SEQ Bus Network Review

[#Metro]

The 161 actually gets some very good patronage past Garden City in the peak direction. I caught the 3:30pm service leaving Queen Street yesterday, and the bus turned up at Upper Mount Gravatt busway with only around 5-6 people on board. The bus filled up with - surprise surprise - lots of people transferring from other services. (All lies, according to Lord Mayor Quirk). Most seats were filled when we left the busway, with half of the bus getting out at the Brisbane Holiday Village (I think this is where most of the patronage comes from on this route). On the city-bound trip though, it was no surprise that I was the only passenger who was doing the through trip. About four passengers got on at Upper Mount Gravatt, but there's no real point in counting that given none of them were waiting for the 161 exclusively.

That would make sense. The holiday park looks quite big and when you're on holiday you're less likely to have your car with you unless you drove up or took a rental car. All 161 services should be terminated at Upper Mt Gravatt Busway station on a permanent basis. There is plenty of space on other services and the TransLink proposal even had rail connections on it. My suggestion would be to add a 'new' replacement service and then withdraw the 161 after one to three months.

172 had light loads as well. It was more like a roller coaster ride the way it twists and turns, half the excitement was guessing which street we're going to turn down next. The route is also slow especially on the inner section - it took us about 15 minutes just to get to Greenslopes Hospital from Wooloongabba. The bus jam (at 2:30pm) at Mater Hill and Cultural Centre didn't help either. The driver even told one passenger at Greenslopes to wait for the 175 because it was quicker. The bus got decently loaded by school kids from Cavendish Road State High, but aside from the school kids there were no more than seven passengers on board at any one time.

I went past Greenslopes busway yesterday, saw the GPH shuttle. It probably carried more pax than the 172. No reason why there can't be a feeder extended from Greenslopes busway, there is even a bus turnaround next to the busway for this purpose.

Maroon Glider carries good patronage between Ashgrove and Cultural Centre. Once past about Cultural Centre, the service was carrying air. I was only one of a few people on board, and this was at Wooloongabba. 379 was the only route which really had half-decent patronage.

Someone needs to take a photo of the empty interior going past woolooongabba. An air parcel that is not justified and should be either cut or sent to Bulimba.

[Gazza]

Haha those bus wraps prevent you taking photos from the outside.

[kazzac]

I sometimes see an inbound 172  air parcel service on Logan Road , between 3.30 -3.40pm  around Holland Park/Green slopes and from what I can see no more than 4-5 pax on board.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Haha those bus wraps prevent you taking photos from the outside.

And outside trying to photograph buses that your following

[techblitz]

around midday today I saw at least 30 students etc board from qe2 hospital on the 135 and the 120 inbounds
absolute goldmine for BT this stop. The Capalaba bound services would also get a share of the pie as well.
Took a trip on the 544 (forestdale-grand plaza) for first time. About 6 pax on board. Handy little loop service which is planned for removal.

[SurfRail]

around midday today I saw at least 30 students etc board from qe2 hospital on the 135 and the 120 inbounds
absolute goldmine for BT this stop. The Capalaba bound services would also get a share of the pie as well.
Took a trip on the 544 (forestdale-grand plaza) for first time. About 6 pax on board. Handy little loop service which is planned for removal.

544 is being merged with the 534 which should actually be better.

[techblitz]

around midday today I saw at least 30 students etc board from qe2 hospital on the 135 and the 120 inbounds
absolute goldmine for BT this stop. The Capalaba bound services would also get a share of the pie as well.
Took a trip on the 544 (forestdale-grand plaza) for first time. About 6 pax on board. Handy little loop service which is planned for removal.

I
544 is being merged with the 534 which should actually be better.

Cheers. Im hoping it still serves conifer st! 546 is gettin more services 

For redcliffe area wil be intersting to see where they send thier newest loop addition for newport. New shopping center being built near kligner and ashmole rds. Loop services are becoming quite popular up in moreton bay 

[newbris]

....379 was the only route which really had half-decent patronage.....

Which brings us to quirks only upcoming 'improvement' to the inner west high density area....cut the 379/380/381 to hourly services off peak  :conf. ...in contrast to the translink review resulting in 2 GoNetwork frequent buses running along the 'very high value/very high use' stretch between the cbd and ashgrove through red hill.

[SurfRail]

Cheers. Im hoping it still serves conifer st!

