SEQ Bus Network Review

[Gazza]

This appears to have been released a short while ago too:

http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/network-information/maps/region/130221-gold-coast.pdf

Holy sh%t, In this one single day Translink seem to have really come good!

[#Metro]

Well done translink. I was expecting something timid and mediocre, what a surprise. A more rude surprise was absolute criminal levels of pure waste within the BT bus network. 8 passengers on average per bus citywide! I think that 9 pm is reasonable for frequency to start winding down, 7 seems too early.

Generally I support the proposal. If BT wants later service, BCC SHOULD BE ASKED TO PAY.

[Mr X]

It seems they've dumped their 'flagship' SE Busway service idea as well, can't see any route which goes the full journey 8MP - City via South Bank

[SurfRail]

^ I've just used "The Knowledge" on that map and the only 2 things are the 727 and 768.  The 727 just vanishes off the map, and the 768 is shown as joining the trunk route a bit before it actually does.  Very minor, and clearly only an issue due to scale.

It is otherwise flawlessly accurate and easy to follow.  Even the little trial diversions (eg on the 15 and 726) are marked in.

Even the 737 is pretty much accurate, which is nothing short of amazing.

[Golliwog]

^ I've just used "The Knowledge" on that map and the only 2 things are the 727 and 768.  The 727 just vanishes off the map, and the 768 is shown as joining the trunk route a bit before it actually does.  Very minor, and clearly only an issue due to scale.

It is otherwise flawlessly accurate and easy to follow.  Even the little trial diversions (eg on the 15 and 726) are marked in.

Even the 737 is pretty much accurate, which is nothing short of amazing.

I look forward to the Brisbane version then. It'd actually be really good if they could use a map like that for each region (North west, North, North East, etc) showing all the proposed routes together. The maps for each current route tend to leave off other other planned routes, even if they're on the same map, but also don't show the full proposed route if it goes longer than the existing one it's replacing.

They really need to make better maps of their proposed routes IMO, to provide to people so they can get good feedback when that opens on Monday.

[beauyboy]

I have to say some of it is good and some of it is bloody terrible.

The concept of removing BUZ routes from Culture I hate. The concept of a single transfer zone made things very easy and safe.

The concept of winding back the BUZ hours I also dispise. The fact is 50% of my travel is past 7pm at night. That means people like me that have committments in the evening now may face 29min waits on the side of the road. Not the best for personal safety or confendence in the system. The BUZ system gave that it will now be taken away.

I also hate part time routes that one distance at one time then another another time.

The fact is people that travel at night need to feel safe and from what I have seen so far this review does not allow that.

Donald

[Mr X]

I approve of this review, have a few concerns though about some of the routes being axed.

[SurfRail]

I have a few - immediately to mind are:

- No service to Greenslopes Hospital
- No service along Dornoch Terrace at all (apparently)

I wonder if a solution can't actually be found for these.

I also have no idea why the 690 still does that massive tour of the entire Redcliffe Peninsula.

[Golliwog]

I have to say some of it is good and some of it is bloody terrible.

The concept of removing BUZ routes from Culture I hate. The concept of a single transfer zone made things very easy and safe.

The concept of winding back the BUZ hours I also dispise. The fact is 50% of my travel is past 7pm at night. That means people like me that have committments in the evening now may face 29min waits on the side of the road. Not the best for personal safety or confendence in the system. The BUZ system gave that it will now be taken away.

I also hate part time routes that one distance at one time then another another time.

The fact is people that travel at night need to feel safe and from what I have seen so far this review does not allow that.

Donald

I support removing BUZ routes from CC. Realistically, the frequency of the core routes should be (I think it is, but I guess we'll see after the review) high enough that interchange isn't hard. The Super Stops in the CBD are all set up to be close enough to allow easy interchange anyway (Ann St, KGS, both sides of Adelaide St, George St, QSBS, and maybe Elizabeth St) so taking them out of a signle stop at CC is fine.

Not sure what exactly you're talking about with part time routes, but I do agree with you on the changing of BUZ standard. While I agree with the point that a one size fits all approach keeping them all going 4bph until 11:30pm is too much, I think 7pm is a bit early. But that said, they make a point of saying that the 7pm mark isn't saying that after 7pm none of these routes will be running at 4bph, just that 7pm is the latest they have to to meet the standard. If the patronage justifies it, they'll keep the frequency going.

