SEQ Bus Network Review

[ozbob]

Good question. Later to day I hope to attend the information session at Redbank Plaza ..

--> http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review-2013/ipswich

[techblitz]

  the the new 522...which will provide not only crosstown services between springfield and Ipswich lines but increased frequency to save people the walk between Goodna station and st ives shopping center (around crazy clarks/centrelink etc)

[ozbob]

Good question. Later to day I hope to attend the information session at Redbank Plaza ..

--> http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review-2013/ipswich

Called into Redbank Plaza.  Steady stream of punters discussing the bus changes with TL reps.

Picked up this flyer ..

[Set in train]

Flyer is interesting, 6 mins to travel the distance between Springfield and Richlands. No top speeds along this stretch when you compare Beenleigh - Ormeau, much longer at 12.7km is timetabled for 8 mins and that's with fat in the timetable.

Mentions existing routes, but nothing about any new feeders to fill the many holes within the catchment area.

[petey3801]

Flyer is interesting, 6 mins to travel the distance between Springfield and Richlands. No top speeds along this stretch when you compare Beenleigh - Ormeau, much longer at 12.7km is timetabled for 8 mins and that's with fat in the timetable.

Mentions existing routes, but nothing about any new feeders to fill the many holes within the catchment area.

I imagine it's been timetabled such that EMU/SMU200/SMU220 stock won't lose time on the fast sections. It's a pity, really, as they could quite easily make up said time with the amount of extra time in the table on the Richlands to City leg.

[STB]

Just received an email stating that the next lot of BT changes are happening on the 14th October.

EDIT: They have been uploaded to the TransLink website - http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review-2013/brisbane/changes#117

[techblitz]

Just received an email stating that the next lot of BT changes are happening on the 14th October.

EDIT: They have been uploaded to the TransLink website - http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review-2013/brisbane/changes#117

I think we can call this the " big one" 

[nathandavid88]

At a quick glance, it looks like there's a fair bit of QSBS stop shuffling happening with this one. Hopefully it improves legibility, and doesn't throw it all out the window...

[ozbob]

Some improvements eg. 66 + 109, stop changes etc. but the majority is just straight service frequency cuts ..

You make your bed Brisbane, guess you get to lie in it ...

[Derwan]

Some improvements eg. 66 + 109, stop changes etc. but the majority is just straight service frequency cuts ..

It might be considered an improvement on paper but I catch a bus between Roma St and Woolloongabba every day.  There are 3 routes that service this directly - 66, 340 and the maroon glider.  The alternative suggested is the 340, which is only half as frequent as the 66.  Indeed, in an hour, the number of buses directly between these 2 stations goes from 21 to 10.

Both the 340 and maroon glider are heavily patronaged by the time they arrive at Roma St and it's a struggle to get on board.  And then there's the shuffle as many passengers alight at King George Square.

Every time I've caught a 66 in the morning, there have been between 15 and 30 passengers travelling to Woolloongabba.  With all of these passengers attempting to board a 340 or Maroon Glider, people will either be left behind and/or there will be significant delays.

I agree though that there are significantly fewer passengers during the off-peak period and the 340/Maroon Glider would be fine.  We just need something to be done about peak services.

[ozbob]

They have the data.  The 340 is running every 10 minutes in the peaks, with MGLD every other 5 minutes.  Combining the 66 and the 109 is a major network improvement though.  Monitor post October 14 and if problems we can highlight it.

[ozbob]

Another FlexiLink bites the dust.

Chermside FlexiLink (Black & White Cabs)  RIP ...

Not sure if anyone really knew much about this ...

[James]

It might be considered an improvement on paper but I catch a bus between Roma St and Woolloongabba every day.  There are 3 routes that service this directly - 66, 340 and the maroon glider.  The alternative suggested is the 340, which is only half as frequent as the 66.  Indeed, in an hour, the number of buses directly between these 2 stations goes from 21 to 10.

A 3 minute average wait turns into a 5 minute average wait. MGLD already ships around air to no end right through to Roma Street and beyond. 340 may get busy, but there is nothing wrong with standing between KGSBS and RSBS. Also Derwan, with Sector II coming, it may so be that you can board a Shorncliffe train at South Bank rather than Roma Street.

