15 minute frequency, we are dreaming folks ...

[ozbob]

I was contacted by the QT and told that Mr Scales had indicated that there would be no frequency increases outside of Ferny Grove.

My response was that this is not going to carry with the electorate, and as in interim measure approaches such as moving to 20 minutes might be more achievable as transition.  This is what happened in Melbourne for example.

At least we know where we stand.  Nothing.  Obviously no plans for decent frequency Springfield either.  Phase 2 consultation seems more myth than reality.

Compromise in many things is necessary.  Apart from the Ferny Grove pork barrel everyone else can go leap it seems.  Somehow I don't think we should accept that, and come up with strategies to enable interim progressive changes.  20 minutes CAB - IPS.  20 minute Springfield would work for example.

From the Queensland Times 22nd June 2012 page 17

Locals to miss off-peak trains

[SurfRail]

Just how thick are the people holding the strings?

[ozbob]

Editorial Queensland Times 22nd June 2012  page 8

Public transport priority despite state's finances

[ozbob]

Just how thick are the people holding the strings?

Very obviously ...

[somebody]

How would 20 minute frequency work?  All stops to Ipswich or limited?  The latter means a service reduction at stations not served by the limited.

To be honest, I am far more concerned with getting the Ferny Grove line's 15 minute frequency for evenings and weekends.  A daytime only upgrade means worst possible bang/buck IMO.

[somebody]

http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7243.0

[ozbob]

The 20min Timetable --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7619.0

Even if they stepped up Springfield to 20 minutes to start with would be better than nothing.

I think the chances of getting the 15 minutes on the Ferny Grove extended are zero as well.

We are just going to have to keep plugging away.

[ozbob]

SEQ rail system is the result of longish neglect, an operator that has failed to convince the bureaucracy of the need to form rails proper place in the public transport network, and governments that are just inept, incompetent and focussed on pork.

You know, I am starting to think that a franchise operation can be no worse than the present circus.  At least Metro Melbourne (MTR) is driving improvement.

CityRail is the same, too little too late.  TransPerth have at least appreciated the need to run the railway frequently.

[O_128]

So a gov that wants to cut waste is spending hundreds of millions on a rail line to be used by 2 trains an hour... Makes sense

[somebody]

With Ferny Grove going to 15 minute frequency, it is clear that 20 minute is not an option for Cleveland or the Gold Coast.  Doing it for Shorncliffe would require those trains to use the mains, which is very unlikely.

[O_128]

I was contacted by the QT and told that Mr Scales had indicated that there would be no frequency increases outside of Ferny Grove.

[ozbob]

LOL

[somebody]

CityRail is the same, too little too late.  TransPerth have at least appreciated the need to run the railway frequently.

Cityrail actually managed to permanently reduce frequency in the mid 2000s thanks to a drivers shortage.  This surely helped to increase traffic congestion and increase the push to get rid of the government.

[ozbob]

It will be interesting watching the wider community backlash to the Ferny Grove pork barrel, won't it?

[SurfRail]

To be honest, I'm not sold on 20 minute frequency.  They have just implemented a massive timetable change a year ago based entirely around 3 minute intervals, which is intended to make the system easier to populate with trains when available. 

15 minutes 6am-9pm minimum - both directions - is an entirely practical and reasonable thing to be demanding for every line except Rosewood, outer Beenleigh/Gold Coast and north of Caboolture.  Yes - even Doomben.  It can be done.

[ozbob]

Either am I, but the reality is that nothing is going to happen anyway I guess. 

But if you ask the punters along the line.  They would be a lot happier with 3 trains an hour than 2. 

4 trains an hour is not going to happen.  So I guess we can all be happy with the mediocre frequencies for ever more.

Other states can do it.  Obviously all too hard in Queensland.

[ozbob]

They have just implemented a massive timetable change a year ago based entirely around 3 minute intervals, which is intended to make the system easier to populate with trains when available.

At peak, doesn't matter outside peak what they do.

[ozbob]

At the last CRG and more recently I have been told by Queensland Rail staff that they cannot implement 15 minute frequencies due to infrastructure constraints, freight requirements, crew and rolling stock issues.  Which just corroborates what Mr Scales CEO TransLink is saying as well.  Whether you believe that or not, that is as they see it.

[#Metro]

Compromise in many things is necessary.  Apart from the Ferny Grove pork barrel everyone else can go leap it seems.  Somehow I don't think we should accept that, and come up with strategies to enable interim progressive changes.  20 minutes CAB - IPS.  20 minute Springfield would work for example.

I want everyone to remember that we were promised during the LNP Campaign. Print to PDF and download all the election material on this site before they wipe it --->

The word COMMMIT is there, so they've got to do it. Don't let them pull a bait and switch, whatever the excuse is! I voted for decent PT and I damn well expect to get it!

