SEQ Bus Network Review

[ozbob]

Media release 31st October 2013



SEQ: BCC Bus Cost Explosion engulfs Bardon, Paddington and Kangaroo Point

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers says that residents of Bardon, Paddington and Kangaroo Point have been given a raw deal by the recent bus network review conducted by Brisbane City Council.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The effect of Brisbane City Council opposing the TransLink bus review has caused frequency cuts to bus routes in many areas - including in Cr Peter Matic's own ward. While the creation of a new route, the 234, to replace the eastern section of the 475, is welcome news, this has come at a serious cost to the community."

"The 234 and 475 have both had their frequency reduced to every hour in the off-peak, taking a huge toll on the immobile and disabled. Pensioners in Kangaroo Point are up in arms about how a trip from Kangaroo Point to the PA, which used to take them 15 minutes, now takes them over an hour (1)."

"Such reductions are not due to a forced transfer, but due to the severe reduction in frequency in Kangaroo Point. The TransLink bus review proposed the retention of the 475 on similar frequency, with the current 234 to be upgraded into an outer loop with frequency better than that on the 475."

"Instead, BCC has chosen to stick with a hi-waste anti-connection bus network, which has forced cuts to successful bus routes, in order to retain hi-waste routes such as the 161, 232 and 314. Why is it that the residents of Kangaroo Point, Bardon and Paddington are being forced to pay even more on top of their council rates for BCC to run the bus network, even though these residents are suffering from severe cutbacks in service?"

"This very same network is the network which also has buses passing through the core point in the network, Cultural Centre busway station, at 50% loads, losing significant amounts of money that could be put towards service improvements for users of the 234 and 475. Yet Graham Quirk still says with a straight face that '...the bus network is not broken and does not need revolutionary change ...'."

"The Lord Mayor and BCC can no longer be trusted to run Brisbane's buses. After a decade of games, it's time to dump Brisbane City Council and separate Brisbane Transport."

Reference:

1. Pensioner protest over bus route changes http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/pensioner-protest-over-bus-route-changes-20131030-2whig.html

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Pensioner protest over bus route changes

[bagbuffy]

Cut the 232? Serious? Is Railbot now supporting cutting routes to Bulimba, Morningside and Cannon Hill? Are we now considered over serviced to Railbot?

The Translink review had kept the 232, with better servicing then what it is now! 232 numbers aren't world beaters but it held its own.

Streamline the 232 yes agreed, Cut the 232 No way.

[ozbob]

No one is saying cut the 232, just pointing out it needs improvement as you agree ...

[techblitz]

Not to worry bagbuffy....your 232 is staying... Just needs sunday services...but fat chance of it happening until local residents get some petitions happening.   VFM High / Patronage moderate


city south news 31.10.13



73 percent either positive or neutral on the new route. Perhaps the route will get freq upgrade in the future if busy enough.

[#Metro]

I did say that merging the 29 UQ Lakes and 234 would be one idea. That would drop passengers at the new DDA compliant PA Hospital Busway station.

Although not perfect, it's not a major issue to perform short terminators on the new amalgamated route at W'Gabba also if load support is only required between UQ Lakes and W'Gabba

[James]

Cut the 232? Serious? Is Railbot now supporting cutting routes to Bulimba, Morningside and Cannon Hill? Are we now considered over serviced to Railbot?

The Translink review had kept the 232, with better servicing then what it is now! 232 numbers aren't world beaters but it held its own.

Streamline the 232 yes agreed, Cut the 232 No way.

The 232, in its current form, is an awful urban safari route which only really picks up patronage along inner Wynnum Road. The route needs a serious application of the TransLink steam iron. It is like the 200 series equivalent of the 172 (either that or the 202).

In hindsight the 417 would have been a better example, and a more local one in my case.

73 percent either positive or neutral on the new route. Perhaps the route will get freq upgrade in the future if busy enough.

Obviously nobody looked at the span of hours then...

I think that 234 should first be upgraded to half-hourly Monday - Saturday, so there is no net loss of services vs. the timetable prior to October 14th. That solves the problem of frequency. The second task is to extend the 234 to the PAH or Park Road (busway). I don't like tacking it on to the end of the 29 as the 29 is a peaky Monday - Friday route, and having 'every third trip goes to City via Kangaroo Point' will just confuse people.

