SEQ Bus Network Review

[Golliwog]

What are Sunday services?
Neither the 367 or 399 operate at all on weekends, the 362 gets an even 1.5 hour frequency on a Saturday and nothing on a Sunday, while the 397 and 398 start the day with a nearly 3hour gap each then get a frequency boost to a whopping 1 service every 2 hours each which is the same on both Saturday and Sunday.

[kazzac]

What about the 90 minute frequency of 230/235 services Sundays/public holidays for Bulimba /Balmoral ,the annoying "loop"no 232 service ,and the hourly 227 for Wynnum Rd through M'side/Cannon Hill,if you live along,near Wynnum Rd to Riding Rd,Norman Park,Morningside you have the choice of 227,230 or 235. Wynnum rd Cannon Hill only had the 227 and the 220,is also hourly(I think).there is a lot of new development around Cannon Hill at the moment, should be more services  planned for this area then

[HappyTrainGuy]

HTG - do you dare challenge me to point out which part of Brisbane has the shittier service?

Shittier? I was just pointing out some of the fantastic services across the northside but it seems it's also alive and well elsewhere. Man, look at those frequencies!

It's no wonder why I and the majority of Brisbane.... SEQ prefer to drive most of the time

[techblitz]

Yo...

Just hopped on 1 of those hourly 77"s to chermside
5 onboard after buranda
Jostling for the 3 passengers at windsor rail with 375,370
No luck with the 370 winning there...it arrives @ chermside with 2 pax..next 370 arr with 4 pax...
2 off 77 @ lutwyche, rest off chermside
3 pax waiting to get on for return run....
353 leaves chermside for city with 6pax
322 arrives chermside with 5 pax
680 ex chermside about 10 pax..
334 i/b chermside 1 onboard


Noted i/b 161 with bout 12 pax @ buranda

[HappyTrainGuy]

Was the 334 one of those ultra high capacity buses with the fin at the back that cruise around the northside?




..... well, ultra high capacity for the northside's standards 

[techblitz]

Was the 334 one of those ultra high capacity buses with the fin at the back that cruise around the northside?




..... well, ultra high capacity for the northside's standards 

Updated the post lol

[HappyTrainGuy]

I meant the bus running the 334 service 



Usually they do some ultra quiet route like the 329 with hardly any pax onboard while there would be a 333 or something nearby packed to the brim on some way smaller capacity bus

[techblitz]

Wasnt taking notice of the bus types but shall keep an eye out 

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

6th February 2014

SEQ: Bus review shambles confirmed by RTI

Greetings,

We have a fare affordability crisis on the TransLink network in SEQ.  The political failure to support the TransLink bus review has now lead to service cuts in all bus regions.

A terrible mediocre outcome, particularly when we have one of the worlds worst fare structures.  An outcome which is fundamentally the fault of BCC and the lack of political courage to stand up to them.  The evidence is clear.

It is time the Premier of Queensland and the Minister for Transport got out of the comfort zone, and directed the responsible authorities to sort out the public transport mess.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

==========================================

Media release 11 August 2013 re-released 6 February 2014

SEQ: Bus review shambles confirmed by RTI

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers is calling on the Brisbane Lord Mayor to explain why Brisbane Transport's network planners were instructed not to attend network planning sessions with Translink staff as part of TransLink's review of the entire SEQ bus network.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"A recent RTI request by the State Opposition has revealed a TMR briefing note on the review which states that under instruction, Brisbane Transport declined to attend strategic network planning sessions with Translink on at least 6 separate occasions (1)."

"We believe the uninformed political interference from BCC Councillors is the main reason for the Minister for Transport's announcement  on the back down and lack of support for TransLink when he said that no changes would be made to Brisbane Transport routes without approval of the council. Is this putting political mates before the real community need?  Is this weak leadership?  Certainly is!"

"Can the Lord Mayor explain why he and his council blocked TransLink from reviewing the network they are charged with organising, and instead had their own insufficient review done which has led to a continuation of the waste and failure the review was meant to help reduce?"

"Further more, can the Minister for Transport also explain why the situation was allowed to arise in the first place, and why more wasn't done to get BCC and Brisbane Transport involved in the review from the start, rather than the haphazard and mismatched mediocre series of reviews that has now occurred?"

"It is the view of our members that the lack of a proper review of the Brisbane Transport network is leading to ongoing waste and duplication across the public transport network which is limiting patronage growth and the expansion of public transport services across SEQ."