I think the only bit actually being ditched is the loop right at the end of ther 544 around Paradise Rd/Forestdale Dr, because the patronage is next to nothing.  The 534 is just going to deviate off Johnson Rd and go past where people actually live to do the same job ang give people a bus to Forest Lake as well.

(Incidentally this little pocket is right across the proposed HSR alignment, although I suspect they have little to worry about.)

[James]

I went on urban safari again today, and really it was just a survey of the current waste network. I think all you need to do to find waste in the bus network is go to Wooloongabba bus station. All the great waste gems of the east and the south pass through there (aside from the 161). It's one thing to look at numbers on a page, but its another thing all together to get out on the network and see air parcels just going out everywhere.

I was waiting there and came across:
- A Stones Corner-bound WasteGlider carrying no passengers (last one got off at Wooloongabba)
- An Ashgrove-bound WasteGlider which arrived with no passengers and left with no more than two
- An outbound 115 carrying ONE passenger (who got on at Wooloongabba)
I then boarded a 212 to Carindale. For most of the route, it carried no more than 7 passengers, with only one passenger boarding and one passenger getting off along the Oateson Skyline Drive section of the route (the section which was to be cut under the bus review).

I think what followed had to be a highlight in network waste. An inbound 215, followed one minute after by a Wynnum-bound 225. When BCC does that it really isn't a surprise that the 225 carries nothing but air both ways. 215 had better patronage departing Carindale, but a lot of passengers got off in the Belmont area. The diversion it makes is awful though. Traffic calming down those streets too!  Transferred to a 232 at Cannon Hill - what a mess of a route! The eastern suburbs equivalent of the 172. Passed right beside Cannon Hill train station where as always, a train had just departed. The route had low patronage for most of the way - aside from the final stretch along Wynnum Road when it takes a fast route into the city, and where it picked up the majority of its passengers.

[kazzac]

The 232 'safari' you mean.I have seen I/b or o/b 232 services when I am on my afternoon walk  around my neighbourhood between 4.30 and 5pm almost empty!>

[kazzac]

Took a ride on 369. 375 immediately in front vacuuming up all the passengers. 

i have noticed a similar occourance, an I/b 124 service travelling along Beaudesart RD Moorooka about3.30pm imediately followed by an inbound 125 service.Used to notice that too when ever I caught that inbound 124 service about 3.30 pm after work back when I didn't have a car last year.these 2 services keep overtaking each other!

[Set in train]

Remember this gem of an idea for the flagship Redland City route, the 250:

The peak service for this route will continue to operate Redland Bay to City via Victoria Point, Cleveland, Capalaba and Carindale.

Off-peak services will now travel Redland Bay to Carindale via Victoria Point, Cleveland and Capalaba. Passengers wishing to travel off-peak to the CBD can transfer at Carindale on to several high frequency services.

So I tried it this afternoon. Eastbound in the peak hour traffic from Buranda: 27 minutes.

Westbound back into town on a 270, then a 222: 41 minutes.

Yes, a 14 min difference. 51.85% longer. The 222 stopped at every stop.

I don't care if TL say they will have buses closer for the forced disembarking of Redland passengers, the 250 run is fixed day and night at 100mins duration. It will always arrive earlier or later than whenever TL hope more times than not.

As it was, the 222 was 2 - 3 mins late arriving at the bus stop to start the journey.

Forget that, people will not bother with a journey that is 51.85% longer.

[#Metro]

Route 250 operates on 30 minute cycles
If the money used to cut the route short were spent on doubling the frequency, there would be little loss of time and for passengers going to Carindale a halving of wait time.

[somebody]

Remember this gem of an idea for the flagship Redland City route, the 250:

The peak service for this route will continue to operate Redland Bay to City via Victoria Point, Cleveland, Capalaba and Carindale.

Off-peak services will now travel Redland Bay to Carindale via Victoria Point, Cleveland and Capalaba. Passengers wishing to travel off-peak to the CBD can transfer at Carindale on to several high frequency services.

So I tried it this afternoon. Eastbound in the peak hour traffic from Buranda: 27 minutes.

Westbound back into town on a 270, then a 222: 41 minutes.

Yes, a 14 min difference. 51.85% longer. The 222 stopped at every stop.

I don't care if TL say they will have buses closer for the forced disembarking of Redland passengers, the 250 run is fixed day and night at 100mins duration. It will always arrive earlier or later than whenever TL hope more times than not.

