Go card fare structure - clean slate, what would you do?

[Arnz]

I suppose removing sales from ferrys and train stations would be a start and achievable now.

The only problem with that is, as one person quite rightly pointed out in that QR Facebook page debate (still going on amazingly - now nearly 1000 comments and nearly 11,000 likes), is that the AVVMs at the railway stations don't sell Adult go cards, unlike the busway versions.

There may also be stations without AVVMs, I guess, e.g. Beerburrum.

All train stations except Pomona, Cooran and Traveston has AVVMs, fyi.  Also Beerburrum has had em since the new station was built, try riding up there at one point.

[Arnz]

+1000  Pull freaking paper and get it done and dusted IMO.

Manual punch cards anyone?

Singapore style.   One-use smart cards from the AVMs with a refundable deposit at the destination bus/train station AVMs or newsagent/7-11.

[ozbob]

TransLink were always going to introduce limited life go cards, but abandoned that a few years ago now, on a cost basis ...

[somebody]

All train stations except Pomona, Cooran and Traveston has AVVMs, fyi.  Also Beerburrum has had em since the new station was built, try riding up there at one point.

No thanks.  There's nothing to see or do there.

If Beerburrum has an AVVM it isn't selling go cards according to TL.  Neither is there a ticket office or other alternative which does, which is fair enough with the patronage.

[Arnz]

If Beerburrum has an AVVM it isn't selling go cards according to TL.  Neither is there a ticket office or other alternative which does, which is fair enough with the patronage.

The funny thing is that Eumundi has a agency for selling go cards (no top-ups though), and they only have 2 rail services a day.  Although it's likely due to the 630/631s.

http://jp.translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/go-card/locations/eumundi/buy

[STB]

There's been heated debate on the Queensland Rail Facebook page overnight on price and ticketing, garnering nearly 7,000 likes and over 600 comments.  Quite a bit of it being misinformed commuters over who handles the fares and ticketing.

https://www.facebook.com/QueenslandRail/posts/472931116058587?notif_t=feed_comment_reply

This thread on the QR Facebook page seems to be dying down now at 16,542 likes and about 1,398 comments/responses. 

Putting aside the fares issues, there seems to be a large disconnect and education shortfall between the public and the transport agencies on who does what, plenty of people thinking that QR handles fares, incorrectly stating that QR is profiting from fares, Go Card use and those who refuse to buy paper tickets as they think that Go Cards are 'more expensive' due to that $5 deposit etc.  I would strongly suggest that QR/TL does an education campaign of some sort to sort out the myth from fact and allow more informed debate among the community on public transport issues in SEQ.

[somebody]

There's been heated debate on the Queensland Rail Facebook page overnight on price and ticketing, garnering nearly 7,000 likes and over 600 comments.  Quite a bit of it being misinformed commuters over who handles the fares and ticketing.

https://www.facebook.com/QueenslandRail/posts/472931116058587?notif_t=feed_comment_reply

This thread on the QR Facebook page seems to be dying down now at 16,542 likes and about 1,398 comments/responses. 

Putting aside the fares issues, there seems to be a large disconnect and education shortfall between the public and the transport agencies on who does what, plenty of people thinking that QR handles fares, incorrectly stating that QR is profiting from fares, Go Card use and those who refuse to buy paper tickets as they think that Go Cards are 'more expensive' due to that $5 deposit etc.  I would strongly suggest that QR/TL does an education campaign of some sort to sort out the myth from fact and allow more informed debate among the community on public transport issues in SEQ.

Just phase out paper.  Then you don't NEED the education.

[STB]

There's been heated debate on the Queensland Rail Facebook page overnight on price and ticketing, garnering nearly 7,000 likes and over 600 comments.  Quite a bit of it being misinformed commuters over who handles the fares and ticketing.

https://www.facebook.com/QueenslandRail/posts/472931116058587?notif_t=feed_comment_reply

This thread on the QR Facebook page seems to be dying down now at 16,542 likes and about 1,398 comments/responses. 

Putting aside the fares issues, there seems to be a large disconnect and education shortfall between the public and the transport agencies on who does what, plenty of people thinking that QR handles fares, incorrectly stating that QR is profiting from fares, Go Card use and those who refuse to buy paper tickets as they think that Go Cards are 'more expensive' due to that $5 deposit etc.  I would strongly suggest that QR/TL does an education campaign of some sort to sort out the myth from fact and allow more informed debate among the community on public transport issues in SEQ.

Just phase out paper.  Then you don't NEED the education.