"It is time for Premier to step into this festering mess and sort it.  As the Premier indicated in 2010 when Lord Mayor of Brisbane, in the interests of all citizens the State Government needs to run the buses to stop the failure and position public transport in Brisbane and SEQ for a better future, free from petty self interest from Brisbane Councillors."

Reference:

1.  RTI  http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/aboutus/rti/disclog/rti13501772.pdf

2.  Lord Mayor Campbell Newman wants State Government to run buses
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/campbell-newman-wants-state-government-to-run-buses/story-e6freoof-1225839337936

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[James]

More minor BT bus changes coming up: http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-notices/6381/details

Only minor changes for the 428 and 432, still doing absolutely nothing to fix up either:

1. Express pattern mediocrity along Hawken Drive, denying residents 15 minute frequency to Indooroopilly when it can be easily provided by simply all-stopping 432s (which adds a grand total of one minute on to trip times) and the scenario where full 428s leave pax at intermediate stops behind while 427s without standees pass by people wishing to use the service.
2. The consistently late-running 428 service which leaves Indro at 9:38am. This service runs 5-10 minutes late on a regular basis and is often overcrowded - not acceptable!
3. Timetabling inconsistencies, which leads to 40 minute services gaps, a timetable which is inconsistent and have random services which don't run during semester, making it nigh on impossible to remember the timetable and make the service usable.

And of course, in typical BCC style, the times of connecting trains at Indooroopilly station has been removed. The only upside is this timetable is now easier to read!

[HappyTrainGuy]

And of course, in typical BCC style, the times of connecting trains at Indooroopilly station has been removed. The only upside is this timetable is now easier to read!

Tttrrrrrrrrrrr......aaaaaaaiiiinnnn? God knows what your on about mate.

[James]

James went for a trip on the 412 today - and picked up on a sneaky network cut that BCC has implemented. Originally during the off-peak the 402 would run every 20 minutes - then BCC's bus cost explosion caused network cuts. In BCC's review, cuts were only proposed to span of hours and Saturday services (and rightly so) - but cuts have also been applied to frequency during the day.

While I personally have little love for the 402, I picked up on today that the 402's off-peak running frequency has decreased from every 20 minutes to every 40 minutes (between 11am and 3pm). This is just a classic example of network mediocrity, as:
1. The UQ - Toowong - UQ loop takes 16 minutes - perfect to slot into a 20 minute cycle. Instead, the bus now spends 20 minutes faffing around and not actually doing anything useful (unless it is being used to sub in/out buses for other routes like the 412)
2. A 40 minute frequency is hardly useful to anybody, and the way the route is timetabled, it doesn't really provide any use to anybody at times in the off-peak.

While I do think 402 services should not operate during the interpeak, cutting services in a sneaky way is certainly not impressive.

On an unrelated note, it is seriously time to get rid of the yellow stops. Even on the 402, people simply do not use them! Just add in an extra white stop (maybe two) and leave it at that if we really need more stops.

[techblitz]

TransLink returned BT's email on 26 March confirming latest Excel file sent on 20 March, acknowledging our subsequent analysis (post 20 March) identified additional peak capacity is likely to be required in the South East Busway, Mains Rd and Old Cleveland Rd

Well well..the plot thickens...or should i say DID thicken

[#Metro]

Good luck fitting more buses in and buying more for peak hour!

Perhaps they should do something about the 50% AIR being transported to the CBD in peak hour, no??

[HappyTrainGuy]

Saw a 345 and a 346 both following each other having just exited the hyper market on the way home from work yesterday arvo.

[SurfRail]

In the vain hope of an outbreak of intelligence in Brisbane and because I'm slightly bored, I am plotting TransLink's "original"* network review for the BCC routes in Google Earth.  I've sourced copies of everything for posterity to build it from, and will post when eventually done.  This is something I would have done at the time for the purpose of working out some feedback, had there been a point to it of course.  Now it is just an exercise in curiosity, a bit like the Wilbur Smith plans.

* Taken from the PNG images I have collected from the website via the Wayback Machine as at 7 December 2012, so may not have been the "definitive" version before Emerson pulled the pin but immaterial since it was never locked in anyway.

[aldonius]

I pulled everything relevant in March of last year.
PMed you the Google Drive link.

[James]

Just went for a ride back from the shops on the 428. Around 15-20 pax on for the whole trip, people hopping on and off all the way from Indro station to my local stop.

