SEQ Bus Network Review

[Mr X]

Jesus!! We have the 200, 201, 202, 203, 204, P205, P206, P207, P208, 209, 217, 222 and 250 all serving one general area?? Give me a break!! I challenge anyone to find a member of the public who actually knows the difference between all these routes. It's obscene!

Agree about the 196, 199 and cityglider stopping patterns. It's even worse in the city. Some stops are served by the 196 and the CG but not the 199, some are served by all 3 and some are served by the 196 and the 199 but not the cityglider! So confusing.

[cartoonbirdhaus]

Even the 196 and 199 don't share all their stops.

Whereabouts is this the case? I didn't know there were any really (except stops adjacent to each other on Adelaide St—tolerable, if not ideal).

[kazzac]

Even the 196 and 199 don't share all their stops. Throw in the Cityglider for even more variation confusion.

Old Cleveland Rd duplications are a complete joke! There's 200, 203, 204, P206, P207, 209, 217, 222, 250, with a mix of stops served. Seriously, do we need that many routes on a common corridor? Probably even worse than 13x and 14x on Mains Rd.

Even Carindale buses going via the Chatswood Rd and Winstanley St corridor have their own inconsistent mess. P201 is non stop Buranda-Carindale. 202 is a complete milk run trying to serve Highgate Hill, Dutton Park, PAH and wander the streets behind Winstanley St. P208 at least cuts this short via Buranda Busway but only has 3 services per peak period. P205 makes a few stops along the SAME section expressed by P201, but does not stop at the interchange. The 202 really needs to be chopped up into separate routes. Think local feeders and a frequent, LEGIBLE spine down Chatswood Rd and Winstanley St, then onto the busway at Buranda.

there"s more routes along Old Cleveland Road than I realized,WAY too many.200 or 222 should be deleted to provide a 230 BUZ or a Wynnum RD BUZ!!

[WTN]

Even the 196 and 199 don't share all their stops.

Whereabouts is this the case? I didn't know there were any really (except stops adjacent to each other on Adelaide St—tolerable, if not ideal).

The 199 has a stop to itself opposite City Hall. It's the next one on from the Cityglider/196 stop. The 199 is also a stop apart from the 196 outside Anzac Square Arcade. Yes it's tolerable but odd. Cityglider is far worse. It doesn't stop outside Anzac Square Arcade, but 100m away! But on the other side, it shares its stop with the 196 and 199 at Post Office Square. Go figure!

[WTN]

there"s more routes along Old Cleveland Road than I realized,WAY too many.200 or 222 should be deleted to provide a 230 BUZ or a Wynnum RD BUZ!!
[/quote]

Definitely. Excessive routes should be converted to feeders or axed completely. The money saved should go towards straightening and BUZing arterial road routes.

[BrizCommuter]

From RCH Herston to Enoggera your options are
- 333/376 to Windsor then train
- Bus (330/333/340/66) to Normanby then other bus (390/350/351/357/359) to Enoggera

I know which option looks better to me.

Or walk to Windsor, Bowen Hills, or FV then train
Or 370/375/379 from RBWH to FV, then train

330/333/340/66 then 390 is still much faster than any via train routes unless BrizCommuter just misses a 390.

Theoretical (at 20 trains per hour, one departure from Central every 3 minutes with all FG trains leaving 3 and other services leaving 4, Doomben train follows the Airport train and Shorncliffe trains should not have a huge impact on the express pattern):

5:00    Ferny Grove
5:03    Airport
5:06    Doomben
5:09    Ferny Grove
5:12    Shorncliffe
5:15    Ferny Grove
5:18    Airport
5:21    Doomben
5:24    Ferny Grove
5:27    Shorncliffe
5:30    Ferny Grove
5:33    Airport
5:36    Doomben
5:39    Ferny Grove
5:42    Shorncliffe
5:45    Ferny Grove
5:48    Airport
5:51    Doomben
5:54    Ferny Grove
5:57    Shorncliffe
6:00    Ferny Grove