I doubt that from what I've been reading on that thread.  Paper ticket or no paper ticket, people will blame who think they need to blame, and in this case it's QR, which is unfortunate.

[somebody]

Who cares?  So they blame a GOC rather than an Authority (soon to be a dept again).

[HappyTrainGuy]

This is just online. It also ends up with station, train crew and even cleaning/mtce staff coping it aswell for something that they have no control over. Going by the comments most of them are the 93% of people who don't use public transport and are just jumping on the beat up band wagon which in this case if focused on the operator - QR, they are too stupid to read the comments above them or they just don't know how to correctly use gocards/ticketing/refuse to buy gocards.  After reading some comments some of them really need to harden the f**k up. Oh you paid $10 to go from Brisbane to Gympie on concession... Ohh you pay more for paper tickets... Airtrain costs way too much. Boo-fricken-hoo.

Queensland Rail: ‎Alex - the comment immediately above yours outlines that Airtrain is a separate company, a private company which is not Queensland Rail.

Stelios Stelth Moudakis: QR is a private entity now, they can charge what they want and there's nothing anyone can do

Renee Brush: Didn't the Bligh government sell off the rail network to a private company? They can, therefore, charge what they like

Kate Fraser: ‎"comparable to other states"?! That's just not true. I live in Sydney and with a student concession I can go to Newcastle and back for $6.50! And yet WITH a Go Card I spent nearly $30 getting from the gold coast to Brisbane and back again!

[somebody]

Still, the first thing to do is phase out the outrageously priced paper tickets.

Kate Fraser: ‎"comparable to other states"?! That's just not true. I live in Sydney and with a student concession I can go to Newcastle and back for $6.50! And yet WITH a Go Card I spent nearly $30 getting from the gold coast to Brisbane and back again!

Funny.  They are comparing adult fares with concession fares.  Or something like that - Cityrail don't have a $6.50 price point.

[HappyTrainGuy]

She has to be. Concession is about $13 return and $26 return for adults on GoCards ($11/$21 off peak). Paper concession is still less than $20 return and an adult is $38 return. That's all using zones 1-16. It might be $4 difference on the Adult gocard but that $4 is still enough to get you a futher 2 zones return which is as far as you can go on Translink services without hopping onto NSW fares. With concession you're still only looking at $15 max from Brisbane to the NSW border which is half of the $30 mark. When I was there not too long ago it was about $8-10 Newcastle-Central return on concession and $16.50 for a adult return which is the closest thing to the $6.50 mark. It might be a few bucks difference but I say that's largely to do with the different fare structures/methods between Brisbane and Sydney such as mytrain, mybus, myferry and mymulti.

[somebody]

Sydney has the worst fare structure in Australia, and I suspect within the OECD only NZ is in the same league.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I love their fare system. Mybus 1 2 3, MyTrain 1 2 3 4 5, MyFerry 1 2, MyMulti 1 2 3. Concessions daily, weekly yearly, off peak, returns, singles, fortnightlies, quartlies, travelten, orange and green travelpasses, link tickets and go knows what else goes on down there. Its the missing puzzle in translinks how to p%ss off every commuter with terriable timetables, route maps, stopping locations and interchanges hahaha.

Joking aside its a mess down there. Especially for people visiting from other states, other countries, elderley or not that up to date at unjumbling the mess. Its always evident when going through the airport stations as most have no clue about what's going on or what ticket they should be purchasing.

[nathandavid88]

I love their fare system. Mybus 1 2 3, MyTrain 1 2 3 4 5, MyFerry 1 2, MyMulti 1 2 3. Concessions daily, weekly yearly, off peak, returns, singles, fortnightlies, quartlies, travelten, orange and green travelpasses, link tickets and go knows what else goes on down there. Its the missing puzzle in translinks how to p%ss off every commuter with terriable timetables, route maps, stopping locations and interchanges hahaha.

Joking aside its a mess down there. Especially for people visiting from other states, other countries, elderley or not that up to date at unjumbling the mess. Its always evident when going through the airport stations as most have no clue about what's going on or what ticket they should be purchasing.

It makes my head hurt just reading it! 

[HappyTrainGuy]

Actually, in the end its pretty simple for locals and those that have very basic and simple travel plans eg only catch the bus, only catch the train, only catch the ferry etc as it works out cheaper in some cases. It's just a mess to get your head around it at first to understand what tickets you need, if you have to swap modes and zone changes/differences between different modes (eg sections travelled on buses and distance travelled on trains) when it can simply be replaced with 1 smartcard system to cover everything or just go to all MyMulti cards to eliminate alot of the confusion. Only downside is that it wouldn't be a cheap option to rollout a smartcard system across their entire network and MyMulti are designed for those that frequently travel and interchange alot with only weekly/monthly/quartly/yearly tickets (there's a MyMulti day pass but that's a flat $21 adult ticket which has unlimited travel/transfers).

