Coal trains in the suburbs (plus other transport issues)

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Diesel emissions spark health fears

As has been suggested a number of times the real major concern is the massive volume of road vehicle emissions ..

... AUSTRALIANS are buying diesel-powered cars in record numbers despite increasing concerns about the health impacts of diesel emissions.

Sales of diesel-powered cars, utes and SUVs have tripled in the past 10 years; they used to represent 10 per cent of the market, they now represent 30 per cent, including 327,500 new deliveries last year alone.

Diesel cars were initially seen as an environmental saviour because they emit less CO2 per kilometre than petrol cars, and buyers appreciate not having to refuel as often.

But it has since emerged diesel cars - including the newer, so-called "clean diesels" - are much worse for our health than first thought.

The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) last year confirmed diesel emissions were carcinogenic, but authorities in Australia are yet to react to the findings.

The last time a federal agency researched the health effects of diesel emissions was in 2005 - based on data sourced in the early 2000s, more than 10 years ago.

A spokesman from the department that published the 2005 report told News Corp Australia "there are no current plans to update the study".

In 2005, the Bureau of Transport and Regional Services estimated vehicle emissions were responsible for "between 900 and 2000" deaths and up to 4500 cardio vascular and respiratory diseases per year. The national death toll from car crashes last year was 1300.

The 2005 study did not distinguish the impact of diesel and unleaded emissions, however diesel is understood to be the larger contributor to air pollution given that diesel emits 56 times more oxides of nitrogen compared to unleaded fuel ...

[petey3801]

Here is an update about the predicament of residents, remembering that many of them have been living there for over 20 years, with no issues until the recent upgrade (and re-use of an old bridge removed from service when the Corinda yards were abandoned) and increase of freight traffic:

1) You live next to a railway line, in fact, the main line to the West of the state from Brisbane. Freight traffic volumes have to be expected to fluctuate over the years. Can't expect freight volumes to fall and stay down. If predictions are correct, freight rail volumes are only going to increase in the future.

2) If the bridge wasn't life expired, why replace it? Why replace a bridge, spending extra $$, if the current one (which is of similar build to the other lines' bridges) will be able to carry traffic for many years to come? That would just be a waste of money and resources.

There is no noise barrier east or west of the tracks between the rail bridge at Allan Tce and the town houses on the old Corinda State School site. Allan Tce is below the railway lines, thus totally exposed to noise and dust from passing trains. Residents who have lived there for 20 years or more are now enjoying greatly increased rail traffic and a bridge that has not been appropriately upgraded to take the extra traffic.

Fair enough about the noise barriers, but you're a loooooong way from being the only ones in this boat. Many steel bridges along the inner Western line have houses below their level and no sound barriers. Long Street East at Graceville is one which is fairly loud (having lived halfway down the road and clearly being able to hear it). The Beatrice St and Whitmore St bridges in the Taringa/Toowong area are also very loud steel bridges (having lived in that area also for some time) with no sound barriers. These are just a few examples.

Northbound coal trains are being held outside Allan Tce again while waiting for signal change.  Is this a change of policy? What happened to the promise that it wouldn't be the case?

I certainly can't deny that sometimes coalies are held for a suburban to cross, but I can confirm that quite often, the suburbans are held at Corinda while the coal trains cross from the Up Main over to the Tennyson line without stopping. How do I know this? Because I have been held at Corinda on a red several times before the coal train has even reached the points to cross over. It would all depend on circumstances at the time the trains arrive. Unfortunately, Control wouldn't be able to give the coalies a clear run through the area 100% of the time for various reasons, but they try their best.

Why are we still being exposed to noise levels from southbound accelerating freight trains massively exceeding QR's own noise code of practice levels, when simple measures could reduce our suffering?

Both the noise and dust pollution generated by the above mentioned factors, can be reduced substantially by the removal of the 70 speed sign on the track in line with 38 Allan Terrace, Corinda. It would be a very much appreciated gesture towards us residents and more importantly cost neutral to QR.

1) Aurizon or the EPA are the ones to talk to about the diesel locomotive noise levels. Although, they really haven't gotten any louder in engine noise levels, as the locomotives used are the same ones that have been used for a number of years on the western coal trains. Agree they are loud, but that's something to talk to Aurizon about. Much quicker than going via QR, who then have to run their own tests and then talk with Aurizon. So might as well cut out the middle man.

2) What a load of crap (re: the 70 board). The reason the coal trains accelerate where they do is because the end of their train has just cleared the 40km/h speed restricted curve off the Tennyson line. With the whole train now in the 60 speed zone (that starts at Corinda station), the train is now free to accelerate to 60km/h and prepare for the uphill grade towards Darra. The train cannot accelerate to 70 until the whole train is clear of that 70 board, by which time the front of the train has entered a small 60km/h zone through Oxley anyway. Therefore, while the 70km/h board could be removed without much problem, it would do NOTHING to reduce noise or dust or ANYTHING AT ALL.