Current (any corrections would be appreciated):
5:03    Ferny Grove
5:07    Shorncliffe
5:08    Airport
5:13    Doomben
5:17    Ferny Grove express
5:21    Shorncliffe express
5:24    Ferny Grove
5:31    Mitchelton
5:35    Ferny Grove
5:38    Shorncliffe
5:38    Airport
5:46     Ferny Grove
5:55    Shorncliffe
5:57     Ferny Grove
6:00    Doomben

BrizCommuter's expectations are something similar for the am peak in the other direction. In the pm peak, I doubt we will be seeing the alternate 6-9min pm peak service to FG for much of the pm peak fare period.

Will the stage 2 rail timetables be introduced anytime this financial year? No mention in state budget. Will it even be introduced in conjunction with the new bus network?

Also, still no 15 min off-peak for FG on the journey planner, which is now up to mid-October.

[somebody]

330/333/340/66 then 390 is still much faster than any via train routes unless BrizCommuter just misses a 390.

You've also got the 351/357/359 routes unless you are going west of Wardell St.

[ozbob]

Please note the survey has been moved from Zoomerang to a Queensland Government domain.

New address for actual survey is --> https://www.getinvolved.qld.gov.au/gi/consultation/614/survey/809/view.html

[techblitz]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/seq-bus-network-review-public.html
BrizCommuter's view on the SEQ Bus Network Review.

390, lol, never knew about the route till now.

Duplicates a BUZ for the first half, and a rail line for the other half. That's a special kind of winning.

BrizCommuter usually uses the 390 in the pm peak, as it's considerably faster and more frequent than using the Ferny Grove Line to Enoggera. Fix the Ferny Grove Line's frequency (which has multiple 20min+ pm peak gaps) and BrizCommuter may go back to using the train.

The 390 is very popular as an all stops route where it parallels the limited stops 345. Eliminating the 390 would require another bus to serve all stops.

Upon listening into other passengers conversations it seems that many other passengers also use the 390 (and 345 to Alderley) due to the abysmal train service.

the 390 nighlink service is also popular with plenty of pax still on board after keperra along samford rd.

[ozbob]

From the TransLink News 3rd October 2012

SEQ bus network review update

In July this year, the Minister for Transport and Main Roads announced a review of TransLink's SEQ bus network to improve frequency, reliability and affordability.

From Monday 10 September to Sunday 23 September, passengers were asked to get involved in the review by completing a Service Review Form.

We received more than 4,000 review forms and would like to thank everyone who participated.

Read more about the next stages of the review.

[cartoonbirdhaus]

A massive review of Auckland's bus system is in the pipeline for 2016. The plan (which The Guru Jarrett Walker has a hand in, BTW) is to reduce the number of routes from 300+ to 120 or so, and create high frequencies and decent operating hours with no more resources than at present. (Although a factor in this is that the rail system will have trains every 10-15 minutes on most lines, come electrification.) Let's see how the imminent review for SEQ measures up against this...

http://www.aucklandtransport.govt.nz/improving-transport/plans-proposals/IntegratedTravel/Pages/regional-public-transport-plan-2012.aspx

[techblitz]

I wander how the review is going. Are there any confirmed dates about the next stages?

so anyone have any predictions?

eg: great circle adjustment?
      carindale bus routes merged?
      bus route deletions/extensions?

[ozbob]

77 

[ozbob]

http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/details/1346370543

SEQ Bus Network Review

Last updated: 9.43am Thursday 4 October 2012

Help us build a better network

In July this year, the Minister for Transport and Main Roads announced a review of TransLink's South East Queensland bus network to improve service frequency, reliability and affordability.

From Monday 10 September to Sunday 23 September, passengers were asked to get involved in the review by completing a Service Review Form.

This opportunity for feedback has now closed and we would like to thank everyone that got involved.