[SurfRail]

Joining the 117 up to the 234 is another possibility seeing that they are now the only 2 routes to terminate at the Gabba.  It would reinstate the connection that has been lost. 

Could send it via the Gabba station platforms and u-turn via the layover area if that is possible.

[Gazza]

The 232, in its current form, is an awful urban safari route which only really picks up patronage along inner Wynnum Road.

Isn't that the point though? It's an hourly coverage route. Why would you expect it to pick up much patronage?

[techblitz]

The 232, in its current form, is an awful urban safari route which only really picks up patronage along inner Wynnum Road.

Isn't that the point though? It's an hourly coverage route. Why would you expect it to pick up much patronage?

Precisely gazza
Basic bare minimum coverage to keep people happy who are unable to drive. Either cut back coverage and increase freq or cut back freq and increase coverage.Hard decisions to factor in when transport planning.A balance is what is needed.
Other safari routes on hourly.. similar to 232. >>>124/125/117/327/346/361

[James]

The 232, in its current form, is an awful urban safari route which only really picks up patronage along inner Wynnum Road.

Isn't that the point though? It's an hourly coverage route. Why would you expect it to pick up much patronage?

Yes, but resources could be saved by telling people in the majority of the routes catchment area to harden up and walk 200m, or terminating it at a mid-point.

Sort of like the 417. Yes there is a need for it, but it does not need to join the bus conga line at Toowong (and subsequently run non-stop to the CBD because people actually avoid routes which aren't the 444).

Precisely gazza
Basic bare minimum coverage to keep people happy who are unable to drive. Either cut back coverage and increase freq or cut back freq and increase coverage.Hard decisions to factor in when transport planning.A balance is what is needed.
Other safari routes on hourly.. similar to 232. >>>124/125/117/327/346/361

124/125 are hardly coverage routes - remember the 125 was to be BUZed in the review...

327/361 are both awful northside routes which have poor patronage due to competing bus routes and simply crappy routing. 361 is the northside's equivalent of the 172. Should be steam-ironed and made less awful.

And don't get me started on the 346, the bus which carried me (the sole passenger) NON-STOP from RBWH to Aspley Hyperdome. And thanks to 9 then free, it was for FREE! FREE! 346 should be cut and burnt at the stake, it serves no useful purpose aside from duplicating pre-existing routes. Sure, it could have some use in peak, but off-peak it is just a complete waste of money and an urban safari tour. CUT CUT CUT!

[kazzac]

The 125 service should have been BUZzed,I agree ,the TL bus review would have been better than this current mess ,I do agree that terminating route 117 at W'gabba was a great idea, also glad there is still an early O/bound service (5.45am )for any workers whom  have to travel to factories /warehouses along Beaudesart Rd Moorooka /Acacia Ridge.

[SurfRail]

I'm not convinced those routes follow a reasonable alignment even for coverage purposes.  There's always room for improvement, and Brisbane is full of historical relics from vocal locals which never got fixed (eg the difference between the 2 terminating points in Rainworth for the 475 and 476, the loop the 301 does around Pleystowe in Hendra etc).

[techblitz]

Yea SR always room for improvement on the hourlies.
Anyone know what was replacing the 186 in the TL review?
This route is the main route for the klummp rd  parknride and TL wanted to remove it..

Ps: currently on a 369 ex mitchelton 2pax onboard.  @ld

[minbrisbane]

186 was not being replaced as such from what I remember.

[techblitz]

186 was not being replaced as such from what I remember.

Yep looks like it from the maps.

TL said klummp rd P&R would be serviced by a revised peak network but what routes?
Sending them back to garden city (via s409 and freq#23) then onto the busway would have been pointless since there is Macgregor P&R. Connecting via Nathan campus at decent frequency between campuses would have been a challenge.

funny how they put this in the information box >>>

will also have access to frequent route #23 GARDEN CITY TO CITY VIA IPSWICH ROAD

only an extra 30-40 minutes added onto the trip to the city

Safe to say if there was no replacement....this 200 space park and ride would have gone backwards instead of forward. The point of a large (rather expensive) park and ride like this is to attract people to it by providing the fastest possible trip into the city....
Would have been one of the interesting things to monitor if TL review had been  .