The noise levels from the Allan Terrace bridge-ends, generated mostly by the electric passenger trains, have reached a point where the noise from the bridge now exceeds the noise levels generated by the trains themselves. When will QR finally stop the deterioration of the bridge and bring it up to a standard that is designed to cope safely with current and future levels of rail traffic and be environmentally friendly?

The unnecessary noise and dust that we are expected to endure, suggests in our eyes, a lack of maintenance that is a sign of neglect and irresponsibility. We are worried and fearful of the enduring "pothole mentality" that seems to apply to rail track maintenance. Will it take a major accident to cause QR to undertake maintenance on this unfortunate bridge?

Wow. I hope you've got a lot of evidence to support your 'lack of maintenance', 'neglected', 'irresponsible' stand point. Personally, i'm calling bullsh!t, and large amounts of it. Just because a bridge creates noise, doesn't mean it is in any way dangerous, unless you decide to stand on it and not move while a train is approaching. There are many bridges around the network that are noisy, does that mean they're a death trap about to collapse? No. It is a by-product of their construction. Steel bridges are always going to be louder than concrete and even wooden bridges. Doesn't mean they're dangerous. I gave a couple examples of loud bridges around Graceville and Toowong/Taringa earlier. Also go have have a listen to the bridge between Thomas St and Wulkaraka.


If you and your group of residents want to be thought of as anything other than a bunch of whinging NIMBYs, I would suggest you do a little more research (and quoting newspaper articles doesn't equate to research... Look at the actual reports and quote directly from them instead, as you did in your last quote), and don't make stupidly outrageous claims (such as neglected infrastructure that's about to kill people).

[mufreight]

Petey 3801, right on the mark, could not agree more.   

[ozbob]

From the ABC News click here!

Miners fear coal train dust results won't pacify critics

Miners fear coal train dust results won't pacify critics
By Fidelis Rego

Mining companies say a report on dust emissions from coal trains in southern Queensland will not satisfy critics.

For three months, trains carrying coal from the Darling Downs to the Port of Brisbane were monitored for dust emissions earlier this year.

Tests were carried out before and after a dust-suppressing veneer was sprayed on wagons.

Queensland Resources Council (QRC) chief executive officer Michael Roche says coal dust particles were well within Australian standards at all times.

"We have further committed today to a further 12 months of monitoring so that we can continue to test across all seasons of the year and also test with the implementation of veneering by the other mines just what the results will be," Mr Roche said.

He says it backs the companies' claims the trains are not a risk to human health but doubts critics will be satisfied.

"They have a bigger agenda which is about an anti-coal agenda," he said.

However, Peter Faulkner from the Oakey Coal Action Alliance says he has reason not to trust the findings.

"They have a vested interest in making mining sound good," he said.

Mr Faulkner says wagons need to be covered at all times.

"They don't seem to mention anything about the loading facility both at the source or either at the port," he said.

"They're not covering that and they're not monitoring those and the people who live near those are just as badly affected as those along the corridor."

Testing will continue for another 12 months.

[johnnigh]

Anyone who takes the coal industry's own claims at face value has lumps of coal in their head. Remember James Hardie.

[ozbob]

The Project --> Coal dust raises health questions

[ozbob]

Queensland Times --> Clean bill of health for city's coal trains

A GOVERNMENT study into coal dust has found particles have not reached toxic levels along the Ipswich train line.

The results come as the Queensland Resources Council announced a comprehensive coal dust management plan for south-east Queensland.

According to the Department of Environment, since September air quality monitor at Flinders View found dust particles did not enter dangerous levels.

QRC chairman Michael Roche said the coal industry commissioned air quality scientists at the Department of Science, Information Technology and the Arts (DSITIA) to independently assess both health and nuisance impacts of coal dust along the corridor.

"This is not about drawing a line under dust management as an issue but establishing a base from which industry can continue to meet and hopefully exceed community expectations," he said.

But the plan is not enough for Stop Brisbane Coal Trains spokesperson John Gordon.

He said the recent Senate Inquiry into air quality said the national air quality measures are "hopelessly inadequate".

Environment Minister Andrew Powell said the government believes high environmental standards can be maintained while working with industry.

"The plan gives industry a clear starting point to ensure community and environmental standards are not only met but could in fact improve," he said.

"It is encouraging to see the industry take steps that align with the Newman Government's agenda of being open, transparent and supportive of independent scientific input."