TransLink is now reviewing this feedback and working with our delivery partners to provide some recommended options. Passengers will have another opportunity to provide their feedback before any changes are implemented.

We'll keep you updated via this website and TransLink staff out on the network.

[kazzac]

when will there be a Bulimba/Balmoral BUZ service??

[#Metro]

Give it time. There are 220 bus routes in Brisbane alone, theres Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast and Ipswich on top of that. Even at one bus route reviewed and redesigned per day, that's almost AN ENTIRE YEAR, so if anything, I would worry about too soon - rushed report and tweaking at the edges rather than the proper total and complete 'Auckland style' mega overhaul.

It would be very disappointing if the network came back looking much the same...

[ozbob]

Media release 15th October 2012

SEQ: Fix up transport to keep Brisbane and SEQ internationally competitive

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport users has highlighted Auckland, NZ's review of their transport network. A high frequency connection-based bus network is likely to be rolled out in four years.



Image: Alan Davies blog. Auckland direct network (left) versus connection-based network (right).
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/files/2012/10/Auckland-2016-FSN-Small1.jpg


Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Auckland New Zealand shares many features with Brisbane. Both cities are in the middle of major public transport reviews. Both cities have very large councils, the product of large-scale amalgamation. In both cities, the local council has some form of control over the funding and organisation of public transport. The urban form is much the same - large, dispersed and sprawling, both cities have busways and both cities are home to some of the lowest frequency train services in the developed world."

"Auckland is also a direct competitor for jobs, tourism and businesses against Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne and is working hard to increase its livability and transport systems to lure workers and businesses with a cosmopolitan, livable city lifestyle and decent, well run public services."

"Like Brisbane, the Auckland Council is conducting a major review of the entire bus network, hiring top-level consultants to overhaul the bus system. We think TransLink could take note of the radical changes proposed for Auckland's bus system and trains. Here at RAIL Back on Track we often emphasise the need to move from the 'every bus must go direct to the city' and look at a more connections-based network. If there are any politicians in doubt about the merits of a connection based network, just take a look at the image of direct service network versus one based on connections, which runs at no additional cost."

"Most rail lines in Auckland are also proposed to have a major frequency upgrade in 2016, the year our Merivale Bridge will run out of train capacity because the previous administration responsible didn't plan. Auckland will have trains every 10 minutes OFF PEAK all day, with only one line having 30 minute frequency."

"Simply put, the transport review is a great opportunity to defend Brisbane and South East Queensland's international competitiveness for lifestyle and jobs. Failure to introduce Train Upgrade Zones (TUZ) and radically overhaul the bus system will leave Brisbane with the title that Auckland currently holds - the city with the worst train system in the developed world.

"As RAIL Back on Track has always said, services must be frequent, bottom line! We look forward to the results of the bus review."

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

References:

1. Paul Mees titles Auckland's Train system 'the worst urban rail system of any city of any developed
country in the world'.

2. Auckland Rail Timetable Draft Regional Public Transport Plan showing 10 minute trains
(Melbourne already has introduced 10 minute trains as well, and there is a committment from METRO
to roll this out to almost all lines as funding and infrastructure permits)
http://transportblog.co.nz/2012/10/04/october-rail-timetable-changes/

3. SEQ: Core Frequent Network: Policy on core frequency & operating hours required
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5784.msg52747#msg52747

4. SEQ: Improving transfer opportunities, improves the integration of the TransLink Network
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4363.msg33219#msg33219

5. Draft Auckland Regional Transport Plan
http://www.aucklandtransport.govt.nz/improving-transport/plans-proposals/IntegratedTravel/Pages/regional-public-transport-plan-2012.aspx

6. What can Auckland tell us about doing public transport better?
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2012/10/14/what-can-auckland-tell-us-about-doing-public-transport-better/

"Australian cities could learn a lot from the 'anywhere at anytime' public transport network proposed by Auckland Transport for implementation within just four years"
- Alan Davies

7. Auckland: how network redesign can transform a city's possibilities
http://www.humantransit.org/2012/10/auckland-how-network-redesign-can-transform-a-citys-possibilities.html

[SurfRail]

Give it time. There are 220 bus routes in Brisbane alone, theres Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast and Ipswich on top of that. Even at one bus route reviewed and redesigned per day, that's almost AN ENTIRE YEAR, so if anything, I would worry about too soon - rushed report and tweaking at the edges rather than the proper total and complete 'Auckland style' mega overhaul.