[somebody]

The part with I despise is the price differential for multi mode tickets, not to mention the periodicals priced at 8 peak trips per week.

[ozbob]

Hobart's Green Card has a daily cap, interesting approach.

Board before 9am $8.60, board after 9am $4.30.  Excellent way to handle a daily cap I reckon ..

http://www.metrotas.com.au/tickets-and-fares

[somebody]

Hobart's Green Card has a daily cap, interesting approach.

Board before 9am $8.60, board after 9am $4.30.  Excellent way to handle a daily cap I reckon ..

http://www.metrotas.com.au/tickets-and-fares

Not unlike the Perth system in which trips before 9am do not count within the daily cap system.

Almost anything is better than SYD & MEL style.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

28th August 2012

Why we need a fare review, not a cynical price cut?

Greetings,

Public transport fares have increased 65% over the past 4 years, and the Government plans further price rises of 7.5% for 2013, 2014.  These are horrendous increases, many many times CPI increases and pension/wage increases. Patronage has nose-dived as a result, and fare box revenue is sliding down.

During the State election campaign earlier this year the then Opposition Transport Minister (Mr Emerson) indicated a broader fare review moving forward ( http://www.qt.com.au/story/2012/03/09/lnp-offers-free-travel-in-ticket-price-review/ ).  When challenged on this he responded that the reduction in the fare increases of 15% as planned by the former government to 7.5% was the review. ( http://www.4bc.com.au/blogs/4bc-blog/public-transport-goes-unused/20120816-24a6a.html ) . This is nonsense, a simple price cut is not a review.  The basic flaws with the fare system remain.

South East Queensland is one of the few jurisdictions that does not have a family/group ticket. ( Call for a group/family go card ticket on the TransLink network http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8759.0 ). Many are now excluded from accessing public transport because of the high cost of travel, particularly for an adult and groups of children.

Queensland is the only state that does not offer concessional travel to all health care card holders.

The free travel after nine journeys introduced by the LNP government, is just a minor modification to the previous free travel after ten journeys brought in by the former government.  It is a non sustainable fare structure, it is leading to massive fare box leakage, it is making the base fares the highest in the land (and comparatively globally) and excluding many who are unable to rort the nine journey cap ( http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8840.msg105980#msg105980 ).  Is this satisfactory?  Of Course not.

This is how a fare review is conducted. Wellington NZ is having a review of their fare system: Have your say on the public transport fare system -->  http://www.farereview.co.nz/assets/Uploads/J0974-WRC-Fare-Systems-summary-low-res.pdf

A simple parable so that readers can understand the fundamental flaw with the present fare system.

We will sell you pineapples at $50 each, but after you buy nine you have them for free ..

But, many cannot afford pineapples at $50, so they go without.

A recent poll at Brisbanetimes was very clear on what the public thinks of the present fares.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/free-fares-not-blowing-hole-in-budget-emerson-20120731-23bdd.html#poll

Poll: Would you rather receive free fares after nine trips each week or simply have the cost of public transport reduced?

Free fares - it encourages more use 18%
Cheaper fares - it's simpler and fairer 82%
Total votes: 402

High public transport fares drive us onto roads   ( http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8954.0 ).

A proper fare review is needed.   A properly balanced fare system would encourage patronage uptake, make fares equitable for all, increase the fare box and return massive broader economic benefits.  All citizens would be encouraged to make the first journey as much as the twenty-th journey.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

References:

1. Call for urgent review of fares for public transport  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8840.msg106459#msg106459

2. Example of a better fare system  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8719.msg103604#msg103604

[somebody]

What cynical about a fare cut?  It's what we really need!

[ozbob]

What cynical about a fare cut?  It's what we really need!

Passing it off as a fare review, increases of 7.5% is not a fare cut! Simple really!

7.5% is roughly 6 times CPI, it is 75 times my DFRDB pension increase ...

Of course it is cynical in the context.

[#Metro]

'Passenger focused' or 'image and rhetoric focused' government?

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

29th August 2012

Re: Why we need a fare review, not a cynical price cut ...

Greetings,

Why is the Government and TransLink punishing the community in south east Queensland?   Fare increases for public transport on Q Connect (regional Queensland) were just CPI.