66 + 109 is a big plus. It will make getting from the northside to UQ a lot easier.

On the note of UQ, post-review James will have 5 bus routes going within 400m of his house to UQ - the 411, 414, 427, 428 and 432 (peak only). Unfortunately, due to the express pattern farce which exists along Swann Road, I will still have to wait up to 30 minutes for a bus off-peak. 

[cartoonbirdhaus]

I think we can call this the " big one"

Brings to mind that scene in Meet the Feebles: "It's The Big One, Harry!"



Soooo, they're stopping the MoronGlider at Bardon alright: but near Tooth Ave around the corner, instead of using the same stop as the 385. Not only is the "interchange" disjointed... try crossing the road near the new Glider stop. 

[HappyTrainGuy]

I'd still like to see a proper interchange made out of the two Southbank stops. Just a simple bridge linking the two rather than the danky unlit underpass.

[nathandavid88]

Just improving the lighting is all that's needed really. Building an bridge between rail and busway won't save any time in crossing between the two – you'd have to walk up stairs/get the elevator up from the train platform, walk across the bridge and then take stairs/lift down to the bus platform. Currently you have to walk down the stairs/ramp/get the elevator down, cross the road and then take the stairs/elevator up to the bus platform. Much of a muchness IMO.

[aldonius]

Yep. Needs lighting on the underside of the busway, and perhaps a raised zebra crossing.

[minbrisbane]

I think definitely a raised (speed bump) ped crossing with improved lighting and signage.

[longboi]

Just received an email stating that the next lot of BT changes are happening on the 14th October.

EDIT: They have been uploaded to the TransLink website - http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review-2013/brisbane/changes#117

I think we can call this the " big one" 

Coincides with the opening of Trade Coast Depot.

[STB]

I suppose it is safe to say that the eastern and southern changes will coincide with the sector II timetables?  And the Gold Coast changes will happen when the GC light rail opens?

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

17th September 2013

Re: Mates or community?

Greetings,

The second stage of Brisbane bus network changes occur from the 14th October 2013. Details --> http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review-2013/brisbane

The failure of the bus review process now means that the changes for Brisbane are essentially service frequency cuts in the main.  A major gain though is the merger of the 66 and 109 bus routes, something we suggested as obvious in July 2009. See -->  29 July 2009: SEQ: Where's our Buz?  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2538.0

It takes years to get any meaningful changes in SEQ with respect to public transport hey?

A failing fare system, now supported by further service cuts is the consequence of not moving forward with the TransLink bus review.  It is very clear that public transport network planning needs to be removed from Brisbane City Council.  They are not a team player.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

16th September 2013

Re: Mates or community?

Greetings,

More concern with the failing leadership in the public transport portfolio.

More evidence of the fare failure ...

Couriermail --> Commuter passenger numbers plummet despite free trip incentives

Quote

    DISHING out free trips to commuters cost taxpayers more than $9 million last year but the costly initiative still failed to boost patronage.

    New figures provided to The Courier-Mail by Transport and Main Roads, show just 12 of the 145 train stations in southeast Queensland recorded an increase in passengers in the last year.

    Numbers at Central Station were down by 724,000 compared with the previous year, and there were 177,000 fewer passengers at Roma St.

    Most suburban stations also posted decreases with the exception of Bowen Hills, Park Rd, South Brisbane, Chelmer and Richlands and the domestic and international airport stations.

    Patronage on trains has been on the slide since 2010, largely due to consecutive 15 per cent fare hikes.

    The Newman Government reduced the increase to 7.5 per cent this year but has so far been unable to reverse the decline in passengers.

    Figures released by Transport Minister Scott Emerson show the "nine-journeys then free" initiative introduced last year was costing an average of nearly $500,000 a week.

    But Mr Emerson's spokesman said the total cost was within budget forecasts, of between $8.9 and $9.1 million.

    Robert Dow from commuter advocacy group Back on Track said the initiative was a "drain on revenue" that had failed to attract more people to public transport ..

