SEQ Bus Network Review

[#Metro]

Three things BCC doesn't seem to understand:

1. Branching- they shove all these buses in the core overloading the CBD and Cultural Centre, and then the buses all fan out into a p*ssweak low or no frequency in the suburbs. USELESS.

2. Network design. No need to explain here, just look at the Maroon Glider and other idiotic proposals such as The Cleveland Solution!!!
http://www.humantransit.org/2010/05/basics-should-we-redesign-our-bus-network-and-how.html

3. Transferring. Must be why they can't scrape enough cash to fund services to Centenary, Bulimba, Northwest... too much money being spent on the direct service dogma

http://www.humantransit.org/2009/04/why-transferring-is-good-for-you-and-good-for-your-city.html

Remember, if you are against cuts, you are also against renewal, simplicity, legibility, frequency...

[#Metro]

I can't find last Tuesday's BCC meeting minutes that the Brisbane Times refers to, but I noticed that residents do submit petitions to council and these do get brought up in council.

Perhaps someone could organise a petition, collect a few signatures and post it re: BulimbaGlider?

Example --> http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/about-council/governance-strategy/committees-meetings-minutes/meeting-minutes/index.htm

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

13th February 2013

BCC is the problem!

Greetings,

It is time transport planning was removed from Brisbane City Council.  They do not understand that the public transport is larger than BCC.  One of the reasons that the bus network in Brisbane is fairly mediocre in terms of network connectivity,  cost efficiency and competitive with other modes is that councillors are not transport planners.  It would appear that BCC is now intent on attempting to thwart  attempts by TransLink to sort out the bus network (Reveal bus services changes, transport minister told http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/reveal-bus-services-changes-transport-minister-told-20130212-2ebc9.html ).  The Maroon City Glider is a classic example of why transport planning needs to be with TransLink.  The Maroon City Glider is a strange priority when one considers the much wider network deficiencies that need addressing. (See -->  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7575.msg119544#msg119544 ).

We call on the Minister for Transport and Main Roads to stand firm, support TransLink and remove public transport planning from BCC and correctly place it with TransLink.  Brisbane Transport is an operator, not the public transport planning agency for south-east Queensland.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Media release 13th February 2013

SEQ: Brisbane City Council is the problem!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said it is time that public transport planning was removed from Brisbane City Council (BCC) and correctly left with TransLink.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"It is time transport planning was removed from BCC.  They do not understand that the public transport network is larger than BCC."

"One of the reasons that the bus network in Brisbane is fairly mediocre in terms of network connectivity, cost efficiency and runs in competition with other modes is that councillors are not transport planners. The chronic bus-jam and congestion in Brisbane is just another sign of the mediocre network planning."

"It would appear that BCC is now intent on attempting to thwart overdue attempts by TransLink to sort out the bus network (1).  The Maroon City Glider is a classic example of why transport planning needs to be with TransLink.  The Maroon City Glider is a strange priority when one considers the much wider network deficiencies that need addressing (2).

"We call on the Minister for Transport and Main Roads to stand firm, support TransLink and remove public transport planning from BCC and correctly place it with TransLink.  Brisbane Transport is an operator, not the public transport planning agency for south-east Queensland."

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

References:

1. Reveal bus services changes, transport minister told http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/reveal-bus-services-changes-transport-minister-told-20130212-2ebc9.html

2. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7575.msg119544#msg119544

[ozbob]

Comforting to note the punters (bloggers) have the BCC worked out ...

--> http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/reveal-bus-services-changes-transport-minister-told-20130212-2ebc9.html#comments

[Jonno]

Meanwhile the Council is trying to work out to pay back Legacy Way debt with no income (maintain the line that Business Case remains solid even if only two men and their dog on their way to mow a meadow use it) make any difference to number of vehicles stuck in congestion and why the cost of living is so high!

[nathandavid88]

I can't believe how many people are taking BCC's side.    People don't seem to realise that a lot of the proposed cuts are beneficial to the overall network. They just see it as the State Government cutting public services further (although I personally still think that a few of the proposed cuts – particularly in weekend/Sunday running in the Logan area – are a bit more of column B than column A...)

[ozbob]

Majority clearly understand well the issues ...

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/reveal-bus-services-changes-transport-minister-told-20130212-2ebc9.html#comments

eg.

Brisbane Transport runs 220+ bus routes. This is significantly more bus routes than Toronto, Canada, a city much larger than Brisbane and with 4x the patronage. Because the transport budget is a fixed number, more routes means that services and therefore frequency is diluted across too many routes / spread too thinly to be useful to anyone. For example, bus services such as the 105 Yeronga or 232 Cannon Hill via Bulimba take forever and only come about once per hour.

