Terms of use Privacy About us Media Contact

Author Topic: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%  (Read 4904 times)

Online ozbob

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 100194
    • RAIL Back On Track
Discussion on this interim solution.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  Twitter

Offline Fares_Fair

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5049
  • Duplicate the Sunshine Coast Line (#2tracks)
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2012, 03:03:03 PM »
Is this for shorter trips/journeys only, or will Gold Coast, Ipswich and Sunshine Coast commuters be expected to stand for up to 2 hours ?
Regards,
Fares_Fair


somebody

  • Guest
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2012, 03:07:26 PM »
Dead against it.  It would be a retrograde step for CAB, IPS, NBR and VL trains.  I guess it might be a positive for Ferny Grove and Shorncliffe, but I don't see too many other benefits.

It would make far more sense to increase the 20 minute standing rule to (let's say) 25 minutes, allowing Gold Coast trains to at least pick up/drop off at Coopers Plains, Cleveland expresses to utilise standing passengers to Morningside, Petrie trains a bit beyond Northgate, Ipswich peak to Wacol.


Online ozbob

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 100194
    • RAIL Back On Track
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2012, 03:33:53 PM »
I think this will mean a few seats removed near the doors, as for EMU 06.

I don't think they will touch the IMUs.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  Twitter

somebody

  • Guest
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2012, 04:25:17 PM »
I don't think they will touch the IMUs.
I don't think that matters.  They haven't been able to prevent even EMUs reaching the Gold Coast so far.

Offline SurfRail

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8306
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2012, 04:58:06 PM »
This will really only work if they can get a second TSD and isolate the fleet between the 2.

I wonder if they considered adding a third door per carriage?  Likely a very expensive task to do - involves around 1,200 new doors and sets of door mechanisms, cutting into steel, reconfiguring interiors etc.  Probably leave all the IMUs and the SMU 260s as they are (and the ICEs, goes without saying), so it would only be EMUs and 200/220 SMUs and therefore largely isolated to the suburban network.  However, I expect dwell times could really be cut with such a move.
Ride the G:

somebody

  • Guest
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2012, 05:14:17 PM »
This will really only work if they can get a second TSD and isolate the fleet between the 2.

I wonder if they considered adding a third door per carriage?  Likely a very expensive task to do - involves around 1,200 new doors and sets of door mechanisms, cutting into steel, reconfiguring interiors etc.  Probably leave all the IMUs and the SMU 260s as they are (and the ICEs, goes without saying), so it would only be EMUs and 200/220 SMUs and therefore largely isolated to the suburban network.  However, I expect dwell times could really be cut with such a move.
Would be more sensible for the NGR.  But I thought it had been announced that was to be 2 doors/carriage/side.  I guess a new government might be able to change this.

Offline HappyTrainGuy

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5098
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2012, 05:23:15 PM »
Nope. No new doors would be installed on the trains due to the trains design (structuraly, components, ac ducting, cabs etc). Basically the whole train/generation fleet would have to be rebuilt from scratch. EMUs especially. SMU200s still have the door light panels (a drawing with lights indicated for each door/ac with a maximum consist of 6 cars) above the drivers head. The reason for NGR was to phase out the EMUs so they wouldn't be subject to any rebuilds.

Offline Golliwog

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5043
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2012, 12:24:43 AM »
I think this will mean a few seats removed near the doors, as for EMU 06.

I don't think they will touch the IMUs.
EMU 06 is the one where they pulled out the parallel seating adjacent to the doors right? I support that sort of thing, even if they do end up on the longer runs. I might go so far as to suggest that they could look at removing all the seating between the last door and the guards cabin.
There is no silver bullet… but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Offline SurfRail

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8306
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2012, 06:09:50 AM »
Nope. No new doors would be installed on the trains due to the trains design (structuraly, components, ac ducting, cabs etc). Basically the whole train/generation fleet would have to be rebuilt from scratch. EMUs especially. SMU200s still have the door light panels (a drawing with lights indicated for each door/ac with a maximum consist of 6 cars) above the drivers head. The reason for NGR was to phase out the EMUs so they wouldn't be subject to any rebuilds.

Suspected as much.

I believe Perth was looking at this as an option for the B-sets.
Ride the G:

Offline Gazza

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5875
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2012, 06:31:35 PM »
Support this move.
It's good future proofing for the networks rolling stock anyway.

Don't do it to the IMUs though (plus it wouldn't make a difference with so few standees anyway)

Offline Fares_Fair

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5049
  • Duplicate the Sunshine Coast Line (#2tracks)
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2012, 09:31:47 PM »
ICE Trains.