[achiruel]

the loop the 301 does

Isn't the whole point of that to enable interchange at Doomben Station?

[longboi]

186 was not being replaced as such from what I remember.

Yep looks like it from the maps.

TL said klummp rd P&R would be serviced by a revised peak network but what routes?
Sending them back to garden city (via s409 and freq#23) then onto the busway would have been pointless since there is Macgregor P&R. Connecting via Nathan campus at decent frequency between campuses would have been a challenge.

funny how they put this in the information box >>>

will also have access to frequent route #23 GARDEN CITY TO CITY VIA IPSWICH ROAD

only an extra 30-40 minutes added onto the trip to the city

Safe to say if there was no replacement....this 200 space park and ride would have gone backwards instead of forward. The point of a large (rather expensive) park and ride like this is to attract people to it by providing the fastest possible trip into the city....
Would have been one of the interesting things to monitor if TL review had been  .

I'm guessing you use this park n ride.

No different to any trunk and feeder system. What makes people who park n ride any more deserving of a direct service than somebody who walks to their bus stop?

Klumpp Rd doesn't get a great deal of boardings, therefore an easy place to save a few KMs. The idea is that people who previously used the park n ride would have access to improved services closer to home. Those that still continued to drive would just have had to learn how to read a timetable.

[James]

I'm guessing you use this park n ride.

No different to any trunk and feeder system. What makes people who park n ride any more deserving of a direct service than somebody who walks to their bus stop?

Klumpp Rd doesn't get a great deal of boardings, therefore an easy place to save a few KMs. The idea is that people who previously used the park n ride would have access to improved services closer to home. Those that still continued to drive would just have had to learn how to read a timetable.

I'm not agreeing with techblitz's remarks regarding the services provided, but the main aim of providing a Park n Ride is to provide a facility where passengers can drive to an area either not served by PT or by inferior PT options to a place where there are significantly improved PT options available. This is why we see Park n Rides along railway lines and BUZ corridors.

I think the Klumpp Rd PnR falls into the same category as the Jindalee one. There is absolutely no incentive to Park n Ride at the Jindalee Park n Ride because all services serving the Park n Ride at Jindalee also serve all other stops in the area west of the M5 between the river and Mt Ommaney. The only passengers who might consider it are those in and around Windemere - beyond that, pax will go to Oxley and take advantage of faster/more frequent rail services that don't depart from three places in the CBD on odd frequencies.

Now had the F26 been implemented with the sub-par west Jindalee feeder giving coverage to the rest of the area, I'm sure use of the Park n Ride would have soared as the PnR would have been served by a frequent route and the majority of Jindalee left with an awful bus service which takes them nowhere.

But back to Klumpp Road - the surrounding area is served very well by BUZes/other semi-frequent routes, hence the lack of need for the Park n Ride. Yes, it does get serviced by the 120, which is a plus, but it doesn't take a fast routing to the CBD. One thing which does surprise me, though, is why a massive amount of Uni students are not parking there. Surely Griffith charges for parking, or at least there are parking constraints, like those which exist at UQ? I am over 2km from the Uni and students still park in back streets here and bus it to UQ. Saves them money (well, in peak it may cost them an extra 30 cents) and time trying to find a park.

[techblitz]

@nikko

the issue here is already built & operational infrastructure and trying to encourage people to use it to at least make it look like it was worth building and make it look like it is pulling cars off the road ...unfairness of certain passengers over other passengers? comeon  ......& lets say the new proposed services did sweep up most of the current users...where does that leave the park and ride Back to square 1!
With its current 186 rocket...while it not a slacks creek or mains rd...its definitely on the improve.

I would say TL felt it wasn't getting parked well enough...fair enough..they had the numbers and I would believe them on that.... but just delete its frequent/direct peak route? Backward step for such an expensive piece of infrastructure(33000 per space,200 spaces).

How hard would it have been for translink to start a peak route near or at klummp rd.
D/running to and from garden city depot would have been minimal and if they made it all stops on the busway it would have got the VFM up. They should have worked something in there to have it better serviced.

