connection The new serivce is more convenient and gives people far more choices of when to
depart. Throw away your timetable! In peak hour, the direct bus is running at horrible 20
minute frequency, this connected bus is running every 10 minutes!!

* The new feeder will save 15 minutes in the off peak for locals, which is important for people who
work locally at Toowong Shopping Centre (like students, of which there are heaps in that
area) as not everyone is going to the CBD or just want do do shopping at Toowong.

* No timetable required (except maybe late at night)

I know that people say "people wont transfer" but all I say to people like that is, Go
ride 402 which does EXACTLY THIS!! Half the load of 412 gets off at Toowong and changes to
other buses and to trains.

Sorry, but all calls for direct service to the CBD for the 411 should be rejected,
outright IMHO.


Edit: Clarity, wordiness.

[#Metro]

I'm not against Toowong interchange (but believe it could be better accomplished via S512 St Lucia Local modifications), but I know arguing for it and telling everyone it is better will be a tough ask.

I don't deny it will be difficult, but try selling them another 20% fare increase. The last state government lost the election on this one. The waste just cannot continue.

[hU0N]

I don't agree with the rationale for moving the current 385 to Waterworks Rd rather than Coopers Camp Rd.  The rationale being that people cannot remember 3 route numbers 379, 380 and 381 to reach the inner part of Waterworks Rd.  I completely disagree with this line of thought; people can remember three consecutive numbers. 
Sorta agree. The Go Network branding should extend to showing common coridoors on the network map and having those special bus poles...Much like the Adelaide Go Zones and the Red and Blue line in Canberra.

This is my number 1 criticism.  Specifically that for most existing common corridor routes (like 379/380/381), one gets converted to HF, the others to local feeders running at reduced frequency.  Which doesn't make sense to me because none of the route tails beyond the Gap Village actually need HF.  The outcome is the few people living along the 385 route tail get HF direct service to the city, everyone else in The Gap gets a sub-HF milk run with a forced transfer if you actually want to go anywhere.

I think a much better solution (wherever the opportunity reasonably exists), would be to subroute the frequent route, and use branding etc to address legibility.

Jindalee feeder service requires a long trip at a 90 degree angle to the direction to the city to reach rail line and then the city.  This will not be attractive either.
No worse than present situation, well better acutally cos they got rid of the 467/468 distinction.  My route actually.

This is another example of this.  Off peak service to Mt Ommaney is broadly quite frequent and direct (453,454,460), but a bit of a mess in the details.  I don't think that you improve things much by promoting the 454 to HF while cancelling the 453 in favour of the sub-HF 467.  The outcome is the same as at the Gap.  People living on the 454 route tail get HF that probably isn't necessary, and people on the 453 route tail get a sub-HF milk run with a forced transfer if you want to go anywhere.

Again, I think a much better solution would be sub-routing the F26 to give HF as far as Mt Ommaney and then sub-HF direct service along the various route tails beyond.  (This would require a reversal of the 453 service direction of course).  The S503 would still provide feeder service from 17MR to Oxley, and then without having to wind through Jindalee, it could connect more directly to Mt Ommaney (which is where people travelling in that direction are going anyway).

In short, while I think that a network built around transfers is a better thing than the giant wagon wheel that we have at the moment, this doesn't automatically make transfers a good thing.  Instead, it elevates them to the status of necessary evil.  Include them where they must be included for connectivity and for the sake of network design, but the way they have been included at the outer limits of the frequent network seems to me to be a bit unnecessary and counter productive.

[#Metro]

This is my number 1 criticism.  Specifically that for most existing common corridor routes (like 379/380/381), one gets converted to HF, the others to local feeders running at reduced frequency.  Which doesn't make sense to me because none of the route tails beyond the Gap Village actually need HF.  The outcome is the few people living along the 385 route tail get HF direct service to the city, everyone else in The Gap gets a sub-HF milk run with a forced transfer if you actually want to go anywhere.

