SEQ Bus Network Review

[techblitz]

htg since you like posting pics of buses...how about showing me some HCV or artics up around rbwh...would love to see some of those 

[HappyTrainGuy]

I'll get right on it! 

[longboi]

Need somewhere at RBWH to layover the additional buses first.

[HappyTrainGuy]

66's currently already wait underneath the busway waiting for the 330 to appear. Drove past tonight to see the driver beside the bus smoking. Drivers also wait on the approach to the busway stop. If they need more space just simply put some extra pavement down under the busway. There are already driver facilities such as toilets IIRC.

[Derwan]

I assume you mean doubling the frequency. In it's current form...bad idea. 8.5 pax. per bus is not efficient.

Post October 14, the MGLD could be shuffled to accommodate the transfer at Roma St to the Gabba. W'Gabba is the last real destination of any significance. Would also require possible shuffling of 385 to remove any conflicts at KGS.

No I mean halving the frequency.  We're going from 21 buses per hour down to 10. 

If timetables don't change, there will be two 66's that will no longer go to Woolloongabba in the 8-minute gap between the Maroon Glider and the 340, meaning that there will be around 30 ADDITIONAL people trying to board each 340 at Roma St.  They won't fit, there will be delays, people will get irate as they'll get turned away.

I caught an earlier 66 this morning (7:30am).  Still 16 passengers after Mater.

[HappyTrainGuy]

11am Inbound 335 at Chermside. ~ 21 people onboard. 333 inbound looked pretty packed. ~30 people onboard. 330 had the stupid non see through stickers so I don't know roughly how many were onboard.

[longboi]

I assume you mean doubling the frequency. In it's current form...bad idea. 8.5 pax. per bus is not efficient.

Post October 14, the MGLD could be shuffled to accommodate the transfer at Roma St to the Gabba. W'Gabba is the last real destination of any significance. Would also require possible shuffling of 385 to remove any conflicts at KGS.

No I mean halving the frequency.  We're going from 21 buses per hour down to 10. 

If timetables don't change, there will be two 66's that will no longer go to Woolloongabba in the 8-minute gap between the Maroon Glider and the 340, meaning that there will be around 30 ADDITIONAL people trying to board each 340 at Roma St.  They won't fit, there will be delays, people will get irate as they'll get turned away.

I caught an earlier 66 this morning (7:30am).  Still 16 passengers after Mater.

Wait and see game, I suppose.

Some of those people may be able to transfer at South Bank. Assuming your apocalyptic predictions ring true.

[longboi]

66's currently already wait underneath the busway waiting for the 330 to appear. Drove past tonight to see the driver beside the bus smoking. Drivers also wait on the approach to the busway stop. If they need more space just simply put some extra pavement down under the busway. There are already driver facilities such as toilets IIRC.

You're correct. 66s layover there. Not much space to fit two or more more artics or tag-axles there in peak.

Considering you're the one that always takes photos of buses lined up one behind the other, I find it interesting you're advocating for this. Especially both in and out of uni semester and school term.

[techblitz]

111 IMHO should be extended to the RBWH to add additional capacity to the innercity bus network. That's when you can start cutting and merging more routes. Delete the 340.

Sorry but you need to better backup your statement than just CUT 340  EXTEND 111

Its quite clear that BT have allocated mainly artics for the 111 buz route to handle peak loads between roma st & 8mp... and with the recent axing of 88 believe me....artics are NEEDED. Some of the artic 111`s are now getting full loads with standees right to the front of the bus after mater hill at 5pm peak.

If your scenario of an axed 340 and ext 111 was implemented....at peak the 111 would need 5 minute frequency at a minimum! Where was your suggestion? Sorry must have missed it 

[HappyTrainGuy]

Look through this thread, the observation thread and even the ekka thread. God knows how many times I have said that the 340 should be cut at Chermside I've tried to document and have been quite a lot on the 330/340 loadings but most of my observations have been while driving to and from work early morning/late night. Off peak the 340 could very very easily have the Chermside-City leg cut with passengers transferring to the 333 service. At night the 330 should also have the Chermside-City leg removed. I've been harping on about that for yonks. Because of the service overkill along Gympie Road during the day the 340 also has the problem of shadowing or leading other 333 and 370 services so what ever bus happens to be infront fills up while the bus behind follows with low patronage or no patronage. This is repeated between the 333+370 all too commonly.

Thanks for the photos, we need an evidence dossier!