It would be very disappointing if the network came back looking much the same...

The Gold Coast is also going to be more finicky because of the need to design something which can be transitioned over to work with the light rail system in 2014.  I know that the next bus upgrade package (whatever it involved) is intended to be the last prior to the system opening.

Incidentally, GCCC is releasing its 2031 Transport Strategy today - link is here: http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/have-your-say-on-our-transport-future-12160.html

[O_128]

when will there be a Bulimba/Balmoral BUZ service??

who knows. BCC seems to prefer giving people living unsustainably far out of the CBD or not even living in BCC BUZ routes before people in the inner suburbs.

[Jonno]

when will there be a Bulimba/Balmoral BUZ service??

who knows. BCC seems to prefer giving people living unsustainably far out of the CBD or not even living in BCC BUZ routes before people in the inner suburbs.

+100000 same goes for the roads they are providing ... Sadly enough!!!

[Fattious]

I've stopped catching the lack luster 227 Wynnum Road service from Morningisde to the CBD return, due to lack of frequency.

I've been driving to the citycat at Hawthorne. It is about the same commute time, but with a turn up and go rather than schedule around 15 or 30 minute peak frequency. Citycat is also a more comfortable ride.

The 227 also gets heavily loaded with Shafston College students.

[techblitz]

bottom line is that they are hesitant about introducing a buz service for bulimba/hawthorne/balmoral for some underlying reason.There is something there which detracts them from implementing it.
People have been screaming out for one for ages yet why arent they considering it?
Im gonna take a wild guess and say that the popular citycat/393 combination may have something to do with it and the anticipated patronage numbers from balmoral,hawthorne simply will not be enough to warrant buz frequency.They will probably wait until the 393/citycat hits capacity (even overcrowding status) before considering a buz.

[SurfRail]

Personally I think it's because it's Shayne Sutton's ward.  There's no other logical reason.

[techblitz]

Personally I think it's because it's Shayne Sutton's ward.  There's no other logical reason.

agreed,
a fresh face in the council could help things along...

[#Metro]

I agree. Service is terrible! Bulimba could do with a Bulimba Glider for all the restaurants and movie cinemas in the suburb along with huge parking issues. It is very active place well into the night.

[Gazza]

Personally I think it's because it's Shayne Sutton's ward.  There's no other logical reason.

It's an LNP seat though? Any locals want to go and organize a meeting with Aaron Dillaway?

[kazzac]

I agree. Service is terrible! Bulimba could do with a Bulimba Glider for all the restaurants and movie cinemas in the suburb along with huge parking issues. It is very active place well into the night.

I don't care if its called a BUZ or a Glider but whatever its called we NEED more frequent services in this area!!Balmoral/Bulimba.I might have a car now but most of my neighbours here dont drive or have a car and usually have to catch buses ,taxis are too expensive for most people also.

[#Metro]

http://transportblog.co.nz/2012/10/20/auckland-is-winning-more-awards/

It seems we are starting to see the end of the days when Auckland was just the place where the main airport was located and that you only stopped in the city on the way through to other parts of the country. To me the changes in our tourism fortunes have seemed to tie in pretty closely to the city becoming a more lively and interesting place in general. This is just another reason why it is so important that we keep improving the city through things like the City Centre Master Plan.