Action plan

    Complete the veneering of coal trains by the end of the year
    Fund 12 months of more monitoring and publish the results online
    Inform communities on the report's findings and regular updates on the industry's performance

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Clean Air Wynnum reject independent review of coal dust, conduct their own tests in Brisbane bayside region

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Coal train debate continues as "chunks of coal" are found near Cleveland railway line at Coorparoo

[verbatim9]

A bit of concern re inland rail and coal freight. I thought the wagons must have compulsary covers!?

[ozbob]

From the Sunday Mail 11th October 2015 page 20

COAL-DUST PROBE IN TRAIN

[ozbob]

Queensland Times --> Bringing awareness to health concerns over coal dust

[dancingmongoose]

Lol. My back fence is the Ipswich line, and I'm yet to find any trace of coal dust anywhere

[ozbob]

Exactly.  At the gym this morning as I watched the never ending procession of trucks - B doubles and the usual assortment, the thought occurred this is a much much greater problem with exhaust and tyre debris than the coal ever was.  I have never observed coal dust on stations on the Ippy, and when I lived near the rail line at Darra never had an issue.

[verbatim9]

They should be covered empty or full

[ozbob]

They should be covered empty or full

Agree that covers should be used.  Grain wagons have covers.  If they covered them up then it might actually lead to more freight on rail.  Which is a very good outcome.  Trucks are out of control.  Massive pollution and trauma.

[verbatim9]

Just a bit off topic, Trucks should use their covers too full and empty. Still alot of dust flying around from empty train wagons and trucks. NSW, I am sure have strigent regulation for covers at all times.

[ozbob]

The various studies over the years have shown the major components of the so called 'coal dust' are actually rubber tyre debris and particulate matter from vehicle exhausts ...

[verbatim9]

The various studies over the years have shown the major components of the so called 'coal dust' are actually rubber tyre debris and particulate matter from vehicle exhausts ...

I have been waiting at Cannon Hill station at 8.30pm numerous times with empty coal freight trains going past without covers on. It's pretty dusty. Not like a train whispering by with a breeze in your face.

I would also like QR to utilise the electric network more for freight movements in and around the city. To prevent excessive diesel sulphur dioxide pollution. Shunting to electric locomotives can be done at Rosewood for trains running from the West.

[ozbob]

Doesn't mean it is coal dust.  Could be well the gunk of the mass road network ...

I have been close to coal trains full and empty for 50 years plus.  Brown coal trains were more of an issue.  The black coal these days is veneered etc.

[verbatim9]

End of the day it can be a cleaner less polluting network. I am saying not tomorrow but a 5 year plan?

[ozbob]

I have suggested for years that coal trains should be covered.  The real reason is the coal exporters do not want to pay the costs of covers and the additional handling costs.

The exhaust emissions from the DELs is probably more of real risk, however Queensland Rail decomissioned its electric locomotives .. and now supports a costly electric network to Rocky for the odd electric tilt that is probably on borrowed time as well.

I can remember the 39 electric hauled cattle trains passing my house at Darra.

Put the coal on the roads in B triples.  That will suitably terrorise the community .. in fact that might be the best thing.  Close all the lines, force everything on to the roads.  Wreck everything then wankers might actually get the message. 

[verbatim9]

I have suggested for years that coal trains should be covered.  The real reason is the coal exporters do not want to pay the costs of covers and the additional handling costs.

The exhaust emissions from the DELs is probably more of real risk, however Queensland Rail decomissioned its electric locomotives .. and now supports a costly electric network to Rocky for the odd electric tilt that is probably on borrowed time as well.

I can remember the 39 electric hauled cattle trains passing my house at Darra.

Put the coal on the roads in B triples.  That will suitably terrorise the community .. in fact that might be the best thing.  Close all the lines, force everything on to the roads.  Wreck everything then wankers might actually get the message.

That's sad and environmentally irresponsible. I didn't realise QR decommissioned all of the electric locomotives.

[ozbob]

We suggested at one stage that they could put 39's on the coalies for the run through the suburbs etc.  Would have been a good outcome for the community.  Ignored of course..

They could have set up a loco change point west of Rosewood. 

Nothing much happens in Queensland.

[verbatim9]

I know that Adrian Schrinner is a huge advocate for getting freight movements electrified again. All his constituents are complaining about it. Runs right through his ward

Check out Adrian Schrinner (@Schrinner): https://twitter.com/Schrinner?s=09

[ozbob]

All a bit late sadly.  The last of 39s are being sold right now apparently.  Suggestions to keep a couple for heritage use/display not entertained.  Railways in Queensland are basically stuffed.

[red dragin]

Doesn't mean it is coal dust.  Could be well the gunk of the mass road network ...