No family group tickets is hurting many.  Other jurisdictions are more enlightened, for example -

Sydney:
Family fares  http://www.cityrail.info/tickets/which/mymulti_day

When at least one fare-paying adult travels with children or grandchildren from the same family, one child travels for half fare and the other children travel free.

A family go card is an equitable and sensible outcome?  --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8759.0

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

28th August 2012

Why we need a fare review, not a cynical price cut?

Greetings,

Public transport fares have increased 65% over the past 4 years, and the Government plans further price rises of 7.5% for 2013, 2014.  These are horrendous increases, many many times CPI increases and pension/wage increases. Patronage has nose-dived as a result, and fare box revenue is sliding down.

During the State election campaign earlier this year the then Opposition Transport Minister (Mr Emerson) indicated a broader fare review moving forward ( http://www.qt.com.au/story/2012/03/09/lnp-offers-free-travel-in-ticket-price-review/ ).  When challenged on this he responded that the reduction in the fare increases of 15% as planned by the former government to 7.5% was the review. ( http://www.4bc.com.au/blogs/4bc-blog/public-transport-goes-unused/20120816-24a6a.html ) . This is nonsense, a simple price cut is not a review.  The basic flaws with the fare system remain.

South East Queensland is one of the few jurisdictions that does not have a family/group ticket. ( Call for a group/family go card ticket on the TransLink network http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8759.0 ). Many are now excluded from accessing public transport because of the high cost of travel, particularly for an adult and groups of children.

Queensland is the only state that does not offer concessional travel to all health care card holders.

The free travel after nine journeys introduced by the LNP government, is just a minor modification to the previous free travel after ten journeys brought in by the former government.  It is a non sustainable fare structure, it is leading to massive fare box leakage, it is making the base fares the highest in the land (and comparatively globally) and excluding many who are unable to rort the nine journey cap ( http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8840.msg105980#msg105980 ).  Is this satisfactory?  Of Course not.

This is how a fare review is conducted. Wellington NZ is having a review of their fare system: Have your say on the public transport fare system -->  http://www.farereview.co.nz/assets/Uploads/J0974-WRC-Fare-Systems-summary-low-res.pdf

A simple parable so that readers can understand the fundamental flaw with the present fare system.

We will sell you pineapples at $50 each, but after you buy nine you have them for free ..

But, many cannot afford pineapples at $50, so they go without.

A recent poll at Brisbanetimes was very clear on what the public thinks of the present fares.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/free-fares-not-blowing-hole-in-budget-emerson-20120731-23bdd.html#poll

Poll: Would you rather receive free fares after nine trips each week or simply have the cost of public transport reduced?

Free fares - it encourages more use 18%
Cheaper fares - it's simpler and fairer 82%
Total votes: 402

High public transport fares drive us onto roads   ( http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8954.0 ).

A proper fare review is needed.   A properly balanced fare system would encourage patronage uptake, make fares equitable for all, increase the fare box and return massive broader economic benefits.  All citizens would be encouraged to make the first journey as much as the twenty-th journey.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

References:

1. Call for urgent review of fares for public transport  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8840.msg106459#msg106459

2. Example of a better fare system  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8719.msg103604#msg103604

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

1 September 2012

Re: Why we need a fare review, not a cynical price cut ...

Greetings,

Some examples of just how far off the track the present fare system is.  A Seniors focus.

Just keep these facts at the back of your mind for the minute, whilst you digest the examples below.

   

• In Melbourne, Seniors have free travel on weekends and pay a maximum of $3.60 (daily cap) for unlimited public transport travel (  http://www.myki.com.au/About-myki/Seniors  )
• In Perth Seniors free off peak travel weekdays, free on weekends public holidays ( http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/TicketsandFares/SmartRider/BuyingSmartRider/SeniorsSmartRiders.aspx )
• In Adelaide Seniors travel free 9.01 am to 3 pm weekdays All day on weekends holidays ( http://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/ticketing/seniors-free-travel )
• In Sydney  - Pensioner Excursion Ticket $2.50 all day, trains, buses, light rail, ferries  ( http://www.cityrail.info/tickets/which/pensioner )

Here in south-east Queensland Seniors have a two paid journey cap, that is after two paid journeys in a day, they can then travel free.  Sounds good, but in reality means a lot of messing around is being done to save money.

For example, on Thursday I travelled to the Sunshine Coast for a meeting.  I used this day as an opportunity to demonstrate how to 'optimise' the two paid journey cap, I have a Seniors go card.

Rail Goodna to Caboolture - one journey completed.

Then using a second go card I travelled by bus Caboolture (zone 8) to Beerburrum (zone 10).