[BrizCommuter]

A translation of a Japanese bus network review from:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=96716609&postcount=4047

"Niigata Kōtsū, which has preferential bidding rights to operate the BRT, recommended revising the original plan, which called for an alignment between Niigata Station and Hakusan Station. Instead, they want to extend It past Hakusan to Aoyama, where they think it may be easier to establish park-and-ride facilities. Their proposal calls for streamlining service on the BRT trunk and shifting the surplus buses to branch lines connecting to the BRT and feeder lines connecting to JR and other transit services.

The 15 lines and 2,088 trips currently running on the BRT alignment would be reduced to 4 lines and 723 trips, but buses connecting to the BRT would increase from 2 lines and 170 trips to 13 lines and 1,887 trips. Two lines and 16 trips would be eliminated, while 3 new lines and 240 new trips would be established."

Interesting reading. Note that this a private operator (and thus probably profit making).

[techblitz]

im hoping they do something with the 466,462
pains me to see these routes constantly carrying zero pax during the offpeak.

[somebody]

This was first announced back in July: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8814.0

Should we be hearing something about what might be happening with this yet?

[ozbob]

I believe that they have progressively worked through a number of regions, and there will be a further public consultation phase.  Not sure of the time lines though.  It is ongoing ...

[somebody]

Indeed, the webpage has been updated!

SEQ Bus Network Review
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Last updated: 12.42pm Thursday 15 November 2012
Help us build a better network

In July this year, the Minister for Transport and Main Roads announced a review of TransLink's South East Queensland bus network to improve service frequency, reliability and affordability.

From Monday 10 September to Sunday 23 September, we asked passengers to get involved in the review by completing a Service Review Form.
Passenger Participation Results

We received 4016 responses from passengers, relating to approximately 80 per cent of all routes operating in South East Queensland.

This feedback has been reviewed and we are continuing to work with our delivery partners to provide some suggested options. These options will soon be available on this website for passengers to review and provide further input.

In the meantime, here's a snapshot of the results:

    The majority of responses were for high frequency routes operating in Brisbane including routes 333, 222, 444, 385, 150, 330, 88, 100, 66 and 111.
    Brisbane Transport routes received the highest number of responses (2902) however local operators Mt Gravatt Bus Services, Thompson Bus Services, Veolia Transport, Logan City Bus Services and Bribie Island Coaches also received a very high response rate, indicating a good spread of comments across the network.
    The majority of respondents (19%) had comments relating to the reliability of services.
    More than 15% of respondents said frequency was important to them and 13% had comments relating to the 'span of hours' of services, for example off-peak or weekend services.  Other comments were relating to overcrowding issues, transfer connectivity, route design, timetable design and passenger environment.

We'll continue to keep you updated about the SEQ bus network review via this website and TransLink staff out on the network.
About the SEQ bus network review

The key objectives of the Network Review are:

    Eliminating service duplication
    Managing the infrastructure capacity (e.g. Cultural Centre busway station congestion)
    Getting more people on public transport by simplifying the network
    Getting better connectivity between services and modes
    Redirecting resources to routes where there is overcrowding
    Offering Demand Responsive Transport options where appropriate (such as taxis, flexibus services, para transit options etc).

19% of people, the largest portion, whinging about reliability.  Hmm.

[ozbob]

Again confirms the published (and non published) bus performance data is ' romancing the stone ... '

[somebody]

I guess it does.

It also shows that people love to whinge about a late bus.  Like Translink are to blame if there is heavy traffic!

[#Metro]

The majority of respondents (19%) had comments relating to the reliability of services.
    More than 15% of respondents said frequency was important to them and 13% had comments relating to the 'span of hours' of services, for example off-peak or weekend services.  Other comments were relating to overcrowding issues, transfer connectivity, route design, timetable design and passenger environment.

I'm not surprised that reliability is the highest, and here is why.
Imagine a 30 minute bus service. One bus service gets cancelled or is delayed by 15 minutes - your journey can easily blow out to one hour.

At higher frequency, reliability becomes less important because a delayed bus can be overtaken by the next service, or there isn't a long wait to the next service anyway.

Reliability becomes less important at higher frequency. The large portion of comments about reliability, I suspect, is just a reflection of a wider low frequency network.