As others have said, the system is SO complex that there isn't even a map of the bus network because of the sheer complexity of it all. A high number of routes isn't a measure of system quality - it is a measure of system complexity and difficulty to use.

To demonstrate why changes are needed, two years ago TransLink actually cut the half hourly bus 197 from New Farm to Fairfield via the CBD- completely DELETED this service. Using the funds from this service CUT, the route 196 was able to be massively upgraded to BUZ frequency all day well into the night. Residents of New Farm and Fairfield are now better off. Why? Because the 196 bus comes every 15 minutes, double that of the old 197.

The moral of the story - not all cuts are bad, and boy does the wasteful and inefficient BT bus network need cuts.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/reveal-bus-services-changes-transport-minister-told-20130212-2ebc9.html

[SurfRail]

I suspect most of the useful comments are from us... I'm certainly in there.

[somebody]

I suspect most of the useful comments are from us... I'm certainly in there.

Under a different name than usual eh?

I was wondering about that myself.

[longboi]

Majority clearly understand well the issues ...

Sadly I can't say this reflects the majority of the travelling public. The language used clearly indicates these are comments by people who either work or take an interest in public transport.

[ozbob]

612 ABC Brisbane Breakfast with Spencer Howson

Lord Mayor Graham Quirk talkback - February 18th 2012

Some PT related comments: 03.30 minute mark

--> here!

[somebody]

612 ABC Brisbane Breakfast with Spencer Howson

Lord Mayor Graham Quirk talkback - February 18th 2012

Some PT related comments: 03.30 minute mark

--> here!

Some moron rang in and said that paper tickets should stay.

[ozbob]

Melbourne is doing just fine ...  wouldn't be concerned about that ...

What I found interesting was how the LM was trying to push service routes etc. onto TransLink ...   

[somebody]

TL have updated their website on this process: http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/details/1346370543

SEQ Bus Network Review
Print increase text size reset text size decrease text size
More Sharing Services


Last updated: 10.57am Monday 18 February 2013
Help us build a better network

In July 2012, the Minister for Transport and Main Roads announced a review of TransLink's South East Queensland bus network to improve service frequency, reliability and affordability.
Passenger participation results
Stage 1

During stage 1 passenger participation we provided passengers with an opportunity to complete a service review form online or through the call centre for every route that they currently use. This was available from Monday 10 September to Sunday 23 September 2012.

Here's a snapshot of the results:

    We received over 4000 responses from passengers, relating to approximately 80 per cent of all routes operating in South East Queensland.
    The majority of responses were for high frequency routes operating in Brisbane including routes 66, 88, 100, 111, 150, 222, 330, 333, 385, 444.
    Brisbane Transport routes received the highest number of responses (2902) however local operators Mt Gravatt Bus Services, Thompson Bus Services, Veolia Transport, Logan City Bus Services and Bribie Island Coaches also received a very high response rate, indicating a good spread of comments across the network.
    The majority of respondents (19 per cent) had comments relating to the reliability of services.
    More than 15 per cent of respondents said frequency was important to them and 13 per cent had comments relating to the 'span of hours' of services, for example off-peak or weekend services.

Stage 2

For stage 2 passenger participation, suggested options by route were displayed online for passengers to view and provide comments. This took place online from Monday 3 December to Monday 17 December, 2012 with passengers also able to speak to TransLink and provide feedback over the phone if preferred.

    Here's a snapshot of the results:
        We received over 2000 responses from passengers, relating to approximately 75 per cent of all routes operating in South East Queensland.
        The majority of responses were for routes 77, 88, 105, 107, 108, 250, 315, 367, 540 and 544.
        The majority of respondents travelled five or more times a week for work purposes and predominately on weekdays.

What's next?

TransLink has been reviewing the main transport corridors in Greater Brisbane to help improve efficiency, reliability and affordability across the network. This review, along with the feedback received from passengers on suggested changes to their individual routes was recently presented to government as a package of recommendations.

It's likely that changes to bus services will be implemented in a staged approach throughout South East Queensland from mid-2013.

We'll continue to keep you updated about this project through this website and TransLink staff on the network.
About the SEQ bus network review

The key objectives of the Network Review are:

    eliminating service duplication
    managing the infrastructure capacity (e.g. Cultural Centre busway station congestion)
    getting more people on public transport by simplifying the network
    getting better connectivity between services and modes
    redirecting resources to routes where there is overcrowding.

Seems like it will be a drawn out process.

[Golliwog]

So basically what they're saying is they've done their part, and now want to get approval from the politicians? I thought it originally had something about another round of consultations once they revealed what it was they wanted to do. That could be difficult if they want to change their proposal after that consultation (if it happens) based on feedback, if they then have to take it to government.