Back on go card used for first journey - rail Beerburrum to Nambour. Because Beerburrum is two zones different from Caboolture, normal transfer rules of less than one hour not applicable - only applies for same or adjoining zones.  Second paid journey completed at Nambour.  Free travel from that point after the hour.

my go card history

30 Aug 2012
05:17 AM    Goodna    07:16 AM    Caboolture    $ 3.58   
07:37 AM    Beerburrum    09:01 AM    Nambour    $ 3.58   
01:49 PM    Pomona    02:32 PM    Nambour    $0.00   
04:24 PM    Nambour    07:35 PM    Goodna    $0.00   


Goodna zone 5 Caboolture zone 8 - system sees this as 8 zone fare

Beerburrum zone 10 to Nambour 17 system sees this as 8 zone fare

[Cost of travel by rail bus Caboolture to Beerburrum $2.12 concession, I travelled by private vehicle Nambour to Pomona]

This is rather an elaborate strategy to achieve the two journey cap, but for pensioners does mean some significant savings.

Someone who travels say from Pomona to Brisbane for the day would pay $9.73 for the forward journey to Brisbane.  Whilst in Brisbane if they did a one zone journey during the day $1.22 cost they would then complete two paid journeys (provided separated by the hour transfer limit).  They would then travel free thereafter.  At least a saving of $8.51 for the return journey, they could do more than that for free.

But isn't this all a bit silly?  People using a second go card, or doing unnecessary one zone journeys to get to caps quicker?

Other states have sensible solutions.  Sensibility is missing in south-east Queensland fares don't you think?  LOL

Don't forget to touch off ...

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

29th August 2012

Re: Why we need a fare review, not a cynical price cut ...

Greetings,

Why is the Government and TransLink punishing the community in south east Queensland?   Fare increases for public transport on Q Connect (regional Queensland) were just CPI.

No family group tickets is hurting many.  Other jurisdictions are more enlightened, for example -

Sydney:
Family fares  http://www.cityrail.info/tickets/which/mymulti_day

When at least one fare-paying adult travels with children or grandchildren from the same family, one child travels for half fare and the other children travel free.

A family go card is an equitable and sensible outcome?  --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8759.0

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

28th August 2012

Why we need a fare review, not a cynical price cut?

Greetings,

Public transport fares have increased 65% over the past 4 years, and the Government plans further price rises of 7.5% for 2013, 2014.  These are horrendous increases, many many times CPI increases and pension/wage increases. Patronage has nose-dived as a result, and fare box revenue is sliding down.

During the State election campaign earlier this year the then Opposition Transport Minister (Mr Emerson) indicated a broader fare review moving forward ( http://www.qt.com.au/story/2012/03/09/lnp-offers-free-travel-in-ticket-price-review/ ).  When challenged on this he responded that the reduction in the fare increases of 15% as planned by the former government to 7.5% was the review. ( http://www.4bc.com.au/blogs/4bc-blog/public-transport-goes-unused/20120816-24a6a.html ) . This is nonsense, a simple price cut is not a review.  The basic flaws with the fare system remain.

South East Queensland is one of the few jurisdictions that does not have a family/group ticket. ( Call for a group/family go card ticket on the TransLink network http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8759.0 ). Many are now excluded from accessing public transport because of the high cost of travel, particularly for an adult and groups of children.

Queensland is the only state that does not offer concessional travel to all health care card holders.

The free travel after nine journeys introduced by the LNP government, is just a minor modification to the previous free travel after ten journeys brought in by the former government.  It is a non sustainable fare structure, it is leading to massive fare box leakage, it is making the base fares the highest in the land (and comparatively globally) and excluding many who are unable to rort the nine journey cap ( http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8840.msg105980#msg105980 ).  Is this satisfactory?  Of Course not.

This is how a fare review is conducted. Wellington NZ is having a review of their fare system: Have your say on the public transport fare system -->  http://www.farereview.co.nz/assets/Uploads/J0974-WRC-Fare-Systems-summary-low-res.pdf

A simple parable so that readers can understand the fundamental flaw with the present fare system.

We will sell you pineapples at $50 each, but after you buy nine you have them for free ..

But, many cannot afford pineapples at $50, so they go without.

A recent poll at Brisbanetimes was very clear on what the public thinks of the present fares.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/free-fares-not-blowing-hole-in-budget-emerson-20120731-23bdd.html#poll

Poll: Would you rather receive free fares after nine trips each week or simply have the cost of public transport reduced?

