SEQ Bus Network Review

[SurfRail]

A harsh lesson was learnt in implementing this large scale review. Lesson: Make sure you get better support from councellors or they will nitpick it to the rafters in parliament. So much that there is only one inevitable outcome....
There have been large scale reviews before (jim soorley 1995)
but im sure that review wasn't voted down by almost ALL councellors...The mess that occurred on march 12 must never be repeated. Small changes and extensive consultation... council by council over time.... would certainly reduce the risk of this happening again.

Historically it has been important to get the LM and councillors on side.  I think this was a naive attempt to sideswipe them which unfortunately didn't work.

The path from here I think is:

- Region by region changes (break it into 4)
- Detailed public consultation with much better materials and justification - none of those confusing recovery/patronage markers, maps that actually make sense put together professionally, maps of the entire network in each region being reviewed and not just each in isolation
- Hammer it into council that the changes make sense and hit them over the head until they agree.
- Do again 4 years down the track to hammer out even more efficiencies.

[techblitz]

Well said SR

the key is to get the councellors educated first before they hit the streets and talk to their local residents/send out flyers etc....
A lot of them were purposely choosing to ignore the new changes and just focus on what was being taken away.

Eg: Yeronga..where the local councellor seemed more concerned with the 107 being taken away than the HF route being implemented.

Not only that; this Council knows full well and good that this State Government has targeted services that are performing and exceeding expectations. I am going to give a local example, the 107. This is a bus service that services a major retirement village in my ward in Yeronga. The State Government's own findings demonstrate that it is exceeding its minimum requirements. It is more than 70 per cent cost efficient. It averages 26 people on each run. It is being cut, for God's sake. It is being cut. I cannot understand why that bus service is being cut. It is raising money; it certainly has got a high patronage. Eight is the benchmark, apparently, according to the Minister. This service has got 26. That is one example in my ward.

Obviously some of them will still be stubborn no matter how well the consultation goes but I think we would see a vast increase in supportive councellors and hopefully no more inala incidents of 1000 plus phone calls and 400+ signatures....

[ozbob]

A harsh lesson was learnt in implementing this large scale review. Lesson: Make sure you get better support from councellors or they will nitpick it to the rafters in parliament. So much that there is only one inevitable outcome....
There have been large scale reviews before (jim soorley 1995)
but im sure that review wasn't voted down by almost ALL councellors...The mess that occurred on march 12 must never be repeated. Small changes and extensive consultation... council by council over time.... would certainly reduce the risk of this happening again.

Historically it has been important to get the LM and councillors on side.  I think this was a naive attempt to sideswipe them which unfortunately didn't work.

The path from here I think is:

- Region by region changes (break it into 4)
- Detailed public consultation with much better materials and justification - none of those confusing recovery/patronage markers, maps that actually make sense put together professionally, maps of the entire network in each region being reviewed and not just each in isolation
- Hammer it into council that the changes make sense and hit them over the head until they agree.
- Do again 4 years down the track to hammer out even more efficiencies.

In part, but BCC simply did not want to cooperate at all with the TL review.  This was very much a compounding factor, and really is inexcusable.   Agree though it will progress in its own time from here.  Has too really ...

[bcasey]

A harsh lesson was learnt in implementing this large scale review. Lesson: Make sure you get better support from councellors or they will nitpick it to the rafters in parliament. So much that there is only one inevitable outcome....
There have been large scale reviews before (jim soorley 1995)
but im sure that review wasn't voted down by almost ALL councellors...The mess that occurred on march 12 must never be repeated. Small changes and extensive consultation... council by council over time.... would certainly reduce the risk of this happening again.

The path from here I think is:

- Region by region changes (break it into 4)
- Detailed public consultation with much better materials and justification - none of those confusing recovery/patronage markers, maps that actually make sense put together professionally, maps of the entire network in each region being reviewed and not just each in isolation
- Hammer it into council that the changes make sense and hit them over the head until they agree.
- Do again 4 years down the track to hammer out even more efficiencies.