I was on a 330 today, what a joke! Popped out of AirportLink and raced a 333 to Chermside side by side and both buses were 60% empty. This is a COMPLETE WASTE of cash!! There is little justification for a direct BUZ all the way to Bracken Ridge - the bus crosses over a rail line (could feed trains?) and go to Chermside. So many buses everywhere carrying air, half loads, quarter loads, no loads,  no wonder Quirk asked Emerson for 21% cash increase.

WASTE!!

Following up on what James is saying. Even the buz network on the northside suffers the same fate as the 100 but the wasted $$$ is even higher. Its just stupid that at night the 330/333/340 are all running at 15 minute frequencies when all those passengers can fit on to one bus. Counter peak 330/340 at night just doesn't have the trip generator factor for those inbound and some outbound services to warrant that type of frequency. Even getting the 330/340 to terminate at Chermside so passengers can interchange onto a 333 is still a small step at reducing costs (330/340 should really terminate at Chermside and run 30 mins Bracken Ridge/Carseldine to and from Chermside with passengers transfering onto a 333). There's always thursday night shopping but outside that they really struggle to attract patronage.

Personally I like the buz standard operating hours but the buz frequency after 9pm is what really needs to be addressed across the whole network.

Also from earlier in the week. 330 and 340 fighting for space at the Chermside interchange.

333, 335 bumper to bumper with 340 at the lights at Hamilton Road. 330, 370 following each other Chermside-airport link. Waste waste waste!

330, 333, 340 running bumper to bumper at the RBWH.

Oh... well that explains why.


Can they please merge the 370 into the 333 route for the short term to save a few bucks. There's just too much duplication. The 370 will shadow the 333 all the way to the busway because of the traffic on Gympie Road and its intersection setup.

RBWH-Valley also has the same problem with all the routes queuing up and following each other when they can all fit on to one bus. This is one of the reasons why I prefer the 333 to still be maintained as a route with the buz standard all day over it being merged into the 330 with the buz standard as the Chermside-Bracken Ridge section suffers come night fall or counter peak.

Buz that route right now. Sounds like patronage is going gangbusters! 

I try my best to post photos but alot of the time my observations are made while driving...

The 333 departed 5 minutes before the 330 at CCBS.


Going into KGSBS there weren't that many people onboard the 330.


The 340 caught up to the 330 in KGSBS. Because the 330 was blocking the 340 from using the stop everyone kept boarding the 330 while the 340 sat behind doing nothing waiting for the 330 to go. People were still running along the platform to get on and boarding (ticket purchases didn't help the cause) but the driver had enough and closed the doors until the final ticket purchase was made. About 50-55 people were onboard the 330 when it departed. There were only about 7-8 left on the platform when it left. 6 got on the 330 at RSBS vs 4 on the 340. ~20 were left onboard after the tafe stop. 340 shadowed the 330 all the way to the RBWHBS. 3 people got on the 330 at RBWHBS compared to no one boarding the 340.


As the 330 was using the flyover into the airport link you could already see the 340 had merged onto Lutyche Road and was waiting at the lights on Newmarket Road. After exiting the tunnel a bus was spotted in the distance. 333 was the number on the back being displayed. The 330 caught the 333 at the lights on Kitchener Road. 330 followed right up the ass of the 333 all the way to the Chermside interchange. 370 was charging in the distance behind the 330 but missed the light cycle. As I was leaving the parking lot the 340 missed the same light cycle as the 370 so it had to wait. From what I saw it didn't have many onboard. Driving back along Gympie road I passed a inbound 340 at the lights with 0 people onboard. Pulled over outside officeworks to see how many would be onboard the same 340 that was following the 330 in the city. Went by a couple minutes later with 3 people onboard (that I could visually see - stupid side adverts ).


Edit:: Also chucked in the Aspley-Chermside 500 post

Welcome to the BT Northside 500. This is the 6th round of the 2013 championship and todays race will be starting at Chermside Interchange and finishing at the Aspley Interchange.

All the buses are lined up on the grid waiting for the lights to go out.


And they're off!!!!


And they are in the pits. What's this? It looks like #330 accidently pitted at the wrong time. It has to wait in the fast lane until his team mate #335 leaves the teams pitbox. He's now blocking the pitlane. This is not going according to schedule and #330 is just losing tons of time. This is also effecting #598 who just sits idle in his pitbox until the #330 clears the fast lane.


Vrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmhsssssssss! #336 overtakes #340 going across Gympie Road but wait... what this... #340 is making a move for the lead!


And he's past!!! oh hang on #336 is making a comeback and yes.... yes its pulling off a fantastic pass just 150m down the road.


This is great racing! And now my phone is out of battery.




cr%p!