Possibly dust from the track bed? see after the minute mark for an extreme example 

I used to live next to the Merivale Bridge. I'd clean my balcony for Riverfire, the next day there was a noticeable amount of black dust on my outdoor table. I assumed brake dust from the trains and tyre/brake dust from Coro Drive. No coal trains through there.

Only cleaned that balcony twice a year! After 8 months it would take a wet sponge, and then a few pieces of paper towel. Moping was at least three buckets of water.

[ozbob]

Reminds of a beat up re ' coal dust ' in one of the papers a few years back.  Coal dust at South Brisbane ...



The stuff is vehicle emission and rubber tyre gunk ...

[HappyTrainGuy]

You guys should see all the coal dust on the new Geebung overpass. Its everywhere.

[red dragin]

You guys should see all the coal dust on the new Geebung overpass. Its everywhere.

S**t, the dust problem is so bad its blowing all the way from the Ipswich line to Geebung!!! 

[verbatim9]

The wagons should be mandatory covered empty or full as well as getting hauled by electric locomotives where possible.

[Terangeree]

"The wagons should be mandatory covered empty or full as well as getting hauled by electric locomotives where possible."

So you're suggesting a new loco depot at Rosewood and either developing the line between Hemmant and Lindum to facilitate loco changes or an extension of the OHLE into the Port of Brisbane?

That might increase the noise in particular suburbs / townships.

[verbatim9]

Yep Oz Bob did mention a facility can be built to change from Diesel to Electric @ Rosewood.

[#Metro]

I wonder if the coal 'dust' isn't dust at all but diesel particulates?

The diesel trains rumble is extremely loud, particularly on the Cleveland line.

[johnnigh]

There does seem to be quite a bit of support for dusty diesel coalies amongst correspondents. Any excuses better than none? Road gunk? Slow news days? Time you came up with a few new ones.

Coal trains are obviously filthy things, the evidence has been collected over years in many jurisdictions. All road freight haulage is covered for the same reason. But not our coal trains ... Politics and power V community health and welfare. A common tale.

Which shippers are now spraying coal wagons to reduce dust hazard? Any, as yet? Or all of them already? < 2.5micron particles are the ones that can kill but are these emissions measured in Q'land?

[red dragin]

I wonder if the coal 'dust' isn't dust at all but diesel particulates?

The diesel trains rumble is extremely loud, particularly on the Cleveland line.

General dust, diesel, metal fines from wheels and rail. Plenty of sources. Covering the wagons might reduce the dust, but won't eliminate it.

I think I've shared before that I used to live on Coro Drive near the railway bridge. My balcony would be filthy with this black dust within 24hrs of cleaning, but no coal trains. Only ever cleaned it for Riverfire & New Years Eve 

[dancingmongoose]

There does seem to be quite a bit of support for dusty diesel coalies amongst correspondents. Any excuses better than none? Road gunk? Slow news days? Time you came up with a few new ones.

Coal trains are obviously filthy things, the evidence has been collected over years in many jurisdictions. All road freight haulage is covered for the same reason. But not our coal trains ... Politics and power V community health and welfare. A common tale.

Which shippers are now spraying coal wagons to reduce dust hazard? Any, as yet? Or all of them already? < 2.5micron particles are the ones that can kill but are these emissions measured in Q'land?

I live along the Ipswich line. My back fence literally runs along the railway corridor. We have a white car parked against the fence. The car is dirty, but it also hasn't moved for the last 5 years. It's also cleaner than the front of the house facing the road, which happens to be a dead end cul-de-sac which would be lucky to see 50 cars go past every day. There are other people I know of who have made similar observations. Just because there is dust it doesn't mean it is coal dust. Have you ever seen a diesel exhaust?

[ozbob]

Queensland Times --> Coal dust health worries for daily train commute

A GROUP of concerned residents is calling on the State Government to prove coal dust and diesel fumes from trains passing through Ipswich Station isn't posing a health risk to residents and passengers.

Ipswich Station is the only place in the country where uncovered coal trains pass through an enclosed passenger terminal, a situation experts say is far from acceptable.

The State Government says the levels of dust are safe and well below air quality guidelines, however, the closest permanent monitoring station is at Flinders View - some seven kilometres away.  ...

[SurfRail]

The ancient DELs would be more of a worry surely.  The low axle loadings on the line ensure they aren't going to be replaced because it isn't going to be cost effective with a new route now coming between Grandchester and Gowrie that obviates the need to go up the current Range alignment.

[bretto82]

First off the coal trains do not stop and dwell on the platform they wait out before the station until they have a road through to the other side and second they are not hammering through busting out fumes it's a nothing story