[Mr X]

I'm concerned about the 192 too
and Dornoch Tce as well, it's actually well patronised in peak hour so I can't see why it should be cut. Off peak it performs lousy.  Maybe just keep a peak service between West End ferry and UQ?

Under their plan, a large hilly part of West End won't have a service, with the hills it's hard for the less mobile to reach Gladstone Rd for the 196 or Hardgrave Rd for the 199

[Fares_Fair]

Bus Network Review - what does it mean for the Sunshine Coast?
Find out on ABC radio, 90.3 Coast FM, tomorrow just after 8:30am.

[HappyTrainGuy]

^So why do they deserve the resources if they'll use it anyway?

I just think its a misallocation of resources to do 4bph late at night to friggen Carseldine or whatever, but we can't do 4bph interpeak to feed major rail stations, or on bus routes that warrant the frequency.

I'm sorry, but I think the benefits of high frequency late at night to the suburbs are way overstated. It's the span the matters.

Agreed. Just because a route gets upgraded to a buz route it doesn't mean that particular route deserves the 4bph till midnight to the burbs on the outskirts of Brisbane where there aren't any extra trip generators to prop those up those services which t might apply to other buz routes. It annoys me so much that so many resources get poured into 330, 331, 332, 333, 340, 341 etc during peak hour yet local feeder routes like the 336/337 get cut just when people want to use them. Its like fronting up to a press conference and saying we are going to provide X amount of buses every hour to the city along with trains every 7 mins to the city.... at the cost of using feeder busses that get you to/from the interchange/stations. The 327... arghhh it terminates at Bracken Ridge then dead runs dead to Strathpine using the same route it would normally do to form the inbound 327.... urgh! Hurry up and impliment this new network.

[Cam]

No services down sherwood rd anymore through to rocklea.

Services past the markets are required on a Saturday morning even if it's only a shuttle between Salisbury or Moorooka and Sherwood stations.

[Golliwog]

Gah! Great example of what I was talking about with losing routes. S205 is titled 'Keperra to Banyo via Chermside'

I've got the Banyo end on the 306 map: http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-306.png

The middle is best shown on the 353 map: http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-353.png

But I can't find where it ends at Keperra, as it's apparently not related to any of the existing routes 362 or 396-398. I assume if it's going to Keperra, it'll be running down Dawson Pde, but knowing where it actually terminates in Keperra is what I want to know! The only places that make sense to me are either the Great Western SC, or Grovely station (I wouldn't bother with Keperra station, Grovely has the 398 and also has better facilities for transfers (lifts, ramps, part raised platform).

[Mr X]

Also what's this phantom route from
Simpsons Rd which runs through New Farm now?

[Golliwog]

Also what's this phantom route from
Simpsons Rd which runs through New Farm now?

Link to a map it appears on?

EDIT: I think you mean this one: http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-193.png  S111: Simpsons Rd to City?

EDIT 2: If that's the one then it's the Bardon end of the 375, with the New Farm end of the 470
http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-375.png
http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-470.png

[Mr X]

yes S111, I haven't seen much more info about it anywhere.

[Golliwog]

yes S111, I haven't seen much more info about it anywhere.

Don't think you get notified if I edited a second time after you replied (only just beat me!), but see above. It's a combo of 375 from Bardon and 470 in New Farm.

[minbrisbane]

Checking out the implementation - seems they want to change KGSBS to a 'lead stop' type station.

http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/seq-network-review-part4-implementation.pdf (p.  86)

There's going to be quite an increase in routes using it, I guess it's justified - but how they're going to do it is what concerns me.

A little disappointed that my local peak express (186) is being removed, as it's a high and very high in the scoring.  I'm happy with the replacement (22/400) though.  Overall, it's going to be a vast improvement from what I can see.  Well done TL.   

[HappyTrainGuy]

The 306 around the Banyo/Nudgee is getting the chop..... I dunno about that one.

[Mr X]

Don't think you get notified if I edited a second time after you replied (only just beat me!), but see above. It's a combo of 375 from Bardon and 470 in New Farm.