[#Metro]

Can they please release the report? When toronto does service reviews, the ttc makes a report with everything laid out to see.

[bagbuffy]

Thoughts on the 232 being extended to Carindale? With a bit of route alteration the 232 travels  City via Bulimba to Carindale, travels Bulimba Route to Smallmans Street then turns right onto Oxford street and right onto Riding Rd at the round about then travels the usual 232 route until Barracks Rd  turns Left onto Wynnum rd then Right onto Creek Rd to Cannon Hill Shopping Centre then on to Carindale.

This would benefit the Bulimba,and Morningside Residents accessing City and Carindale shopping centre on the same service with out having to interchange. While giving Carindale  and Carina Residents of accessing Bulimba (Cafes and Cinemas)

This will also add frequency to the 232 of 30 Min service and an Hourly Nightly service. Plus a Sunday Service.

I know this is  a pipe dream as the BCC struggles to Buz the obvious 230

[Gazza]

This would benefit the Bulimba,and Morningside Residents accessing City and Carindale shopping centre on the same service with out having to interchange

Why can't they interchange? Cannon hill has good waiting facilities.

I'd personally rather see the GCL progressivley upgraded, with sunday services.

Extending the 232 would duplicate the GCL over this stretch, and duplication is exactly what we are trying to get rid of.

[techblitz]

    Here's a snapshot of the results:
        We received over 2000 responses from passengers, relating to approximately 75 per cent of all routes operating in South East Queensland.
        The majority of responses were for routes 77, 88, 105, 107, 108, 250, 315, 367, 540 and 544.
        The majority of respondents travelled five or more times a week for work purposes and predominately on weekdays.

107 <<< no weekend services
315  <<<<< no weekend services
367  <<<<< no weekend services
540 <<<<<< no weekend services
108  <<<<< no weekend services
77 <<<<<<< no weekend services

seems someone is trying to send translink a message about thier weeked services/weekday frequency

With regards to the 77 hopefully some people have suggested either running it to UQ or running it as a peak only service.

[somebody]

More importantly, the list routes were/are slated for cuts.

[Gazza]

The majority of responses were for routes 77, 88, 105, 107, 108, 250, 315, 367, 540 and 544.

Sample responses:

-77 "Don't cut my route"
-88 "Don't cut my route" (But why would people be attached to this route?)
-105 "Don't make me change buses to reach the city"
-107 "Don't change anything!"
-108 "Don't change anything"
-250 "Don't make me change at Carindale"
-315 "Yay more direct, do it!"
-367 "Yay improved services"
-540 "Don't make me change at Browns Plains".
-544 "But I want a bus to my acreage!"

[somebody]

-108 "Don't change anything"

Ever used this route or consider the impact that the proposed changes would have?

[Gazza]

Havent used it.
But it's peak only and the 105 more or less does the same thing. If you were a time poor CBD traveller you should just use the 105 and bail at Yeerongpilly for a train.

[achiruel]

Havent used it.
But it's peak only and the 105 more or less does the same thing. If you were a time poor CBD traveller you should just use the 105 and bail at Yeerongpilly for a train.

That could take up to 29 minutes to arrive.

[SurfRail]

Havent used it.
But it's peak only and the 105 more or less does the same thing. If you were a time poor CBD traveller you should just use the 105 and bail at Yeerongpilly for a train.

That could take up to 29 minutes to arrive.

Not in the peak.

[somebody]

^ You're funny.

The peak service is more logical than the off peak one.

[BrizCommuter]

Havent used it.
But it's peak only and the 105 more or less does the same thing. If you were a time poor CBD traveller you should just use the 105 and bail at Yeerongpilly for a train.

That could take up to 29 minutes to arrive.

Not in the peak.

There are still gaps of up to 18 mins in the am peak at Yeerongpilly.

[somebody]

^ He's referring to the fact that the 105 doesn't operate in the peak direction during peak, but routes 107 and 108 handle its functions.

[ozbob]

Stand by ...

===========

Twitter

Michael Coombes ‏@MichaelCoombes

Exclusive: @scottemersonmp reveals major changes to suburban bus routes. What? Where? Why? 6pm @7newsbrisbane #bnetraffic @TransLinkSEQ

[ozbob]

Stand by ...

===========

Twitter

Michael Coombes ‏@MichaelCoombes

Exclusive: @scottemersonmp reveals major changes to suburban bus routes. What? Where? Why? 6pm @7newsbrisbane #bnetraffic @TransLinkSEQ

Watched the segment.  No real detail, broad brush, highlighted the problems with bus jam/congestion and about the need to interchange.  Fare reductions mentioned. Examples used Carindale, Mt Gravatt. LM Quirk also interviewed, appeared supportive and talked up $2.5billion CBD bus tunnel plan, details of which mid year.