Free fares - it encourages more use 18%
Cheaper fares - it's simpler and fairer 82%
Total votes: 402

High public transport fares drive us onto roads   ( http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8954.0 ).

A proper fare review is needed.   A properly balanced fare system would encourage patronage uptake, make fares equitable for all, increase the fare box and return massive broader economic benefits.  All citizens would be encouraged to make the first journey as much as the twenty-th journey.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

References:

1. Call for urgent review of fares for public transport  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8840.msg106459#msg106459

2. Example of a better fare system  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8719.msg103604#msg103604

[somebody]

The Sydney $2.50/day Pensioner Excursion Ticket is a very cynical vote grab to a block of voters who do seem to have a lot of political clout.

[ozbob]

The Sydney $2.50/day Pensioner Excursion Ticket is a very cynical vote grab to a block of voters who do seem to have a lot of political clout.

Increasing political clout ...

--> FEATURE ARTICLE: POPULATION BY AGE AND SEX, AUSTRALIAN STATES AND TERRITORIES

[somebody]

Quite.

[Gazza]

The Sydney $2.50/day Pensioner Excursion Ticket is a very cynical vote grab to a block of voters who do seem to have a lot of political clout.

Agreed.
You know pensioners in NSW have trouble getting a hip replacement?
But giving them $2.50 rides to Newcastle is somehow helping them?

Bad policy.

I think the bit I dislike most is the fact heaps of people in other parts of Aus (And on QR Facebook discussion pages) now say "OMG $2.50 pensioner fares are awesum!!!1111! We should have them too!!11!!1 Why don't we have them???

I think people are a little too emotionally attached to the good old days when you used to give the bus driver a 50c piece, and that was that.
Which explains why people get off over correspondingly cheap, rounded number fares (like $2.50) , or we see the occasional suggestion like "It should be the one zone You should be able to go anywhere in SEQ for $2!!!!!"
Like inflation over time is an alien concept to them or something.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

2nd September 2012

Re: Why we need a fare review, not a cynical price cut ...

Greetings,

Let us examine how fare box leakage occurs with the present fare system.

An example:

A person who commutes between Varsity Lakes (zone 16) and Central station daily for work.

Adult peak go card fare is $12.84.  The cost for the normal 5 day week is therefore $12.84 x 9 = $115.56, with the 9 journey cap their journey home on Friday is free.

If the person does a lunch time one zone journey on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday (off peak $2.44 one zone fare) they have then completed 9 paid journeys when they return to Varsity Lakes on Wednesday.

Their cost of travel for the week is ($12.84 x 6) + ($2.44 x 3) = $84.36 (compared to $115.56 without 'optimisation').

The person can then travel free for Thursday, Friday and the weekend, unlimited.

Over a 48 week working year the savings equate to $1497.60, this is fare box leakage.

As users become more adept at 'optimising' this fare system the leakage will be massive.  It in turn forces up the base fares making public transport very inaccessible for many who are not able to 'optimise', that is don't achieve 9 paid journeys.

Is this a fair fare system?  No, it is not. The present fare system needs review.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

1 September 2012

Re: Why we need a fare review, not a cynical price cut ...

Greetings,

Some examples of just how far off the track the present fare system is.  A Seniors focus.

Just keep these facts at the back of your mind for the minute, whilst you digest the examples below.

   

• In Melbourne, Seniors have free travel on weekends and pay a maximum of $3.60 (daily cap) for unlimited public transport travel (  http://www.myki.com.au/About-myki/Seniors  )
• In Perth Seniors free off peak travel weekdays, free on weekends public holidays ( http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/TicketsandFares/SmartRider/BuyingSmartRider/SeniorsSmartRiders.aspx )
• In Adelaide Seniors travel free 9.01 am to 3 pm weekdays All day on weekends holidays ( http://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/ticketing/seniors-free-travel )
• In Sydney  - Pensioner Excursion Ticket $2.50 all day, trains, buses, light rail, ferries  ( http://www.cityrail.info/tickets/which/pensioner )

Here in south-east Queensland Seniors have a two paid journey cap, that is after two paid journeys in a day, they can then travel free.  Sounds good, but in reality means a lot of messing around is being done to save money.

For example, on Thursday I travelled to the Sunshine Coast for a meeting.  I used this day as an opportunity to demonstrate how to 'optimise' the two paid journey cap, I have a Seniors go card.

Rail Goodna to Caboolture - one journey completed.

Then using a second go card I travelled by bus Caboolture (zone 8) to Beerburrum (zone 10).