The TransLink review was to give the Indro - Swann Rd/Hawken Drive - UQ corridor a half-decent service on weekends and during the off-peak. I suspect it would have really taken off - all you need to do is look at how many apartments and townhouses there are along that corridor, it is demand waiting to simply flourish, especially given the parking situation at Indooroopilly. But no, nobody goes to Uni on weekends, and nobody uses buses on Sunday.

[achiruel]

James went for a trip on the 412 today - and picked up on a sneaky network cut that BCC has implemented. Originally during the off-peak the 402 would run every 20 minutes - then BCC's bus cost explosion caused network cuts. In BCC's review, cuts were only proposed to span of hours and Saturday services (and rightly so) - but cuts have also been applied to frequency during the day.

While I personally have little love for the 402, I picked up on today that the 402's off-peak running frequency has decreased from every 20 minutes to every 40 minutes (between 11am and 3pm). This is just a classic example of network mediocrity, as:
1. The UQ - Toowong - UQ loop takes 16 minutes - perfect to slot into a 20 minute cycle. Instead, the bus now spends 20 minutes faffing around and not actually doing anything useful (unless it is being used to sub in/out buses for other routes like the 412)
2. A 40 minute frequency is hardly useful to anybody, and the way the route is timetabled, it doesn't really provide any use to anybody at times in the off-peak.

While I do think 402 services should not operate during the interpeak, cutting services in a sneaky way is certainly not impressive.

On an unrelated note, it is seriously time to get rid of the yellow stops. Even on the 402, people simply do not use them! Just add in an extra white stop (maybe two) and leave it at that if we really need more stops.

So, AIUI, the 402 is basically to provide additional services between Toowong and UQ during peak hours, without needing to run buses Toowong <-> City

Why bother having it off-peak or weekends at all then?  Surely that would save even more money!  And yes I agree re: the yellow stops...412 stops are only a few hundred metres apart as it is!

[James]

So, AIUI, the 402 is basically to provide additional services between Toowong and UQ during peak hours, without needing to run buses Toowong <-> City

Why bother having it off-peak or weekends at all then?  Surely that would save even more money!  And yes I agree re: the yellow stops...412 stops are only a few hundred metres apart as it is!

I agree, and in fact think there should be MORE Toowong short-runnings in peak. However, this 40-minute off-peak 402 cycle is absolutely daft, given the bus likely does nothing in the mean time. What BCC did was a very sneaky cut - much like that applied to the 470 and 475 out this way.

It has been removed on Saturdays (a smart move really), and I personally think it should be removed in the off-peak as well. Maybe worth throwing in a 412 sweeper departing Toowong at :41 and leaving UQ at :55 - the crowds that build up at the Chancellors' Place stop even at 11am are quite impressive. That being said, if pax are in a rush, the 411 always goes out with a reasonable amount of space.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Graham Quirk unable to remember when he last caught bus

[James]

Brisbanetimes --> Graham Quirk unable to remember when he last caught bus

Many people I know in the Centenary suburbs cannot remember when they last caught a bus. I wonder why...

[techblitz]

10pm 110 outbound

25-30pax onboard after gabba
1 on annerley junction
4 off 3 pax on at chardons corner including a pram.....those passengers went beyond archerfield...
6 off clifton hill
5 off moorooka shops
1 on moorooka  south
Still a good 15 or so heading past archerfield...
The bus route goes to hourly after 7.42pm.....but still presents good consistent demand...
The 110 would surely be one of the most loaded hourly bus routes (weeknights) at these times....

Oh if only translink had disclosed the frequency of their coopers plains crosstown feeder....they might have actually been taken seriously by local residents in these parts....

[SurfRail]

And now, presumably for the first time outside of TransLink's own documents - the proposed 2013 Brisbane Transport bus network.

27 frequent routes (26 - route 13 is a combination of 2 separate eastern route)
67 secondary routes (66 BT, one Hornibrook)
29 peak hour routes

Total = 123

Given the dodgy nature of the consultation materials this is highly interpretive.  Some of the proposed routes do not appear to be depicted over their full extent in any combination of the materials (eg the 506 and 509 to name two), so I have made assumptions about routes and terminating locations.  Similarly I have made assumptions about route paths where the consultation material was clearly wrong (eg missing stretches of road).

I have avoided making any assumptions about where things go in the CBD apart from frequent routes 1-5, secondary route 111, the Hornibrook 315, the Spring Hill Loop and (only in part) the peak 341.  Everything else just ends somewhere at the CBD frame.

