Terms of use Privacy About us Media Contact

Author Topic: 470  (Read 3400 times)

Offline Gazza

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5382
470
« on: August 23, 2012, 12:58:55 PM »
http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/network-information/timetables/120123-470,416.pdf

So, this route has me stumped. What does it do exactly? Why does it need to exist? Why do some trips randomly only go part of the way? What's the go with the uneven frequency?
I'm not sure I understand how it works...Does it depart Toowong Village, but once per hour it does a loop through Toowong?

My brain hurts.

somebody

  • Guest
Re: 470
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2012, 01:03:12 PM »
(a) It needs to exist to serve the Duke St area
(b) It needs to exist to serve the Milton Rd/Croydon St area
(c) Yes, every second trip goes via Duke St

Seems fairly obvious to me.

Offline Jonas Jade

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 248
Re: 470
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2012, 01:05:33 PM »
The 470 provides the all stops service along all of Milton Road? Any other routes that do this?

Up until Milton this is fairly important as some of those areas do have significant walks to other bus routes or train stations.

Other than that, all the other points are perplexing. I didn't realise it had such a weird timetable.

Offline Gazza

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5382
Re: 470
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2012, 01:09:56 PM »
Why not just go from duke st straight to Toowong station?

As for serving Milton Rd...I'd hope that could be done with a Centenary BUZ down the track?

What about the other end of the route though to Tennerife...Seems like a CityGlider wannabe and not needed.

somebody

  • Guest
Re: 470
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2012, 01:14:11 PM »
The 470 provides the all stops service along all of Milton Road? Any other routes that do this?
No, not west of Baroona Rd.  Indeed no other routes serve any stops west of Baroona Rd except Toowong Cemetery in peak.

Offline #Metro

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20302
Re: 470
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2012, 06:05:33 PM »
Quote
(a) It needs to exist to serve the Duke St area
(b) It needs to exist to serve the Milton Rd/Croydon St area
(c) Yes, every second trip goes via Duke St

Seems fairly obvious to me.

CUT!!

In the CFN model, propose to send BUZ 411 down Milton Road, and cut the 470 into a feeder service (might send it to Taringa as a coverage route).
And feedback or refinements to the CFN?
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members. Not affiliated with, paid by or in conspiracy with MTR/Metro.

Offline Gazza

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5382
Re: 470
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2012, 08:13:48 PM »
Don't support 411 going via Milton Rd, as it's too much of a detour.

I'd

-Have one of the Centenary BUZes using Milton Rd full time.
-Feederise the 470 to Toowong.

Offline #Metro

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20302
Re: 470
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2012, 11:12:24 PM »
I'd argue that there are a lot of students in the Toowong, Auchenflower, Milton area and that in itself would justify a UQ trip. I don't think it is indirect at all.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members. Not affiliated with, paid by or in conspiracy with MTR/Metro.

Offline Golliwog

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5042
Re: 470
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2012, 11:18:27 PM »
I'd argue that there are a lot of students in the Toowong, Auchenflower, Milton area and that in itself would justify a UQ trip. I don't think it is indirect at all.
But at the same time, if these students are already there, then they're clearly already finding some way of getting to UQ/QUT. I don't think Coronation Drive and the 412 are that far a walk/ride for most of that area.
There is no silver bullet… but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Offline #Metro

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20302
Re: 470
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2012, 06:55:05 AM »
470 isn't that great, hawken drive could do with a BUZ plus there are enough BUZzes going down Coronation Drive at the moment anyway and I would strongly disagree that it were an easy walk to Coro Drive from the residential areas of Milton, Auchenflower and Toowong. The rail line, development and topography are significant barriers to pedestrian movement in this area.

http://www.nearmap.com/?q=@-27.477245,152.990649&ll=-27.477245,152.990649&z=16&t=h&nmd=20120803
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 07:11:10 AM by tramtrain »
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members. Not affiliated with, paid by or in conspiracy with MTR/Metro.

somebody

  • Guest
Re: 470
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2012, 08:00:14 AM »
I think the way people are getting from the west end of Milton Rd to UQ is the 470!  +interchange at Toowong.