The costing ^ is a bit of a con too.  A trip to work Friday morning costs $2 fares plus $6 subsidy.  The 'free trip home' costs $2 (lost revenue) but no subsidy ...  LOL.

What a shambles it all is ...  real costs are around $36 million dollars and one of the reasons why public transport is a basket case.

Enjoy the chaos!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

14th September 2013

Mates or community?

Greetings,

In January 2013 the Premier indicated in his six month action plan that a new fare structure for the public transport in SEQ would be done.

We are still waiting.  The Government is just continuing on with the failed fare structure commenced in 2010, with a couple of minor modifications.

Increasing fares by another 7.5% does not make already unaffordable fares any more affordable.  Despite the nonsensical spin trotted out.  7.5% is many times increases in pensions, salary and wages.

There was an interesting revelation in Parliament this week --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=10048.msg131375#msg131375

It is time TransLink, the Department of Transport and Main Roads, the Minister for Transport and Main Roads, the Assistant Minister for Public Transport and the Premier acted to sort out the failed fare path.

It makes no sense - economic or moral, to force more and more people off public transport onto the ever worsening maelstrom of road congestion, death and injury.

Can the real leader please stand up?

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[Derwan]

They have the data.  The 340 is running every 10 minutes in the peaks, with MGLD every other 5 minutes.  Combining the 66 and the 109 is a major network improvement though.  Monitor post October 14 and if problems we can highlight it.

Under the current timetables, the Maroon Glider arrives 2 minutes after the 340, creating an 8-minute gap.  That's a long time for the hundreds of people alighting from trains.  (Trust me, when there's a gap of 5 minutes between services during the morning peak, platform 2 at Roma St gets packed!)

Rather than having a simple, easy process and service to get us from point A to point B, we're now having to check timetables and alternatives, depending on when our train is supposed to arrive.  Maybe there's a train scheduled before a bus that can take us to South Bank.  But what if my train is running late?

Perhaps with the extra stop, they'll reschedule the Maroon Glider and balance out the services a bit.  We can only hope.  We're stuck with it now.  All we can do (as Bob mentioned) is highlight any concerns post implementation.

[longboi]

They have the data.  The 340 is running every 10 minutes in the peaks, with MGLD every other 5 minutes.  Combining the 66 and the 109 is a major network improvement though.  Monitor post October 14 and if problems we can highlight it.

Under the current timetables, the Maroon Glider arrives 2 minutes after the 340, creating an 8-minute gap.  That's a long time for the hundreds of people alighting from trains.  (Trust me, when there's a gap of 5 minutes between services during the morning peak, platform 2 at Roma St gets packed!)

Rather than having a simple, easy process and service to get us from point A to point B, we're now having to check timetables and alternatives, depending on when our train is supposed to arrive.  Maybe there's a train scheduled before a bus that can take us to South Bank.  But what if my train is running late?

Perhaps with the extra stop, they'll reschedule the Maroon Glider and balance out the services a bit.  We can only hope.  We're stuck with it now.  All we can do (as Bob mentioned) is highlight any concerns post implementation.

Who is us? 66, even during peak runs close to empty upon leaving South Bank.

8 mins isn't that bad, either.

[HappyTrainGuy]

The 340 shouldn't even be anywhere near the city for starters!

[Gazza]

Rather than having a simple, easy process and service to get us from point A to point B, we're now having to check timetables and alternatives, depending on when our train is supposed to arrive.

I find the notion that you'd check BUZ timetables in peak hour when making connections a bit ridiculous...On the inner city busway segments buses frequently arrive out of sequence and particularly with long routes like the 340 can be running late anyway.
Just TUAG and get the first bus that comes.

[Derwan]

Who is us? 66, even during peak runs close to empty upon leaving South Bank.

8 mins isn't that bad, either.

You obviously don't catch this bus nearly every day like I do, along with many others who work in Woolloongabba.

8 minutes is bad. As I pointed out, there are many people getting off trains who change to buses. This will cause significant issues with the 340, the service after the 8 minute gap, which is often at capacity and can only accept passengers because of people getting off at Roma St.

If you want efficiency, just halve the number of buses on every route. This won't help people out but it'll stop congestion. This is what we're talking about here... halving the frequency on this route to improve efficiency.

