SEQ Bus Network Review

[techblitz]

Techblitz why do you put so much weight on the protests of the ill informed?

Should we not have built the Gold Coast Light Rail system for that reason?

Right you are gazza...ill informed they were....by translink on the secondaries......If the ill-informed WERE informed properly...it wouldn't have been such a mess in the media.....especially quest.

Obviously getting under your skin on my point of view with the Brisbane review?.....diddums...
I myself thought it was rushed & too drastic with certain pockets of residential/ services not explained well enough.....ive outlined this over the last year from my previous posts.....its been what 7 months now since the canning??
I will openly admit that im now the only one on RBOT who didn't like the TL brisbane review and have never changed my stance.....but I will still talk about bus routes if I feel the need to......forums are not meant for total agreeance gazza...perhaps you need to refresh your memory on this factor....or is the bus review exempt from this so that everyone should agree that TL did the right thing...

[#Metro]

Right you are gazza...ill informed they were....by translink on the secondaries......If the ill-informed WERE informed properly...it wouldn't have been such a mess in the media.....especially quest.

Obviously getting under your skin on my point of view with the Brisbane review?.....diddums...
I myself thought it was rushed & too drastic with certain pockets of residential/ services not explained well enough.....ive outlined this over the last year from my previous posts.....its been what 7 months now since the canning??
I will openly admit that im now the only one on RBOT who didn't like the TL brisbane review and have never changed my stance.....but I will still talk about bus routes if I feel the need to......forums are not meant for total agreeance gazza...perhaps you need to refresh your memory on this factor....or is the bus review exempt from this so that everyone should agree that TL did the right thing...

People are entitled to their opinion. Gazza though has a point - the TL review was a DRAFT. Have people seen the BT bus review - what a joke! This is not a review, it is a placation PR exercise to waste time while the figure out how to cover up the extent of the cost explosion at BT. BT is running at a LOSS this year to BCC because Emerson FINALLY put his foot down and said NO to being an ATM. BCC is banking on this policy falling through within the next 3 years or so because, rather than raise rates, they'll aim to pay off the deficit on the bus ops ($16 million it is I believe) over the next 3 years... how will they do this? Cut services, cut staff at BCC and hold down wages of staff. The cannibalisation theory/prediction is coming true. The bus operations ARE going to eat BCC inside out, whether they like it or not.

[Gazza]

Obviously getting under your skin on my point of view with the Brisbane review?.....diddums...

People too lazy to click a link and look/read what was being changed? Diddums.

[HappyTrainGuy]

It was also a draft that BT couldn't give feedback and help improve on because of people higher up in the BCC wanting to play politics.

Anyway I thought some people here might enjoy some photographs.

Urghhhh.... there's always a line.


Excuse me? Can you please move your bus forward so I and the other buses can get out??


Thanks.


Hmmmm...


This looks tight.....


Easy does it.... easy does it....


Chilling out at the Chermside depot.


340 right on time.


One. Two. Three....Fffffour??....stupid side advertising.



I still reckon the 330/340 should be moved to stop A to limit these problems.

[techblitz]

lol htg...if politics it was...why have you been constantly spamming the forum with pics of empty buses and crowded stops?
If the root of all evil is the councellors (including the very vocal councellor arguing against the review for the deagon (314)area)...why aren't you spamming the images to those councellors...drop the images into their office!
Unless your working on the premise that those same councellors are registered here on the forum and by chance happen to catch some of your posts....then its seriously pointless. Theres 2 ways to do it....get in their face with the pics or just huff and puff on a forum 

[longboi]

It has a much better bus network than Moreton Bay. They even have buses at night on the weekend 

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Travel-and-transport/qconnect/Cairns-Real-Time/Cairns-Real-Time-Bus-Tracker.aspx

It's apples and oranges.

Cairns is a significant regional city. The Moreton Bay region, in isolation, is predominately suburban sprawl.

What rubbish. The Redcliffe peninsula is just as dense as anywhere in Cairns. You think that Palm Cove deserves to have better bus services than Redcliffe.

Right.

You can hardly call anywhere in the Moreton Bay region as much of a tourist destination than Cairns. High seasonal/tourist population = lower car dependence.

You have to also consider that Cairns is a city in itself which includes a CBD. The Moreton Bay region is on the outer fringes of a major city and does not feature a CBD in the same sense as, say, Cairns or Brisbane.