Offline #Metro

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20302
Re: 470
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2012, 09:23:00 AM »
Quote
I think the way people are getting from the west end of Milton Rd to UQ is the 470!  +interchange at Toowong.

CFN is all about starting fresh. Yes, it's not the same as what we have now - and it's not supposed to be! Otherwise we would just retain the network as is!

411 along Milton Road would allow a service closer to the residential parts of Toowong, Milton, Auchenflower where students live. Unlike the current 470, It would have balanced loads in both directions (uni at one end, CBD at other) and cover the sections that are not covered by Ipswich Line rail. It would provide BUZ level service to Hawken Drive St. Lucia but also give a BUZ service to Milton Road (there is already oversupply of service on Coronation Drive as it is already!) and on top of that eliminate a transfer at Toowong (save walking time ~ 5 - 10 minutes + frequency penalty). That would also allow the Duke street vestige/legacy route to be feederised and turned into something else (I have suggested a coverage route between Indooroopilly, Taringa and feeding into Toowong Rail CFN).

Posters on this forum now have to opportunity to draw their own network, de novo using the Core Frequent Network KML file. It is all good and well to discuss individual routes, but since the entire network needs to be reviewed and changed, why not start off with that framework? Start off with the CFN and then build off that. Tweaking individual routes is useful, but without the wider network view, we're changing the colour of pixels in a bigger picture.

http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8959.0
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members. Not affiliated with, paid by or in conspiracy with MTR/Metro.

Offline #Metro

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20302
Re: 470
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2012, 09:39:58 AM »
Oh, and route 416 is classic 'Rocket to my house' kind of bus route!
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members. Not affiliated with, paid by or in conspiracy with MTR/Metro.

Offline Golliwog

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5042
Re: 470
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2012, 10:53:37 AM »
I think the way people are getting from the west end of Milton Rd to UQ is the 470!  +interchange at Toowong.
Or cycling. Sylvan Rd has bike lanes (sort of) and there is bike access to UQ through Sandford St (or alternatively, the Citycats at the Regatta). While I agree that Milton Rd should have a BUZ service, I don't think it needs its own UQ route.

I would much rather support something like shifting the 444/some other western suburbs BUZ routes from Coro to go from Moggill Rd onto Croydon St then right onto Milton Rd. If there were bus stops adjacent to the Sherwood Rd/Croydon St intersection, the walk to the 412/402 bus stop would be quite manageable.
There is no silver bullet… but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Offline Gazza

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5382
Re: 470
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2012, 11:06:04 AM »
A few mates I went to uni with used to walk from west Toowong to the 412 stop at the station...It's not that far actually, which is why they do it.
And further East, at worst, Milton Rd is like 500m from Coro.

Offline #Metro

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20302
Re: 470
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2012, 11:12:39 AM »
Quote
A few mates I went to uni with used to walk from west Toowong to the 412 stop at the station...It's not that far actually, which is why they do it.
And further East, at worst, Milton Rd is like 500m from Coro.

But like I said Gazza, pedestrian movement between the two areas is not free-flowing and easy. The older residential parts are on the northern border of milton road. I'm not convinced that retention of the 470 along this stretch is significantly better than a 411 Milton Road BUZ. Your mates might make the walk, but I would suggest that a 411 Milton Road BUZ would get many more passengers going to UQ, balanced loads in both directions and thus higher patronage than the current situation.

By your argument, we could get away with providing no service at all on Milton Road - 'Just walk to Coronation Drive'. Residents along that section will also want to go to the CBD, and a BUZ 411 along there would also be useful for that.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members. Not affiliated with, paid by or in conspiracy with MTR/Metro.

Offline Gazza

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5382
Re: 470
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2012, 11:19:34 AM »
Quote
But like I said Gazza, pedestrian movement between the two areas is not free-flowing and easy.
Yes it is. There's heaps of cross streets between Milton Rd and Coro Drive, and heaps of little underpasses under the rail line.

Quote
balanced loads in both directions
I would be worse for St Lucia residents heading to the CBD.

somebody

  • Guest
Re: 470
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2012, 11:47:13 AM »
Oh, and route 416 is classic 'Rocket to my house' kind of bus route!
It made a bit more sense in days when there was a bus/transit lane on Coro.