[Derwan]

I find the notion that you'd check BUZ timetables in peak hour when making connections a bit ridiculous...On the inner city busway segments buses frequently arrive out of sequence and particularly with long routes like the 340 can be running late anyway.
Just TUAG and get the first bus that comes.

Good point Gazza. Turn up and the bus is supposed to arrive in 8 minutes, but this one is running late and it's 12 minutes before you get a bus, making you even later for work!

[Derwan]

even during peak runs close to empty upon leaving South Bank.

17 on board this morning between Mater and Woolloongabba.  This is fairly average.

One or two may have boarded after Roma St, so let's say 15 people caught the bus from Roma St to Woolloongabba.  With two 66's in 8 minutes, that's 30 people that will need to attempt to squeeze on the next 340 from October 14.

[James]

Good point Gazza. Turn up and the bus is supposed to arrive in 8 minutes, but this one is running late and it's 12 minutes before you get a bus, making you even later for work!

Or, the previous bus runs late and in fact you get a bus in three minutes.

I have looked at the timetable and I agree, MGLD and 340 arriving more or less both at once and then nothing for 10 minutes is a pretty poor performance (better than Hawken Drive, which has the 411 and 428 leaving at the same time then nothing for half an hour in the off-peak). But that in itself warrants a timetable re-shuffile, not retaining the current not-so-useful 66 routing.

Alternatively, pax can just look at alternative routings. Go to Park Rd and change to 29, go to South Bank and change to 100/200/myriad of useless coverage routes that go from there to Wooloongabba, go to Central and change to an Ann/Adelaide St bus. Walk from Mater Hill even. It is not the most convenient, but it is not the end of the world.

[techblitz]

Derwan what are the loads on the 340 like at pm peak at the moment? Standees?
Just wondering if a lot of pax are taking advantage of the quick trip across CCB.

[Derwan]

Derwan what are the loads on the 340 like at pm peak at the moment? Standees?
Just wondering if a lot of pax are taking advantage of the quick trip across CCB.

Everyone here loves it when they catch a 340 because of the quicker trip (albeit around 2 minutes), but they're not willing to wait several minutes if a 66 or Maroon Glider turns up first.  One advantage of the 340 in the afternoon is that it starts at Woolloongabba so you could probably deliberately catch it if you wanted to.  I'm not sure how many actually do this.

Loading between Woolloongabba and King George Square is minimal.  (This will probably change on 14 October.)  There is usually a line up at KGS and then we have to do a reshuffle when we get to Roma St.

The couple of times I've caught the 340 beyond Roma St, there are sections where it's standing room only.  Morning seems worse and one of the few times the driver had to turn passengers away.  Enough passengers got off at Roma St to allow others to get on though.

[HappyTrainGuy]

The reason for the line up at KGSBS is because the 330/333/340 all use the same stop with the majority of those in it for the long haul mixed with those in it for the short haul. It doesn't matter what bus you get on as they have a similar transit time to Chermside. 330 is faster to Chermside but it also has the problem of accessing Bowen Bridge Road just to get into the Airport link tunnel which can easily delay it. The whole series of random routes going everywhere also makes this situation worse as everyone gets into the pattern that I'll only catch bus a, b and c but ignore routes x, y and z. 111 IMHO should be extended to the RBWH to add additional capacity to the innercity bus network. That's when you can start cutting and merging more routes. Delete the 340. Merge the 330/333 into the same stopping pattern to get rid of duplication and people preferring particular routes. Better stop assignments. Better signage and large maps. Highlighting the CFN/higher capacity services/routes etc etc etc etc. Alot of which has not been addressed by the BT/BCC review.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Speaking about the waste that should be merged along the Gympie Road corridor. 333, 330 and 370 all primed up and waiting to be first into the Chermside interchange!