Back on go card used for first journey - rail Beerburrum to Nambour. Because Beerburrum is two zones different from Caboolture, normal transfer rules of less than one hour not applicable - only applies for same or adjoining zones.  Second paid journey completed at Nambour.  Free travel from that point after the hour.

my go card history

30 Aug 2012
05:17 AM    Goodna    07:16 AM    Caboolture    $ 3.58   
07:37 AM    Beerburrum    09:01 AM    Nambour    $ 3.58   
01:49 PM    Pomona    02:32 PM    Nambour    $0.00   
04:24 PM    Nambour    07:35 PM    Goodna    $0.00   


Goodna zone 5 Caboolture zone 8 - system sees this as 8 zone fare

Beerburrum zone 10 to Nambour 17 system sees this as 8 zone fare

[Cost of travel by rail bus Caboolture to Beerburrum $2.12 concession, I travelled by private vehicle Nambour to Pomona]

This is rather an elaborate strategy to achieve the two journey cap, but for pensioners does mean some significant savings.

Someone who travels say from Pomona to Brisbane for the day would pay $9.73 for the forward journey to Brisbane.  Whilst in Brisbane if they did a one zone journey during the day $1.22 cost they would then complete two paid journeys (provided separated by the hour transfer limit).  They would then travel free thereafter.  At least a saving of $8.51 for the return journey, they could do more than that for free.

But isn't this all a bit silly?  People using a second go card, or doing unnecessary one zone journeys to get to caps quicker?

Other states have sensible solutions.  Sensibility is missing in south-east Queensland fares don't you think?  LOL

Don't forget to touch off ...

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

29th August 2012

Re: Why we need a fare review, not a cynical price cut ...

Greetings,

Why is the Government and TransLink punishing the community in south east Queensland?   Fare increases for public transport on Q Connect (regional Queensland) were just CPI.

No family group tickets is hurting many.  Other jurisdictions are more enlightened, for example -

Sydney:
Family fares  http://www.cityrail.info/tickets/which/mymulti_day

When at least one fare-paying adult travels with children or grandchildren from the same family, one child travels for half fare and the other children travel free.

A family go card is an equitable and sensible outcome?  --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8759.0

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

28th August 2012

Why we need a fare review, not a cynical price cut?

Greetings,

Public transport fares have increased 65% over the past 4 years, and the Government plans further price rises of 7.5% for 2013, 2014.  These are horrendous increases, many many times CPI increases and pension/wage increases. Patronage has nose-dived as a result, and fare box revenue is sliding down.

During the State election campaign earlier this year the then Opposition Transport Minister (Mr Emerson) indicated a broader fare review moving forward ( http://www.qt.com.au/story/2012/03/09/lnp-offers-free-travel-in-ticket-price-review/ ).  When challenged on this he responded that the reduction in the fare increases of 15% as planned by the former government to 7.5% was the review. ( http://www.4bc.com.au/blogs/4bc-blog/public-transport-goes-unused/20120816-24a6a.html ) . This is nonsense, a simple price cut is not a review.  The basic flaws with the fare system remain.

South East Queensland is one of the few jurisdictions that does not have a family/group ticket. ( Call for a group/family go card ticket on the TransLink network http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8759.0 ). Many are now excluded from accessing public transport because of the high cost of travel, particularly for an adult and groups of children.

Queensland is the only state that does not offer concessional travel to all health care card holders.

The free travel after nine journeys introduced by the LNP government, is just a minor modification to the previous free travel after ten journeys brought in by the former government.  It is a non sustainable fare structure, it is leading to massive fare box leakage, it is making the base fares the highest in the land (and comparatively globally) and excluding many who are unable to rort the nine journey cap ( http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8840.msg105980#msg105980 ).  Is this satisfactory?  Of Course not.

This is how a fare review is conducted. Wellington NZ is having a review of their fare system: Have your say on the public transport fare system -->  http://www.farereview.co.nz/assets/Uploads/J0974-WRC-Fare-Systems-summary-low-res.pdf

A simple parable so that readers can understand the fundamental flaw with the present fare system.

We will sell you pineapples at $50 each, but after you buy nine you have them for free ..

But, many cannot afford pineapples at $50, so they go without.

A recent poll at Brisbanetimes was very clear on what the public thinks of the present fares.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/free-fares-not-blowing-hole-in-budget-emerson-20120731-23bdd.html#poll

Poll: Would you rather receive free fares after nine trips each week or simply have the cost of public transport reduced?

Free fares - it encourages more use 18%
Cheaper fares - it's simpler and fairer 82%
Total votes: 402

High public transport fares drive us onto roads   ( http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8954.0 ).

