Wellington patronage figures

[somebody]

	Bus			Ferry			Rail			All modes
Year	Peak	Off peak	Total	Peak	Off peak	Total	Peak	Off peak	Total	Peak	Off peak	Total
2,001/02	8942131	10853556	19795687	53897	60266	114163	6765925	3397136	10163061	15761953	14310958	30072911
2,002/03	9335583	11376315	20711898	56677	60350	117027	6644798	3365650	10010448	16037058	14802315	30839373
2,003/04	9457030	11881576	21338606	62841	64269	127110	6560981	3392427	9953408	16080852	15338272	31419124
2,004/05	9614830	12287774	21902604	70710	67134	137844	6662018	3591793	10253811	16347558	15946701	32294259
2,005/06	10782020	12705532	23487552	80506	75293	155799	7197110	3900313	11097423	18059636	16681138	34740774
2,006/07	10088385	12706607	22794990	82947	73771	156718	7348321	3827673	11175993	17519653	16608051	34127701
2,007/08	9874784	13089600	22964384	91192	85936	177128	7592949	3959501	11552453	17558925	17135037	34693965
2,008/09	9613957	13767290	23381247	87168	92813	179981	7784900	4090921	11875820	17486025	17951024	35437048
2,009/10	9952764	13695076	23647840	86700	95334	182034	7317996	3815681	11133677	17357460	17606091	34963551
2010/11	11288335	12738569	24026904	84294	92287	176581	7402682	3799545	11202227	18775311	16630401	35405712
Last peak to off peak	46%	53%		47%	52%		66%	33%		53%	46%

The peak to off peak ratio is interesting.

[somebody]

Chris Hale has said that the peak is 72% of Citytrain and 61% of Cityrail.

[SurfRail]

Chris Hale has said that the peak is 72% of Citytrain and 61% of Cityrail.

I think that can mostly be explained away by the fact the railway goes to more useful places in Sydney.  No Westfields with train stations here (except - arguably - Helensvale and Strathpine).

[somebody]

Chris Hale has said that the peak is 72% of Citytrain and 61% of Cityrail.

I think that can mostly be explained away by the fact the railway goes to more useful places in Sydney.  No Westfields with train stations here (except - arguably - Helensvale and Strathpine).

Helensvale definitely.

I'd add Indooroopilly even though I don't believe Westfield own it.

I'd explain it more by the fact that there are a number of lines in Sydney which actually have a useful service off peak.  Bankstown, East Hills to Revesby, North Shore, Eastern Suburbs, parts of the Illawarra, South Line mostly, Parts of the Western Line, Inner West line all have levels of service which most of the Citytrain network could only dream of.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Yep. There are more useful areas surrounding stations in Sydney. Not to mention the area is more spread out compared to what we have here in Brisbane.

Strathpine... eh. Its a Westfield but not a really big drawcard compared to others. From the station its still a good 900m walk through the station carpark, along a poorly lit road to cut through the centrelink carpark to cross a congested Gympie Road to a fairly old run down looking shopping centre considering how others such as Chermside (which is just 15 mins up the road), Carindale, Robina have expanded/renovated buildings/more and better stores and better public transport. Morayfield also has Westfield near by which is in a similar boat to Strathpine.

[somebody]

Perhaps the reason why there are more centres near stations in Sydney is because the service is more useful?

I don't believe it happened by accident!

[Arnz]

Westfield doesn't own the Morayfield or Indooroopilly Shopping Centre.

Westfield used to own Indooroopilly in the 90s until they sold it in 2001 or 2002 (open to correction on the selling date of the Indooroopilly Shopping Centre.  They also sold off Toombul to Centro around the same time.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Yeah but that mostly has to do with the general layout of Sydney. Brisbane has been and is very city focused when it comes to public transport, business centres and key points of intrest. That could be improved here by having more railway lines (proper lines/spurs and not just for the sake of having a train line going there) and buses running quickly and directly instead  of what we have now like the hourly 326/327 combo between Strathpine-Sandgate via Bald Hills/Bracken Ridge or routes that duplicate/stop short of key areas (130 terminating at Parkinson instead of going an extra 5 mins down the road to the Browns Plains interchange/shopping centre). The fact that Translink still hasn't revised a large portion of the network from the bus vs rail days and keeps spending big on useless infrastructure (easten and northern busways for example) and routes that could be spent on road widening - buslanes/additional rollingstock/frequency upgrades and better routes doesn't help it.

Well, Strathpine is certainly cut off from other nearby areas eg Bald Hills, Eatons Hill and Bracken Ridge either by poor routes or running hours/patterns (not running on Sundays, 2 hour weekend frequency, confusing changes of routes during peak hour, 9-5 route times). Warner/Lawnton/Strathpine/Bray Park have hourly bus services all day including peak hour. 15 mins to the North is North Lakes Westfield which has more stores, more parking spots, better PT options for Mango Hill/North Lakes/Redcliffe/Deception Bay/Petrie/Kalungur/Kippa Ring/Rothwell. 15 mins to the South is Chermside Westfield which is the exact same as North Lakes with the added bonus of quick connections to/from the city and a larger interchange. Sadly that also reflects a large portion of how our network is ran.

[SurfRail]

Public transport has massive advantages in Wellington that are impossible to match here, as well (or for instance in Canberra, which has comparable population).  The urban form is very dense and linear, whereas Brisbane is like a big stain that keeps spreading out.

[somebody]

Chris Hale has said that the peak is 72% of Citytrain and 61% of Cityrail.

So similar

I would say that makes Sydney far higher in terms of off peak trips per capita.  The peak is far higher in Sydney.  Sydney Buses areas do get a bit of off peak patronage too.

The Syd Nth shore line and Eastern Suburbs line runs through the heart of the Syd blue belt areas and the combined trains probably carry as much as CT Suburban Brisbane. The blue belt areas of Brisbane like Clayfield get 60min off-peak timetables (worse case), Eastern Suburbs and Nth shore line is 15min.

Eastern Suburbs is back to a 10 minute off peak service.  15 minutes was only 2005-2011 or so.

I definitely agree about your comments on how parking is regarded.  In the NW quite a number of people would drive in, in spite of that.

[somebody]

I definitely agree about your comments on how parking is regarded.  In the NW quite a number of people would drive in, in spite of that.

Give it 5 years or so, things may change, slowly!

Or maybe not.  It's actually faster to use an Epping via Strathfield train from Central than it is to go via Macquarie Park.  From Town Hall it is break even.

I don't think this service will be very attractive to anyone.  Far better to run the M61 every 15 minutes until midnight.