LNP Policy Commitments:

• $18 million to double daytime off-peak services on the Ferny Grove line on weekdays

• If this two year trial is successful expand to other lines

• Deliver a public transport system that is reliable, frequent, safe and affordable for passengers

• Provide real fare relief for regular commuters by reintroducing discounted weekly fares on go cards


http://lnp.org.au/news/transport/fares-up-services-down-under-labor
http://lnp.org.au/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&task=download&id=89
http://lnp.org.au/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&task=download&id=90

[ozbob]

Was Campbell Newman properly briefed?

(cryptic, but if you are observing the news you will get the drift ...)

Their policy commitments are worthless.

[#Metro]

At the last CRG and more recently I have been told by Queensland Rail staff that they cannot implement 15 minute frequencies due to infrastructure constraints, freight requirements, crew and rolling stock issues.  Which just corroborates what Mr Scales CEO TransLink is saying as well.  Whether you believe that or not, that is as they see it.

Yawn. Had a read of Paul Mee's Transport for Suburbia book - the section in there on Brisbane. SAME OLD REASONS AS ~ 20 YEARS AGO. Are we still going to be listening to this in 20 years time? Or do we all have to move to Perth? What an embarrassment it is that Perth is now overtaking us in terms of patronage.

I don't (at the moment) support a move to 20 minute frequencies. All that will do is cost heaps more but not be frequent enough to gain decent patronage. It is too dilute to be useful.

I would suggest 15 minute frequencies on the Ipswich line - I don't care how it is really done, pick whatever stopping pattern you want, but just get 4tph to Ipswich - at the BARE MINIMUM. Everything else, bar Ferny Grove should have no further improvement. That will at least get the core section that has the best chance of high patronage for the highest number of people DONE.

The Ipswich Line has the geography for Frequent Service - there are cities at either end, there are two main centres (indooroopilly and toowong) in the middle plus a university and hospital (Wesley) and the area has high density around Milton/Auchenflower/Toowoong/Indooroopilly.

[somebody]

I think 20 minute frequency on the Ipswich + Richlands lines is a significantly less good outcome than 15 minute to Richlands and 30 minute to Ipswich express. (Milton/Toowong/Indro/Darra)

[somebody]

LNP Policy Commitments:
...
• If this two year trial is successful expand to other lines
http://lnp.org.au/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&task=download&id=89

Great point!

Do we have to take this on the chin or should we point out the broken promise?

[Stillwater]

The wording of a government report in two years time:

"While extension to 15-minute frequency during the daytime peaks on the Ferny Grove Line has resulted in better patronage for that line, it is not considered appropriate to extend the trial to other lines on the network at this stage.  This is due to a number of factors, including conflicting freight train movements on the main line and capacity constraints on the Cleveland and Gold Coast lines.  The government remains fully committed to 15-minute frequency across the network, but believes the timetable for its implementation should be re-phased closer to the completion date for CRR-lite, discussions with developers about PT access to Hamilton North Shore and property interests developing the Springfield satellite city on Brisbane's south-west outskirts.'  Fifteen-minute frequency, therefore, becomes a prime government objective to be brought about thoughtfully, strategically and in the fullness of time."

[ozbob]

I think 20 minute frequency on the Ipswich + Richlands lines is a significantly less good outcome than 15 minute to Richlands and 30 minute to Ipswich express. (Milton/Toowong/Indro/Darra)

Suggest you catch a train to Richlands and to Ipswich during the day.  Ipswich carries 10 times the pax easily ...

It is idiotic to suggest 15 minutes on Richlands for a mediocre pax load when the bulk pax is on the Ipswich line.  Money needs to be spent on services with best community benefit, not whims.

[somebody]

I think 20 minute frequency on the Ipswich + Richlands lines is a significantly less good outcome than 15 minute to Richlands and 30 minute to Ipswich express. (Milton/Toowong/Indro/Darra)

Suggest you catch a train to Richlands and to Ipswich during the day.  Ipswich carries 10 times the pax easily ...

It is idiotic to suggest 15 minutes on Richlands for a mediocre pax load when the bulk pax is on the Ipswich line.  Money needs to be spent on services with best community benefit, not whims.

It's more about removing Oxley-Chelmer+Taringa+Auchenflower from the Ipswich stopping patterns than pax loads at Richlands.

[Jonno]

Both major parties see public transport as a community service because anyone who can afford it (and most will even if it means giving up feeding the kids) will drive and not bee seen dead on public transport. 