Nup I didn't get notified, but thanks for the link

[Arnz]

Bus Network Review - what does it mean for the Sunshine Coast?
Find out on ABC radio, 90.3 Coast FM, tomorrow just after 8:30am.

Hi FF,

Wonder what are your thoughts on the recent restructure within our region? 

Personally, I agree with most of the routes, however I am disappointed with a few things, the failure of increasing the Route 620 from every 30 minutes to every 15 minutes - as that is the main corridor between Maroochydore (Sunshine Plaza) and Noosa Heads, and the failure to restructure the 639 to allow for some increased bus options between Nambour and Palmwoods, as we know, the 639 is a air parcel that does duplicate some parts of the trunk routes (602, 610).

Although I was hesitant at first, I do agree with cutting back the 610 and 605 to Maroochydore and Caloundra to feed into the new "high-frequency" Route 600, which is being increased from every 15 minutes to -turn-up-and-go-  (I'm guessing a frequency of every 10 mins)

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Southeast to lose 111 bus services

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Cheaper bus fares could be the upside of the dumping of more than 100 bus routes in southeast Queensland

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

8th March 2013

Re: SEQ Bus Review

Greetings,

For some informed discussion on the bus review check out this discussion thread at RAIL Back On Track -->   http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=9045.msg121190#msg121190

Brisbane needs to move to a properly connected network.  Service levels and frequency can be improved for a lower overall cost.  This is demonstrated in the changes proposed in the review.

People need to look past the simple fact  "OMG, my bus route has been canned!".   Look carefully at what is actually proposed.

An example, the 462 bus route, that presently is not performing well because parts of the route pass non settled areas, but importantly connects Darra Centenary Village into the network is going.  However, a new route S505 does continue to service Darra Centenary Village.  ( http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-462.png )

In many other cases route reductions are simply a function of consolidating a number of routes into one. For example P88 + 111 + 160 + 555 all being amalgamated.

An outstanding highlight of the review is the creation of a high frequency bus service from Mount Ommaney to Inala/Forest Lake, which connects both to high frequency rail at Oxley and Darra.  This high frequency cross suburban route will give many residents direct access to high frequency rail without the perennial parking concerns.

TransLink are to be congratulated for taking the necessary bold moves to bring Brisbane public transport up to best practise.

More background on the changes in principle can be found here:

"transferring" can be good for you, and good for your city -->  http://www.humantransit.org/2009/04/why-transferring-is-good-for-you-and-good-for-your-city.html

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

7th March 2013

SEQ Bus Review

Greetings,

The TransLink SEQ Bus Review has been made publicly available here -->  http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review

The creation of a GoNetwork: network of high frequency bus, rail and ferry across SEQ. Services will operate from 7am–7pm with a 15minfrequency, 7 days a week is a very positive move.

Brisbane has reached the point where a direct service network needs to be improved into a high efficiency frequent connected network.

Initial impressions of the review are very positive.  There has been extensive consultation with the public, and our members have also contributed significantly.  Motivated by transforming the aging network into a network that will drive patronage increases, this review is an excellent outcome.  There will be a further period of public consultation from the 11 - 24 March, to fine tune the proposed changes.

We look forward to a similar process for the fare review.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[achiruel]

- No service to Greenslopes Hospital

Greenslopes Hospital runs a private shuttle between Greenslopes Busway Station and the Hospital every 15-20 minutes between 6:00am and 6:00pm which I think would be more useful to most people than the hourly 172 was anyway.

- No service along Dornoch Terrace at all (apparently)

I agree with this one.  How about an S route between West End Ferry Terminal & UQ? Obviously the City-West End part is ridiculous with the extent to which it duplicates the CityGlider.  Maybe if TL are concerned about duplication with 196 they could go via Gloucester St, Stephens Rd, Annerley Rd like this:

http://goo.gl/maps/XrpGO

People need to look past the simple fact  "OMG, my bus route has been canned!".   Look carefully at what is actually proposed.

Hear, hear!!!