Would that something like this have been released in the FIRST place.

Anyway, this is all for posterity now.  Any comments welcome.

[James]

This is me being pedantic, but you've sent routes like the S500 straight down Clarence Rd. On the inbound, they go Westminster Rd, Left into Clarence, left into Lambert, left into Central Av then following Central Av until (L) Clarence Rd, (R) Prince St, (R) York St then (R) Swann Rd, continuing route as you've done to UQ.

The most annoying thing about the current 427/428 is that due to low visibility, you can't turn right from Clarence Rd into Swann Rd. The other issue is if you use the stop near the station, you have to go via Central Av (a slower back street, effectively). That, and stops every 200m, is why the 428 takes 20 minutes to go from Indro to UQ in peak hour.

The Clarence/Swann intersection needs to be signalised. Not a lot can be done about the routing around the station until a proper interchange is built.

[SurfRail]

This is me being pedantic, but you've sent routes like the S500 straight down Clarence Rd. On the inbound, they go Westminster Rd, Left into Clarence, left into Lambert, left into Central Av then following Central Av until (L) Clarence Rd, (R) Prince St, (R) York St then (R) Swann Rd, continuing route as you've done to UQ.

That's what TransLink did - refer to the 428 replacement diagram if you have it handy.  Quite specifically indicates the old route as you have indicated (at least the dogleg to get onto Central Av) is decommissioned.

I'm not familiar enough with each individual intersection in Brisbane to know sightline limitations etc, so I can only assume that to the extent it doesn't look absolutely mental or just impossible, it is probably correct. 

Keep in mind the route diagrams are so buggy and full of weird artefacts that you may be right in saying it is unchanged from the current 428 routing.  To this day I have no idea how they thought that material was suitable and fit for release to the public.

[James]

This is me being pedantic, but you've sent routes like the S500 straight down Clarence Rd. On the inbound, they go Westminster Rd, Left into Clarence, left into Lambert, left into Central Av then following Central Av until (L) Clarence Rd, (R) Prince St, (R) York St then (R) Swann Rd, continuing route as you've done to UQ.

That's what TransLink did - refer to the 428 replacement diagram if you have it handy.  Quite specifically indicates the old route as you have indicated (at least the dogleg to get onto Central Av) is decommissioned.

I'm not familiar enough with each individual intersection in Brisbane to know sightline limitations etc, so I can only assume that to the extent it doesn't look absolutely mental or just impossible, it is probably correct. 

Keep in mind the route diagrams are so buggy and full of weird artefacts that you may be right in saying it is unchanged from the current 428 routing.  To this day I have no idea how they thought that material was suitable and fit for release to the public.

That's the thing: it wasn't. It was evident by the fact numerous routes had to be revised halfway through the process (Lone Pine to UQ being one of them).

I've checked an archived image, and you are correct. Oh dear. Looking at that, TransLink really did do a good job of botching the buses running between Indro and UQ. I think it is obvious the planners TransLink used had no connection to Brisbane. Doing that gives pax no connection to rail (which is the big ticket, rail is faster than a bus even in the off-peak) and sends it via the Clarence Rd/Swann Rd intersection, which I avoid because 1) it is dangerous and 2) if you are looking for speed, via Lambert/Indooroopilly Rds is faster, thanks to less stops and lower pax numbers.

[#Metro]

I've checked an archived image, and you are correct. Oh dear. Looking at that, TransLink really did do a good job of botching the buses running between Indro and UQ. I think it is obvious the planners TransLink used had no connection to Brisbane. Doing that gives pax no connection to rail (which is the big ticket, rail is faster than a bus even in the off-peak) and sends it via the Clarence Rd/Swann Rd intersection, which I avoid because 1) it is dangerous and 2) if you are looking for speed, via Lambert/Indooroopilly Rds is faster, thanks to less stops and lower pax numbers.

It still surprises me that they did not come to RBOT for advice on their plans after BCC refused to participate. We do have the local knowledge and while we don't have as much information as BCC does, it would have been a close substitute.

[techblitz]

Translink based most of their decisions off ticketing data.......yet in certain instances like moorooka shops.....this was not enough to present an accurate picture of the demand to this retail precinct.....all translink saw was numbers.....they had no idea of the actual demographic demand coming from the south.....plus they just assumed everyone would be happy to connect via coopers plains and then salisbury stations...

