Demand management using targeted off-peak discounts

[Golliwog]

I agree TT that I doubt shoulder peak discounts would do much, but I wouldn't take them off the table until they've been looked at. I just can't see actually increasing peak fares doing anything good for Brisbane/SEQ.

I'd actually think fixing up the spacing of services would do a lot to ease over crowding. Funnily one of the most over crowded Ferny Grove AM Peak services it the 7.04am ex FG express. Mostly because the service that precedes it leaves Ferny Grove 20 minutes prior.

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[#Metro]

You're welcome to disagree, but your solution rrt is ________ ?

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[HappyTrainGuy]

Trains aren't full but then again I mostly use morning peak and don't use arvo peak that often.

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[Gazza]

You're welcome to disagree, but your solution rrt is ________ ?

The point is, why put any effort into fare mechanisms, at all ? Why does a solution have to involve this?

Dropping the price shoulder peak wont do squat, as we have seen in Melbourne.
Increasing the price just makes people abandon PT for the roads, as we have seen here in Qld, and the extra money generated is insignificant, or does not eventuate anyway (Because less pax paying more ~ = more pax paying less)

My solutions are
-provide more services shoulder peak, and later connecting buses to encourage people not to rush out of work early for fear of long waits (Several people i worked with  drove to work in South Brisbane because evening transport was not good enough for them if they had to stay back)
-No 20 min gaps etc in peak or crap like that, as derwan said.
-Accept higher levels of crowding, and order new trains with seating like the Perth A sets.

GC line was mentioned as being unacceptable for standing, but it's not that crowded as its made out to be anyway.

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[#Metro]

-provide more services shoulder peak, and later connecting buses to encourage people not to rush out of work early for fear of long waits (Several people i worked with  drove to work in South Brisbane because evening transport was not good enough for them if they had to stay back)
-No 20 min gaps etc in peak or cr%p like that, as derwan said.
-Accept higher levels of crowding, and order new trains with seating like the Perth A sets.

I agree with this. I just don't think playing with fares is going to do much because people MUST be at work on time. Being consistently late can lead to pay docking (has happened to me) or sacking. Some employers insist on drivers licences (reliable means of own transport) and others have rules like you can't be at work earlier than half an hour before starting.

I will concede that the LNP has ruled out fare rises above the 7.5% increases, but that doesn't leave us with many demand control levers.

GC line was mentioned as being unacceptable for standing, but it's not that crowded as its made out to be anyway.

I agree with this, but it is a long line and standing all the way is very uncomfortable. Some people bring their own chairs. Might not be crowded now but may well be in the future.

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[Arnz]

From my last experience riding on the GC express in peak, most standees on the GC train empty out by Beenleigh (or Loganlea for the few peak trains that stop there). 

Past Beenleigh from what I've experienced the last trip I've taken down there is that the train still had a fully seated load, but a few backward facing seats available (some people still decide to stand despite the backward facing seats, as every line experiences). 

IMO it's way blown out of proportion, considering some Caboolture trains (including the few that are nicknamed the 'Slow Express' that continue to Nambour) has crush loads up till Narangba (as been documented by HTG and FF iirc).  Sure some GC trains have crush loads to/from Beenleigh, but that is to be expected (IMO the peak GC trains need more stops on the outer Beenleigh line to maximise the dual track capacity between Kuraby and Beenleigh).

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[Fares_Fair]

From my last experience riding on the GC express in peak, most standees on the GC train empty out by Beenleigh (or Loganlea for the few peak trains that stop there). 

Past Beenleigh from what I've experienced the last trip I've taken down there is that the train still had a fully seated load, but a few backward facing seats available (some people still decide to stand despite the backward facing seats, as every line experiences). 

IMO it's way blown out of proportion, considering some Caboolture trains (including the few that are nicknamed the 'Slow Express' that continue to Nambour) has crush loads up till Narangba (as been documented by HTG and FF iirc).  Sure some GC trains have crush loads to/from Beenleigh, but that is to be expected (IMO the peak GC trains need more stops on the outer Beenleigh line to maximise the dual track capacity between Kuraby and Beenleigh).

Standees up until Caboolture tonight, but most commonly to Burpengary from my experience.

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[#Metro]

Advertise each peak service train capacity, when and where are they full and how much. As others have just said, some are only at crush load for short sections. Survey's and Go-card.

I like this idea and I think V/Line, from memory if I am correct - does something like this.

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[Fares_Fair]

IIRC, that is one of the points mentioned for implementation in the recent rail audit citing CRR Mark II, real time information so pax can avoid crowded services.

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[Golliwog]

If you're going to play with fares, all I think should really be done is targetted changes to when 'peak' fares apply. Have off-peak before the AM peak, and start sooner at the end of it. Same deal for the PM peak. I don't think it's worth having a different discount level to just peak and off peak.

But as was pretty well know prior to the CRR review, to maximise capacity you can:

• Increase standing room
• Redo the timetables so they're 'even' and don't have clashing run patterns
• Imrpove the signalling system so more trains can be run
• Provide information on typical crowding levels on trains so people can aim for less crowded services

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[ozbob]

Discussion from go card fares.

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[ozbob]

Discussion on ' Demand management using targeted off-peak discounts to encourage passengers shift to the off-peak and shoulder peak services '.
 

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[wbj]

Standees up until Caboolture tonight, but most commonly to Burpengary from my experience.

Which service?

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[ozbob]

Media release 30th June 2012

SEQ: Off peak fare discounts

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has welcomed the announcement by the Minister for Transport and Main Roads that targeting of off peak discounts is to be tried to increase the use of shoulder peak services (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"In order to improve shoulder peak usage, the duration of the peak should be reduced.  Touch ons after 8:30am, before 4pm and after 6pm should be considered as off peak.  It is not like a peak intensive service is provided at these times anyway, so charging at an off peak rate is completely fair."

"RAIL Back On Track members believe that the appropriate level of discount is 30%.  This is the discount which CityRail in Sydney provides to off peak full fare users (2).  Adelaide metro provide approximately 45% discount to users during inter-peak times between 9am to 3pm (3)."

"Consideration should also be given to changing the present 2am off peak time limit to a more realistic time, say 7am to further drive shoulder peak usage (4). This would be best as a touch-off time point but we are unsure as to the capability of the go card system to handle touch-off time points for off peak fare implementation."

"The current fares are reducing off peak usage, as even the previous Transport Minister admitted (5)."

"Off peak services are cheaper to provide so it is reasonable that they have lower fares."

References:

1. http://www.scottemerson.com.au/media-releases/panel-delivers-rail-capacity-options.html

2. http://www.cityrail.info/tickets/which/mytrain

3. http://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/ticketing/fares

4. http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/fares/off-peak-times

5. http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/commuters-desert-city-buses-according-to-brisbane-city-council-figures/story-fnbwrpfi-1226295364186

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

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