A proper fare review is needed.   A properly balanced fare system would encourage patronage uptake, make fares equitable for all, increase the fare box and return massive broader economic benefits.  All citizens would be encouraged to make the first journey as much as the twenty-th journey.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

References:

1. Call for urgent review of fares for public transport  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8840.msg106459#msg106459

2. Example of a better fare system  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8719.msg103604#msg103604

[Gazza]

Werent we previously promoting that people do lunchtime trips?

What changed?

[ozbob]

It was mentioned as an option.  Nothing has changed in that sense.  What has is public opinion, folks are realising that a more balanced equitable fare system is desirable.

It is clear that with the further fare increases the leakage is going to be a major problem.  There was a private acknowledgement to me last week that fare box leakage is an issue.  That is all I can say at this time.

There will have to be some offsets with the planned fare increases I expect.  If you recall the CRR Review did highlight off peak fare discounts.

But the fundamental issues remain.  With 50% after x journeys there was still a fare box even if 'optimised', now nothing. The data will be interesting (if made available).

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> 'Severe financial hardship' hits thousands on welfare

[ozbob]

From the budget papers

It is a gross underestimation of the cost of the fare box leakage.

It is already running at around $24 million per year and I expect it to reach $30 million p.a equivalent by the end of September.

Delusional ..

http://www.budget.qld.gov.au/budget-papers/2012-13/bp4-2-2012-13.pdf  page 53

The Government will provide increased funding of $39 million over four years to
allow passengers free travel on the TransLink network after nine journeys in a
Monday to Sunday week. This initiative took effect from 25 June 2012.

Discounted Weekly Fares - Nine Journeys

2012/13 8,946 2013/14 9,629 2014/15 10,084 2015/16 10,349

The costings for the Ferny Grove frequency increase are also inaccurate.

If they commence in October that is around 8 months.  The following year 12 months is costed the same ... dodgy ...

http://www.budget.qld.gov.au/budget-papers/2012-13/bp4-2-2012-13.pdf  page 53

The Government will provide additional funding of $18 million over two years to
trial doubling Monday to Friday off peak services on the Ferny Grove line by
running a train every 15 minutes instead of every 30 minutes.

[ozbob]

The Minister and the Government are off the rails.

The Minister acknowledges the cost at $2 million per month, ( http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8840.msg107188#msg107188 ) and then they put out gross underestimates.  We didn't come down in the last shower like many ...

[somebody]

What would be the political implications of having a structure with a 50% FUD after 8 journeys?

I'm inclined to think that any removal of the 100% FUD would be deemed a broken promise.

[ozbob]

What would be the political implications of having a structure with a 50% FUD after 8 journeys?

I'm inclined to think that any removal of the 100% FUD would be deemed a broken promise.

Sometimes in life you have to do what is right, not what is thought of as ' popular ' ... 

[SurfRail]

What would be the political implications of having a structure with a 50% FUD after 8 journeys?

I'm inclined to think that any removal of the 100% FUD would be deemed a broken promise.

Sometimes in life you have to do what is right, not what is thought of as ' popular ' ...

Life, not politics... 

[ozbob]

Understand ' rubbery ' budget figures re go card free travel after nine has been raised in Parliament this afternoon by Opposition Transport Spokesperson Ms Trad.

[ozbob]

Understand ' rubbery ' budget figures re go card free travel after nine has been raised in Parliament this afternoon by Opposition Transport Spokesperson Ms Trad.

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/hansard/2012/2012_09_14_DAILY.pdf
page 54

We have already seen some pretty dodgy figures about the Department of Transport and Main Roads reported in the Courier-Mail. I want to bring to the attention of the House another example of the lazy accounting from the lazy Treasurer used in this budget. I am referring to the policy of free travel on
the TransLink network after nine trips in a Monday to Sunday week. The LNP projected in Budget Paper that this policy will cost $8.4 million this financial year, $9.6 million next financial year and approximately $10 million in the two years after that. When I saw the figures, I thought they looked remarkably familiar; in fact, they were copied and pasted exactly from the LNP's pre-election policy.

I note that, when the LNP made this election policy, Labor's policy of free travel after 10 journeys was already in place and was costing taxpayers $6.7 million a year. In the ultimate exercise in lazy policy making, the LNP just shifted the goalpost and proposed free travel after nine trips in a week. They told us all that it would only cost an additional $9 million a year on top of the current $6.7 million, but the
figures so far just do not stack up. Between when the policy was introduced in June and August, thepolicy had already cost $3 million—that is $428,000 a week. It does not add up.