I definitely agree with this. In particular, I think more detailed data should be made available on the proposed network, preferably in a machine-readable format like GTFS. This would allow it to be used in applications like journey planners and accessibility mapping, to help provide more personalised information for the general public. I think that most people would have been more open to the Translink review if they could more easily see how it would affect them, in comparison to their current commutes, as well as seeing how it affects their general mobility around Brisbane. It would also make it easier for PT advocates like us here at RBOT to help promote these changes.

[ozbob]

Your new Sunshine Coast bus network guide

--> http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review-2013/sunshine-coast-network-review-booklet.pdf

On http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review-2013/sunshine-coast

[Fares_Fair]

Received this very informative 60 page booklet in yesterday's mail.

It shows all of the proposed routes and changes.
It shows destinations and suggested bus routes to take to get there.

Unfortunately the only bus service in Palmwoods, loop route 639, remains unchanged.
I did learn it is a continuous loop service from 7am to 6pm weekdays.
It gets people from the caravan park, aged care homes into Nambour shops and TAFE college and local rail stations at Palmwoods, Woombye and Nambour.

A very handy guide. 

[ozbob]

FF please note:


There is a small error in the printed version of this booklet (map of route 618 - servicing Kawana, Parrearra, Kawana Island, Brightwater, Mountain Creek, University of the Sunshine Coast and Sippy Downs – is incorrect in the printed version).  The correct map has been included in all electronic versions and is also on our website and an updated version will be distributed shortly to all affected residents.


Advice from TL

[STB]

There has been complaints about route 609 from folks living on The Esplanade.  Apparently it's too far for them to walk out to where route 609 is planned to go (on the map it's about a 300-400m walk roughly - the ones complaining seem to be elderly folks who seem to want to retain the one way loop as it is today).

[Fares_Fair]

FF please note:


There is a small error in the printed version of this booklet (map of route 618 - servicing Kawana, Parrearra, Kawana Island, Brightwater, Mountain Creek, University of the Sunshine Coast and Sippy Downs – is incorrect in the printed version).  The correct map has been included in all electronic versions and is also on our website and an updated version will be distributed shortly to all affected residents.


Advice from TL

Noted, thank you ozbob. 

[Arnz]

Per social media, there are also a few that are in favor of the 609 changes.  The question is how to balance the route to cater for the elderly.   

Personally I'm still in favor of splitting both the 603 and 609 into 2 separate routes - which should be a discussion for another day whenever the next review comes up in a few years.

603: Bellvista to Golden Beach via Caloundra Hospital and Caloundra Bus Station. 
604: Little Mountain to Pelican Waters via Currimundi Markets and Caloundra Bus Station

That way, the loop is removed, and virtually all streets in the Golden Beach area are retained.  As well as Pelican Waters getting a dedicated service separated off the current Golden Beach loop.

Corbould Park would be covered via the occasional charters during race days.  That section basically sees 0-1 person using it outside of race days.

[James]

A harsh lesson was learnt in implementing this large scale review. Lesson: Make sure you get better support from councellors or they will nitpick it to the rafters in parliament. So much that there is only one inevitable outcome....
There have been large scale reviews before (jim soorley 1995)
but im sure that review wasn't voted down by almost ALL councellors...The mess that occurred on march 12 must never be repeated. Small changes and extensive consultation... council by council over time.... would certainly reduce the risk of this happening again.

In the end, I think BCC should have been dragged kicking and screaming through this process. I think it would have run much better if we had an ALP-led BCC, the LNP would have happily dragged BT through it in order to make it more cost efficient.

Do you see any of the other councils complaining? No, because they have not allowed waste to accumulate like BT has. BT has just piled bus route on to bus route, P-rocket on to P-rocket and air parcels onto more air parcels. I was going to Taringa aboard the 5:10pm 445 yesterday afternoon. 20 passengers, not all bound for FTP. And as we went on to the Ann Street on-ramp, there it was - a line-up of buses spanning across the Victoria Bridge.