Nobody is saying that things are great for PT in the Moreton Bay region. Just saying that you're comparing apples and oranges.

Have a look at a map to see where Palm Cove is. It's over 20km north of Cairns' CBD. Nearly the same distance as Redcliffe is from Brisbane's CBD. You really think a coastal village made up entirely of low density housing on the outskirts of a town of 150 000 people deserves to have considerably better public transport than a much higher density area on the outskirts of a city of over 2 million people.

Redcliffe is also only slightly further from Brisbane's CBD as Moggill is.

If the numbers support it, then yes.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Pretty sure Translink requested BT to help with the review numerous times but had to decline due to the BCC saying so.

I rung up a couple times last year. Got the run around multiple times and was eventually told it's a translink matter. I'm not going to waste my time anymore chasing up the same people that told me it was a Trasnlink issue and when some of their pals couldn't even read the Translink Network review in the first place. I find it amusing that it takes someone who doesn't live in the BCC area to point out some of their biggest flaws. Although it sorta explains why we get shafted when it comes to services as they want to make it as confusing as possible to read the timetable or to catch a bus.

[Golliwog]

Pretty sure Translink requested BT to help with the review numerous times but had to decline due to the BCC saying so.

That's the case. I posted a link to the RFI .pdf which has that in a note in it somewhere. From memory it lists a number of occasions on which BT were invited to participate, and also states that they informed Translink that they were under orders from BCC not to take part.

When our local councilor has asked us over the issues for issues via bulk letterbox spam, we've a few times emailed him back pointing to improvements to route 362. Every time we received a response saying "I too support this, but that's a Translink matter, you'll have to take it up with them." I understand in the review that obviously there's funding issues to contend with, but I merely use this as a case of why it's pointless to raise issues with BCC because they just fob you off with "Not our problem"

[James]

That's the case. I posted a link to the RFI .pdf which has that in a note in it somewhere. From memory it lists a number of occasions on which BT were invited to participate, and also states that they informed Translink that they were under orders from BCC not to take part.

When our local councilor has asked us over the issues for issues via bulk letterbox spam, we've a few times emailed him back pointing to improvements to route 362. Every time we received a response saying "I too support this, but that's a Translink matter, you'll have to take it up with them." I understand in the review that obviously there's funding issues to contend with, but I merely use this as a case of why it's pointless to raise issues with BCC because they just fob you off with "Not our problem"

And this is why BCC needs to have its control over BT revoked. BCC is in a position of zero accountability, they could take all the buses off the road tomorrow and would simply blame TransLink, even though to use that reasoning in the real world is totally irrational and negligent.

[ozbob]

http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2013/03/bue-review-gets-passed-to-brisbane-city-council.html

612 ABC Brisbane

Bus review gets passed to Brisbane City Council

22 March 2013 , 10:34 AM by Sally Rope

Were you happy with the State Government Bus review, or did you lose a favourite bus route?

Millions of dollars were spent on the review, it was announced with much fanfare by State Transport Minister Scott Emerson - a week down the track - it's off!

Yesterday, Brisbane Mayor Graham Quirk announced the State Government had passed the review process to Brisbane City Council.

Robert Dow is the spokesperson for Rail Back On Track, a community group fighting for a sustainable public transport system, and he spoke to Kelly Higgins-Devine...

Click --> here!

Kelly also spoke to Transport minister Scott Emerson, who tried to explain the reasoning behind the move...

Click --> here!

^ Worth listening too again ...  Kelly HD was one of a few in the media that actually saw through the charade ...

Yes BCC directed BT to not cooperate.  The interview above is where the Transport Minister was asked about that.

The RTI details and link is here --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=10146.msg130035#msg130035

[Golliwog]

It's really kind of depressing that (broadly speaking) the quality of Australian/Queensland journalism is quite poor. The journalists are typically only reporting what they're told, only asking the obvious questions and not having the time to delve deeper into an issue or find the real cause.

To some extent I guess the advent of 24hr news has put the focus on getting 'something' out to break the story before the other guy, rather than actually finding out the full story. There are some exceptions of course (that interview with Kelly HD being one of them) but when the line of questioning there isn't pushed by other journalists, or reported in the bigger papers then it generally means that no one knows.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Another day another good use of resources.