As it was, the 222 was 2 - 3 mins late arriving at the bus stop to start the journey.

Forget that, people will not bother with a journey that is 51.85% longer.

It could be worse - there could be the one stopping pattern that a number of people seek along the major corridors like Old Cleveland Rd.  Then watch the bus grind along.

[James]

So I tried it this afternoon. Eastbound in the peak hour traffic from Buranda: 27 minutes.

Westbound back into town on a 270, then a 222: 41 minutes.

Yes, a 14 min difference. 51.85% longer. The 222 stopped at every stop.

I don't care if TL say they will have buses closer for the forced disembarking of Redland passengers, the 250 run is fixed day and night at 100mins duration. It will always arrive earlier or later than whenever TL hope more times than not.

As it was, the 222 was 2 - 3 mins late arriving at the bus stop to start the journey.

Forget that, people will not bother with a journey that is 51.85% longer.

Chances are you just had an unlucky run into the CBD. I've caught a 222 before from KGSBS to Carindale at 10am, and it hardly stopped anywhere. In fact, according to the timetable, the 200 is one minute faster between Carindale and Mater Hill heading inbound at 10:30am on a weekday morning compared to the 250. Just because a route is "express" doesn't mean it automatically saves everybody 5-10 minutes on their journey.

If patronage justifies it, there could be reason to run an all-day BUZ-standard express bus from Carindale to Buranda non-stop then through the busway to QSBS/KGSBS (CCB running is an option). But that's another discussion once a go-network like proposal is actually implemented and patronage can be shown to justify such a route. Right now we have a multitude of buses all running to the CBD along Old Cleveland Road with three different stopping patterns (200/222, 204, 250) going from four different stop locations in the CBD (KGSBS/QSBS/Elizabeth/Adelaide Street), with Carindale getting a frequency of 8bph from the CBD at 10:30pm on a Sunday night.

Not as bad as the waste which goes down Coronation Drive, where the 444 and P88 try and race the Richlands and Ipswich trains from Roma Street to Indooroopilly. I don't think the buses have won in a while though... 

[Set in train]

Route 250 operates on 30 minute cycles
If the money used to cut the route short were spent on doubling the frequency, there would be little loss of time and for passengers going to Carindale a halving of wait time.

Indeed Lapdog, during the weekdays until 7pm outbound, the service operates on 30 minute cycles.

Your comment about "If the money used to cut the route short were spent..." is most interesting. I believe the service deserves quarter hourly frequency during the day and an upgrade on weekends from the horrible hourly frequency (daytime at least) and the Sunday afternoon cutoff around 5pm. Redland City bus services have been overhauled many times, but the service span has never changed.

I would also like to see the quarter hourly weekday services used as a springboard to the 250 ending the archaic all stops from Redland Bay Marina to Carindale and every second service being an express bus. Legibly identified as the Express 250 or E250 if it won't fit on bus destos.

As for Simon's comment, "there could be the one stopping pattern that a number of people seek along the major corridors like Old Cleveland Rd", for Redland City residents, I believe this is incorrect. The 250 is very much appreciated for its non stop, speedy run from Carindale to Stones Corner. Patrons of the 130/40/50 enjoy skipping Holland Park, Greenslopes & Buranda stations, why shouldn't the 250? In fact, the diversion into the Sleeman park and ride was another blunder, with much time lost as well as still being located at the old Capalaba interchange instead of a speedy ride along Moreton Bay Road where there would be an outbound bus stop on the Capalaba Central side to compliment the new park n ride inbound. Likewise, removing the two u-turns the route makes through Cleveland CBD would be most helpful also. The ideas in this paragraph as well as continuing direct into town would considerably speed up the journey and make it highly attractive to a new pool of customers.

James, thanks for your comment too. I was comparing a like-for-like route along Old Cleveland Rd to the Buranda busway in anticipation of changes that would remove a high freq route off Deshon St etc to Mater Hill. The timetable may be one thing, but actually hop on a 250 and see how it speeds along. Drivers say they are told they can wait no longer than one minute at any busway station and consequently, Carindale is the major point where they wait for the timetable to catch up. So once you're on the busway on a 250, you're on a speedy ride to Carindale bus station.