Another rbot member has previously stated how well it gets used...I don't use it myself.... but do keep an eye on its numbers as I pass it regularly on the 120 and it has been slowly increasing over the last 12-15months.....slowly but at least its not going in the other direction!

Klummp rd is rather a big priority as its not your average small p&r...its a large one which needs to be at least 75 percent parked to make it useful.Pulling 200 cars off the road should be a priority.

@james
+1
was actually going to ask how well is the jindalee one doing. I envisaged it as a struggler like klummp rd. All the other park and rides do well due to them offering considerable timesavings and strategic placement of course. Slacks creek is going off the hook apparently. The gap is one to keep an eye on!

[longboi]

I'm guessing you use this park n ride.

No different to any trunk and feeder system. What makes people who park n ride any more deserving of a direct service than somebody who walks to their bus stop?

Klumpp Rd doesn't get a great deal of boardings, therefore an easy place to save a few KMs. The idea is that people who previously used the park n ride would have access to improved services closer to home. Those that still continued to drive would just have had to learn how to read a timetable.

I'm not agreeing with techblitz's remarks regarding the services provided, but the main aim of providing a Park n Ride is to provide a facility where passengers can drive to an area either not served by PT or by inferior PT options to a place where there are significantly improved PT options available. This is why we see Park n Rides along railway lines and BUZ corridors.

I think the Klumpp Rd PnR falls into the same category as the Jindalee one. There is absolutely no incentive to Park n Ride at the Jindalee Park n Ride because all services serving the Park n Ride at Jindalee also serve all other stops in the area west of the M5 between the river and Mt Ommaney. The only passengers who might consider it are those in and around Windemere - beyond that, pax will go to Oxley and take advantage of faster/more frequent rail services that don't depart from three places in the CBD on odd frequencies.

Now had the F26 been implemented with the sub-par west Jindalee feeder giving coverage to the rest of the area, I'm sure use of the Park n Ride would have soared as the PnR would have been served by a frequent route and the majority of Jindalee left with an awful bus service which takes them nowhere.

But back to Klumpp Road - the surrounding area is served very well by BUZes/other semi-frequent routes, hence the lack of need for the Park n Ride. Yes, it does get serviced by the 120, which is a plus, but it doesn't take a fast routing to the CBD. One thing which does surprise me, though, is why a massive amount of Uni students are not parking there. Surely Griffith charges for parking, or at least there are parking constraints, like those which exist at UQ? I am over 2km from the Uni and students still park in back streets here and bus it to UQ. Saves them money (well, in peak it may cost them an extra 30 cents) and time trying to find a park.

Thing is, it's low-hanging fruit (based on current demand). When you need to cater to current and future demand with less funding you can't afford the 'build and they will come' approach. You consolidate where services will have the greatest value for money and service the greatest number of people.

If we weren't in an LNP environment, we would see better investment in actually growing the network.

[James]

@james

if the 186 went via Nathan campus I would say there would be some more uptake at the park and ride. 186 currently getting good numbers from wishart and from the city.
Note: Turns out there is a single route in the morning which starts from the park and ride directly 

The 120 comes from campus full time - and it is in the peak direction to, so every 10 minutes. I'm very aware about how well the 186 does.

But Jindalee will only get 1/3 full at most. Whenever I pass it (which isn't too frequently - has probably been a month or so now), it really doesn't have good patronage - but it stands to reason. I'll pop in there some time when I go on bus safari in the Centenary suburbs. One place I haven't really got to, aside from the 103/106/468.

Thing is, it's low-hanging fruit (based on current demand). When you need to cater to current and future demand with less funding you can't afford the 'build and they will come' approach. You consolidate where services will have the greatest value for money and service the greatest number of people.

If we weren't in an LNP environment, we would see better investment in actually growing the network.

If this is with relation to the Jindalee Park n Ride, I agree. If you adopted my review, that'd cover most of Jindalee quite effectively, meaning that there would be no need at all for a Park n Ride.

Park n Rides feed off poor PT elsewhere. There's a reason Kenmore's Park n Ride does so well, its because there are places in Pullenvale, Brookfield and even further afield which simply do not have PT access (and it is uneconomical to give them PT access beyond Council Cabs/FlexiTaxis).

