SEQ Bus Network Review

[nathandavid88]

All of Logan's peak hour routes have survived as well. Probably need them to be honest...

Maybe there will be more potential for them to form the high frequency outbounds now, rather than dead running home.

[haakon]

Whoops! Impossible bus route in Sinnamon Park!
http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-467.png

Sinnamon Rd is in Two parts, the bit in the residential area, and a Cul de Sac off Counihan Rd.
Sinnamon Rd  veers off and becomes Condamine Drive on the western side of the park:
http://goo.gl/maps/O5TvQ

Unless they plan to build a green link with bollards, or better still, use maglev buses.

Most likey, they'll just follow the current routing rather than the proposed one 

Preferably those retractable bollards and a security camera to upload to youtube any recordings of inattentive drivers who follow busses and get their car impaled.

[somebody]

I really dislike the watering down of the BUZ standard to only high frequency until 7pm.  The evening services have been a key component of what has made the program successful IMO.

[HappyTrainGuy]

It also made them carry air from what I have seen so far with the implimentation of the 330/340 buz services. 8-9pm would be better imo and then on a route by route basis change the frequency to half hourly till final service.

[bagbuffy]

Bad news...the 232 has survived, as S308 

But on the plus side, at least it goes directly along Hawthorne Rd now, should be a reasonably quick trip from Bulimba <-> City via Story Bridge, which makes me wonder why they didn't make that the frequent route (not to Cannon Hill obviously).

13a and 13b now give good frequency along Wynnum Rd at least to Morningside...it's a start.

I live along the 232 route so I'm glad Translink have kept it, I wonder what the Frequency of the S308 will be? The dumping of 235 will allow the S308 pick up the slack along Thynne Rd and around  Balmoral areas.Plus if you are living in Bulimba the S308 should now be a quicker ride into the City rather than the 13a. plus the S308 will be the only route servicing Shafston Ave. Hopefully we will see a Nightly service as well as a Sunday Service.

The 227 to be dumped/Shortened. Finally a frequent bus service down Wynnum Rd, from Cannon Hill 13b?

Feel for the Wynnum/Tingalpa communities, having to Interchange at Cannon Hill, just like the old days. Though Peak hour seems to have a direct service

210,215,220 and 235 all given the chop


13a (230) Terminates at Bulimba, where? will be interesting, with a route alteration. Like mentioned before If a commuter wants to head into the City from Bulimba the  S308 will be a way better option  as it more direct than the 13a. The 13a will be a high frequency route every 30 min, isn't the 230 already every 30 Min? And now the new 13a will be less direct than the 230. I don't know how they have improved the 230?

[somebody]

It also made them carry air from what I have seen so far with the implimentation of the 330/340 buz services. 8-9pm would be better imo and then on a route by route basis change the frequency to half hourly till final service.

Well you need the air carrying services to give people confidence in the service.  Jarret has blogged on this.

[SurfRail]

And now the new 13a will be less direct than the 230. I don't know how they have improved the 230?

Probably on weekends and after hours I'd say.

[SurfRail]

750 from Broadbeach to Robina will be high-frequency too, which is news to me.   

The 15 minute or better frequency routes appear to be:

- 700 (current, but extended from Southport to Griffith Uni during what I expect will be daylight hours only, and now calling at Pac Fair presumably until a certain time of the evening) - every 15m
- 701 (current 760) - every 15m
- 702/712 - every 10m (see below)
- 703 (current route from Harbour Town to Broadbeach, now terminates at Pacific Fair) - every 15m
- 704 (existing Route 715 renumbered and running every 15 minutes) - every 15m
- 750 (existing route from the Oasis to Robina Station only) - every 15m

Routes 702 and 712 both run every 20 minutes and form a common 10 minute frequency route between Seaworld and Broadbeach, then split at The Oasis - 712 continues to the casino and Pacific Fair and terminates, 702 bypasses these and continues south to the Airport, stopping at limited stops only south of here.

From the discussions I had previously (and this is reflected in the diagram in the report), the next priorities will be to get the 720 and 740 running every 15 minutes.  When I originally discussed this and was given a draft of that diagram, the 750 was one of those priorities too but they appear to have worked out a way to do it now. 