That brings me to another point, the timetable. Drivers complain the duration of the run has been reduced from 120 mins to 100 mins. They also complain of the fixed duration no matter the time of day or day. This means that peak hour services and school times are considerably slower yet at night or on weekends, the 250 is forced to dawdle along and wait long periods at major stops for the timetable to catch up with them. Another Strachan era Translink blunder, this slavish adherence for a consistent clock face even when it significantly diminishes the attractiveness of the service.

[#Metro]

In an example, I was able to show the principle that you could increase the service frequency at almost no cost if you simply introduced connections into a system and re-allocated duplicated bus-km into more intensive services.

Route 250 is a long route.

No doubt the system is a mess, waste galore both in bus and train. The sooner that waste is captured and re-allocated to useful production, the better.



http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4415.0

[Set in train]

In an example, I was able to show the principle that you could increase the service frequency at almost no cost if you simply introduced connections into a system and re-allocated duplicated bus-km into more intensive services.

Route 250 is a long route.

No doubt the system is a mess, waste galore both in bus and train. The sooner that waste is captured and re-allocated to useful production, the better.

I agree and I read those tables at the time, a great illustration of how savings can be made.

My argument to retain the route into town could be pointed at civic pride, e.g. 555, 140, 150 all travel from Logan City with a forced change at the city boundary.

If there was a coordinated effort to time inbound BT buses with arriving 250 buses at Carindale so you could touch off, walk to the next bay and then touch on and go in two minutes or less, that would be acceptable to me. But considering coordination no longer happens between QR & SS, I doubt the burly, beleaguered BT would ever engage in such an innovation.

[somebody]

Right now we have a multitude of buses all running to the CBD along Old Cleveland Road with three different stopping patterns (200/222, 204, 250)

Actually 4 different stopping patterns.  The 222 stops at Bennetts Rd and the 200 doesn't.  3 different routes though.

As for Simon's comment, "there could be the one stopping pattern that a number of people seek along the major corridors like Old Cleveland Rd", for Redland City residents, I believe this is incorrect. The 250 is very much appreciated for its non stop, speedy run from Carindale to Stones Corner. Patrons of the 130/40/50 enjoy skipping Holland Park, Greenslopes & Buranda stations, why shouldn't the 250? In fact, the diversion into the Sleeman park and ride was another blunder, with much time lost as well as still being located at the old Capalaba interchange instead of a speedy ride along Moreton Bay Road where there would be an outbound bus stop on the Capalaba Central side to compliment the new park n ride inbound. Likewise, removing the two u-turns the route makes through Cleveland CBD would be most helpful also. The ideas in this paragraph as well as continuing direct into town would considerably speed up the journey and make it highly attractive to a new pool of customers.

You've missed my point.  I was bagging out the Translink review and members here who supported it.  It called for a single stopping pattern on numerous corridors.

[HappyTrainGuy]

For the northside the Translink review just shat all over BT's network even if it wasn't perfect without the help of BT themselves. The network was finally actually a proper network. Gympie Road could easily have gone to 1 stopping pattern as it's not a long distance to the city and along busways. No questions at all about it. You might not agree but I'll tell you straight up. Just go and look for yourself. Its just waste. Too much duplication. Buses carrying air. Buses crowded. Express buses. All stop buses. Buz services stuck behind all stoppers. Buz services shadowing each other. 330/333/340 running together through the innercity busway because of the northern busway setup. The corridor is just pure waste of inefficiency! They might be scheduled to run at different times but in real life they simply don't. 330/331 shadow each other during peak hour. 332/333/340/370 shadowing each other. 375, 379, 370 following each other through the valley and along Gympie Road. They are running too many buses in corridors instead of where they are needed the most. Its about time they cut the BS and fix the f***ing network once and for all!

[somebody]

For the northside the Translink review just shat all over BT's network even if it wasn't perfect without the help of BT themselves. The network was finally actually a proper network. Gympie Road could easily have gone to 1 stopping pattern as it's not a long distance to the city and along busways. No questions at all about it. You might not agree but I'll tell you straight up. Just go and look for yourself. Its just waste. Too much duplication. Buses carrying air. Buses crowded. Express buses. All stop buses. Buz services stuck behind all stoppers. Buz services shadowing each other. 330/333/340 running together through the innercity busway because of the northern busway setup. The corridor is just pure waste of inefficiency! They might be scheduled to run at different times but in real life they simply don't. 330/331 shadow each other during peak hour. 332/333/340/370 shadowing each other. 375, 379, 370 following each other through the valley and along Gympie Road. They are running too many buses in corridors instead of where they are needed the most. Its about time they cut the BS and fix the f***ing network once and for all!