[kazzac]

so there will be more changes from October 14th,but no mention of a 230 BUZ service or Bulimba Glider  

[James]

The reason for the line up at KGSBS is because the 330/333/340 all use the same stop with the majority of those in it for the long haul mixed with those in it for the short haul. It doesn't matter what bus you get on as they have a similar transit time to Chermside. 330 is faster to Chermside but it also has the problem of accessing Bowen Bridge Road just to get into the Airport link tunnel which can easily delay it. The whole series of random routes going everywhere also makes this situation worse as everyone gets into the pattern that I'll only catch bus a, b and c but ignore routes x, y and z. 111 IMHO should be extended to the RBWH to add additional capacity to the innercity bus network. That's when you can start cutting and merging more routes. Delete the 340. Merge the 330/333 into the same stopping pattern to get rid of duplication and people preferring particular routes. Better stop assignments. Better signage and large maps. Highlighting the CFN/higher capacity services/routes etc etc etc etc. Alot of which has not been addressed by the BT/BCC review.

111 going to RBWH full-time ignores the fact that demand up there (hint: its due to a certain university called 'QUT') is very seasonal. It is one reason I opposed sending all the Indooroopilly routes to UQ full-time.

For capacity relating to the INB, UniGlider (that is, the new 66) should just be sent mental. A bus every 3 minutes seems appropriate. Maybe even more often. For off-peak frequency, I think the buses from Chermside should be enough along most of the route. Delete the 333 and route the 330 via the 333/340 route RBWH - Chermside and make buses come every 7.5 minutes and Chermside - CBD and there will be a lot of air removed without even trying - that's ignoring a possible UniGlider going every 10 minutes interpeak/15 minutes evenings and weekends.

The issue is, getting rid of the 333 isn't even a horrible 'getting rid of services' move. It doesn't even break BCC's mantra. It is a simple common-sense idea. Same with 222. There is no reason why the 'trunk' routes to the major shopping centres cannot continue to a zone 3-5 destination (a la 444).

[HappyTrainGuy]

It might be seasonal but its only 1 route. It could pay off big time if the network was also simplified. Such as making the Chermside-RBWH corridor 1 route. Cutting down on City/Valley-RBWH routes etc.

[longboi]

Who is us? 66, even during peak runs close to empty upon leaving South Bank.

8 mins isn't that bad, either.

You obviously don't catch this bus nearly every day like I do, along with many others who work in Woolloongabba.

8 minutes is bad. As I pointed out, there are many people getting off trains who change to buses. This will cause significant issues with the 340, the service after the 8 minute gap, which is often at capacity and can only accept passengers because of people getting off at Roma St.

If you want efficiency, just halve the number of buses on every route. This won't help people out but it'll stop congestion. This is what we're talking about here... halving the frequency on this route to improve efficiency.

I assume you mean doubling the frequency. In it's current form...bad idea. 8.5 pax. per bus is not efficient.

Post October 14, the MGLD could be shuffled to accommodate the transfer at Roma St to the Gabba. W'Gabba is the last real destination of any significance. Would also require possible shuffling of 385 to remove any conflicts at KGS.

[#Metro]

Speaking about the waste that should be merged along the Gympie Road corridor. 333, 330 and 370 all primed up and waiting to be first into the Chermside interchange!

Hmm. Can we have a photo section just for BT waste? It would be nice to have all the photos in one spot.

How would you simplify the Gympie Road Corridor? I would perhaps suggest terminate the 370 at RBWH busway, and extend the southern section to Cultural Centre. The 330/333 would remain. Are there other possibilities?

[James]

It might be seasonal but its only 1 route. It could pay off big time if the network was also simplified. Such as making the Chermside-RBWH corridor 1 route. Cutting down on City/Valley-RBWH routes etc.

Still complicates the network unnecessarily in my personal opinion. Capacity in the UQ section will still be required, and I suspect with UniGlider will become more popular as it is more connected with the northside network (a good thing, 412 gets hammered at Toowong - there are standing loads at 4:30pm on a Sunday afternoon sometimes leaving Toowong). Much better off just running more 66s, and then come Uni breaks just slashing the capacity of one route - not confusing people with the 111 showing '111 RBWH' during Uni semesters and '111 City' at all other times.

Of course ideally we'd like to cut a bucketload of air parcel bus routes and duplication, but we are faced with BCC. Axing the 333 and 330 via Northern Busway are probably the only gains we can really make on the northside.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I'd run it to RBWH all year round regardless of what uni/TAFE semester it might be.