And in that little moment, the waste of the BCC network was summed up very nicely. Not to mention the 445 has half-hour service gaps in peak - a common thing for a lot of western suburbs buses.

The councillors of Brisbane were just focusing on pathetic hysteria which was not useful for anybody. And 1995 was 18 years ago. A lot has changed in 18 years, and that change 18 years ago was not focussed on making the network more connective either, as TransLink did not exist.

@James  the anti-Bulimba stance by BCC and therefore BT is more to do with polyticks than reality mate ...

And I totally agree. Its politics getting involved, and that's why we will NEVER see a HF service to Bulimba. MGLD might as well just terminate at Wooloongabba.

[HappyTrainGuy]

340 update. Inbound through Aspley around 2.45pm 0 people onboard. Really makes you wonder why the 340 was made a Buz route. Peak hour I can understand but talk about p%ssing money away off peak. Meanwhile the rest of the northside has hourly bus routes.

[James]

340 update. Inbound through Aspley around 2.45pm 0 people onboard. Really makes you wonder why the 340 was made a Buz route. Peak hour I can understand but talk about p%ssing money away off peak. Meanwhile the rest of the northside has hourly bus routes.

Because apparently the capacity was needed between Chermside and the CBD/they didn't want to have a busway with only 4bph running through it.

[techblitz]

340 update. Inbound through Aspley around 2.45pm 0 people onboard. Really makes you wonder why the 340 was made a Buz route. Peak hour I can understand but talk about p%ssing money away off peak. Meanwhile the rest of the northside has hourly bus routes.

Last time i used that service from Graeme rd (front of warbys) 5pmish...1 person on board and 3 including myself by Chermside.
If they don't want to cut it off @ Chermside...perhaps just run it straight to Carseldine station without the deviation down Graeme,ridley rd etc.
The route is simply not accessible enough around that area..coupled with crap population density and most of those upmarket housing residents probably prefer to drive anyways.
I rate the current 340 up there with 100 buz as a very poor counter peak performer on the first half of its route(inbound).

[HappyTrainGuy]

There are too many buses over servicing corridors while feeders and other routes are neglected. The 336/337 are typical services that should be introduced more and ramped up instead of the 5 daily services between 9am-3pm but the way the translink review streamlined all the routes on the northside (the northside. Not the southside, not out west but the northside) was just a brilliant step forward in having a connected and simplified network. To think the 310, 325, 326, 327, 328, 335, 336, 337, 340, 346 all made way in part and formed 1 feeder loop route. 326, 327, 335, 336, 337, 340 made way for another route. Oh what could have been 

The thing I hate about the 340 is that it should not have been made a buz route in the very first place. It gets poor patronage (for a buz service) Chermside-Carseldine and then between Chermside-City it steals patronage from the 333 if it gets the lights first. Chermside-City is worse as that whole Gympie road corridor is so poorly mismanaged with duplication everywhere such as 330, 333, 340, 370 duplicating to RBWH and 334, 335, 346, 353, 360, 370, 375, 379 duplicating the from as far back as the northern busway to the RBWH and but mostly thru to the Valley. One really has to wonder if the stats for the 340 are influenced because of this. The 340 should not be a city route. It should only be running Carseldine-Chermside and beyond as a feeder service similar to what Translink had planned.

[Set in train]

Heres another example of people power for memories that need refreshing 


Southern Star 25/09

Ok, that estate got the 153 extended, great for peak users. What about the Logan bus from Browns Plains to the railway through that estate, is it still happening?

[Set in train]

The path from here I think is:

- Region by region changes (break it into 4)
- Detailed public consultation with much better materials and justification - none of those confusing recovery/patronage markers, maps that actually make sense put together professionally, maps of the entire network in each region being reviewed and not just each in isolation
- Hammer it into council that the changes make sense and hit them over the head until they agree. Legislate to force BT to be divested.
- Do again 4 years down the track to hammer out even more efficiencies.