Your photo shows 3 buses end to end.  Big deal.

Yep. Indeed it does. I've also documented the issues with buses using the Chermside interchange aswell due to congestion of all the routes arriving at the same time then nothing until they all arrive at the same time again. It's even got to the point where buses just use what ever bay is available to drop off and pick up passengers.






And further along towards the windsor rail stop. Buses queuing up again (there was another bus behind me in this photo that's not included).

Extending the 111's to RBWH? They are already sitting idol at Roma Street anyway. They just now so happen to be sitting under the busway at the RBWH. It just adds a tad bit more capacity to the ICBW and also allows the network to be opened up a bit more to modifications and CFN routes. At night you could even merge the 333+111 cutting the 330/340 at Chermside.

It's all band aid solutions. There needs to be a proper and detailed review of the whole Brisbane network.

[Set in train]

Could cut the 340 if there were quarter hourly train services at Carseldine. Feeders to Carseldine or park n ride.

But 4 tph to Carseldine, this is Qld 

[HappyTrainGuy]

Actual feeder buses.... but this is Brisbane. Buses are our trains!

[Derwan]

Some of those people may be able to transfer at South Bank. Assuming your apocalyptic predictions ring true.

Apocalyptic predictions are a useful lobbying tool! 

[#Metro]

Request for Information


Does anyone have all the images/maps for the TL bus network review?

[James]

Request for Information


Does anyone have all the images/maps for the TL bus network review?

You can still access them - just use this URL:
http://mobile.translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-411.png

But instead of '411', type in the desired bus route eg. 100, P201 etc.

[#Metro]

Thanks this will be useful!

[aldonius]

I have it all backed up (not searchable, but all there AFAIK - PM me for the link), as does Bob I believe and probably a few others.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I tried to piece together and started mapping out the northside part of the review from what I could find to get a better idea of where black spots were/areas that could be improved. It doesn't include rockets etc. I gave up mapping after it was sh%t canned in favor of BCC undertaking the review. Red = Frequent. Aqua = Secondary. Black = Railway line.



Larger - http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/HappyTrainGuy/translinkreview_zps7da57bec.jpg

It's not perfect but you start to get an idea of what the network roughly would have been.

[SurfRail]

^ There are a few oddities which were caused by the frankly pretty bad raster-based mapping TransLink was forced to adopt (eg that wiggliness around Eagle Junction station on what was meant to replace the 320 was not meant to be there - it was just meant to be as per current route, but that's what the diagram showed).

For the most part it looks quite reasonable.  They would have been a lot better off doing what BCC did and getting Transit Graphics to produce regional maps with proper cartography.

You can see a lot more clearly where there were deficiencies which some of us planned to raise more formally before it all fell in a heap (eg routes being truncated in the Banyo/Nudgee area), but you can also see VERY clearly how it all comes together.

[Derwan]

Caught a Maroon Glider from Roma St this morning - on of the "alternatives" for when the 66 is re-routed.  It was overcrowded and basically couldn't accept one more person when it left - with people standing in the red zone.

[techblitz]

Caught a Maroon Glider from Roma St this morning - on of the "alternatives" for when the 66 is re-routed.  It was overcrowded and basically couldn't accept one more person when it left - with people standing in the red zone.

nice
but certain rbot members will always call this thing a `wasteglider`..so probably wasting your time 

A favour if possible derwan....can you keep an eye on 385 loads as well? Im assuming these have been heavily affected with MG and perhaps no longer need 5 minute frequency at peak.

[ozbob]

Techblitz, the Maroon Glider as originally proposed was a shambles and you know it.  It was only sustained pressure from TransLink and a few others that resulted in it being made useful with better routing.  Now it is doing some work as other routes have had resources redeployed.

[James]

nice
but certain rbot members will always call this thing a `wasteglider`..so probably wasting your time 

A favour if possible derwan....can you keep an eye on 385 loads as well? Im assuming these have been heavily affected with MG and perhaps no longer need 5 minute frequency at peak.

techblitz, you in fact just identified what MaroonGlider has done - eaten into P374, 375 and 385 loads. Nothing more. BCC's upcoming changes are just going to do that even more. It is still wasteful. I would like to see where those pax have come from and where they get off. Chances are Derwan could find it beneficial to just catch a bus down the road a bit to KGSBS, or connect to a train heading to South Bank.

[SurfRail]

nice
but certain rbot members will always call this thing a `wasteglider`..so probably wasting your time 

The principal issue I think most of us had with the original proposal was the silly routing via Grey Street which avoided the CBD, duplicated the busway through South Bank and didn't even allow for same-platform interchange.