[SurfRail]

If the material had been fit for purpose we would have been able to put together a comprehensive response addressing some of these issues (eg removing bus services from Greenslopes Hospital, no service from Acacia Ridge to the CBD or at least CBD frame, still poor services through Spring Hill, apparent lack of decent connection from the Valley to the RBWH, the GCL replacement routes not going via the main part of Toowong, no buses to the Duke St area, various alignment and routing issues, the presence of some very strange new peak hour services etc).

Seeing that the review fell over so quickly it made all of this moot.

[techblitz]

Oh if only translink was given the time of day by BT in those first 2 meeting requests...the little kinks from translink could have been ironed out....also the wealth of knowledge a long-time bus driver has can be invaluable....strike up a network design conversation with them and they will be able to give a fairly quick and in depth rundown on demand to certain areas,passenger loads etc etc....

[#Metro]

If the material had been fit for purpose we would have been able to put together a comprehensive response addressing some of these issues (eg removing bus services from Greenslopes Hospital, no service from Acacia Ridge to the CBD or at least CBD frame, still poor services through Spring Hill, apparent lack of decent connection from the Valley to the RBWH, the GCL replacement routes not going via the main part of Toowong, no buses to the Duke St area, various alignment and routing issues, the presence of some very strange new peak hour services etc).

Seeing that the review fell over so quickly it made all of this moot.

I think RBOT would have made up for much of BCC's refusal to cooperate in the design stage. Stuff like 411 being deleted etc would not have happened easily.

On the other hand, even a 'perfect' review would have attracted harsh criticism. It is a fallacy to think that a review of such a scale would have attracted little or no criticism. This is a large change and communication is not enough to mitigate status quo bias and loss aversion psychology. The things like 172 Greenslopes Hospital were part of a larger campaign/plot IMHO to tease open the floodgates and collapse the whole review. The minister appears to have thought that by making some concessions that the hubbub would go away, in fact it had the exact opposite effect - as soon as the minister showed that he was willing to compromise (and sheet the blame to TL in the process), he unwittingly set a precedent as everyone began to think 'Well, they got a concession on their bus service, why can't I get a concession on mine too?' as so you had to massive flood of people getting the bus version of 'I want an express to my stationitis' where everybody asks for a rocket to their house.

The failure to release a single comprehensive map and the use of unfamiliar codes also made people uneasy.

[#Metro]

Hi Frequency Bus Network: What would a connected bus network look like for Brisbane?

Image: SL Stockholm Blue Trunk Network Bus. These buses form a high frequency mass transit network connecting train stations to off-rail network destinations. Buses are 100% electronic ticketing and feature three or more doors. Services are approximately every 10 minutes or better all day.

STILL WATING FOR THE BUS? You are not alone – many Brisbane suburbs lack decent bus service and there is a push for more frequent bus services more often. Much of the Brisbane bus network is focused on peak hour commutes with very little service in the off-peak and providing maximum coverage by hourly or half hourly low frequency bus services that most people shun. The high frequency BUZ network offers 'turn up and go' services but if you live in a bus blackspot - Albany Creek, The Centenary Suburbs, Yeronga and Bulimba – these options are not available to you.

Latest from the LDT Blog ---> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?blog=124

[James]

I think RBOT would have made up for much of BCC's refusal to cooperate in the design stage. Stuff like 411 being deleted etc would not have happened easily.

On the other hand, even a 'perfect' review would have attracted harsh criticism. It is a fallacy to think that a review of such a scale would have attracted little or no criticism. This is a large change and communication is not enough to mitigate status quo bias and loss aversion psychology. The things like 172 Greenslopes Hospital were part of a larger campaign/plot IMHO to tease open the floodgates and collapse the whole review. The minister appears to have thought that by making some concessions that the hubbub would go away, in fact it had the exact opposite effect - as soon as the minister showed that he was willing to compromise (and sheet the blame to TL in the process), he unwittingly set a precedent as everyone began to think 'Well, they got a concession on their bus service, why can't I get a concession on mine too?' as so you had to massive flood of people getting the bus version of 'I want an express to my stationitis' where everybody asks for a rocket to their house.

The failure to release a single comprehensive map and the use of unfamiliar codes also made people uneasy.

TransLink could have stopped the 411 from being cut by asking Scott Emerson how his commute would have been affected (he uses the service, after all).