And do it every 4 years, populations change, use changes, look at electorates receiving redistributions, so should bus routes.

[SurfRail]

The path from here I think is:

- Region by region changes (break it into 4)
- Detailed public consultation with much better materials and justification - none of those confusing recovery/patronage markers, maps that actually make sense put together professionally, maps of the entire network in each region being reviewed and not just each in isolation
- Hammer it into council that the changes make sense and hit them over the head until they agree. Legislate to force BT to be divested.
- Do again 4 years down the track to hammer out even more efficiencies.

And do it every 4 years, populations change, use changes, look at electorates receiving redistributions, so should bus routes.

Agree with this, but taking BCC out of the picture is not realistically going to happen for a bit.  Not while the current personalities are around, and not with all the debt narrative.

[nathandavid88]

What about the Logan bus from Browns Plains to the railway through that estate, is it still happening?

The 547 from Browns Plains through to Woodridge via Drewvale? Yep, it's still happening as far as I know. My prediction is that it will be a very popular route, because currently to get from Browns Plains to Woodridge, you need either a 545 or a 550, and both are long, meandering routes (the 550 especially). This route shouldn't take more than 15–20 mins tops.

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/bus-review-spin-alert.html
TransLink's spin vs what they should be saying.

[ozbob]

^  increasingly punters are becoming aware that they have been done over ...  been some interesting feedback of late to the radio etc.

Live in hope!   

[techblitz]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/bus-review-spin-alert.html
TransLink's spin vs what they should be saying.

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2013/06/2013-brisbane-city-council-budget-also.html

•Review of CityCat timetable. BrizCommuter would not be surprised if we see cuts to CityCats services (one of Brisbane's tourist icons) to make up for BCC's bus network wastage. Bad, bad, bad!

Nice prediction briz 

[ozbob]

--> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=10008.msg127647#msg127647

[#Metro]

Team Quirk ‏@Team_Quirk
LM @Team_Quirk remains committed to World Class Public T'port system - fleet of 1200 buses 100% air cond 90% disability accessible this year

More like "100% air"

LOL

[Set in train]

What about the Logan bus from Browns Plains to the railway through that estate, is it still happening?

The 547 from Browns Plains through to Woodridge via Drewvale? Yep, it's still happening as far as I know. My prediction is that it will be a very popular route, because currently to get from Browns Plains to Woodridge, you need either a 545 or a 550, and both are long, meandering routes (the 550 especially). This route shouldn't take more than 15–20 mins tops.

That is great news for that estate and all at either end, will really open up their choices.

[minbrisbane]

This brings up a point I really hate.

If they share the same stops, the services should be listed on the same timetable.  On Mt.  Gravatt Capalaba Rd, you've got 260/2 + 180 etc. 

Because our good friends at BT insist on being different, the timetables are shown in different windows. 

Frankly, the TL ones easier to read.

[#Metro]

Can you take a photo of this and perhaps a "Normal" bus timetable and post it?
Otherwise you could PM it to me if you like.

The more evidence, the better!

[Set in train]

Was on the bane of Gold Coast buses on Thu, the 745 towards Nerang Station. Boarded Pac Fair.

This service, due for the 4:29pm northbound train actually made it to the station with two minutes and ten seconds to spare.

I commended the driver, a more senior looking gent with a big beard, big belly and small driving hat and a great person to chat with.

When I said to the driver that this must be the most toughest run to complete in time for the train, instead of the weasel words I have received from others saying I should read the timetable for the disclaimer that there are no guarantees to meet the train, this driver said those missing it were slack/lazy and needed to try harder.

He also said I'd need about 1000 people complaining for there to be a better timetable towards Nerang.