[ozbob]

From the Queensland Times click here!

Day on the buses boosts MP's fight for services

Day on the buses boosts MP's fight for services
Joel Gould 23rd Nov 2012 3:00 AM

SEAN Choat's commitment to preserving bus routes 529 and 514 intensified after his day on the buses in Ipswich yesterday.

The State Member for Ipswich West travelled both those routes and many others yesterday as he spoke to commuters about his government's plans for public transport and sought feedback from many of them. Mr Choat played a lead role in ensuring the 514 route from Tivoli/Moores Pocket to Booval was reinstituted after the previous government had cut it. He also is firmly committed to retaining route 529 from Toogoolawah to Ipswich route.

"There has been a lot of talk about the government wanting to improve the efficiency of bus services and I wanted to find out for myself by talking to our residents," he said.

"In 2010 I invested a lot in the 'save our buses' group. That group prevailed and we got the 514 reinstated.

"A lot of people are worried it is going to be axed but I intend to make sure that it isn't and make sure it is improved.

"When they put it back they didn't look at the issues. For instance, I'd like to see the 514 terminate at Booval Fair rather than at the train station because lot of people on it want to be able to go to the shops."

When we spoke to Mr Choat he had just been on the 513 through to Woodend/Coal Falls, the 515 to Brassall and the 506 to Leichhardt. He was impressed with the usage and said he wanted to add more frequent services.

"People would like to see more frequency," he said.

Mr Choat tabled a petition in parliament at the last sitting with 2200 signatures to save the Toogoolawah 529 line.

The QT spoke to several commuters were pleased to see their local member taking an active interest. Lynette Davies, a great-grandmother, said the One Mile service was punctual.

"I've got three little ones in my care and it makes it a lot easier when they are on time," she said.

[ozbob]

Should be updates on the bus review on the TransLink web site later today ..

Suggested route changes will be made available and feedback will be sought 3 - 16 Dec 2012.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

3rd December 2012

SEQ: Bus Review

Greetings,

Later today it is expected that further public feedback will be sought on the next phase of the bus review by TransLink.

Poster boards have been out on the network indicating that suggested route changes will be made available from the 3rd to 16th December 2012 on the TransLink web site.

Passengers are asked to get involved.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Media release 4th September 2012

SEQ: Bus network review underway

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has welcomed the notice posted on the TransLink web site announcing the commencement of the SEQ Bus Network Review (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The bus network in south-east Queensland is long overdue for an overhaul."

"RAIL Back On Track has argued that the fastest, cheapest way to boost public transport is to introduce frequent and rapid services along main arterial roads, and increase rail and ferry services in existing corridors. This would require little or no new infrastructure, be rapid and quick to implement. And most of all, inexpensive when compared to larger 'big ticket' infrastructure items such as new busways or railway lines (2).

"Brisbane Transport for example currently operates around 220 bus routes - we think that's a lot of bus routes, and believe that fewer, simpler, more legible and more frequent services could be achieved simply through consolidation. Most of the network is over a decade old and more, and was created in a time when integrated fares, integrated ticketing and integrated planning were not around and operators competed with one another. Times have changed and the network must change also."

"A core frequent network is only part of the solution however.  Proper local coverage and feeder bus routes are also needed. Improved frequency and span of hours can be achieved by savings made from eliminating service duplication and in so doing improving connectivity not only to high frequency bus but rail as well."

"TransLink has indicated that public feedback will be sought from the 10th September via a Service Review Form (1).  It is important that all citizens give their viewpoints, by doing that a better integrated demand responsive network can be achieved."

References:

1. SEQ Bus Network Review http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/details/1346370543

2. Do-it-yourself Brisbane Bus Network Review! http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8959.0

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/details/1346370543

SEQ Bus Network Review

Last updated: 10.10am Monday 3 December 2012
Opportunties for stage 2 feedback will be available this afternoon (Monday 3 December).