I think most of us also don't object to it at the northern end, more the running on Logan Rd to serve a single stop before doing a hideous loop back onto the busway to Langlands Park.  Bulimba is a bigger and more useful catchment.

[techblitz]

nice
but certain rbot members will always call this thing a `wasteglider`..so probably wasting your time 

A favour if possible derwan....can you keep an eye on 385 loads as well? Im assuming these have been heavily affected with MG and perhaps no longer need 5 minute frequency at peak.

techblitz, you in fact just identified what MaroonGlider has done - eaten into P374, 375 and 385 loads. Nothing more. BCC's upcoming changes are just going to do that even more. It is still wasteful. I would like to see where those pax have come from and where they get off. Chances are Derwan could find it beneficial to just catch a bus down the road a bit to KGSBS, or connect to a train heading to South Bank.

well duhh

that's why I asked derwan if he could give some observations on new 385 loads. Before MG was implemented there was serious overcrowding issues on the 385...even at 5 minute frequency around 5pm....so in effect its done more than eat into the loads. Its actually given commuter a chance at a seat for once on those 5pmish routes.

[techblitz]

nice
but certain rbot members will always call this thing a `wasteglider`..so probably wasting your time 

The principal issue I think most of us had with the original proposal was the silly routing via Grey Street which avoided the CBD, duplicated the busway through South Bank and didn't even allow for same-platform interchange.

I think most of us also don't object to it at the northern end, more the running on Logan Rd to serve a single stop before doing a hideous loop back onto the busway to Langlands Park.  Bulimba is a bigger and more useful catchment.

SRail,james,Lapdog and anyone else dreaming of a MG diversion to bulimba.....forget it....why would they send a maroon glider to bulimba ferry (stop 33) and have another glider terminating/starting just across the river from bulimba ferry?? Why would after spending 5 million dollars upgrading the bulimba ferry would they just randomly divert the glider??? 

[James]

well duhh

that's why I asked derwan if he could give some observations on new 385 loads. Before MG was implemented there was serious overcrowding issues on the 385...even at 5 minute frequency around 5pm....so in effect its done more than eat into the loads. Its actually given commuter a chance at a seat for once on those 5pmish routes.

Then more 385 services should have been introduced in peak hours only, or loads should have been spread more evenly by routes like P374. We did not need a wasteful 24-hour bus route which carries air - especially out of peak hour.

And why do passengers travelling 2-3km in peak hour have a right to a seat on the bus? James sometimes travels to/from UQ during peak hour and heaven forbid, has to stand for the 6 minute trip. By this mentality, we should introduce a new bus route starting at the intersection of Swann/Clarance Rds going to UQ so people along Swann Rd/Hawken Drive can get a seat on the bus. It is stupid.

If buses were leaving 1-2 pax behind on some occasions - I do not see that as a huge issue given the high frequency.

SRail,james,Lapdog and anyone else dreaming of a MG diversion to bulimba.....forget it....why would they send a maroon glider to bulimba ferry (stop 33) and have another glider terminating/starting just across the river from bulimba ferry?? Why would after spending 5 million dollars upgrading the bulimba ferry would they just randomly divert the glider??? 

Because the current routing of the Glider has to be the single most stupid routing I have ever seen. And we are talking about BT here, which had created awful indirect routes with stupid diversions. The Bulimba Ferry terminal also does not cover the entire Bulimba/Balmoral area!!! Sending the MaroonGlider to Bulimba is about making the thing useful, by sending it through the high-density inner Wynnum Rd corridor and the high-demand Balmoral/Bulimba catchment area. It is hardly a "random" diversion, and the reason BCC won't do it is because of the Cr Shayne Sutton Effect.

I am going to honestly ask this, techblitz: Are you, in any way, affiliated with BCC or BT? Because that statement there is pretty much BCC's beliefs on a HF route to Bulimba.

[SurfRail]

SRail,james,Lapdog and anyone else dreaming of a MG diversion to bulimba.....forget it....why would they send a maroon glider to bulimba ferry (stop 33) and have another glider terminating/starting just across the river from bulimba ferry?? Why would after spending 5 million dollars upgrading the bulimba ferry would they just randomly divert the glider??? 

The ferry doesn't help you if you live on Riding Road.

The Wynnum Road corridor does not have any high-frequency services either, whereas the Eastern Busway has the 222 running along it and the 200 passing nearby.  Putting a decent bus service in there would fix the inner section at least.