Followed from RSBS.


Chasing the 340.


Valley brothers

[ozbob]

^ WTF is that a network or is it a .......

[ozbob]

I might add to, at one stage today I was on a 515 bus, and we were singing songs .. but hey that is what is special about the 515,  "we are the frequent bus, don't stuff with us .."

[#Metro]

It's really kind of depressing that (broadly speaking) the quality of Australian/Queensland journalism is quite poor. The journalists are typically only reporting what they're told, only asking the obvious questions and not having the time to delve deeper into an issue or find the real cause.

To some extent I guess the advent of 24hr news has put the focus on getting 'something' out to break the story before the other guy, rather than actually finding out the full story. There are some exceptions of course (that interview with Kelly HD being one of them) but when the line of questioning there isn't pushed by other journalists, or reported in the bigger papers then it generally means that no one knows.

Times are changing. Newspapers publish what people want to read. If they did not do this, the newspaper would not sell, the money coming in would soon dry up and the paper would go broke and be shut down. People want to read sex scandals, get confirmation that they are battlers, an ego stroke, a little politics, sport, headline stories etc. The main use of newspapers in my household is in the toilet as a floor paper absorbent. I particularly find that The Courier Mail with it's thicker pages is quite good for this use. That is about as much use I have for them, but that to one side, I can understand that most people want to read the stuff that is published like it is today.

Fear campaigns and scandals are things papers like. FACTS DON'T SELL. Long technical analysis does not sell. Fear, Sex and first world problem whinging does.

People are bombarded with information these days. Less really is more. Hence the evolution of new media channels like Twitter (140 characters max), Facebook. There are new channels for more informed analysis like blogs (Human Transit, The Melbourne Urbanist) and Crikey. And of course, anyone can now start up their own media outlet if they want to (Brizcommuter).

[HappyTrainGuy]

^ WTF is that a network or is it a .......

.........CONGA PARTY!!!!



Da da da da da DA! Da da da da da DA! Da da da da da DA! Da da da da da DA!

[ozbob]

LDT  yo! It is a very vexed battle  ... but one I  will maintain ...Pie&

[ozbob]

^ WTF is that a network or is it a .......

.........CONGA PARTY!!!!



Da da da da da DA! Da da da da da DA! Da da da da da DA! Da da da da da DA!

This is yo!

[ozbob]

I might add to, at one stage today I was on a 515 bus, and we were singing songs .. but hey that is what is special about the 515,  "we are the frequent bus, don't stuff with us .."

And  if you want to survive out west, give three cheers for the ... 524  !

We love it!

[HappyTrainGuy]

I should also add that I saw the outbound 111 + 555 bumper to bumper at the Cultural Centre this morning....  :conf

DUPLICATION TO THE MAX

[techblitz]

Since BCC cant be reasoned with on the bus review.I think its more a case of " hoping for an early election" to increases chances of BT seperation from bcc.Could be a long wait

[James]

I should also add that I saw the outbound 111 + 555 bumper to bumper at the Cultural Centre this morning....  :conf

DUPLICATION TO THE MAX

HTG, I hope you're aware that it is in fact timetabled this way on weekends outbound...


Also, a variety of pictures of the BCC bus conga line at 9:20am on a Friday morning outbound... "the bus network is not broken"...




My chauffer-driven taxi 200 BUZ past Carindale. Don't cut my bus


Inbound now. Ohai 222, we were running a bit late for our rendezvous at Carindale, where we were going to hold hands and go to the City together, whoops! I can't believe you ran away from me - at least we're together now, for a little while. At least we're just like the 111/555 on weekends!



And of course, my EXPRESS BUS from MY DOORSTEP to the CBD with ME - the SOLE PASSENGER - on board! Thank you residents of the northside! Thank you HTG! Thank you ozbob! Thank you Gazza! Thank you all other forum members who don't have bus services at 7pm at night, yet are paying the state government and up to $400 in rates a year to subsidise my direct service to the CBD! Don't cut my bus!

[HappyTrainGuy]

Hence why I pointed out DUPLICATION TO THE MAX!