You might tell me, but it doesn't make you right.

I'm quite certain you are wrong, in fact.

[#Metro]

I think we all agree that there is mass waste in the system, neither review was 100% satisfactory but a golden opportunity was wasted.

[HappyTrainGuy]

So how frequently do you travel along the Gympie Road corridor? Because the 370 stops at 3-4 extra stops and goes via the Valley is justification to keep the route running when stops are being considered to add to the 333/340 routes? So the northern busway doesn't bunch services? All you have to do is go there and look for yourself. Its the same as the stick you kick up about Darra and what not without actually knowing the area.

[somebody]

So how frequently do you travel along the Gympie Road corridor? Because the 370 stops at 3-4 extra stops and goes via the Valley is justification to keep the route running when stops are being considered to add to the 333/340 routes? So the northern busway doesn't bunch services? All you have to do is go there and look for yourself. Its the same as the stick you kick up about Darra and what not without actually knowing the area.

Not that often, but I do travel frequently on similar corridors which they similarly planned to ruin.

[ozbob]

I think we all agree that there is mass waste in the system, neither review was 100% satisfactory but a golden opportunity was wasted.

Indeed PT has been back years in SEQ ...   farce ...

[HappyTrainGuy]

That's really great Simon but similar is not the Gympie Road corridor  :bi

I've said it in my other posts and I've always said for the northside. What might work for the Gympie Road corridor may and won't work on other corridors. You can't always apply something because you/someone thinks it seems similar. Each corridor is different. Different stop locations. Different road conditions. Different flows. Different Routes. Different feeder arrangements. Railway lines. Different points of interest. Different rollingstock. Different travel times. Yes, Gympie Road should have 1 running pattern. 330/333/340/370 can very easily be merged for the Gympie Road-City corridor. The translink review cut a hell of a lot of routes but it also reshuffled them into new routes and better improved routes. The Strathpine-Chermside via Bracken Ridge route replaced parts of the 326, 327, 329, 335, 336, 337, 340, started/finished at interchanges and interchanged with 2 railway stations. The northside loop replaced parts of the 310, 315, 325, 326, 327, 328, 335, 336, 337, 340, serviced new areas for the first time in history, serviced 6 interchanges and stopped at 3 railway stations. The 315 was modified in favor of sending the 310 into Chermside replacing the various routes. I know you didn't like the review but I will say it again. Not considering the other areas; the northside part of the network review even if it wasn't perfect was by far the very best advancement in the regions PT history in decades or if not ever. It addressed the waste. It addressed duplication. It addressed the lack of east-west routes. It addressed the limitations of rollingstock and overcrowding at the Chermside interchange. It addressed the poor railway feeders. It addressed popular areas that have never had PT.

[somebody]

Gah! No!

[HappyTrainGuy]

Gah! No!

Hmph. Typical. Ride a bus or drive out this way to see what your similar network is like then I might take you more seriously. It's people that had stances like that with regards to change in areas they weren't familiar with which got the review sh%t caned in the first place.

[somebody]

Been out there quite a number of times.

Three cheers for the shelving of the bus review!  The first proposal probably fixed about 1/3 of the problems.  The second proposal might have fixed more, but it created numerous problems for no reason.

[HappyTrainGuy]

And yet you think the network is fine and dandy. Enjoy your rate rise 

[somebody]

You should know that I don't think it's "fine and dandy".  It's just that the proposed network was even worse.

[HappyTrainGuy]

But it was better for the northside. I don't care about what was happening in other regions but the review for the northside (Milton and west is not the northside) was truly a step forward. The network was also set up for future infrastructure projects and allowed longer buses to operate on the northside.

[minbrisbane]

You should know that I don't think it's "fine and dandy".  It's just that the proposed network was even worse.

What was bad about it?  Really?  I personally thought it was radical step that needed to be taken.

[somebody]

What was bad about it?  Really?  I personally thought it was radical step that needed to be taken.

You clearly haven't read the whole thread.  Have a read what I posted previously:

I guess there's no reason to keep my comments off the forum.  Here they are, starting with the negative:

I really dislike the unstated idea of removing the distinction between all stops services and express services which seems to be implicit in the review.  This is sure to result in significant slow downs in the services overall, making them a less attractive alternative to driving and also increasing the operating cost.  The current system sees the majority of people walking to the express stops rather than just using the nearest stop.  The speeds up services while still providing for the less mobile.