When the RTS opens, my prediction is that:
- The 700 will be kept but will only operate as a Nightlink style route between midnight and 5am Monday to Friday mornings when the trams aren't running, with the 701 running on Saturday and Sunday mornings and the morning on the days following public holidays (north of Broadbeach will be covered by trams in the wee hours on those days)
- 701 will run at the same frequency (or better) as the trams
- 703 will go and the resources will be plumbed into making the 720 and 740 run every 15 minutes
- Hopefully enough new buses will have been sourced to allow some other upgrades to high-frequency and to improve span of hours on other trunk non-high frequency routes.

I'd like to see the 735, 747, 761 and 765 prioritised for frequency upgrades eventually too.

[ozbob]

Our 'beloved' 462 gets the chop, be there will still be a bus service to the Darra Centenary village which was really the point of the 462 changes a while ago, in the form of S505.  So pleased that consideration has been given to the social need as well.

[HappyTrainGuy]

It also made them carry air from what I have seen so far with the implimentation of the 330/340 buz services. 8-9pm would be better imo and then on a route by route basis change the frequency to half hourly till final service.

Well you need the air carrying services to give people confidence in the service.  Jarret has blogged on this.

There is carrying air and then there are 328 levels of air being carried on high frequency buz services because of a standard that is applied across all routes with different catchments and trip generators. The same standard of service for a 199 shouldn't be expected to be the same as a 330 running in the burbs at 9pm at night. The thing that made me laugh not too long ago was waiting at a set of traffic lights around 8.30-9pm seeing a outbound 333 carrying double the passengers of the hourly 335 that passed a few seconds earlier but the 330 directly behind the 333 was empty bar the driver. At the next set of lights passed a outbound 340 that had 2 passengers. Sorry but there has to be a limit on what can be run and what can expected to be run varying between route to route. Pretty sure last year during the ekka I passed a 330/340 that basically had no on onboard but the Ekka bus was filled to the brim. Either that or it was a Suncorp stadium service.

[somebody]

I'd agree that there has to be a limit on what routes are frequent at what times, but better to have one standard rather than this different standards for different routes IMO.

BTW SurfRail, I didn't say that.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I'd agree that there has to be a limit on what routes are frequent at what times, but better to have one standard rather than this different standards for different routes IMO.

Which is why I said before and in other threads that the buz standard should be revised to 8-9pm and then on a route by route basis decide if the the frequency should be maintained or change till final service. The first service to last service in the case of the 330/340 buzing was just way to extreme and I continually harp on about them carrying air while the 333 just continues to attract all the patronage to and from the city. Every time I brought up revising the buz standard someone always gets grumpy and says "what about shift workers.... the hospital workers... blah blah blah". I do shift work and the current "buz standard" isn't even up to standard for the standard times of most shift workers actually starting and finishing work which is why you can sometimes get standing room only the 3.50 and 4.20 Caboolture-City services.

[minbrisbane]

It seems the standard is just that, the standard.  From very briefly looking at the documents it seems that span will vary for different 'go network' routes, but will be at least 07 - 19.

[ozbob]

Twitter

Jarrett Walker ‏@humantransit

Big frequency-oriented redesign in Brisbane and SEQld. Hope the manual I wrote for them long ago helped ... ...http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/major-changes-to-bus-routes-to-be-announced-by-transport-minister-scott-emerson/story-e6freoof-1226591902935?sv=12d1cfa2469f650d66256f197b7aa303#.UTgFgbBSg5M.twitter ...

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Twitter

Jarrett Walker ‏@humantransit

And the media describe the principles behind the Brisbane redesign almost coherently ... http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/major-changes-to-bus-routes-to-be-announced-by-transport-minister-scott-emerson/story-e6freoof-1226591902935?sv=12d1cfa2469f650d66256f197b7aa303#.UTgFgbBSg5M.twitter ...

================

Twitter

Jarrett Walker ‏@humantransit

Actually, my @mrcagney colleagues were very involved in the Brisbane redesign ... http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review?utm_source=translink&utm_medium=primary-tile&utm_content=march-2013&utm_campaign=seq-bus-network-review ...