Translink told me the previous week I made a complaint about a 29 min transfer penalty due to 12 min late start and lazy driver throughout that my comments were passed to the network planning team, one can only hope they are making adjustments.

I really like the Sunshine Coast rail/bus connections, 10 mins towards station and 5 leaving. I would like to get it down to three minutes transfer penalty, driver starts the stopwatch when he sees the train doors open and then closes his and drives off precisely three mins later.

No apologies in advance if anyone is offended by my desire for fast public transport. I do support transferring, simply fast transferring.

[James]

Was on the bane of Gold Coast buses on Thu, the 745 towards Nerang Station. Boarded Pac Fair.

This service, due for the 4:29pm northbound train actually made it to the station with two minutes and ten seconds to spare.

I commended the driver, a more senior looking gent with a big beard, big belly and small driving hat and a great person to chat with.

When I said to the driver that this must be the most toughest run to complete in time for the train, instead of the weasel words I have received from others saying I should read the timetable for the disclaimer that there are no guarantees to meet the train, this driver said those missing it were slack/lazy and needed to try harder.

He also said I'd need about 1000 people complaining for there to be a better timetable towards Nerang.

Translink told me the previous week I made a complaint about a 29 min transfer penalty due to 12 min late start and lazy driver throughout that my comments were passed to the network planning team, one can only hope they are making adjustments.

I really like the Sunshine Coast rail/bus connections, 10 mins towards station and 5 leaving. I would like to get it down to three minutes transfer penalty, driver starts the stopwatch when he sees the train doors open and then closes his and drives off precisely three mins later.

No apologies in advance if anyone is offended by my desire for fast public transport. I do support transferring, simply fast transferring.

I have to agree with you there. Close transfers (<5 mins), while they can take a hit in the reliability stakes, when they make a connection, generally make for happy (albeit edgy if they are checking their watch every minute like I tend to do) pax. I've used the 715 on several occasions, and I really do not enjoy the 18-minute transfer gap between the bus and the train to the City. It's simply a pain, especially given the bus in the other direction only has a 5 minute window between the train arriving and the bus leaving. The 765 is done well, I find most of the time it connects with trains - hopefully the 10 minute buffer at Varsity goes come the new bus timetable.

With regards to bus drivers, it all seems to depend on their attitude. Just in my experience from my little commutes home, I've had anything from the bus drivers which floor it along Hawken Drive (probably exceeding the speed limit) to the ones which wait until passengers sit down and drive along at no more than 40 km/hr.

[longboi]

Sector 2 and the GC bus network review will be the driving force between fixing those transfers.

[STB]

So, Sector II will be implemented after the GC Light Rail opens which will require a complete reworking of the bus network down there?  Which I assume would tie in the eastern and southern regions as well, given that train timetables will be changed quite substantially?

[longboi]

So, Sector II will be implemented after the GC Light Rail opens which will require a complete reworking of the bus network down there?  Which I assume would tie in the eastern and southern regions as well, given that train timetables will be changed quite substantially?

No, not necessarily.

There's still a way to do it prior to the GCLR opening.

[SurfRail]

So, Sector II will be implemented after the GC Light Rail opens which will require a complete reworking of the bus network down there?  Which I assume would tie in the eastern and southern regions as well, given that train timetables will be changed quite substantially?

Sector 2, GC, Redland, Moreton and Logan bus networks are meant to be happening same day in January.  Stuff is meant to be coming out very soon.

The Gold Coast will then have a further revision when trams start running, which will effectively be to just delete the Southport-Broadbeach section of the 2 remaining highway routes.  Only buses to Surfers then will be from Chevron Island / Isle of Capri, to and from the theme parks and between Seaworld and Broadbeach.  The GC changes are basically Stage 1 of 2 for about 6 months.

[STB]

So, Sector II will be implemented after the GC Light Rail opens which will require a complete reworking of the bus network down there?  Which I assume would tie in the eastern and southern regions as well, given that train timetables will be changed quite substantially?