A few mates I went to uni with used to walk from west Toowong to the 412 stop at the station...It's not that far actually, which is why they do it.
And further East, at worst, Milton Rd is like 500m from Coro.
Further east Auchenflower station becomes a reasonable option.

Quote
But like I said Gazza, pedestrian movement between the two areas is not free-flowing and easy.
Yes it is. There's heaps of cross streets between Milton Rd and Coro Drive, and heaps of little underpasses under the rail line.
Parts of Coro are a real pain in the bum to cross.

achiruel

  • Guest
Re: 470
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2012, 11:42:13 AM »
How about the Teneriffe end of this route?

To me this seems a leftover that used to serve Bulimba Ferry passengers in the days before the 199 extended there and the CityGlider came into existence.

Why not continue it along James/Lamington St to the Powerhouse Theatre?

Unfortunately the Brookes/Wandoo/Doggett St dogleg will still need to exist due to East St being one way - unless one lane is converted to an opposing-flow bus lane, although I think the > 90º right turn needed would prevent that.

People needing the ferry can still connect at Merthyr Rd and what is currently a bit of a hole in New Farm will be filled, and I think would be useful with all the shops/cafes along James St, also the cinemas and obviously the Powerhouse at the end which in itself is a destination.

somebody

  • Guest
Re: 470
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2012, 12:18:46 PM »
Hmm, I thought that the eastbound 470 was, from Brookes St, R Ann St, L James St.

I agree with taking it out of Tenerriffe.  I think I've said the same thing myself to.  Powerhouse is a good place to serve.

achiruel

  • Guest
Re: 470
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2012, 12:54:10 PM »
Well, not according to the route map, nor when I used to catch it regularly (admittedly a long time ago, back to before the 199 was a BUZ!).

But in retrospect, there's no reason it couldn't go the way you said, the Wandoo/Doggett dogleg does to need to remain, although the Brookes St one does.

As for the western section, I think it should be merged with the 415 to give a decent service both along Milton Rd (there is NO reason for the 415 going along Coro Dr when the 411/433/445 plus all the western expresses do it) and through the parts of Toowong/Taringa that are beyond walking distance from Moggill Rd & railway stations.

Maybe something like



Yes I know it could do with a steam-iron.  But I don't know how you would manage that without steam-ironing the streets as well :)
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 01:20:28 PM by achiruel »

Offline #Metro

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20302
Re: 470
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2012, 05:42:43 PM »
I've wanted to connect the 470 to the 411 and run it along Hawken Drive. This would release labour from driving the 411 all the way down coronation drive for other purposes, such as higher 411 frequency along Milton Road and Hawken Drive. There are students and UQ staff in these suburbs, the uni has massive student population and staff and visitors.

http://www.mis.admin.uq.edu.au/Content/UQKeyStatistics.aspx

There were 31,729 students at UQ St. Lucia alone, to put this in perspective, the entire ACTION bus system in Canberra carries about 30 000 per day.

On top of this there are about 4000 general staff and 3000 academic staff (all campuses), ipswich, gatton and herston are tiny campuses, probably 85% of the above two figures are at UQ St. Lucia.

UQ is the second largest traffic generator after the Brisbane CBD.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members. Not affiliated with, paid by or in conspiracy with MTR/Metro.

Offline #Metro

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20302
Re: 470
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2012, 05:45:52 PM »
I also can't see why something like 415 can't be terminated and feed into rail at Toowong. Too many buses going to the CBD and its a coverage route anyway!
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members. Not affiliated with, paid by or in conspiracy with MTR/Metro.

Offline SurfRail

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8130
Re: 470
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2012, 07:53:24 PM »
My suggestion for the bus review was to go along with the 470 + 411 idea, and to replace routes 414, 415, 416, 417 and 432 with a single bus route going from Toowong to UQ via west Taringa, Indooroopilly, the Long Pocket bus turnaround and St Lucia (route to be determined).
Ride the G:

 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 


“You can't understand a city without using its public transportation system.” -- Erol Ozan