[ozbob]

Is the 198 the last BT hail and ride?

[kazzac]

So what will replace the 235 on Thynne Rd?More frequent bus services will be great for most of my neighbours here whom don"t drive or have a car  and are too lazy to walk either 750 metres to M"side train station or 800 metres to Riding Rd.

[Golliwog]

Is the 198 the last BT hail and ride?

Not sure, but I think so. I know the current route 375 will (according to the timetable) drop you off anywhere along the route after some point in time (I think 9pm?) but will still only pick up at stops. I know the 399 is hail and ride on its loop out past Samford Village, but that's BBL, not BT.

[Mr X]

The 314's daily rat run around the backstreets of Sandgate is being cut and replaced with a local bus to Strathpine has anyone used that bus yet?

[somebody]

Is the 198 the last BT hail and ride?

I think the 302 and/or 303 are still hail and ride in Pinkenba.

The 198 isn't hail and ride in practice from what I've heard.

The first service to last service in the case of the 330/340 buzing was just way to extreme and I continually harp on about them carrying air while the 333 just continues to attract all the patronage to and from the city.

There is an easy answer to that: don't BUZ the 340.

Not sure, but I think so. I know the current route 375 will (according to the timetable) drop you off anywhere along the route after some point in time (I think 9pm?) but will still only pick up at stops. I know the 399 is hail and ride on its loop out past Samford Village, but that's BBL, not BT.

That never happens!

[ozbob]

Thanks Simon, yes I noted that the 198 bus stops had 'hail and ride' on them, but when you look at the 198 route map it appears to have defined stops.  Just wondering ..

[aldonius]

Ugh. The new #23 (replacing 125 & inner 100) is shown as going via O'Keefe & Buranda station, rather than continuing along Ipswich Rd to Wooloongabba station.

[somebody]

Ugh. The new #23 (replacing 125 & inner 100) is shown as going via O'Keefe & Buranda station, rather than continuing along Ipswich Rd to Wooloongabba station.

I don't mind O'Keefe St, but I don't like Buranda.  There's no need for it.  Use the portal from the UQ busway.

[SurfRail]

BTW SurfRail, I didn't say that.

Whoops, not sure why that happened.  Fixed.

[bagbuffy]

So what will replace the 235 on Thynne Rd?More frequent bus services will be great for most of my neighbours here whom don"t drive or have a car  and are too lazy to walk either 750 metres to M"side train station or 800 metres to Riding Rd.

The 232 (S308) will be servicing Thynne Rd and Balmoral Area. Unless you live between   the Morningside Police station and Wynnum Rd then the 230 (13a). I would like to see the new 232 (S308)  be a 30 Min service and and hourly Night service but we won't know till June I guess

[ozbob]

Damn them all, the 524 doesn't get high frequency!!!

[Golliwog]

http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-120.png

S404, Upper Mt Gravatt interchange to UQ Lakes, via Kessells Rd, Griffith campus, Tarragindi and Annerley Rd. Interesting route. Unless it's trying to serve stops along Annerley Rd, I'd suggest stick to Ipswich Rd and use the lower PA Hospital busway station entrance so you can allow interchange at Park Rd/to the new Uni Glider for those heading towards the CBD.

[somebody]

ooh ahh, route s409 is to use the Stones Rd level crossing!

[Gazza]

It also made them carry air from what I have seen so far with the implimentation of the 330/340 buz services. 8-9pm would be better imo and then on a route by route basis change the frequency to half hourly till final service.

Well you need the air carrying services to give people confidence in the service.  Jarret has blogged on this.

I'm happy to have air carrying services late at night so people can know they won't get stranded due to a late emergency.
Jarret is correct in his blogs on this matter.

But why do these services have to be provided at a 15 min interval?

I think having long span services definitely induces patronage, but the actual span is more important than the frequency late at night.

Is the patronage induced at other times (due to the factors Walker has blogged on) by a 15 min service at 10pm significantly higher than 30 min service at 10pm? I think there would be bugger all difference.

So I agree with focusing 15 min services 7am-7pm, with lower frequency thereafter till the last bus.

[somebody]

Hang on, do you need to go via Garden City to reach Nathan campus from the CBD - or some other circuitous route?