[HappyTrainGuy]

I was sent this earlier this evening. Apparently this morning at the Aspley interchange all the bays were full with empty buses (I assume waiting to start peak hour services) bar the 345 bay. When the outbound 345 arrived the driver locked up the bus and ducked off out of sight. Within seconds of leaving the bus the inbound 345 which was running a couple minutes late arrived with no where to go so it had to wait for the driver to return before picking up passengers.


The bus was delayed long enough that the following inbound 345 overtook it while picking up passengers at the Rode Road stop where it then played leapfrog.


Apparently its not common but it's interesting to say the least considering how many routes actually start there (pretty sure its only 4 - 350/351 peak rocket and 345/P343 Rocket). You'd think some terminating 345's could make up the new inbound 350's.

[Gazza]

Just thinking, but now that Moorooka rail is part of the frequent network, what do people think of just sending the 100 down Beaudesert Rd?

Could have been a nice compromise compared to debuzzing the 100.

[James]

Just thinking, but now that Moorooka rail is part of the frequent network, what do people think of just sending the 100 down Beaudesert Rd?

Could have been a nice compromise compared to debuzzing the 100.

Sending the 100 BUZ down Beaudesert Road is an unwelcome diversion, IMO.

I support changes as per the TransLink review. What makes the residents of Inala/Forest Lake so special that they are unable to change from a bus to a train at Oxley or Darra? Grannies, "my bum doesn't like moving more than twice" and Ms. Palas-useless do not count as reasons why 100 BUZ should be retained.

[techblitz]

Just thinking, but now that Moorooka rail is part of the frequent network, what do people think of just sending the 100 down Beaudesert Rd?

Could have been a nice compromise compared to debuzzing the 100.

question is where to send it...keep it on beaudesert rd? or divert thru south rocklea,archerfield (pretty much the 110 alignment)

[Gazza]

Sending the 100 BUZ down Beaudesert Road is an unwelcome diversion, IMO.

That's (kinda) the point. The route exists to connect the southside with the PA, mainly. CBD bound pax should/would be using the rail network.

Seems dumb to run the 100 past car dealers and clapham yard, and miss the actual pedestrianized/residential bit of Moorooka.

[STB]

I'm actually starting to come to the view that route 100 is no longer needed now Moorooka station has trains every 15mins Monday to Friday (missing in action on the weekends though - but that will come in time).  One could take out route 100 and divert those passengers onto local routes coming into Darra and Oxley stations where route 100 used to service in the Inala/Forest Lake area, while upgrading route 110 in the process.  Passengers wanting to go to the city by bus, could catch route 110 instead of route 100.

Of course though, politically it would be very difficult for one very obvious cause - Brisbane City Council.

[STB]

Something like this, with route 100 deleted, route 110 made the primary route between Inala and the City, and Route 460 servicing the bottom half of route 100, with routes 463 and 534 covering the rest as it already does.

[STB]

Heads up all, the new timetables for the Logan Region have now been uploaded onto the TransLink website.  You'll have to type in the individual route numbers for the moment until they load it up onto the Logan Region change page to find the new PDF timetables.  For route 547, just modify the URL that takes you to an existing route and type in '547', where you see the route number in the URL, and it will take you to that page, otherwise it'll come up with an error.

[nathandavid88]

I've been having a look through the Logan Region timetables and have noticed something rather weird – inconsistent departure timing where the departure time changes by a couple of minutes once or twice throughout the day, usually around peak hour.

For example:

Route 560  http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/140120-560.pdf

Inbound (to Loganholme) leaves on the hour/half hour from 6am until 9am on weekdays, then leaves at 3 mins/33 mins past the hour for the rest of the day and all day weekends. Arrival times at Loganholme remain a constant 28mins/58mins past the hour

Route 550 http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/140120-550,551,561,P581.pdf

Inbound (to Springwood) leaves at 6.47, 7.13, 7.43, 8.15, 8.46, 9.17 and then 17mins/47mins past the hour until 5.17pm, with the following services being at 5.51 and 6.21 before going back to 7.17.  Arrival times don't make any sense whatsoever – an 8.15am service gets me to Springwood at 9:12am, but a 9:17am service gets me there at 10.10am.

Route 545 http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/140120-545.pdf

Outbound (to Browns Plains) leaves at 6mins/36mins past the hour until 8.36am, then it changes to 7mins/37mins past the hour until 2.07pm, before it goes back to 6mins/36mins past again until 6.06pm, then it goes to 10mins/40mins past. Inbound to Springwood has 5 different departure patterns!!!