It seems that the service between Fortitude Valley and Royal Brisbane Hospital is being removed, as well as the 393 which connects Bowen Hills to Royal Brisbane.  This combination is a terrible feature.  The connection to Fortitude Valley is well used and the S99 proposal will go near Royal Childrens Hospital but not Royal Brisbane.  What should happen is that the 393 should be returned to running to Roma St similar to what it did until 2008 and be increased in frequency.  There is probably no particular reason why one needs to go via Fortitude Valley instead of Bowen Hills but needing to loop around via Roma St will be very annoying and a needless deterrent to public transport use.

Similarly there appears to be a significant downgrade in capacity northwards from Roma St on the Northern Busway in the morning peak.  Even the bus review document states that this is at 79.9% capacity leaving Normanby station, including services bound for Kelvin Grove Rd which no doubt account for a significant portion of the 20.1% unused capacity.  It seems that a reduction of about 16.7% is likely - you don't see the 333 operating more than every 15 minutes counter peak and I expect that will also apply to "frequent route 11".  This is a further reason why the 393 should be returned to servicing Roma St.

I don't like the idea of converting King George Square to a lead stop configuration.  Firstly, I'm not aware of somewhere in the world which has an underground bus station with passengers waiting areas in the vehicle exhaust. Bondi Junction has similar screens to Queen St and King George Square.  Britomart in Auckland has diesel trains underground and people breathing exhaust fumes - reputedly not at all pleasant.  The electrification plans in Auckland will solve this problem.  Secondly, a lead stop configuration for something that is more than 50% longer than the Cultural Centre would be a very unpleasant passenger experience.  Far nicer to be at the place where the bus is going to stop rather than having to predict where it might and move to where it actually goes.  The lead stop configuration also adds to dwell times and reduces productivity.  It's a necessary evil at the Cultural Centre.

I'm confused about what is proposed for Adelaide St.  I really don't see a reason for major changes there - the current system works quite well.  The part which doesn't work well is having some routes bound for Woolloongabba for example on Adelaide St, some on Ann St, some in Queen St bus station and some in King George Square bus station.  Some consolidation could be helpful, but a very long lead stop configuration would be annoying and reduce productivity, similarly to the above.

Pretty disappointing that the easily achievable traffic arrangments at the Cultural Centre, sending West End bound buses into the general traffic lanes and removing phases from the traffic light cycles aren't going to be proceeded with.

I don't know why "rocket" routes like the P119, P137 etc would be removed.  That will certainly necessitate increased buses through the Cultural Centre in spite of the Cultural Centre still experiencing congestion with the changes.

It seems that the mediocre patronage at Griffith University, Nathan campus is to be sacrificed with the removal of the 134, 135, 145 and 155 services.  Universities should have high patronage due to a large portion of captive users but poor services appear to constrain it.  It is disappointing that this is to be made even worse.

* I don't like the frequent route 23 serving Buranda before using the old O'Keefe St portal and exiting onto Ipswich Rd.  The new O'Keefe St portal which the current 77 uses would be superior, particularly in the outbound direction.  Serving the stop on O'Keefe St would allow a short walk to effect an interchange for those that would like to.  Also, no service for Ipswich Rd between Woolloongabba and O'Keefe St appears to be planned.  That's a long distance without a bus stop served at all.

I also dislike frequent 17 for the same reason.  It should be either via the entire length of Logan Rd for coverage, via Cornwall/Juliette Sts or two routes for speed, one doing either thing.

I don't agree with the rationale for moving the current 385 to Waterworks Rd rather than Coopers Camp Rd.  The rationale being that people cannot remember 3 route numbers 379, 380 and 381 to reach the inner part of Waterworks Rd.  I completely disagree with this line of thought; people can remember three consecutive numbers.  That will then mean needing to run inbound along congested Countess St, then Roma St and enter the busway at Turbot St, assuming that move is possible and safe.  This will mean that there is no real benefit to the busway inbound for the 385/Frequent Route 6.  Currently the route via Countess St is 9 minutes slower from Greenlanes Rd to Roma St than the 385.  I also disagree with getting out of the way of the Maroon Glider.  If council insists on funding this to the detriment of the network, Translink shouldn't be helping them.  One might argue that the 385 should serve Settlement Rd and a Waterworks Rd bus serve Payne Rd, but people beyond Settlement Rd would not like this.