Any news on what is happening with the ICE trains, they have been missing in action (MIA) for a number of weeks now.

Rumour has it that they are being refurbished, but for reasons unknown aside from the fact that they badly needed it and the doors were a constant issue.
Perhaps it is to install Wi-Fi?
Perhaps it is tied to the tilt-train incident when a door was opened and a child fell out of a train?

Anybody know?
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Offline Arnz

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2467
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2012, 09:58:42 PM »
The ICEs iirc require constant maintenance (some random guard's words - not mine).

IIRC I'm not sure which out of MichaelJ or Petey3801 had said it, but the ICEs are the only units not getting the comms upgrades (eg PIDS, new destos, and communications systems) so with that I'm willing to guess that they won't be getting Wi-Fi either (assuming the Wi-Fi remains only with the new units).
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

Offline HappyTrainGuy

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5098
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2012, 10:51:34 PM »
Child fell out of the Sunlander where the doors are left unlocked. They lock by themselves when they close as a child safety device so to say but anyone can push in the button and then turn the handle to open the door where as ICE/TT doors are still only able to be opened from the cabs unless the big red button is pressed.

One ICE set was sent up north for driver training but I think it might have returned. 2 power pairs are still operational and ready to go but the others lack a partner due to a couple on going gremlins.

somebody

  • Guest
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2012, 07:26:42 AM »
Child fell out of the Sunlander where the doors are left unlocked. They lock by themselves when they close as a child safety device so to say but anyone can push in the button and then turn the handle to open the door where as ICE/TT doors are still only able to be opened from the cabs unless the big red button is pressed.

One ICE set was sent up north for driver training but I think it might have returned. 2 power pairs are still operational and ready to go but the others lack a partner due to a couple on going gremlins.
Which is interesting because NSW V Sets, nothing stops someone from opening a door where the platform is too short and walking out onto nothing.  AIUI, it's never happened.

Online ozbob

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 100194
    • RAIL Back On Track
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2012, 07:58:37 AM »
Discussion on 4BC Breakfast radio this morning about possible seat removal.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  Twitter

Online ozbob

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 100194
    • RAIL Back On Track
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2012, 12:14:54 PM »
Radio 4BC click here!

Bombay Express?

Quote
Bombay Express?
Posted by: 4bc.com.au | 29 August, 2012 - 10:52 AM
Public transport fare rises of 15 per cent a year have put patronage at a four-year low

Trains from the Gold Coast are already crammed, and there are plans to remove seats to create more room! So will this worsen the “Bombay Express”? Mark and Victoria from 4BC Breakfast ask Robert Dow from Rail Back on Track.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  Twitter

Offline Fares_Fair

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5049
  • Duplicate the Sunshine Coast Line (#2tracks)
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2012, 12:42:42 PM »
Great interview by Robert.

Interview primarily about Gold Coast line.
Sunshine Coast gets a very good mention also.

Thanks Robert and 4BC (Mark and Victoria).
Good work.
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Offline BrizCommuter

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3412
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2012, 06:53:56 PM »
More handholds would increase capacity without removing seats. SE Queensland "full" standing densities are very low compared to other suburban rail systems due to lack of things to hold onto.

Offline HappyTrainGuy

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5098
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2012, 11:02:24 PM »
More handholds would increase capacity without removing seats. SE Queensland "full" standing densities are very low compared to other suburban rail systems due to lack of things to hold onto.

Problem is how to go about installing them. The handles from the roof (similar to middle sections of some rollingstock/the doors) aren't a popular item to have going along the length of the carriage due to people playing around with them (how do you think they brake/go missing and become frayed - usually draws the attention of people on the morning/night drunk trains to/from the valley) and some people having actually used them in the past to try and kick out the windows (IIRC maybe Melbourne? removed/modified theirs after similar situations kept on happening. I think it might have been the Hitachis or the Siemens sets?). Vertical bars from the seats to the roof might help but in peak hour it could be a bit of a squeeze if you're in the big department or have a large bag (really only works on the seats that face each other).
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 11:09:03 PM by HappyTrainGuy »

Offline Gazza

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5875
Re: Seat reconfiguration to increase capacity by approximately 5%
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2012, 11:11:55 PM »
I think vertical bars would work well if you just zigzaged them in postion (left on one row, right on the next) That would avoid the narrow squeeze.

Another idea could be to change the handholds such that they are uncomfortable to hang off...Check out the handholds on the warratah trains for instance.

 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 


“You can't understand a city without using its public transportation system.” -- Erol Ozan