[longboi]

@james

if the 186 went via Nathan campus I would say there would be some more uptake at the park and ride. 186 currently getting good numbers from wishart and from the city.
Note: Turns out there is a single route in the morning which starts from the park and ride directly 

The 120 comes from campus full time - and it is in the peak direction to, so every 10 minutes. I'm very aware about how well the 186 does.

But Jindalee will only get 1/3 full at most. Whenever I pass it (which isn't too frequently - has probably been a month or so now), it really doesn't have good patronage - but it stands to reason. I'll pop in there some time when I go on bus safari in the Centenary suburbs. One place I haven't really got to, aside from the 103/106/468.

Thing is, it's low-hanging fruit (based on current demand). When you need to cater to current and future demand with less funding you can't afford the 'build and they will come' approach. You consolidate where services will have the greatest value for money and service the greatest number of people.

If we weren't in an LNP environment, we would see better investment in actually growing the network.

If this is with relation to the Jindalee Park n Ride, I agree. If you adopted my review, that'd cover most of Jindalee quite effectively, meaning that there would be no need at all for a Park n Ride.

Park n Rides feed off poor PT elsewhere. There's a reason Kenmore's Park n Ride does so well, its because there are places in Pullenvale, Brookfield and even further afield which simply do not have PT access (and it is uneconomical to give them PT access beyond Council Cabs/FlexiTaxis).

So which suburbs in the catchment area for Klumpp Rd PnR would you classify as being in the same category as Pullenvale or Brookfield?

[techblitz]

with the park and ride/186 and quick trip on the 120 to garden city/kessels corner.Proximity to uni. Time to get klummp road into T.O.D mode.
Its problem is its plethora of sports fields. REALLY was a bad decision to build p&r it there. Infact perhaps the biggest 6million dollar stuff-up of all.
A positive if the TL review was passed is that it would have emptied to the point of BCC just giving up on it..ripping it up and putting something else there

[STB]

Does anyone know if Klumpp Road Park and Ride is used by Griffith University students and/or staff to park there and then catch the 120 in, rather than paying premium to park on the campus itself?

[James]

So which suburbs in the catchment area for Klumpp Rd PnR would you classify as being in the same category as Pullenvale or Brookfield?

None. All suburbs within the Klumpp Road PnR are well-serviced by PT. Where the Klumpp Road PnR is located is pretty much the opposite of a PT black hole. There's Griffith Uni and its associated billion buses nearby, two BUZ routes passing nearby along with multiple near BUZ standard routes (184/185, 174/175) along with a variety of other services.

The only areas I can think of are the ones off the 130/140 BUZ corridor around Sunnybank (i.e. south of QE2), and even those areas aren't too badly off. By comparison, parts of Pullenvale have no PT at all, areas away from the 444 have no PT, and the PT in Brookfield is either shocking or non-existent. To add to that, PT in Kenmore really isn't amazing either. There's a reason why everybody parks at Indooroopilly or along the 444 BUZ route, it is because the network is an infrequent mess in the west.

[techblitz]

Does anyone know if Klumpp Road Park and Ride is used by Griffith University students and/or staff to park there and then catch the 120 in, rather than paying premium to park on the campus itself?

cant be certain but I would say a handful at most.
Student vehicle conga lines all the way up the ring road. Clearly the students don't mind the walk.
any idea on how the Capalaba p&r is doing these days?

[longboi]

So which suburbs in the catchment area for Klumpp Rd PnR would you classify as being in the same category as Pullenvale or Brookfield?

None. All suburbs within the Klumpp Road PnR are well-serviced by PT. Where the Klumpp Road PnR is located is pretty much the opposite of a PT black hole. There's Griffith Uni and its associated billion buses nearby, two BUZ routes passing nearby along with multiple near BUZ standard routes (184/185, 174/175) along with a variety of other services.