I maintain the issue for most people was not showing the frequency and span of hours of routes. Moggill is a great example. They had a BUZ, then were told 'You are getting one route to UQ on unknown frequency and span of hours, with a possible P-rocket which we're not showing on the map'. If you made it near-BUZ a la my own review, people would be more receptive to the idea. As it was, people had absolutely no clue what they were getting in to.

The Acacia Ridge routes were another scenario where you were going to have an in-practice disaster. The area currently gets 2bph to the CBD. What was proposed was feeders to Coopers Plains on unknown frequency. This missed the Moorooka shops and the feeders seemingly went nowhere.

The more I look at it, the more I think they assumed that everybody using buses is either going to a Westfield/ex-Westfield Shopping Centre, the City, or a University. Moorooka shops? Toowong shops? What shops? Again, a symptom of only looking at numbers and not wider community need.

It still surprises me that they did not come to RBOT for advice on their plans after BCC refused to participate. We do have the local knowledge and while we don't have as much information as BCC does, it would have been a close substitute.

They could have set up reference groups within the community as well. Yes, you'd have the 'don't cut my home rocket and taxi service' grannies and 9-5 white picket fence commuters, but there would have been people in the community who would have been interested in changes.

I support the bus review's version of the 172. The busway shuttle is adequate. The fact that some random granny in Holland Park had a connection to Greenslopes Hospital is zero reason to keep the service. Most pax for the 172 were coming from the busway/PAH and it is easy enough for them to go to Greenslopes busway using other busway services. Given the way the 172 tosses and turns, I'm surprised granny hasn't fallen off the seats!

[achiruel]

I support the bus review's version of the 172. The busway shuttle is adequate. The fact that some random granny in Holland Park had a connection to Greenslopes Hospital is zero reason to keep the service. Most pax for the 172 were coming from the busway/PAH and it is easy enough for them to go to Greenslopes busway using other busway services. Given the way the 172 tosses and turns, I'm surprised granny hasn't fallen off the seats!

Even if BCC thinks the 172 must connect to Greenslopes Hospital for some reason, why on Earth does it need to go into the city.  Terminating at Woolloongabba would save almost 30% of the trip time (not to mention reduced air parcels through CC & across the Victoria Bridge).

[SurfRail]

The 117 terminating there now may be a sop to the possibility of this happening in future with similar milk run routes like the 113 and 172.  Who knows anymore.

[James]

Even if BCC thinks the 172 must connect to Greenslopes Hospital for some reason, why on Earth does it need to go into the city.  Terminating at Woolloongabba would save almost 30% of the trip time (not to mention reduced air parcels through CC & across the Victoria Bridge).

I personally am not a fan the near-termination concept. I see it as more BCC putting band-aids over meter-wide holes in the sinking ship that is the BCC bus network.

A proper bus network would not be sending milk runs as far as Wooloongabba, and the 1-2 which do go through there might as well just continue to the CBD. If we want to ease CC congestion, send these buses via CCB. I have always said that for legibility purposes, ideally only 1xx/2xx BUZes should be going through CC, with others via CCB. Pax on non-frequent routes wanting to go to CC/SB/MH can just change to a frequent route.

A number of the 11x secondary routes have to be some of the worst designed bus routes in the entire nation. The 116 is a pretty ordinary route, the 112 is awful and the 113 is quite frankly, a shocker. 20x secondary routes are following very close behind.

[achiruel]

I personally am not a fan the near-termination concept. I see it as more BCC putting band-aids over meter-wide holes in the sinking ship that is the BCC bus network.
A proper bus network would not be sending milk runs as far as Wooloongabba

Of course the problem is that the milk runs need to terminate somewhere that people can transfer if they need to complete a forward journey, and Greenslopes lacks termination/turnaround facilities.  And 30% of the route is not a small saving.

[#Metro]

https://goo.gl/maps/ypNj1

Greenslopes *does* have turnaround facilities. All that would be required is a bus pole and yellow paint at the busway station facing the road. There is a bus loop ~ 10 m away at Bairnsdale place.

I have attached a map as proof.

[Gazza]

I don't really see the hate for the 172. Change it? Yes. Eliminate it, no?

The simple fact is the area would have 3 BUZ type routes under a proper review, one along the SEB, one along Logan Road, and one along Cavendish Rd.

The issue is that for coverage purposes you kinda need a route in between the SEB and Logan Rd due to the fact the SEB has stops so far apart.

I would have kept it, but realligned it so it was away from Logan Rd the whole time, and had it go via Greenslopes Hospital as a bonus.