I really disagree with the 375/S111 Bardon service being excluded from King George Square.  That is the sort of mediocrity that this review should have fixed, then the Caxton St services will have a common stop at King George Square.  It will also prevent the slow route via Herschel St on the inbound.

There is no reason to keep the 470's Teneriffe Ferry service that I can see with the Blue Glider.  Running down Lamington St to the Powerhouse should be investigated, and this could be tagged on to S101 just as easily as the S111.  This should be combined with frequent route 5 running direct along Brunswick St and frequent route 4 running along the riverbank.  An RBH-Valley-New Farm service would be logical along the current 199 route through New Farm in my opinion.

Removing the 135 and 131 will mean that Hellawell Rd is unserviced.  The comment states people will have to walk 600m.  I make it 900m from Hellawell/Jackon Rds along Jackson Rd and 1400m along Hellawell Rd   This is pretty disappointing.

I would question whether frequent route 26 Mt Ommaney via Indooroopilly can be attractive relative to a car.  Going via Indooroopilly as compared to the Western Freeway is heaps slower and I feel that a route via the Western Freeway is needed, except for people who are actually going to Indooroopilly of course.

Jindalee feeder service requires a long trip at a 90 degree angle to the direction to the city to reach rail line and then the city.  This will not be attractive either.

I don't like frequent route 16 much - it will be too slow going via the Stanley Bridge.  I think people on Cavendish Rd between Chatsworth Rd and Holland Rd should have been able to expect a via Cornwall/Juliette Sts service out of this upgrade.  I like a 174 service via Cornwall/Juliette Sts to cover Newnham Rd and the via Stanley Bridge route covering Ham Rd, but I guess that point can easily be argued.

I like the Moggill to UQ service, #500, but this should follow the current 432 route and stopping pattern between Indooroopilly and UQ.  Also, there should not be a downgrade in the frequency through Kenmore in particular.

Why is the 344 to remain?  That's a poor performing peak only route while profitable routes like the 374 are being removed.

Why aren't we selling go cards on buses and pulling paper with this review?

Why is the 120 to be removed from the frequent network?  For nearly it's entire route it's the only viable service and performs quite well.

Why isn't there a UQ-Toowong non stop service, as with Melbourne's 601 to Monash and Sydney's 891/895 to UNSW?

118 is to be made even less useful, why keep it running then?

Why is the 150 planned to stay as one, too long route, famous for unreliability?  I do like the connection to Sunnybank Hills shops though, that will allow interchange to the 130/140 services.  This may mitigate the previous point to some degree.

For all the compromises made to reduce the number of routes, it seems that three quarters are to remain.  It seems a pretty poor trade to me.

I don't like frequent route 8 much - 15 minute weekend frequency feeding 30 weekend train services seems daft. It's also something of a deviation.  I would have thought that the goal of serving the Brookside shopping centre would be left to a secondary route.

Frequent route 7 doubles up the 390 along Samford Rd west of Wardell St.  Seems to be overkill also along a train line.

I don't like the removal of the 411.  It's a major deviation to go via Taringa (with a walk), Indooroopilly or UQ.

Frequent route 11 seems to take in the 330, 333, 370 and part of the 340.  Not sure how this will cover the stops involved without being insanely slow.

I do like the frequent service 23 and feeders for Inala/Forest Lake, as against a BUZ 100.  The inner part of Beaudesert Rd is underserved and high patronage, which could be grown.

I also like frequent route 10.  Picks up the 325, 379 and part of the 335 services.

Frequent routes 12 and 15 are also an improvement and needed.

I support the removal of the 10 minute peak frequency standard from the "frequent service" standard.  That will remove confusion and increase operational practicalities regarding turn around times, particularly at Queen St bus station.  This will allow such things as the 119 and 120 to leave from the same stop in Queen St bus station as they used to.  This is actually one of the best aspects of the review.

--end--
Agree with me or not, that is what I think.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Frequent route 11 seems to take in the 330, 333, 370 and part of the 340.  Not sure how this will cover the stops involved without being insanely slow.

Mate, sorry, but I have to call bull on that. If you traveled along the Gympie Road corridor you'd know that it's not the stops slowing services but its actually the traffic light cycles and the busway entrances/exits which are the main things that are slowing services. IIRC the 370's are only scheduled to be 2-3 minutes slower than the buz services despite being listed as an All stops service.