[Jonno]

Couriermail --> Cheaper bus fares could be the upside of the dumping of more than 100 bus routes in southeast Queensland

Would love to see a before and after mapping of the accessibility of SEQ by walkscore.com.  This would show how the new routes improve the distance people can cover in 90mins and if it has created  areas where it is reduced

[#Metro]

The current network is truly unsustainable and cannot continue.

* Current network is operationally bad and if it continutes CC will be so jammed it will stop working, leading to systemwide failure, of which we have seen during wet weather and "heavy congestion" days
* Half the buses going through CC are empty in peak - massive waste
* Absolutely astronomical waste and inefficiency - BT is running a maxi taxi service with 8 pax on average over the city bus network

The analysis found that:

Two thirds of bus routes share more than 70% of stops with other routes
Just 14% of total routes carry 57% of passengers
49% of existing routes carry an average load of 7 passengers or less

This is a main driver of why fares went berserk with 20% and 15% rises each year while at the same time everyone was paying through the nose and 75% subsidy for what is a crappola network that isn't frequent and left suburbs such as Bulimba, Centenary and Northwest in the dark.

What is unsustainable, shall not be sustained. Financially unsustainable, operationally unsustainable and doesn't do what we want it to.

I cannot believe that BCC and Brisbane Transport let the waste and inefficiency pile up to truly shocking and astronomical quantities under their watch, putting new routes in, letting the old ones pile up unchanged, and all the while mouthing about how careful they are with funds and blah blah blah. They have well and truly been exposed!!

[#Metro]

Oh and I'd shut my mouth if I was Jackie Trad and BCC - the waste the review is just criminal. They have a lot to answer for with the huge rises and one of the highest subsides on the planet!!

[ozbob]

Queensland Times --> Bus service shake-up on way... again

[HappyTrainGuy]

Driving back along Sandgate road this morning I think nobody told the BCC about what's going on because there's a newly resurfaced bus stop. Less than 200m from the special indented 310 stop (because of the marked bike lane). Not only would the cyclists that use the bike lane be annoyed by a bus blocking the lane the sad thing is that its not the only bus stop there as there's another one smack bang in between the two  :conf



http://goo.gl/maps/o6gFw

[Gazza]

For the 192, why not extend the glider along Dornoch Tce and and terminate at Gladstone Rd?

[SurfRail]

Is a "199 along Boundary St" idea going to work?

[Golliwog]

What about taking their proposed Inner Loop (S99) and running it via Gloucester and Dornoch instead of Vulture? http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-475.png

IMO Vulture St is already fairly well covered by the 196 and the proximity of the 199 and the busway stations/train station.

[SurfRail]

^ I actually can't see how that turn at Grey Street is even going to be possible.

Better to run via GOMA, Montague Road, West End ferry and Dornoch Tce in my view.

[Cam]

I think it is a good idea to replace routes 124 & 125 with frequent route 23. However, these frequent services will still be significantly delayed in peak periods through Annerley & Woolloongabba where there are only two lanes with no bus priority. A third lane needs to be built in each direction & used as a transit lane.

"Table 3-2 Proposed Brisbane frequent network descriptions" in the Proposed Network states that frequent route 23 services the Storey Bridge. The maps show this route using the SE Busway. 

"Figure 3-10 Brisbane south-east sub region map" shows proposed route 23 following existing route 125 in Salisbury but the more detailed maps for routes 124 & 125 show proposed route 23 does not use Henson Rd at all. A set of traffic lights may need to be installed on the corner of Lillian & Orange Grove Roads to allow buses to turn right into Orange Grove Rd in peak times without delays.

[somebody]

Removal of the evening services will probably see me buy a car, if I stay in Brisbane.  I think that says it all.

[HappyTrainGuy]

If you lived in the burbs you would have bought a car a long time ago 

[petey3801]

Removal of the evening services will probably see me buy a car, if I stay in Brisbane.  I think that says it all.

In the report, the majority of frequent services are showing an indicative span (I imagine that's the span of 15min services on the route) of 5am-10/11pm. As has been said many times before, just because the standard will be 7-7 doesn't mean EVERY route will have frequent services finishing at 7pm. 7-7 is just the MINIMUM standard, with routes that deserve frequent services for longer, getting them!

[Gazza]

Hey so what is happening with the P344...No mention of it at all?