[techblitz]

I suspect bulimba will see only minor improvements over the next couple of years such as a clock-face timetable upgrade / extension of hours for the 235 and 230.And perhaps some extra services to reduce overcrowding at peak.
The 220 is in desperate need of an extra service in between 4-5pm. Other than that...the hourly services are coping well.
As for 222/200...for all the air they carry on certain weeknights....they are complementing each other well at peak...both getting huge loads now. Mater hill around 5pm is the best place to see this.

@james.....not that I should even have to waste a single keystroke on you accusation but I spose I will do it. No I am not affiliated with them. I am a heavy public transport user getting around large parts of the network (train & bus)...that you no doubt dont.
Redcliffe to redbank,wynnum to ferny grove....greenbank to Pinkenba.
Using all major busways and corridors @ peak and counterpeak I speak to a lot of bus drivers...not only BT but privates as well.

Obviously you have become offended by my little analysis of why BCC wont implement a glider to bulimba. You have your clear-cut opinion of `political stripe` and I have mine "ferry cannibalisation".
Surely you realise that not everyone on here plays follow the leader and will speak their point of view if need be? Its a forum 

[ozbob]

Hourly services are coping ...      no one can use it reliably  ..   bizarre for inner Brisbane ...  hold on, this is Queensland ..

Low frequency services do not encourage passenger growth ... 

[ozbob]

@James  the anti-Bulimba stance by BCC and therefore BT is more to do with polyticks than reality mate ...

Sad but true.  BCC is a disgrace on many things, just another ...

[techblitz]

Hourly services are coping ...      no one can use it reliably  ..   bizarre for inner Brisbane ...  hold on, this is Queensland ..

Low frequency services do not encourage passenger growth ... 

ozbob not everything should be based around high frequency...it goes a long way YES and TL have the figures but there are other factors at play such as the speed and directness of the route. The protests down at inala were CLEAR evidence of this... poly-ticks as well?...this was the voice of both councellors & residents protesting to translinks ultimatum that if they want continued high frequency services to the city then they must transfer to rail.

Heres another example of people power for memories that need refreshing 




Southern Star 25/09

[ozbob]

But look at what subsequently happened ... lol  shafted ...

[ozbob]

Techblitz et al. It is time Brisbane and its citizens grew up.  We want a decent, reasonable cost, connected public transport and then transfers will be needed.  My few days in Melbourne last week again reminded me of that.

Personally I am sick and tired of selfish bleats that ignore the wider community need.  If you don't agree with that all, tough.

Suggest you find somewhere else to peddle your narrow self frameworks of reference.

Have a great day!

[ozbob]

And I will add.  I have little doubt that what the TransLink bus review was proposing in essence will eventually implemented and I expect it to be within two years.

So put that in your pipe folks and smoke it!

[ozbob]

More of the same is just going to continue the patronage slide, the cost of system will continue to escalate disproportionally, and there will be no fare relief.

What TransLink was trying to do, and as instructed by the Newman Government was to reverse the slide. 

There has been a set back, but basic economics, and a failing transport network will mean that the reforms in principle proposed will be done.  Just not right now.  You will see from here progressive change as more and more changes are implemented. 

The Government has not abandoned the need for change, they are just going to do it in a more incremental manner.

[techblitz]

A harsh lesson was learnt in implementing this large scale review. Lesson: Make sure you get better support from councellors or they will nitpick it to the rafters in parliament. So much that there is only one inevitable outcome....
There have been large scale reviews before (jim soorley 1995)
but im sure that review wasn't voted down by almost ALL councellors...The mess that occurred on march 12 must never be repeated. Small changes and extensive consultation... council by council over time.... would certainly reduce the risk of this happening again.

[ozbob]

A harsh lesson was learnt in implementing this large scale review. Lesson: Make sure you get better support from councellors or they will nitpick it to the rafters in parliament. So much that there is only one inevitable outcome....
There have been large scale reviews before (jim soorley 1995)
but im sure that review wasn't voted down by almost ALL councellors...The mess that occurred on march 12 must never be repeated. Small changes and extensive consultation... council by council over time.... would certainly reduce the risk of this happening again.

^ yes agree ...

[Derwan]

A favour if possible derwan....can you keep an eye on 385 loads as well? Im assuming these have been heavily affected with MG and perhaps no longer need 5 minute frequency at peak.

Managed to spot a 385 at Roma St this morning... probably no more than about 15 people on board.  (That's about the same as a typical 66 as it arrives at Woolloongabba.)

"Only" 10 on board the 66 that I caught this morning when it reached Woolloongabba.

[techblitz]

South East Advertiser 25.09



City South News 26.09