Edit: Added pic.

[James]

James, thanks for your comment too. I was comparing a like-for-like route along Old Cleveland Rd to the Buranda busway in anticipation of changes that would remove a high freq route off Deshon St etc to Mater Hill. The timetable may be one thing, but actually hop on a 250 and see how it speeds along. Drivers say they are told they can wait no longer than one minute at any busway station and consequently, Carindale is the major point where they wait for the timetable to catch up. So once you're on the busway on a 250, you're on a speedy ride to Carindale bus station.

That brings me to another point, the timetable. Drivers complain the duration of the run has been reduced from 120 mins to 100 mins. They also complain of the fixed duration no matter the time of day or day. This means that peak hour services and school times are considerably slower yet at night or on weekends, the 250 is forced to dawdle along and wait long periods at major stops for the timetable to catch up with them. Another Strachan era Translink blunder, this slavish adherence for a consistent clock face even when it significantly diminishes the attractiveness of the service.

Irrelevant - the 222 is actually faster than the 250. Not sure how that works, but regardless, either cut the fat from your express services or even better - cut that leg off and use the money saved to increase frequency on the Carindale - Victoria Point part of the route. I know I've looked at using the 250 to Capalaba - and to be honest the half-hourly frequency is crap.

But this moves on to my next point - locations in zones 5 and above do not deserve express services to the CBD. Most of the current exceptions (130/140/150/330/444/555) are required due to the utter failure of successive governments to build any rail infrastructure and the ignorance of pre-existing rail infrastructure by governments at all level. The 250 is not one of these routes - I believe the bus should be both terminated at Carindale, and long-term, the Cleveland line should be re-aligned along a fast alignment which goes from Murrarie to Manly with maybe one station in between. Cleveland line could then be extended down to Victoria Point. The 250 just duplicates pre-existing routes.

Some will disagree with this stance as being somewhat counter intuitive - but if you live in zone 6 or 7, you should not expect an express trip to your doorstep. Nor do I think it is necessary, a 5 minute transfer on a 60 minute journey is far more significant than a 5 minute transfer on a 20 minute journey.

Been out there quite a number of times.

Three cheers for the shelving of the bus review!  The first proposal probably fixed about 1/3 of the problems.  The second proposal might have fixed more, but it created numerous problems for no reason.

I totally agree, the network is not broken. That's why we have large sections of the western suburbs served by one infrequent bus route. Given there's such an emphasis on seats, maybe we should look at how many seats operate between Toowong and the CBD. We have:
- Four 6-car trains per hour (236 x 2 x 4) = 1888 seats
- 24 buses per hour (40 x 24) = 960 seats
Total: 2848 seats

Lets not get started on the poor feeder network and the waste that is routes like the 161, 172, 232 and the 435. The bus network isn't broken, we hear them say. Meanwhile, on Coronation Drive, empty buses barrel towards the CBD while half-full pre-paid express buses run beside half-full trains. Waste. Aside from 444 frequency downgrades, the network for the western suburbs was very much sound. The only things which were at all questionable were mostly regarding through-routing of all buses to UQ (unsure whether that capacity is necessary, especially during Uni breaks) and 411 axing.

[Gazza]

The only things which were at all questionable were mostly regarding through-routing of all buses to UQ (unsure whether that capacity is necessary, especially during Uni breaks) and 411 axing.

Wasn't the plan that outside of uni periods some buses would terminate at Indro station instead?

[STB]

I'm a frequent user of Route 250 (and used to plan the service back in 2005-2009), and I can safely say that the majority of the patronage is actually going to Carindale, not the city.  The peak period you'll find people travelling on the peak express routes (251 etc).  Given the high level of service along the Old Cleveland Rd corridor, I personally don't find it necessary to run it all day city, especially when it's carrying air most of the time to the city.

My only criticism is that I would've preferred if it ran all day all the time, or to Carindale all the time to save off confusion among the public.

By the way I strongly disagree with having express 250s during the day in the Redlands area, that causes confusion in the network and disadvantages the public by not servicing the area properly.  If you want an express, catch one of the expresses in the morning to the city, the 250 will cover the rest.

[STB]

I should add too that in public transport planning, express services is simply crowd management, it's not meant to get you somewhere quicker, that is psychological.  At the same time, having multiple versions of the same route is just simply silly and childish planning.