MUST BUILD ROADS MUST BUILD TINNELS MUST BUILD CAR PARKING MUST SOLVE CONGESTION AFTER 40 YEARS OF TRYING MUST HAVE 90% OF TRIPS BY THE LEAST EFFICIENT MODE OF TRANSPORT (AKA THE MOTOR CAR) BECAUSE THAT IS A SIGN OF A PROSPEROUS AND ADVANCED SOCIETY!!!

But it is the carbon tax that is making rates go up not the futile construction of more freeways and tunnels at $150M per km.  Couldn't be that!!!

[ozbob]

LNP Policy Commitments:
...
• If this two year trial is successful expand to other lines
http://lnp.org.au/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&task=download&id=89

Great point!

Do we have to take this on the chin or should we point out the broken promise?

They haven't broken it yet.  Mr Scales is quoted as saying that " unlikely to be extended " ...

[somebody]

Technically true.

They've just announced intention to probably break it.

[ozbob]

I think 20 minute frequency on the Ipswich + Richlands lines is a significantly less good outcome than 15 minute to Richlands and 30 minute to Ipswich express. (Milton/Toowong/Indro/Darra)

Suggest you catch a train to Richlands and to Ipswich during the day.  Ipswich carries 10 times the pax easily ...

It is idiotic to suggest 15 minutes on Richlands for a mediocre pax load when the bulk pax is on the Ipswich line.  Money needs to be spent on services with best community benefit, not whims.

It's more about removing Oxley-Chelmer+Taringa+Auchenflower from the Ipswich stopping patterns than pax loads at Richlands.

Have a look at the timetable for Richlands.  It is set up for Springfield already, 30 minute frequency. 

[justanotheruser]

Compromise in many things is necessary.  Apart from the Ferny Grove pork barrel everyone else can go leap it seems.  Somehow I don't think we should accept that, and come up with strategies to enable interim progressive changes.  20 minutes CAB - IPS.  20 minute Springfield would work for example.

I want everyone to remember that we were promised during the LNP Campaign. Print to PDF and download all the election material on this site before they wipe it --->

The word COMMMIT is there, so they've got to do it. Don't let them pull a bait and switch, whatever the excuse is! I voted for decent PT and I damn well expect to get it!

LNP Policy Commitments:

• $18 million to double daytime off-peak services on the Ferny Grove line on weekdays

• If this two year trial is successful expand to other lines

• Deliver a public transport system that is reliable, frequent, safe and affordable for passengers

• Provide real fare relief for regular commuters by reintroducing discounted weekly fares on go cards


http://lnp.org.au/news/transport/fares-up-services-down-under-labor
http://lnp.org.au/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&task=download&id=89
http://lnp.org.au/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&task=download&id=90

Except they can always fall back on one of their other election commitments which is to not follow through on promises if finances are not good enough. they wrote themselves a get out of jail free card and people were happy to let them.

So they aren't breaking a promise if they don't do anything because there was conditions on that promise.

[O_128]

I think 20 minute frequency on the Ipswich + Richlands lines is a significantly less good outcome than 15 minute to Richlands and 30 minute to Ipswich express. (Milton/Toowong/Indro/Darra)

Suggest you catch a train to Richlands and to Ipswich during the day.  Ipswich carries 10 times the pax easily ...

It is idiotic to suggest 15 minutes on Richlands for a mediocre pax load when the bulk pax is on the Ipswich line.  Money needs to be spent on services with best community benefit, not whims.

It's more about removing Oxley-Chelmer+Taringa+Auchenflower from the Ipswich stopping patterns than pax loads at Richlands.

Have a look at the timetable for Richlands.  It is set up for Springfield already, 30 minute frequency.

So why bother, Im sure most people would be happier with a bus running every 15 minutes to darra.

[somebody]

Have a look at the timetable for Richlands.  It is set up for Springfield already, 30 minute frequency.

Don't you need to know how long it will take to reach Richlands for that?

FWIW, the poll I linked above shows a clear majority of members support full time express to Ipswich over 20 minute frequency there.

[#Metro]

So here is what I am thinking - it is just a suggestion:

* Personally I think 20 minutes everywhere is not really great. I think of it as like 'half a BUZ' everywhere. Too thin.

* Outside Ferny Grove and Ipswich, no frequency improvements to the rest of the network (frequency must be concentrated to actually work for patronage goals- if it is too dilute to make a difference, what is the point? Welfare/coverage?)

* Ideally 4tph to Richlands, all stops to the city. This would allow 4 trains an hour to Ipswich, all express.