I've had a look through a lot of other Logan routes (555, 552, 572, 554) and they all seem to be unaffected as far as I can tell, so what is it about these three routes that they've decided to make them unusually complicated like this?

[STB]

I've been having a look through the Logan Region timetables and have noticed something rather weird – inconsistent departure timing where the departure time changes by a couple of minutes once or twice throughout the day, usually around peak hour.

For example:

Route 560  http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/140120-560.pdf

Inbound (to Loganholme) leaves on the hour/half hour from 6am until 9am on weekdays, then leaves at 3 mins/33 mins past the hour for the rest of the day and all day weekends. Arrival times at Loganholme remain a constant 28mins/58mins past the hour

Route 550 http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/140120-550,551,561,P581.pdf

Inbound (to Springwood) leaves at 6.47, 7.13, 7.43, 8.15, 8.46, 9.17 and then 17mins/47mins past the hour until 5.17pm, with the following services being at 5.51 and 6.21 before going back to 7.17.  Arrival times don't make any sense whatsoever – an 8.15am service gets me to Springwood at 9:12am, but a 9:17am service gets me there at 10.10am.

Route 545 http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/140120-545.pdf

Outbound (to Browns Plains) leaves at 6mins/36mins past the hour until 8.36am, then it changes to 7mins/37mins past the hour until 2.07pm, before it goes back to 6mins/36mins past again until 6.06pm, then it goes to 10mins/40mins past. Inbound to Springwood has 5 different departure patterns!!!

I've had a look through a lot of other Logan routes (555, 552, 572, 554) and they all seem to be unaffected as far as I can tell, so what is it about these three routes that they've decided to make them unusually complicated like this?

Likely to do with taking into account of different run times throughout the day to account for changes in patronage and traffic conditions.  I've caught route 545 in the past and the run time in the middle of the day can be quite different to later in the day when you have more pick ups and drop offs.

[SurfRail]

That would be optimisation coming from Trip Tracker I expect.

[techblitz]

545,550 definitely at the upper end for unreliability at peak. 3 mins probably not enough but at least its something...

[nathandavid88]

I guess that makes sense, but wouldn't it be better to just alter the route timing for all services to compensate for the longest journey but still maintain consistent timing rather than this piecemeal approach? I personally catch the 545 inbound quite regularly and instead of just remembering that it leaves Browns Plains on the hour and half hour as it does currently, I have this pattern to memorise:

6.02 6.32 | 6.55 7.25 7.55 8.25 | 9.01 9.31 10.01 10.31 11.01 11.31 12.01 12.31 1.01 1.31| 2.00 2.30 | 2.55 3.25 3.55 4.25 4.55 5.25 5.55 6.25 6.55

[James]

I guess that makes sense, but wouldn't it be better to just alter the route timing for all services to compensate for the longest journey but still maintain consistent timing rather than this piecemeal approach? I personally catch the 545 inbound quite regularly and instead of just remembering that it leaves Browns Plains on the hour and half hour as it does currently, I have this pattern to memorise:

6.02 6.32 | 6.55 7.25 7.55 8.25 | 9.01 9.31 10.01 10.31 11.01 11.31 12.01 12.31 1.01 1.31| 2.00 2.30 | 2.55 3.25 3.55 4.25 4.55 5.25 5.55 6.25 6.55

This means the less busy journeys have to dawdle through the suburbs and dwell excessively in order to maintain timetable (i.e. not run early).

I do think the 6:02 + 6:32 and 2:00 + 2:30 times should either stick with the off-peak clockface or the peak clockfate, though. Much easier to remember that if it's peak hour, they're on the :25 and :55, off-peak they're on the :01 and :31 (I'd maybe tidy that up to be on the :00 and :30, but that is just me).

[Set in train]

Highly disappointed at connections and span of services linking (use that word lightly, it remains an oxymoron in many cases) to train stations.

The Gold Coast compared with its northern cousin has not enjoyed the same treatment.

Detailed analysis to follow.

[SurfRail]

Gold Coast timetables are STILL not available.

[Set in train]

A quick example is that of a total train + bus trip to the Gold Coast, now 6mins longer, when despite the painful lengthening of train travel time, this could've been made up via quick transfer to the bus.