I agree with this. Loops (BLERGH!!), better to do what they do in canberra and have the line branded but the individual routes peel off the line (i.e. blue line, gold line, green line)

Example ---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACTION#Blue_Rapid

[somebody]

BTW, 453/454 don't operate on weekends.  Also they don't coordinate.  So while there is a 4bph frequency weekday interpeak, there are still 28 minute gaps to Mt Ommaney.  But Brisbane Transport and Translink are awesome at what they do.

[ozbob]

This week on 7.30 Queensland

This week the program looks at putting the pain of public transport under State Government review, and also at Katter's Australian Party in turmoil.

7.30pm ABC 15th March 2013 - on ABC One

Promo --> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-14/730-qld-promo/4574086?section=qld

[somebody]

The story was more about fares.

They mentioned that "some" are still calling for daily and weekly tickets. 

[ozbob]

Yes, good segment.  I assume the daily weekly stuff came from the vox pops ...

I thought there might have been something on the bus stuff as well.  Maybe another time ...

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

16th March 2013

Some media on the bus review and fares

Greetings,

The bus review is the best thing to happen to public transport in SEQ since the introduction of integrated paper ticketing in 2004.  Based on sound principles the review will reposition our public transport for a better future.

There is a feedback period to fine tune secondary bus routes in particular.  Readers should be encouraged to give feedback but they should also take the time to explore what is actually happening, rather than just respond in a knee-jerk fashion.  Constructive feedback either via the web process ( http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review ) or telephone 131230 is to be encouraged.

==================

612 ABC Brisbane Mornings with Steve Austin

Concerns about loss of bus routes

15 March 2013 , 10:29 AM by Sally Rope

Over the last few week there have been many proposed changes to Brisbane's public transport.

Bus routes and fares have been the main focus, with many people concerned about the loss of services

Robert Dow from 'Rail Back on Track' is heading into a meeting this morning as part of the Government's Public Transport advisory group. Steve Austin spoke to him this morning...

-->  http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2013/03/concerns-about-loss-of-bus-routes.html?site=brisbane&program=612_morning

==================

ABC News

SE Qld public transport among the most expensive in the world

A State Government review of public transport in South East Qld wants input on the future of fares.

--> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-15/se-qld-public-transport-among-the-most-expensive/4577076

==================

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

The 529 bus Ipswich <-> Toogoolawah  remains intact as well.

http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-529.png

There are no changes recommended at this time. This route provides an important local connection for rural centres such as Esk and Lowood to Ipswich

[SurfRail]

I'm only doing detailed commentary on Gold Coast routes this time - I have made some suggestions for other people's responses for other areas.

My thoughts set out in the attached.  If anybody wants to add to this, post your thoughts and I will send it off to the team in a few days time.

[somebody]

765 - Christine Ave, not Christine Drive.

[#Metro]

Could Moggill BUZ be saved for just $1??? financial analysis/estimate here ---> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=9733.msg122071#msg122071

Also, rates are low (apparently) , see here ---> http://www.adrianschrinner.com.au/mobile/News/tabid/101/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/263/Brisbane-ratepayers-pay-the-lowest-rates.aspx

[#Metro]

Auckland, latest ---> http://transportblog.co.nz/2013/03/16/te-atatu-bus-interchange/

The new bus network as proposed in the draft Regional Public Transport Plan received a large amount of support from the general public so it is a good bet that it will become a reality. The biggest changes it makes is that it relies on more people transferring to get to destinations but in return a much larger number of high frequency routes are able to be provided. The map below shows all the routes which will have a frequency of 15 minutes or better from 7am to 7pm, 7 days a week.

The network is expected to start rolling out later this year and will take around 3 years to complete. One of the key requirements to the success of the system will be around the interchange points and making it as easy as possible for passengers to change.

[#Metro]

TransLink Vancouver videos --- why no YouTube channel TL???

[HappyTrainGuy]

Quick. Register the Youtube account TranslinkSEQ!!!!