The only areas I can think of are the ones off the 130/140 BUZ corridor around Sunnybank (i.e. south of QE2), and even those areas aren't too badly off. By comparison, parts of Pullenvale have no PT at all, areas away from the 444 have no PT, and the PT in Brookfield is either shocking or non-existent. To add to that, PT in Kenmore really isn't amazing either. There's a reason why everybody parks at Indooroopilly or along the 444 BUZ route, it is because the network is an infrequent mess in the west.

This is what I'm saying. I think it would have been a waste in a post-TL review environment to invest in a high-frequency route for the sole purpose of servicing Klumpp Rd.

[STB]

Does anyone know if Klumpp Road Park and Ride is used by Griffith University students and/or staff to park there and then catch the 120 in, rather than paying premium to park on the campus itself?

cant be certain but I would say a handful at most.
Student vehicle conga lines all the way up the ring road. Clearly the students don't mind the walk.
any idea on how the Capalaba p&r is doing these days?

Fairly empty the last I saw it, but it has been a while since I've gone past there.  I'll check it out again in a fortnight.

[ozbob]

Inbound ex Goodna SMU 225 8.12am, observing the car parking meltdowns on the way in ...

Goodna parked out river side, few spots left on St Ives side Park n' Ride

Gailes very solid verge parking several hundreds ..

Wacol parked out with significant over flow to verge, hundreds ...

Darra completely parked out ... cars jammed everywhere in side streets and roads ...

Worse than ever.  Pity about the failed connected bus network hey?  ...

It is getting beyond funny the incompetence and intransigence ...

[James]

I wouldn't label being parked out a product of the bus review at Goodna/Gailes/somewhat Wacol. All those areas are mostly dealt with by the Ipswich side of things, I'm sure they'll improve once Springfield opens/the review comes in.

Darra, however, could have been seriously improved by the review. People of Sinammon Park/Riverhills would have flocked to the F25 - would have provided a quick trip to Darra station then 20 mins to CBD on an express train. Oxley, from what I've seen, is even worse, but that is mostly because of the appalling feeder along 17 Mile Rocks Road. Admittedly the ugly anti-PT design of some of the suburbia out that way really hinders the bus network.

[ozbob]

A proper connected BCC bus network frees up more resources (funds) for ALL REGIONS to have better feeders James ...  better frequency and span of hours ...

[techblitz]

Failed bus review is only part of the problem...the other will always be lifestyle choice.
Please tell me how you are going to persuade people to ditch cars and take-up bus feeders..when most of them have shopping to do after work?Gyms to go to? Touch football etc etc?
Outer suburb commuters spend enough time commuting to the train station...they dont want extra delays waiting around for a feeder bus to leave. Hop off the bus...do their stuff....wait for the next bus home.
Park and rides at train stations will always be popular due to this fact.

If you guys are going to do surveys...may i suggest doing some questions on passengers shopping and other lifestyle habits after work.Finding out why commuters are parking and riding at the station in the first place would be time better spent

Once again i will reiterate...failed bus review is an issue but only PART of the problem of overparked p&r"s.

[ozbob]

Unless people can get to and from key rail and bus stations by feeder bus with good connections frequency and spans,  it will never really improve.  Of course some people prefer to drive for reasons that are obvious, but we simply cannot continue expanding park and ride spaces to infinity.  Not everyone can wait an hour for a bus ...

Amazing that some of the Ipswich CRG members have remarked a number of times they had better options for buses to stations 15 to 20 years ago than today ...  incredible but true for those people ...

[STB]

I actually agree with Techblitz - you need to take into account lifestyle choices made by people and why they choose (probably out of pure neccessity) of park and riding (eg: taking their kids to daycare/school, picking up their kids from daycare/school, shopping after coming home from work, other extra-curricular activities etc.)  Routes 522/530 give a 15min frequency for part of the route IIRC, but yet from catching those buses earlier this year for a few weeks while I was living out there temporarily, they were only a 1/4 full.

Springfield will probably absorb some of the park and riders, although I am wondering now if a lot of those park and riders will continue to go to Goodna etc because of the express trains.