HOWEVER, BARRING THIS, if it does not work:

* 4 trains per hour to Ipswich stopping all stations, 2 trains per hour stopping all stations to Darra (at least we get a metro in the inner city section)

Clock pattern

Start

00 Ipswich and Rosewood - All stations
08 Richlands Train
15 Ipswich - All Stations
30 Ipswich - and Rosewood - All stations
38 Richlands Train
45 Ipswich - All Stations

Repeat

In the future, when funding becomes available, two extra richlands trains can be slotted in, which will then allow all Ipswich trains
to run express like this:

Start

00 Ipswich and Rosewood - EXPRESS
08 Richlands Train - All Stations
15 Ipswich EXPRESS
23 Richlands Train
30 Ipswich and Rosewood - EXPRESS
38 Richlands Train - All Stations
45 Ipswich - EXPRESS
53 Richlands Train - All Stations

Repeat

[ozbob]

Have a look at the timetable for Richlands.  It is set up for Springfield already, 30 minute frequency.

Don't you need to know how long it will take to reach Richlands for that?

FWIW, the poll I linked above shows a clear majority of members support full time express to Ipswich over 20 minute frequency there.

No, the trains wait at Richlands.  They run out towards Ellen Grove, come back.  I also checked that at the last CRG with the QR timetablers and they confirmed that it is set for Springfield

Re the poll, says nothing other than 8 prefer full time expresses, says nothing about frequency.

Anyway, it will be the Ipswich line commuters who decide what they want.  It matters little what we think.  My guess is there will be no change in frequency for the next 10 years or so at least.  Heck the last change took 15 years.

[ozbob]

" Mr Scales said Translink's focus was to provide higher frequency bus services to feed the rail services. "

I suppose the benefit of that is at least there is a greater chance that you might actually make a connection to the poor rail frequency, and vice versa.  If the buses are a little more frequent it might mean one does not have to wait for nearly an hour for the next bus due the late running rail service.  Maybe just 30 minutes?   

[somebody]

What I meant is that you would need to know the time for Richlands-Springfield-Richlands to prognosticate if the timetable is designed with this in mind.  But since they have said that it is, then that is presumably true.

[petey3801]

What I meant is that you would need to know the time for Richlands-Springfield-Richlands to prognosticate if the timetable is designed with this in mind.  But since they have said that it is, then that is presumably true.

There is currently a 33min dwell at Richlands (off-peak). Unless there is a massive speed restriction between Richlands and Springfield, it should fit in quite well (car takes around 8-10mins on the highway from adjacent to Richlands station to adjacent to Springfield Central station, including the 60km/h section through the Logan/Centenary Interchange).

[Golliwog]

Was Campbell Newman properly briefed?

(cryptic, but if you are observing the news you will get the drift ...)

Their policy commitments are worthless.

"He wasn't properly briefed" is up there with Tony Abbott's "Gospel Truth" interview. Absolute political garbage.

Anyway, on topic: I certainly think we should keep fighting for the frequency to be spread around, or the span increased. Having pax figures by time of day would be helpful, but IMO it's important to keep it out there in the media. I don't think we should compromise down to arguing for 20 minute frequency. We shouldn't be compromising what we're fighting for to suit them. A 4tph service is a perfectly reasonable service frequency to expect on our lines so I don't see why we should be arguing for anything less.

[#Metro]

"He wasn't properly briefed" is up there with Tony Abbott's "Gospel Truth" interview. Absolute political garbage.

Many politicians are liars and con artists. They also have major problems with being 'wrong' - look at all the spin TransLink sent us trying to make the 340 look like it was 'supposed' to go to wooloongabba and in order to detract from the obvious problem - Cultural Centre was at capacity and full. Or the nonsense that the ALP came up when the LNP scooped them on Ferny Grove high frequency. What's new? It comes with the territory. Mistake with politicians is that we listen to them. STOP LISTENING!! Look at their actions - it tells you everything to know, and you can cut through the BS and spin within 2 seconds this way. If they're not funding upgrades to frequency for the rest of the network, it's probably because it was an election CON which they knew about all along. Same with 2000 express buses on legacy way CON. Maroon CityGlider CON. And so forth.

Bait and switch manoeuvrings people!

Anyway, on topic: I certainly think we should keep fighting for the frequency to be spread around, or the span increased. Having pax figures by time of day would be helpful, but IMO it's important to keep it out there in the media. I don't think we should compromise down to arguing for 20 minute frequency. We shouldn't be compromising what we're fighting for to suit them. A 4tph service is a perfectly reasonable service frequency to expect on our lines so I don't see why we should be arguing for anything less.

I agree with Golliwog. 20 minute frequency network-wide is RUBBISH. Frequency must be concentrated for it to induce patronage - 20 minute service comes with none of the frequency benefits (15 minutes is the upper limit) but all of the costs - bum deal! I'd rather select one of two lines and give them high frequency and span and leave the rest. Not possible to please everyone, but this at least has SOME impact.