But why do these services have to be provided at a 15 min interval?

Because 15 minutes is the longest people will wait for a service.  Of course, the current system has 8bph along Moggill Rd at 11pm Mon-Thu.

[Gazza]

Because 15 minutes is the longest people will wait for a service.  Of course, the current system has 8bph along Moggill Rd at 11pm Mon-Thu.

So you're saying someone wouldn't use PT at all if they risked a 30 min wait on the couple of days per year they were caught at work really late?

[SurfRail]

ooh ahh, route s409 is to use the Stones Rd level crossing!

I did notice that.  I suspect the union will kick up a stink - don't be surprised if it doesn't happen.

[somebody]

Because 15 minutes is the longest people will wait for a service.  Of course, the current system has 8bph along Moggill Rd at 11pm Mon-Thu.

So you're saying someone wouldn't use PT at all if they risked a 30 min wait on the couple of days per year they were caught at work really late?

No.

[Gazza]

Further to my earlier post.

-In Perth, High frequency on the rail network winds up at 8pm, with half hourly services till the last train (Arriving at the terminii just before 1am).
Now, if what you were saying were true, the 15 min daytime frequency would be worthless, because they haven't continued it right through till late at night.

I say it doesn't matter because the frequency is there for the hours when the bulk of travel in general is occuring.

Now, a Perth CBD worker might face a disaster at work and not get out the door till 9pm, and yes it might suck a bit to have to wait up to 30 mins for the next train home. But  its such a rare set of circumstances, and the otherwise good service they enjoy the rest of the time would more than make up for that.

I just don't see why we have to conflate span and frequency.

Imagine two  fairly equal uses of resources over an 18 hour day.
Option A) 3 bus routes, with 7a-7p 4bph and 2bph in the 5a-7a and 7p-11p periods.
Option B) 2 bus routes, with 4bph right through 5p-11p

I think, without a doubt, that 3 routes operated in the manner of option A would draw more patronage than 2 routes operated in the manner of option B

[Gazza]

Because 15 minutes is the longest people will wait for a service.  Of course, the current system has 8bph along Moggill Rd at 11pm Mon-Thu.

So you're saying someone wouldn't use PT at all if they risked a 30 min wait on the couple of days per year they were caught at work really late?

No.

So therefore, on the converse, is the prospect of avoiding a 30 min wait on the couple of days per year they might be caught late enough to induce someone to use PT?

If the service provided was 4bph, but ONLY 7-7 that wouldn't be very useful (In fact, that's basically what the 369 is like).

But so long as there are at least a few extra buses, even if they are half hourly, or hourly, bringing it through till 11pm, I think thats good enough for suburban Brisbane. There's no way in hell
Yeah, you might not win market share from people using the bus to commute to late night jobs, but I'd rather we focus on the low hanging fruit of getting people using the bus in daylight hours.

I did notice that.  I suspect the union will kick up a stink - don't be surprised if it doesn't happen.

Can't they get a a bus of each model from the depot fleets that will work the route, and do some tests during a Beenleigh line shutdown...roll the bus back and forth and just see if current model buses can still get stuck,.
Is the road topography even the same as it was at the time of the accident?

[techblitz]

No services down sherwood rd anymore through to rocklea.
No surprise they have kept both p546 & p142.....patronage levels at peak on these 2 routes is insane. Probably the top 2 best performing peak prepaids.

[BrizCommuter]

BrizCommuter's word on the bus network changes, which generally look very positive!
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/go-network-major-change.html

[somebody]

Gazza, you are talking about what is virtually a captive market.

[Mr X]

Just saying, would be nice if they had a list of the new route arrangements as a separate list.

[Gazza]

^So why do they deserve the resources if they'll use it anyway?

I just think its a misallocation of resources to do 4bph late at night to friggen Carseldine or whatever, but we can't do 4bph interpeak to feed major rail stations, or on bus routes that warrant the frequency.

I'm sorry, but I think the benefits of high frequency late at night to the suburbs are way overstated. It's the span the matters.

[SurfRail]

This appears to have been released a short while ago too:

http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/network-information/maps/region/130221-gold-coast.pdf