Sector 2, GC, Redland, Moreton and Logan bus networks are meant to be happening same day in January.  Stuff is meant to be coming out very soon.

The Gold Coast will then have a further revision when trams start running, which will effectively be to just delete the Southport-Broadbeach section of the 2 remaining highway routes.  Only buses to Surfers then will be from Chevron Island / Isle of Capri, to and from the theme parks and between Seaworld and Broadbeach.  The GC changes are basically Stage 1 of 2 for about 6 months.

Awesome.  So the release of the Sector II timetables will happen sometime in November?  Makes sense, the timetable for the Springfield line should come out around that time, and it ties in with the plan of releasing the maps of the changes two months ahead of implementation ie: November release for January implementation.

[techblitz]

Translink

104 - Corinda to PA Hospital - Timetable changes

Some route 104 services are being removed due to low patronage. These include:
•services departing Corinda station at 5.18am, 5.48am and 6.48am
•services departing Yeerongpilly station at 5.14am, 5.45am and 6.15am
•the service departing the Princess Alexandra (PA) Hospital at 6.44pm.

BCC

Timetable change
Due to very low passenger numbers the inbound 5:18am, 5:48am and 6.48pm services from Corinda would no longer operate. The outbound 5:14am, 5:45am, 6:15am and 6.44pm services would also no longer operate.

[#Metro]

Looks like BT's hand will be forced eventually by the financial weight of the bus cost explosion.

This is somewhat encouraging. They will go for the politically easiest cuts first and then when those run out (and trust me, the way BCC/BT burns cash each year - Lord Mayor asked for 14% increase last time I recall) any cuts they make will soon be dwarfed by the big hole their bus operations, forcing them to make further cuts. The truncation and feederisation of the 117 at Wooloongabba I think is a test case for BT and we are likely to see further coverage services near-terminated in the future if I am on the money.

[kazzac]

SRail,james,Lapdog and anyone else dreaming of a MG diversion to bulimba.....forget it....why would they send a maroon glider to bulimba ferry (stop 33) and have another glider terminating/starting just across the river from bulimba ferry?? Why would after spending 5 million dollars upgrading the bulimba ferry would they just randomly divert the glider??? 

The ferry doesn't help you if you live on Riding Road.

The Wynnum Road corridor does not have any high-frequency services either, whereas the Eastern Busway has the 222 running along it and the 200 passing nearby.  Putting a decent bus service in there would fix the inner section at least.

or if you live between Riding RD and Thynne Rds or Junction Rd Morningside [between Comslie Hotel and Lytton rd]is only serviced by the hourly 232 and no services Sundays/public holidays

[techblitz]

Good points kazzac and im quite peeved that bulimba gets no proper access to c.hill on sundays...
Moving on...
Bulimba imo has 2 main sections
hawthorne rd inwards to the river and then east towards riding rd and thynne rd

Imo....with the blue glider across river and 5mill bulimba ferry upgrade...BT/BCC will not want one passenger lost from hawthorne rd inwards.They will want those passengers retained to ferry and would likely protect it at any cost.
They have lost enough ferry passengers over at west end/st lucia.

Onto the second section:
The big question mark for me is the counter-peak patronage for thynne/riding rd sections. At peak this section does well but as for counter-peak...
Kazzac your honest opinion on how good the counter-peak patronage is for this section? Whats the school patronage like? I rarely use the 230/235 but do see them pass through gabba/mater @ peak & check their loads.

Im not a fan of HF unless it can at least show some decent numbers at certain times of the day counter-peak. Virtually all current buz routes fit this criteria. <<<not expecting anyone to agree with this p.o.v

[HappyTrainGuy]

*coughcough*northsidehfroutes*coughcough*

[STB]

*coughcough*northsidehfroutes*coughcough*

You should get that cough looked to, could be BCCitas, pretty nasty stuff.