[ozbob]

This might be the lead into more information being released on the review ...  watch this space ....

[#Metro]

This is not good enough. Why do a review and then hide the results?

Have a look at this document, by the Toronto Transit Commission last time they did a review:
http://ttc.ca/PDF/Transit_Planning/service_improvements_2008.pdf

It lists, very straightforward, simply, no fluff:

1. Short explanation on how transit service is planned, purpose and goals.
2. Reccomended new and revised services
3. Proposals examined and not reccomended
4. Post Implementation review,

Basically it says, how to plan, what went through, what didn't go through and why. It's very to the point and no nonsense.

This is what needs to be released.

[#Metro]

In 2009, subject to the
provision of sufficient funding, the basic minimum level of
service on bus and streetcar routes will be improved to
20 minutes from 30 minutes. On subway lines, the
minimum service level is a five-minute service.

Would love to see 5 minute standard service on QR trains in the OFF peak.... LOL, if it were attempted I think upper management of QR would be so shocked.

I like how the TTC is no nonsense, no spin, black and white:

First paragraph.

1. Transit Planning

The TTC has two major objectives in planning its transit
services:
• To maximise mobility within the City of Toronto by
ensuring that public transit is provided in the right places,
at the right times, to satisfy the changing travel needs
within the community.

• To ensure that all transit services operated by the TTC
are as efficient and cost-effective as possible and,
therefore, affordable to both TTC customers and
taxpayers.

BCC would do well to take note of both paragraphs, particularly the last with respect to Maroon Cityglider which minmises mobility by sucking up finds to deny residents of Bulimba, Centenary and Northwest services and shunning feeder services which require bus changes, and two, spending money on stuff like route 77, 88 and Maroon Cityglider...

[ozbob]

Channel 7 News

Bus fares could be dropping

--> http://au.news.yahoo.com/video/queensland/watch/c2f21661-9109-302b-b971-d09d305cd999/bus-fares-could-be-dropping/

[HappyTrainGuy]

I don't know why there is so much hate for the 77. If you're heading to the southside (via busway) from the northside (and vice versa) the 77 is the fastest route and mode of public transport available. 25 minutes from Chermside to Griffith Uni during morning peak hour. Send it though the Airport link and the time savings would be just massive. No ifs or buts about it. Sometimes faster than what you can do if you had a car. Fix up the time it wastes on Hamilton Road by using the interchange. Extend the frequency. Have a proper feeder network into and surrounding chermside/along the busway and it could be a very key part of the network. During peak hour it can be 30 minutes + faster compared to interchainging in the city.

[#Metro]

Praise be! The lord mayor has seen the light.

There is a problem with the bus tunnel idea. If 190 buses go into the tunnel and stop at the underground bus stop - then the busway tunnel will be full and at capacity on day 1.

I really think metro is the way to go - the SEB is the only corridor that has the capacity to support metro services right now and all day. Retrofit the busway to run Vancouver skytrains etc.

[somebody]

Perhaps the results will be released soon.  Too early to say that they won't.

Sounds like no changes to BT services - only private operators won't be coming into the CBD.  So really, the evil BT have won the day it seems.

I don't know why there is so much hate for the 77.

Yes, but the bit to 8mp largely duplicates existing services and forces the majority change, going right past where they are going (UQ).  Stupid.

[#Metro]

I don't know why there is so much hate for the 77. If you're heading to the southside (via busway) from the northside (and vice versa) the 77 is the fastest route and mode of public transport available. Send it though the Airport link and the time savings would be just massive. No ifs or buts about it. Sometimes faster than what you can do if you had a car. Fix up the time it wastes on Hamilton Road by using the interchange. Extend the frequency. Have a proper feeder network into and surrounding chermside/along the busway and it could be a very key part of the network. During peak hour it can be 30 minutes + faster compared to interchainging in the city.

Disagree. You are overvaluing speed and missing frequency. 77 is likely to be cut or greatly reduced. It takes 15 minutes of waiting versus one minute for a busway service. The 77 also has no trip generators inside the tunnel until it pops out of the tunnel. It doesn't combine markets very well. This is why it doesn't run on weekends - low demand, markets not combined, etc.

This would be a VERY different story if route 77 went direct to UQ though. Food for thought.

I am not "against" routes. I am against waste and BS.

[somebody]

The video is the first time it has been mentioned that there are more buses through the Cultural Centre in the less intensive PM peak.  I'd suspected that for a long time, but it's confirmed now.