[techblitz]

Yes ozbob increased feeder frequency will definitely pull some out of the park and rides...or will it?
Cant really tell until people are surveyed to get a general idea. Any station which doesnt have close frequent bus access to shopping centers would be a good place to start...and i see richlands,gailes,wacol as perfect examples.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I think it really depends on a whole host of things. One area is different to the next. Fares, location, total travel time, frequency, overcrowding, late services, interchanges etc. You might be able to get more resources in some areas which locals could utilize but that doesn't prevent those from further out areas continuing to drive a few zones closer which is what goes on quite a lot at Northgate, Bald Hills, Petrie and even to some extent Albion.

But you have to start somewhere and that's in the form of a proper public transport network. Intergrated. Good frequency. Good span of hours. Fast to travel. And most importantly affordable and easy to use.

[James]

The people on this forum really overestimate how many do shopping on the way home from work. The answer is well, not many. Yes, the 411 goes straight past Toowong, but it is uncommon for me to do my shopping on the way home. And people do not go shopping 7 days a week either!

The only possibly valid point is daycare/after school care, but given in the outer suburbs that people don't get home until 6pm, I don't think its an extremely high percentage of Park n Riders. Most would have an arrangement for granny to pick up the kids or have a stay/work-at-home parent.

Failed bus review is only part of the problem...the other will always be lifestyle choice.
Please tell me how you are going to persuade people to ditch cars and take-up bus feeders..when most of them have shopping to do after work?Gyms to go to? Touch football etc etc?
Outer suburb commuters spend enough time commuting to the train station...they dont want extra delays waiting around for a feeder bus to leave. Hop off the bus...do their stuff....wait for the next bus home.
Park and rides at train stations will always be popular due to this fact.

If you guys are going to do surveys...may i suggest doing some questions on passengers shopping and other lifestyle habits after work.Finding out why commuters are parking and riding at the station in the first place would be time better spent

Once again i will reiterate...failed bus review is an issue but only PART of the problem of overparked p&r"s.

It is because buses do not connect with every train service, and the rail frequency/span of hours is far superior. Lets use a person in 17 Mile Rocks (the Edenbrooke estate, to be precise). To get to the bus, they firstly have to WALK to the bus, spend up to HALF AN HOUR waiting for the 467, and then finally get to Oxley station. Alternatively, they can hop in their car, drive to Oxley, and take advantage of a train coming every 12 minutes. And what if work runs late? Using the 467, if one leaves the city after 6:00pm, there is a very real chance that one may have to either walk or catch a taxi home. Hence, people drive.

Stations in Brisbane are parked out because feeder buses (on practically all lines aside from the Richalnds/Ipswich line) are mythical beings which simply do not exist, or if they do, can hardly count as 'connecting to trains'.

Another example, ozbob's beloved 524. Half-hourly peak frequency meeting trains coming every 6 minutes!

A proper connected BCC bus network frees up more resources (funds) for ALL REGIONS to have better feeders James ...  better frequency and span of hours ...

I don't think this is a huge factor. BCC cut enough that I don't think it is a big burden on TransLink.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Stations in Brisbane are parked out because feeder buses (on practically all lines aside from the Richalnds/Ipswich line) are mythical beings which simply do not exist, or if they do, can hardly count as 'connecting to trains'.

I think I'll catch the 336/337 to Geebung where there is a train every 7 minutes during peak hour. I'll have to find out what time the first bus comes past?
http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/100222-336,337.pdf
Hmmm.

Damn, just missed the 6.15 Caboolture train by 5 minutes. It's a good thing the next train is only a 10 minute wait. I wonder if I can get a bus home from Burpengary station?
http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/111219-660,664,667.pdf
Hmmmmm

I'm glad that the two Narangba and Burpengary feeders have had their request only services changed to a full time service. What I find annoying is that if there is any small delay (be it a railway related, worked a bit later, socialized a bit late, class ran longer, grabbed something to eat etc) when heading to the outer regions there is a very good chance that you might be left with no pt option to get home after arriving at the station. Unfortunately that is reflected across a lot of areas across the entire SEQ PT network.

[techblitz]

One can get a general perspective of commuter habits by commuting from qsbs or along mains rd at sunny hills, calamvale...simply observe all the shopping bags on buses ,sherwood is another prime example...a lot of commuters head straight to woolies and then do the walk home.
Its really a hard choice for what to build around train stations.....retail or residential.
I prefer retail,with decently close walkup high density residential.